ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello Everyone,
I am new to this site but own a few B&O products.
My new purchase, a Beogram 1202, came with the usual problem associated with dried up grease.
The motor has been disassembled cleaned and greased so speed is up to specs again, the idler assembly has also been cleaned and re-lubed Whilst I have in the past noticed some play in the tonearm bearings of my other Beagrams, this one seems to have an ureasonable amount of movement in the horizontal bearings.
I have had a look at the tonearm in situ but cannot figure out how to tighten up the bearings, is it even possible?
Thanks in advance for any advice on this matter.
Cheers,
Victor.
The 1202 arm is different from newer models, check here, because of the balls for the anti skating system a bigger play is needed.
And welcome to the forum
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Hello,
Gracias, Soren, for the welcome and the link to your work.
I asked about the play in the tonearm as I already own two 1202s and a 1200, the play on this one seems more.
Your instructions on disassembling the tonearm is very useful, thanks for that.
I shall have to take the arm apart and take care with the little balls you mentioned.
Hoarder:I shall have to take the arm apart and take care with the little balls you mentioned.
Tell us about it, and we love pics
Yes, Soren, I will have a look at your work again before taking the arm apart then post some photos.
Do you still have the 1202 you serviced and is the play in the tonearm's horizontal bearings a couple of mm?
In all honesty I would rather not take the arm apart if unecessary, the thought of tiny balls getting lost worries me a bit! I have had experiences, when taking tonearms apart, which still give me anxiety. Especially Rega arms!
You are much braver than me, if I can avoid taking things completely apart I will.
Hoarder:Do you still have the 1202 you serviced and is the play in the tonearm's horizontal bearings a couple of mm?
Well, you will have to desolder the tonearm wires. After you take of the tonearm, put a finger below the shaft when you take of the E-clip, then use a magnet to get the balls out, then take out the whole shaft. Make sure that all parts are there, check my pics, if something is missing it may cause too much lateral play.
Thanks for the photo, Soren.
When I hold the turret,and move it, the play is around 3mm. Tomorrow I shall have to have a better look at it, but perhaps the ball bearings may be missing!
Strange, though, as the deck does not seem to have been messed around with at all. I shall also take my other 1202s from the spare room and check the play on their tonearms.If all fails I will think about swapping the tonearm with a Beogram 1203 I have laying around.
Soren, are you around? I have, more or less, got everything working on the 1202. Plugged into my amp and the sound is surprisingly good, some small issues still,though!
When I move the selector switch on the ON setting, the motor will not turn. I have, I think, worked out that the issue arises from the switch located just behind the motor.
The switch, covered by a small piece of see through plastic, seems not to be in the right position. Is as if the small assembly has for some reason a small amount of play.
When the selector is on the ON position, the switch does not get activated, it can be moved by hand which allows the switch to click on.
I cannot see how to adjust the switch in a positin which would solve this problem, other than moving it by hand.
Any suggestions?
Wil come back in 15, let me think a little, the 1202 is packed away.
Back again,
Check the arm connection to the speed selector, and arm end for wear, check that the switch is ok, if all ok carefully bend the switch operating arm.
Hi Soren,
Thanks for your prompt reply and advice.
The switch assembly actually moves, in the current position the arm will not reach it to engage the switch. I can turn the assembly by hand, this moves the switch closer to the arm and allows it to engage.
Problem is that the assembly moves out of place as soon as I let go of it. I am thinking that, perhaps, there is a fixing screw which can only be accessed by removing the top plate. Maybe this has come loose and allowed the assembly to move?
I would rather not remove the top plate, but maybe that is the only way to secure the switch's assembly.
Thank again, my friend.
Cheers from London,
Check if the tiny flat stel spring plate has gone astray.It's job is to flip the center pole from side to side in the switch and hold it.
Martin
Cheers martin, I have checked the wee metal spring, all is good.
Thanks to Soren the 1202 is now fully working!
The switch's metal contacts were bent half a mm out of place, I have just followed Soren's instructions and the selector is now working as it should!
Gracias Soren for taking the time to go into full details, it has helped immensely and is greatly appreciated.
I now know a bit more about the workings of the 1202.
Thanks again.
What I particularly like about the older things is that you can actually do repairs.You can take things apart, inspect, repair, clean, adjust, lubricate or whatever.You can replace most discrete components and mechanical parts and in the majorityof cases you will come a long way with what is already in there - as you just did.Isn't it wonderful ?
The newer things, well, you can open them and look inside and maybe you can figure outwhich module is bad but if that particular module is no longer available, there's nothingyou can do but put the thing back together again, sit and look at it and wish it was still the good old days.
Yes Martin, you are absolutely right. Nothing more satisfying than bringing a vintage deck abandoned in a shed or loft back to life!
I have a huge collection of vintage turntables, over fifty, many of those vicims of dried up grease, but mostly much more simple that B&Os.
Whilst I am fairly good with mechanics, electronics have always been a bit of a mystery to me. I collect Thorens and Lenco decks but have a few Garrards and some other bits and pieces.
I tend to stay away from Direct Drives and compicated electronic machines, so far B&Os are the only exceptions to the rule.
Soren appears to be extremely comfortable taking the whole deck apart, I clean and lubricate as I go along and only dismantle if strictly necessary.
Forums like this one allow all of us to share tips and offer advice. Invaluable source of information that would otherwise only be in the hands of experienced and expensive technicians.
Dillen:The newer things, well, you can open them and look inside and maybe you can figure outwhich module is bad but if that particular module is no longer available, there's nothingyou can do but put the thing back together again, sit and look at it and wish it was still the good old days.
Well, Martin we comes from a today forgotten education line, first we learned cleanliness, then our master mechanic or master electrician taught to use the tools and measuring, They also taught us to think on our feet and be proud of what we were doing. We went to Technical schools where we learned theory, you as a radio technician or electrician, me as workshop mechanic, We got over 4 years as appendices, a solid base to stay on, the first years working as technicians we used that base and the theory frequently, later on we followed the development in each our line to stay actualized, And today we are known as the funny guys, that, if we cant get a spare part, we sh1t one.
Today these educations are long forgotten, today so called, or meant to be, mechanics, are spare part changers they don't know what they are doing and they don't know why they do it.
I can go on and on about this, industrial revolution, DIN norm, Thread norms, SAE norms, all forgotten, let everybody make their own, from outsiders not readable, software, and lets make good money, selling PCBs and Motherboards that cost dimes to make. This not only in the mechanical industry but everywhere possible, Standards, forget it.
Shoes for the the industry comrade, but give these shoes something to stay on.
I know I'm rambling and crying and letting steam off, but it had to come out. I feel sorry for the young ones educated today.
Hoarder:Soren appears to be extremely comfortable taking the whole deck apart, I clean and lubricate as I go along and only dismantle if strictly necessary.
Sometimes I take perfectly working mechanics apart, just to know why they are working (my wife don't like that), I love mechanics, and B&O has some very ingenious solutions.
With 50 TTs you have something to work on
Soren, you seem to be in a nostalgic mood! Everything you say is of course completely right, add to it cheap imports from the East and the whole thing is just depressing.
I am not that old, but I remember a time when electronics were expensive, one would buy a TV or HiFi component and make it last a lifetime.
Nowadays folk buy electronics which are lucky to last a year, chuck them in the bin and buy another load of rubbish.Here in the UK there used to be a thriving industry of well engineered and well made goods, all we have now is unemployement and cheap imports.
Folk have been fooled into buying "affordable" goods, when this became the norm quality went out of the window.
It may sound like the usual " good old days" moan but the reality is staring us all in the face, my collection of turntables does not include anything modern as modern is widely accepted to be far from good. Unless of course one is willing to spend a couple of thousand to taste quality.
I studied mechanical engineering in Italy, dropped out after a year as it was as hard and as long as getting a medical degree! One thing I truly regret.
Thanks again for helping me out with the 1202, by the way.
Hoarder: It may sound like the usual " good old days" moan but the reality is staring us all in the face, my collection of turntables does not include anything modern as modern is widely accepted to be far from good. Unless of course one is willing to spend a couple of thousand to taste quality. I studied mechanical engineering in Italy, dropped out after a year as it was as hard and as long as getting a medical degree! One thing I truly regret. Thanks again for helping me out with the 1202, by the way. Cheers,
Lets close that here, I'm not nostalgic, but angry, 100 years of standardizing for nothing, back to no education and no industrial standards.
We are glad to help here, so anything you want to know we are here for you.
I am in total agreement with you, Soren!
Ok, back to the 1202. Since all my servicing, the tonearm now drops 1 inch further in on the record than it should.
Is this adjustable by unscrewing the arm's grub srew and moving the arm back a bit?
Yes, but you will have to try it several times. Use 33 record, then the 45 should be OK if it was OK before.
Thanks Soren. Yes, it was fine before I removed the arm from the shaft.
I can imagine that it will require patience to find the exact position again, but that's life.
Off to bed now before I do some damage due to tiredness and frustration, shall report the results tomorrow.