ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
The BM 4400 arrived August 15 2012 at 11:45 PM
1st problem the Treble slider
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Another great Master to your lifestyle collection !
Congratulations - it looks good!
I have a spare pointer glass in a "Treble" bracket if you are interested
Vinyl records, cassettes, open reel, valve amplifiers and film photography.
Søren Hammer: Congratulations - it looks good! I have a spare pointer glass in a "Treble" bracket if you are interested
Thats just amazing Søren, how much, and send to my sister in Horsens
On the pic I saw before I bought it, I could see the aluminum piece with Treble written on it, so it would be easy to make a new plexi part and glue it, but the text piece must have gotten lost by packing or unpacking. It came in a big flat screen box, very good packed, but to get it into the car trunk, my son had to take it out of the box, and maybe it got lost there.
I will PM you the address, please tell me the price and shipping cost.
Here the Bay pic
Here are the pictures of it
Started the restore, first thing is the serial number, if you dont post this someone will ask for it
Then bottom and top cover of, here the bottom cover, very dirty, and looks like someone tried to spray some cleaner or such into it, to no avail.
Bottom and top of, here inside bottom view, looks OK. No signs of repairs.
Top inside, dirty dirty dirty, and someone did something to the output transistors, seeing this I decided not to plug it in for test, before its clean and the ugly red caps has been changed
Went to the front and checked all the switches, all working but with delay or slow, but a good cleaning and lub will help
Started taking the thing apart, missing a screw here and there, some screws loose, someone was in here before me.
Got a look on the sliding poties, never seen anything that dirty, in any of my BMs
Got it apart, and now onto the cleaning and change of caps, will check the presets as well.
Will be a big job getting all that in again
More to come tomorrow or in the weekend.
Wow Søren! I'm glad I didn't have to dismantle mine completely!
I did that on my Beocenter 3500, phew, what a job it was... but entirely worth it of course
I wish you the best of luck, and don't hesitate asking!
Pity about Jeff by the way... Maybe this thread will cheer him up and give him the guts to fix his. Personally, I'd sue.
Jacques
Wonderful thread as usual from you. I'd wish, I could find the drive to do some resto threads again myself.But oh boy, that frontpanel can take hours to fit and align.Was it absolutely necessary to dismount it, what was the problem ?
The "wet" area on the bottom plate is around the signal level trimmers. It's very common to find thesesoaked in contact cleaner (or sometimes even the dreadful WD40 or some other nasty stuff) from anowner or repairshop, desperate to get a little more life out of the oxidized trimmers.
Martin
Dillen: But oh boy, that frontpanel can take hours to fit and align.
But oh boy, that frontpanel can take hours to fit and align.
Oh yes, don't do it with children around! Get a few hours' rest before doing it...
Do you think you could post higher res pictures Søren?
chartz: Do you think you could post higher res pictures Søren?
They would show drops of blood, sweat and Cuba.
@ Martin: We,in the Vintage forum, are all waiting for your interesting and educating threads, I really hope you get the spirit again, I know you dont like the new forum, but there are workarounds and after getting used to these, its just as fast as before, Keith got read of the timeouts, lets hope he is working on a solution for the pic files.
@ Jacques: Will post higher def. pics, but as dirty as it was you couldn't see anything anyway, and this size is faster to work with.
As for the front panel, the main reason to take it all apart was what you see in the pic, I allso wanted to get in to clean and lub the switch mec. On my 4000 I did the same, it is a PIB work but the result is satisfying.
Here goes, take a good look at the item between the pins of the Tip 146
Yes this one, and its a B&O screw, how it got in there is a mystery, I had to pry the pins apart to get it out, I am glad I didn't connect the BM before starting, but a funny feeling and a ticking in my left eyelid told me not to, repairing printing machines for many years I learned to listen to this feeling, be careful now, go slow, check everything and start thinking
Thats a screw for the slider bar, the 2 middle screws were missing, Because of the angled front, its difficult to get at the screws (90 degree angle screwdriver needed), as I also found screws not tightened I decided to take it all apart.
Another follower here!
Good job and good luck!
Been cleaning for 3 hours now, the whole house stinks of ISP alcohol, I like alcohol, but not this one.
One Question: The El parts list shows the lamps as 6V 80 Mamps, but in the drawings I see 15V coming to them, I still have lamps for BM 901, 2400 and 4000, can I use any of these ?
Jacques: 1st pic is 1000 pix. wide, 2nd is 750, 3rd is again 1000, which one is good for you
Just to show you what I'm up against, The output PCB
Check the trimmers, all of them turned up to maximum, I will get some adjustment to do, when done.
And here the slider potis, The dirtiest one is the Bass, someone went havoc with cleaner or WD40
Søren, 6V is correct for the lamps.Oh, and thanks for the comment higher up.
That's very dirty!
I think I also have a pair of intact lamps and the screws you are missing in my donor unit - will check up on it this weekend
Søren Hammer: That's very dirty!
Former owner was a smoker?
There are very little smoker signs, sticky stuff all over, I'm a heavy smoker myself, so I know it. I think this unit was stored in a very dusty place for years, I've never seen a unit dirty as this before.
Maybe Martin can explain, how many units comes in as dirty as this one. I have only seen some 15-20 vintage units opened.
You guys always manage to cheer me up.
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
Hi Søren,
Color me impressed! You have no fear taking your Beomaster 4400 so completely apart.
I can’t wait to hear how things go once you get it up and running.
And once again thank you for your personal support, it means a lot!
Piaf: Color me impressed! You have no fear taking your Beomaster 4400 so completely apart.
Its no problem taking it apart, its getting it together again, but I take things apart for a living and somehow I'm lucky and always get it together and working again, but I must admit this is kind of small for me.
Now look at this, I took a perfectly clean porcelain recipient, filled in ISP alcohol and cleaned the output PCB and slide potis, I assure you the alcohol was absolutely clean when I started
The bass slider
My goodness! You really are doing quite a job! I took one of these apart when we could not find a 4401 and were going to get it anodised and see if we could fool B&O into putting it in the museum. Frede then found two real ones, so Tim put ours back together again! I don't think he cleaned it as well as yours, but it certainly was not as dirty!! I am going to take the top off mine to see what it looks like!
Peter
I am late to chime in but nice aquisition. The Beomaster 4400 is one of my favorites. I have one restored and working good and another one in my queue. Sometimes you do have to take the switch panel apart ...I had to do that on one my Beomaster 4000 units. As others have mentioned, they do take some patience and time to get back together. I think the BM 4000 took me a good two hours. With that much dirt in the unit though, I think it will be worth it knowing it will be nice and clean again. Thanks for the nice pictures.
-sonavor
Søren Mexico:Its no problem taking it apart, its getting it together again,
Agree. I've tried that many times...
I'm looking forward to the rest of the story...
I just gotta ask why did you want to take on such an obvious challenge as your Beomaster 4400?
From my own past I purchased a 1967 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham as well as a 1965 Cadillac deVille convertible to “save” them from unloving owners. However I don’t know that I would get emotionally involved sufficiently to “save” an amplifier.
In any case you certainly seem more than up to the task.
I sincerely wish you all the best! I added the cerveza because it may come in handy.
Piaf: Hi Søren, I just gotta ask why did you want to take on such an obvious challenge as your Beomaster 4400? From my own past I purchased a 1967 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham as well as a 1965 Cadillac deVille convertible to “save” them from unloving owners. However I don’t know that I would get emotionally involved sufficiently to “save” an amplifier. In any case you certainly seem more than up to the task. I sincerely wish you all the best! I added the cerveza because it may come in handy. Jeff
Some get emotionally involved in amplifiers -some in old cars. You can't explain that...That's just human.
Didn't do too much today, but cleaned the big relay and the FM presets, the relay looks very good, one time with Deoxit on paper strip and the paper strips came out clean, no signs of burning what so ever, the FM presets was another PIB, I had to soak them and clean with a small brush 4 times before I got the same Ohms all around on all of them, most have used at least one hour on it. I then went on to make a cap and preset list and check all the lamps, they are all totally clear and filaments OK, Will leave the lamps as is for now,
Question: The capacitors 5C138 and 238, 47 myF 10V are they somehow special with a fuse ability ?
Pics. take a look at the cap top in the last pic.
Hi Steffen,
Right you are.
Perhaps my passion is not quite so focused on amplifiers as it is Beograms and Beocords.
I am simply enthralled with my prized Beogram 4000, which doesn’t have the panache in Europe that it does here because it was readily available in Europe, but in North America there are no more than a handful and few of those are operational.
I am also pretty intense when it comes to my Beocord 8004 and Beocord 9000.
Perhaps if my experience with amplifiers had turned out differently I might be more enamored with amplifiers, but in the mean time I really AM especially fond of my BeoCenter 9000 which was rescued by a friend after being dumped in a recycling center.
In ANY case I wish Søren the very best with his new adventure!
The more difficult the better, I love being challenged,
I have been working on heavy printing machines since I was 20 years old, in the 80s I was traveling the world as a kind of trouble shooter, when the other technicians gave in, they send for me, today after more than 40 years everything is kind of routine, nothing new, nothing that gets my old brain on tours, some 3 years ago I bought a BM 901, I dont remember why I was surfing Ebay but I put in a bid of USD 20.00, and got it, Now I had to find out what I had done, I had B&O in 70/71, and again bought in 2000, but I had never done anything in repair way with it, found the forum again, and started reading, and when I got the 901 down here I started the repair, I made a lot of failures and learned from it, with a lot of help from the forum, a 901 need speakers, bought speakers, I had a BG 2404, played with a preamp with my Beosound 3000, connected it to the 901, played Ok but the design didn't fit, bought a BM 2400, The Virus got me and so on. See my bio for where I am now.
Today, when I get home after a bad day, I prepare myself a rum and coke, put on some Haendel, turn up the volume, sit down in the sweet spot and enjoy, not only the music, but also what these wonderful Beos are doing, when the bad vibes are gone, I go from classic to pop to rock and normaly end op with some danish music/artist.
Refurbishing a unit I forget everything around me, I relax and listen to some soft music from the radio or a LP and have a jolly good time.
Its not a hobby its a lifestyle
Søren Mexico: Question: The capacitors 5C138 and 238, 47 myF 10V are they somehow special with a fuse ability?
Question: The capacitors 5C138 and 238, 47 myF 10V are they somehow special with a fuse ability?
Always wondered that too about ROE caps
Keep up the good work Søren! TLC for an amp, and why not?
This is the inside of my 4401 (click on it and you can see the whole picture!). I was given this as a present by the wonderful Frede of Classic Audio. It works perfectly - not surprising when you see what he has done inside! A ridiculously generous present from a splendid gentleman. Any dust present comes from my three basset hounds!!
I completely understand, working on your B&O collection is an escape from the monotony of your job, a form of therapy and it is working. Plus there is an additional bonus that after you have completed the “therapy” you actually have something tangible to show for your work.
I once purchased the “worst” house in a decent neighborhood thinking that with just a little bit of work I could sell it at a profit and move on. Didn’t quite work out that way in that I’d fix one thing and twelve more would break. It was so bad that I virtually had to do the work myself, not being able to afford to have that much work done by professionals.
I repainted the house twice and like your B&O work, found that very relaxing. However what really changed things was the yard which at the time of purchase was nothing but sand, weeds, roots, wild vines, and sandspurs. That terrible yard was my therapy. I weeded and weeded until the weeds gave up. Dug out the roots, brought in top soil and planted my garden.
I surrounded the pool with hibiscus plants that made for a year-round colorful hedge, white birds of paradise to provide privacy for the all too near neighbor.
In front of the house I made for a rather English looking formal garden with boxwoods, azaleas, and roses…. and palm trees.
Everything was illuminated at night with lots of inexpensive low voltage lights. It was amazing, so much so that the height of my day was a “tour of the estate” a brief walking tour every evening of the pool area and front yard.
The neighbors just LOVED us for transforming the neighborhood eyesore into a garden showplace which was indeed featured in the local newspaper as one of the nicest gardens in the city.
I have lived in bigger houses and more expensive houses, but this is the house over my lifetime that today gives me the most sense of pride.
My therapy took me ten years, let us hope that your restoration of your Beomaster 4400 proceeds a bit faster….. and it will.
Peter: This is the inside of my 4401 (click on it and you can see the whole picture!).
This is the inside of my 4401 (click on it and you can see the whole picture!).
Almost as pretty on the inside as on the outside.
Peter: This is the inside of my 4401 (click on it and you can see the whole picture!). I was given this as a present by the wonderful Frede of Classic Audio. It works perfectly - not surprising when you see what he has done inside! A ridiculously generous present from a splendid gentleman. Any dust present comes from my three basset hounds!!
Thats just beautiful, a typical Frede item, I hope to get as near as possible to that one, at the moment I'm thinking about where to buy my parts, by Martin, everything as close to original as possible, but slow in coming, in the US, a PIB to order everything, maybe from 2 or 3 different suppliers, or locally and skip changing the big caps.
That thing was filthy Soren. mine was only moderately dusty, still sitting on my workbench in pieces. i suppose I will get amount to recapping and retrim part of it this fall. Thanks Martin for the heads up on the lamping as well, I was wondering the same thing myself.
Got a little farther today. Monday my wife started talking to me again, she wanted me to paint the living room, I didn't argue, they will never understand how important vintage B&O is. So I painted.
Cleaned the front and put it in, John is right, 2 hours, 2 cubas and some cigarettes, a magnetic screwdriver and some patience is all you need
front in and bottom screws loose
All in and adjusted, I worked all switches a lot of times
Inside
Hello Søren,
That is going to be one handsome Beomaster 4400.
Glad to hear that your wife is talking to you again. As you know, it is best to never argue with a woman, it is battle that can not be won, plus women will never, but never understand men and their “toys.”
Piaf: Hello Søren, That is going to be one handsome Beomaster 4400. Glad to hear that your wife is talking to you again. As you know, it is best to never argue with a woman, it is battle that can not be won, plus women will never, but never understand men and their “toys.” Jeff
On the diyaudio forum, it was recommended to me to point out the number of shoes my wife had as justification for that eighth set of loudspeakers.
And what good advice that was. So how many pair of shoes DOES she have? I may need to use the same ammunition myself, after this Beomaster 4400 fiasco of mine.
Hum, let me see, I have 6 amplifiers [McIntosh 2255, Beomaster 2400, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, BeoCenter 9000, and a BeoSound 2000], 6 turntables [Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, and Beogram 1602], 2 cassette players [Beocord 8004 and Beocord 9000], 2 CD players [Beogram CDX and Beogram 4500], 1 reel to reel tape recorder [Tandberg 9000], 1 8-Track recorder [Akai], 6 sets of speakers [Linn Isobaric, McIntosh ML2, B&O S45, B&O S75, B&O S75, and B&O S120.2].
If this is not bad enough I also have a Seeberg M100B jukebox.
So I think that your wife has gotten off fairly easy by comparison. I had better start counting shoes.