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Hi experts,
I have connect my PC (from 3.5mm jack) to Beomaster 6500 (DIN) with 2 passive Penta speakers (which are in living room). From BM6500 I have connected with MCL cable to MCL 2AV and from there it's connected to a receiver and to two Beovox redline passive speakers (which are in bedroom).
It works if I play music from my PC to Penta speakers (in livingroom) useing the remote control panel but if I want to listen to my Beovox speakers (in bedroom) do I need to use the Beolink 1000 remote (I have that). If so how do I use it, which buttons to press ?
Thanks for all your help !
Hi and welcome to Beoworld.
Assuming that you use the right output from the BeoMaster, you should be able just to push the 'Mute' button on the ir-receiver panel for the MCL2AV, when the music is already playing.
Which input for the cable from the PC do you use? The A.Aux or the A.Tape or...?
Which button on the remote control panel do you use?
You should be able to use exact the same button (and the panel) in the linked/MCL room.
If you have a BeoLink 1000 it would be the same button.
What worries me is that you - for the bedroom setup - write: 'it's connected to a receiver'.
What do you mean by 'a receiver'?
Note: the MCL2AV will have to be setup as a MCL2A, if you are using passive speakers connected to it.
Have a look at this document (page 5-3):
http://www.vintageshifi.com/repertoire-pdf/pdf/telecharge.php?pdf=Bang-Olufsen-MCL-2-Owners-Manual.pdf
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Hi,
Thanks for welcoming !
Let me see if I can describe in detail :)
All of my speakers are PASSIVE !
1. 3.5mm jack from PC to BM 6500 (DIN) in TV/Aux.2. Speaker cables from BM 6500 (from connection Speakers 1) directly to Beolab Penta I.3. MCL Link cable (7pin i think) from BM 6500 (from connection Speakers 2 MCL) to MCL 2AV.4. Connected MCL 2AV (5pin) cable (IR transceiver)5. Speaker cables from MCL 2AV to Beovox Redline.
I have a Beolink 1000 but it does not seem to work when I press and button pointing at IR transceiver.
Question: Can I use my "BIG" remote control panel (which is for BM 6500) to start the IR transceiver in the bedroom ? or do I have to have a Beolink 1000 ?
I am not sure which button to press on my remote control panel.
Let me know if you want to see pic of my setup !
Thanks !
Are you sure, you have an MCL2 AVconnected? MCL2-AVs don`t have speaker outputs, just Powelink - for active Speakers/Beolabs...
In your first post you wrote, that there is receiver connected to MCL2 AV. In your second post the speakers are connected to the MCL2 AV...(?)
If you have an MCL2 (with IR transceiver) - select a video source (TV, V.TAPE...) to open the AUX port of your BM6500. THE MCL2 must be set to L.OT 2.
If it`s an MCL2-AV it should also be in L.OPT 2. Select a video sorece or try LINK A.AUX (there is a local source called A.AUX, if I remember correctly...
Stefan
stefan: Are you sure, you have an MCL2 AVconnected? MCL2-AVs don`t have speaker outputs, just Powelink - for active Speakers/Beolabs...
It seems that some (early?) MCL2AVs do have passive speaker outputs, look at the picture here.
I read the mention of a receiver connected to the MCL2AV, I guess you could do that by plugging a Beomaster's AUX input to the AUX socket of the MCL2AV, and that sounds like it could work.
Strange! I`ve never seen that before....
But how witt it work through pssive speaker sockets? As far as I know, there is no poweramp included, so it must use the audiomaster (6500) poweramp.
So it will work as a passive MCL 2 A.
Thanks for the info. We are learning every day...">
stefan: But how witt it work through pssive speaker sockets? As far as I know, there is no poweramp included, so it must use the audiomaster (6500) poweramp. So it will work as a passive MCL 2 A.
Yeah, it's kinda weird.
The above-linked manual says "Pre-programming of MCL2AV: Mode 1 - Passive loudspeakers may be directly connected to it and central room audio sources may be controlled. However no local sources or independant volume control are possible. In principle this mode of operation is identical to a MCL2ABLI" (page 5-2).
Sorry, I meant IR transceiver connected.
"If you have an MCL2 (with IR transceiver) - select a video source (TV, V.TAPE...) to open the AUX port of your BM6500. THE MCL2 must be set to L.OT 2."
So you are saying that I need a Beolink 1000 in order to open the AUX port on my MCL 2AV ? I cannot make it work with my master remote panel in both rooms ?What is L.OT2 and where to find it ?
Yes, I have an old MVL 2AV which Lausvi mentioned above.
If you are indeed using passive speakers connected to the MCL2AV, then (as I quoted above) the link room's local sources (ie. the inputs on the MCL2AV box) won't be available.
When the main room is playing (any source), pressing the MUTE button (right-side of the IR transceiver) should make the link room start playing the same source.
And yes, the MCP remote should work on both rooms.
I just had a look on my old (!) MCL2AV - had to search for it ;-)
Indeed it - as stefan writes - has only PowerLink outputs.
However I mean to recall from way back then, that a MCL2AV could be used as a MCL2A (requiring reprogramming of the unit).
By the way - the linked document was the first hit from a quick Google search, I did - I did not know of that specific one before.
It seems that there have been different versions of the 2AV - making it even more complicated to give an advice.
@sonu1975
Could you post a picture of your (!) 2AV box, please?
As for opening the port in the linkroom, you should be able to use exact the same command as in the main room!
Tip! If you are not using the A.Tape input om the BeoMaster, try to plug the 'PC-cable' into that instead of into the Aux/tv port.
Sorry I didn't quite understand what you mean by"If you are indeed using passive speakers connected to the MCL2AV, then (as I quoted above) the link room's local sources (ie. the inputs on the MCL2AV box) won't be available."
What sources are you referring to which won't be available ?
The three DIN-connectors on the face of the MCL2AV: TAPE, CD, TV. Meaning that in the link room, you can only listen to the sources connected to the main room's BM6500.
@Millemissen
See attached pic on my 2AV box and how I have connected from it and via BM 6500
Behind BM 6500: Left 2 cables are going to my Penta I (passive) speakers. Right 2 cable going to 2AV box. Cable from PC connected into Tape 1 DIN connection.
When I use my IR in other room with my master control panel what command should I use to make it work ?
@lausvi
Since I will be playing music via my PC I just want to be able to cut of the sound from my speakers in the main room and listen in the other room via Link (IR transceiver) and vice versa. I have no need to connectany other sources (Tape, CD, Phono) to the AV box. But as I mentioned above I cannot make it switch to other speakers (bed room) instead the speakers in the mail room are working.
Seems that I cannot upload any pic :(
sonu1975: Seems that I cannot upload any pic :(
Are you posting from a PC/Mac?
Or from the Beoworld app?
Does your (!) box look like the one, you see here:
http://www.tradera.com/item/1708/266920936/bang-olufsen-mcl-2av-link-i-fint-skick-
Posting from a PC.
Yes thats whats's my 2AV look like from the front.
Link posted by Lausvi for 2AV front and back: http://www.quality-dream-audio.co.uk/beolink/14020764.html
Link posted by Lausvi: http://www.quality-dream-audio.co.uk/beolink/14020764.html
That means, that you actually have a version with outputs for passive speakers (2 x 4-pin plugs)?
A not very common version (where are you located/from where did you get the unit.).
Another beoworlder - who sometimes writes here - Rudi Petersen, worked at B&O at the time, when the MCL was 'the hot stuff' - maybe he would know more?
Please do (!) read the document, that I have already linked to - especially the part about the programming of the MCL2AV (page 5-2 and 5-3).
I am located in Sweden and this unit with other B&O stuff (TV, VCR, Beosystem 6500) was bought by my father in 1987.
I am using 2x2pin plugs DIN for my Beovox Redline speakers.
I read your doc on programming but for that I would need a Beolink 1000 ? I have one but it does not seem to work :(Any way I can test it to see if it works ?
Thansk, I'll try to see if I can find Rudi guy.
I can help you here as well, as I sent you a post by mail before Christmas explaining how to set this up.
As Millemissen says, I was at B&O at that time, as I was the electronic designer making MCL2AV.
Actually, you do not need an Beolink 1000, but this will help a lot. When the system is running, then you can press the Mute bottom on the receiver and this will start the system, but switching source and volume is not possible etc. So, find a used BL 1000 for very few SEK.
Read the mail I sent to you...
Is the system now running ??
I can clarify these questions, as I did the electronic for MCL2AV. This is many years ago, so writing this is like finding an old tape backup with data ;-)
The first version was equipped with both an MCL 2A and the new MCL2AV, as sales had the idea that people had to use this in some cases. As more and more installations were with MCL2AV, someone figured out how to save cost during production and removed the components for MCL2A. I can not remember, but I guess if you open up the product, you will see some freespace on the circuit board, as changing the board would too expensive.
When I close my eyes - I can still se the circuit diagram in front of me ;-)
Best regards Rudi
Thanks Rudi,
I knew you would ;-)
Dom
2x BeoSystem 3, BeoSystem 5000, BeoSystem 6500, 2x BeoMaster 7000, 2 pair of BeoLab Penta mk2, AV 7000, Beolab 4000, BeoSound 4000, Playmaker, BeoLab 2500, S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-50, C-75, 3x CX-100, 3x MCL2 link rooms, 3x Beolab 2000, M3, P2, Earset, A8 earphones, A3, 2x 4001 relay, H3, H3 ANC, H6, 2014 Audi S5 with B&O sound, and ambio
Hi Rudi,
Yes i did set up as you mentioned but still it didnt work.I tried to press the mute on the IR transceiver to see if I could get the sound in the second room (without the amp) but couldn't get the sound to my passive speakers. Only the ones in the main room (where the amp is) was working.
Now I have left my Link system to a B&O service to see if the link is really working.
Wil let you know how it went and yes as you said it's easier to have a BL1000.
By the way - there are a lot of tips and informations to be harvested on the forum - especially on the old forum - on these vintage, but still working, setups.
Just do a quick google search, and you will see - here is an example:
Have fun ;-)
Rudi Pedersen: I can clarify these questions, as I did the electronic for MCL2AV.
I can clarify these questions, as I did the electronic for MCL2AV.
Hi Rudi!
It's cool to have original designer of the piece in question joining in the discussion. I think the MCL2AV is a cool piece of kit, I only recently got one and have only tested it.
From the old forums I read several mentions that the MCL2AV is somewhat noisy. Which I guess is understandable as it goes from speaker level to line and allows volume control between. I tested my only shortly and I think it was indeed a bit noisy. Can you elaborate on the design of the MCL2AV and how it came to be?
Now that I think about it, a kit to convert the later MCL2AV to the early one with speakerlink outputs might be pretty cool!
Hi
It is very impressive to see that people are still using a MCL2AV - mine are gone long time ago...today I have all rooms with Essence.
When the equipment was designed - and this is probably valid for all developers - a question comes up as to how long time the unit should be able to work without any failure - also called MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures). I remember this to be 10 years. It think it was in 1987 or 1988 I worked with this, so there is no doubt about my calculations were not very good, as this equipment is still running ;-) Maybe it was ok I created this too good.
At that time the MCl2A was the best solution on the marked, but this is/was just a copy of the master room, so when you raised the volume in the master room, the link room went up as well - there was no individual volume control. The source was also linked directly to the master.
Starting from scratch no-one would probably make the MCL2AV the way we did, but in this case the marked was filled up with products like Beomaster 5000 and after that Beomaster 6500 etc. So, the MASTERS were out there and you have to build an add-on the can use the products already in place to secure the investment at the customer premises.
So we had to make someting that could be used with the masters already in the market. Today we have digital outputs, but at that time we had to live with the speaker output (analogue).
When you play loud from a master the signal on the speaker output is very high in terms of sinus swing. This gives a big gab between the masters noice itself (noice from the electronic) and the output signal, also called Signal to Noice ratio (SNR). There you will not feel any problem with noice. But when the Master (in the main room) plays very quiet the SNR is not as good as the first case. Then noice dominate more. This is one part of the noice you will be able to hear.
If you want to play relative load in the link room and quiet in the master room, you need to amplify the input signal from the master room and then you add more noice to the end result.So, you are born into a problem from the beginning, that you need to accept.
Secondly, the link room need to lower the amplitude from the master if the master plays loud and amplify in case it plays quiet. The means we need to have an attenuator (in terms of simple component as resistor grids). In the MCL2AV this is done by electronic switches controlled by the microprocessor and again control by the data signal from the master (the white wire in the 7 wire cable).
Today we have better electronic component than back in 1987, so the problem that I will talk about could be avoid today. There was also a cost target issue - as in all cases in development - to reach, meaning we had to bring down cost.
This ended up having some component that are relativ noisy when the volume is changing, as the clicks comes from the attenuation done by the switches.
We did many test for internal people to judge if the clicks were ok or not. We knew they were there but decided to accept this. Well, the CD's was new to the marked but turntables and vinyl were more common with a lot of noice - (it seems like turntables are coming back again - but not for me).So, you will hear the clicks when you change volume.
Finally, this product - MCL2AV - was developed nearly 30 years ago with the technology level at that time. I am actually proud to see people are still using this - so at the end this is not too bad, then ;-)
Rudi Pedersen:Finally, this product - MCL2AV - was developed nearly 30 years ago with the technology level at that time. I am actually proud to see people are still using this - so at the end this is not too bad, then ;-)
Thanks for your insights, Rudi - it is very interesting to hear from actual product designers! Marketing talk we can always find in old brochures
Today, who could design something of even this complexity, and predict that it would still be used in 2047?
--mika
Dear Rudi, great to hear from The Creator! I "discovered" the MCL system some 4 years ago and currently have all the rooms in my house connected to my BM5500 via either MCL2A or MCL2a/v. I am constantly testing the limits of the system I think, integration with newer products, testing out different configurations. I have a LOT of fun figuring out what is possible and the best thing about it I think is the fact that the system is 30 years old. The video options and link room capabilities from MCL system are outdated in this HD era, but the music options still compete easily with modern integrated music systems. Every morning I start a cd from from my bedroom that sits in the DVD tray of my 2006 BV7. And every time I am happy that the system works so well! (On a side note: It is also much more reliable than my new playmaker in combination with my iPhone, just because if I pause the music for more than 3 minutes, the airplay is disconnected - because it is designed this way. It always needs some additional steps with newer systems, or you need to pull out the smartphone, while the old equipment just works with a press of a button.)
The only reason I might upgrade to a newer system would be the noise in the link rooms, when quietly listening to main-room sources.
Rudi Pedersen:Today we have better electronic component than back in 1987, so the problem that I will talk about could be avoid today.
I am not at all an expert in electronics, so forgive my ignorance, but would it be possible to exchange a few components in the MCL2a/v to reduce the noise? Just a thought! Or did you mean by this comment that if you would completely redesign it today it will be better at managing the noise, but not just by exchanging some components with modern ones?
Thanks again for your work 30 years ago :-)
Beosound 5 Encore + Beosystem 5500 + S45.2; BV7-40 MKV + BL7.1 + BL14.4+ AppleTV4; various link rooms with MCL2 A or MCL2 A/V + RL60.2 / CX100 / CX50 & Cona / IWS2000; BG4000; Beosystem 1200 + BV1600.
I am glad to hear that you are using the MCL2Av still and enjoy the product.
Changing components to todays way of doing electronic is not possible with a total re-construction.
But, I am sure after so many years, some of the components are burned out - special the capacitors can not, after so many years, be active in the right way. This will probably make more noise in the sound than from the start.
So, if you can or have a friend to assist you, then you can replace the capacitors all over - but again this is a major job to do.
You are right that todays products like Essence, iPhone, iPad etc are not easy and fast to use, as everything is on battery and not ready within seconds to press. I still use remote fra B&O for easy access.
It toke me some time as well to change behaviors but after some years you get used to it. ;-)
Good luck with the MCL's
BR Rudi
Rudi Pedersen: Changing components to todays way of doing electronic is not possible with a total re-construction. But, I am sure after so many years, some of the components are burned out - special the capacitors can not, after so many years, be active in the right way. This will probably make more noise in the sound than from the start. So, if you can or have a friend to assist you, then you can replace the capacitors all over - but again this is a major job to do.
Yeah, there probably won't be any drop-in replacements that would easily enhance it drastically. The big IC just next to the Powerlink outputs is a Toshiba TC9177P volume control, which could be a good place to start, but I couldn't find anything directly replaceable.
Complete re-cap might be a the best bet (not sure if it would dramatically lower noise, though), surely somebody crazy enough will try that eventually...
Yes, I have the parts and might do it eventually... I'll post the list of caps here when I have verified it. This is the early MCL2AV with SpeakerLink outputs and the TV-coax distribution box, also the third input is not TV as in later units, but AUX. I have another MCL2AV (later model) to which I could compare the effect of re-cap...
D'oh, I hadn't realized that there are several SMD components on the bottom side of the board, I had thought this was one-sided (and wondered how it looked so sparsely populated!). Couple of op-amps there and surely some of these could be types with modern compatible parts.
I did recap mine. None of the orig. caps were anywhere near bad, and on my quick testing I couldn't hear any considerable difference so probably it wasn't really worth the effort.... But now it should last another 30 years More evidence that Rudi and his team used way too good components as they still haven't failed!
I have aquired original Master Control Link service manual from eBay. It has PCB drawings, parts lists and schematics for MCL2A, MCL2AV, MCL2P and MCL2 Expander and the Transceiver. It does reveal some interesting facts like that the MCL2AV has test points for RAM and ROM testing, and in the schematics there are two jumper links marked "OPT. TV" and "OPTION 5/6". A must-read for all MCL-tweakers! I have sent PDF versions to be added to Beoworld manuals (along with Accessories 1 manual), so it should be there eventually.