ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Yes, the kit is for one channel only.Do you have problems in both channels ?
Martin
Dillen: Yes, the kit is for one channel only.Do you have problems in both channels ? Martin
There was problems with both channels from the beginning, the C138 and 238 was dead upon arrival, and went dead one more time while testing, so both channels has problems, and I want to have both channels the same, I dont like one with all new and the other one old, and a time bomb.
You have a mail on Yahoo
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
I did not need a long time to think this over, Jacques and Martin convinced me, and Jacques also offered me a kit for repairing one channel, but as I wanted to repair both channels, I dont want a time bomb in the other channel. I will get from Martin 2 kits for the repair. These will be shipped to my sister in DK, I have some other items there to bring.
I just couldn't give up on this unit, but I want to say thank you to all of you for the help, and helpful remarks to keep up my spirit, coming from all over. She is now put together for storage, until parts arrive. She is a beauty.
Hello Søren,
I totally agree, she is a beauty! I am also glad you found the determination to stay with this project. It is not about the money, or more accurately the money spent, it is about achievement, which will be yours, I promise!
Further you were using good judgment in buying two kits from Martin. Doing this part by part just isn’t going to work…. as Martin already mentioned. Ditto one half the unit….. which had failure written all over it.
I rather imagine this is a bit like the time I had a new picture tube put into my ’64 RCA color television in the eighties. The original tube had really faded, so I opted for a new one.
This worked great for a day or so. With all the components in a similar stage of wear, the TV worked fine. However with the introduction of a new picture tube, the higher power demand of the new CRT took out virtually all remaining tubes.
I am not certain that my analogy follows what is happening with your Beomaster 4400, but I think it maybe close.
We are ALL waiting with great anticipation to hear what happens after you have installed Martin’s two kits.
Jeff
P. S. After seeing your Beomaster 4400 in all its glory, I think I had better use some lemon oil on mine. It doesn't make it work any better, but it sure does look beautiful, which makes me happy. Since I am on an anology kick, this is like having a car that doesn't run, yet you wash and wax it, becuase it looks a whole lot better sitting in your driveway. It still won't start, but you feel good about the situation. Now where did I put that lemon oil?
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
For sure, Sören, that’s at beauty beast. You have taken the right decision: store her until you have the right spare parts.
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http://tinyurl.com/qj9cjsf
Yes sir that Beomaster 4400 is a beauty alright. I was admiring it so much that I decided to see what mine was up to today…. and wasn’t disappointed. “The Seven Faces of Eve” with a few extras at no additional charge.
One thing is certain, although your “frame-off” restoration of the 4400 has been a genuine adventure, stimulating for all of us to read about as we share your adventure vicariously, you definitely have made the right decision to install Martin’s two kits, starting fresh and with everything evenly matched.
I look forward to virtually each and every play of my 4400 as each play is different…. as I have a schizophrenic amplifier with a multitude of personalities. Today the bass was below par, so I turned it up. I also noticed that the overload lamp does not flicker consistently. Play a record once and no flicker, play it again and the lamp lights.
But the big surprise is the drop in volume on the right channel, which comes back. It was pronounced enough that I played the passage again to see if the volume dropped in the recording. It didn’t. Just another “Face of Eve.”
Oh and I don’t want to forget to mention the intense SMELL that this amps makes, pungent, electrical, and nasty. Really nasty, but at least I’ll give it this, even with the unwelcome aroma the amp doesn’t get unevenly hot, in fact it is equally warm on each side.
All these different personalities are being caused by a collection of old parts in various states of impending failure, plus many NOS old parts, but old none the less. I need to do what you did, start over and replace everything. The timing isn’t right for that just now, so I look forward to hearing how YOUR 4400 is after you get Martin’s kits installed.
However I really do have to say that I agree with you, these amps are especially beautiful. I am not entirely sure why the 4400 pleases me so much aesthetically, but it does.
I hope when you get everything soldered in place that your Beomaster 4400 simply blows you away.
You just animated me to plug in and turn on my BM 4000, also refurbished with Beoworld help, I'm not sure which design I like more, well Black IS beautiful. When I go to my work shop and turn on my BM 2400, that one is my favorite, but all 3 of them are different personalities, not to speak of my BM 901, the BM 4000 is playing softly on an oldie station, in a minut or 2 I will turn him up a bit, I always let them warm up a bit before they have to work harder.
Funny that Jeff!
My own Beomaster 4400 doesn't smell anything, nor does it change characters according to its will.
It just sounds gorgeous!
Jacques
Piaf:I look forward to virtually each and every play of my 4400 as each play is different…
A prerequisite for an English sports car enthusiast I thought ? :-0
Since Soren mentioned the Bv1600 i have been enjoying the bm4400 daily. You have to get your 4400 fixed.and yes I know it will cost money
I would not recommend using equipment that smelled under load, no smoke without fire.
By the way, has any of you tried the Beomaster 2000?
It is of course less powerful than the 4400, but what a sound! And it is another gorgeous receiver from the B&O stable!
The 2200 is similar and also excellent sounding. Usually very cheap!
Peter
Yes, you are right. The BM2000 (Type: 2801) is one of the best Beomasters I think. It is a superb amplifier, I have one in white and it is my favorite (after the Beolab 608, but this not the same category :-))
I have also BM4000 and I am not so enthused with him. Maybe it is only one I have but for me BM2000 sounds better.
I read lot of reports here about BM2000 before I got mine and it is realy good. I think the Beomaster 3400 is also one of these goodies. Did you hear it?
Unfortunately I do not have BM4400 and I can compare them :-(
Vintage Bang & Olufsen
Jacques,
My Beomaster doesn’t smell anything either, it just gives off an awful aroma when pushed to high volume levels.
Then there is the sound, it is what it is at the moment. Next play it will be different. Yesterday the bass was reduced from previous levels, so I adjusted it. Then the right channel dropped in volume dramatically, only to recover.
Unfortunate, to be sure, on top on my favourite amp, the Beomaster 4500 giving me notice that it too needs rebuilding.
Thankfully the Beomaster 2400 which is WAY past the point where it should have been rebuilt, continues to solider on in defiance of time. God love it!
That leaves me with only my BeoCenter 9000 which is new enough not to scream for a rebuild and which is performing splendidly.
Thank goodness I have a good sense of humour.
I very much suspect that you are right and I will take your advice as the aroma is quite strong and pungent.
Hello Peter,
I agree the Beomaster 2200 looks like an interesting, even an intriguing amplifier, but at present I have my hands full with three Beomasters that require complete rebuilds.
My favourite amplifier, the Beomaster 4500 is clearly in need of a rebuild. The once incomprehensibly beautiful sound is now just a memory. The 4500 soldiers on, but the sound varies and occasionally distorts to the point of being unsafe for the speakers.
The Beomaster 4400 CLEARLY needs a complete and total rebuild and is in such a questionable state that I have decided not to use it anymore.
My Beomaster 2400 undoubtedly is performing out of spec, but does so in such an effortless way that I use it every day. The sound quality is quite good, perhaps even very good, and the volume this amp produces is amazing. Still, at its age it is WAY past the post where it should have had a rebuild.
My only B&O amp that does not scream for a rebuild is my BeoCenter 9000, the one rescued from a dumpster.
Once I get my economic house in order I see me keeping Martin very busy indeed, that is, if he is willing.
It had never occurred to me to warm-up an amplifier before pressing it into “hard” service, but it makes sense….. I wouldn’t THINK of driving a British vintage car without warming it up first, so why not an amplifier?
One of our members wisely advised me not to use my Beomaster 4400 due to the pungent order it omits during use, but today I simply felt compelled to try your suggestion.
Whoa, what a HUGE difference from yesterday. Previously the bass had dropped off something fierce…. and there was that bit of the right channel dropping volume, like 40%, and then regaining the volume.
Today the bass was in abundance….. ABUNDANCE, so much so that I reduced my previous adjustments from +2 to 0. After a bit there was a slight crackle in the high end.
Honestly I can’t make up my mind if this is more like watching The Seven Faces of Eve or a slow motion train wreck. Point of fact I have seen neither, but I am trying to paint a visual here with a metaphor.
I rather suspect being an adult I will soon adhere to the clearly good advice to stop using this horribly compromised Beomaster, but at the same time I find myself fascinated by all its different….. for lack of a better word, moods.
More importantly, I look forward to your REAL progress made when Martin’s wonderful kits arrive.
Piaf:I rather suspect being an adult I will soon adhere to the clearly good advice to stop using this horribly compromised Beomaster, but at the same time I find myself fascinated by all its different….. for lack of a better word, moods.
Please Jeff:
Unplug your BM 4400 and dont connect again before it has been refurbished, you may destroy it beyond repair, as for mine, the spares are now at my sister in DK, they will be shipped next week, then I can hope to get them in 1-6 weeks, depending on Mexpost, hopefully it will go faster.
As for warming up the amp before using it, why do you think the "newer" amps has as standby function. I never run anything at full speed, machines, cars, the FS or even myself, without warming up,
Coming from you, consider it done. Unplugged will prevent any further usage from ill-placed curiosity.
I sure hope that Mexpost is faster than Canada Post. Here ¼ of the postage is for shipping the remaining ¾ is for storage.
It is a funny bit about the warming up process, as I have religiously done so with auto speakers since I was a teenager….. intelligence from a teenager, go figure. I never had the amplifier in mind, rather the speakers, especially now that I am in this bitterly cold place, and it makes sense not to blast them when they are frozen cold, the speakers being located in the doors. And as proof this works, I have never had a broken speaker ever. (OK one speaker stopped functioning, but the car was six years old when I purchased it.)
One thing I have learned here at BeoWorld is that I am miserable at making assumptions, so I stopped trying and just ask questions. Would your advice also apply to my Beomaster 4500? It doesn’t give off pungent aromas like the 4400, but it is showing clear signs of instability when pressed.
Returning to your opening comment, thank you most sincerely for the concern for the 4400 and me…. much appreciated!
If your BM 4500 is acting up, dont use it, it will never get better, but certainly worse, if an amp starts showing malfunctions its warning signs, in your car you will have warning lamps or displays, for water temp. oil level/pressure, if your water temp. get too high, you will turn of your motor, if the oil pressure goes down, the same, its the same with the amps, if there are warning signs, you turn it of and find the failure, before more goes bad, in a car you may loose your motor if you dont stop, in an amp, it may be like in my BM 4400, the whole output stages. So unplug and find the failure, before it gets worse.
Hi Søren,
It all makes perfect sense and of course I will follow your suggestions to the letter.
The Beomaster 4500 used to have the most incredible sound, rich, full-bodied, remarkably complex, and REALISTIC. This is far and away my favourite amplifier.
That marvelous sound is now just a memory. The complexity remains, but the clarity in the upper end is not right and the bass is reduced.
Even in its compromised state the Beomaster 4500 continues to produce pleasant music, BUT at moderate volume. If care is not taken not to over-tax this amp it did on two occasions make some terrible noises that caused truly awful distortion from the S.120.2 speakers. I would run from wherever I was to turn down the volume, and the pressing problem disappeared.
I was “content” thinking that as long as the 4500 wasn’t pushed too hard it would be alright. I see that is simply not the case. Electronic components are clearly failing and reading from what Peter has told you, if one component fails hard it can take out everything else downstream.
I do not remotely begin to truly understand why, but I do accept that this is reality and I have unnecessarily been pushing my luck. That stops now and thanks to you!
I mean it is not like I don’t have two other functioning amps in the living room, the McIntosh 2255 and the BeoCenter 9000, which is 10 years newer than my Beomaster 2400 which still has yet to develop issues.
Of course the Beomaster 4500 is newer still, but with used stereos we have no idea how they were treated by previous owners.
I don’t have your skill with electronics; I tried to repair my Beogram 8000 but ended up sending the circuit board to Martin who found a laundry list of failures, vastly exceeding my ability to repair.
There is absolutely no one in my region who is up to the challenge which means shipping these amplifiers and shipping to Denmark is unbelievably expensive. I am sure with the help of BeoWorld that I could find a suitable shop in the US or maybe even Canada, but I would prefer to send it all to Martin, because then I would know the repairs would be complete and done right.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom and averting real trouble with these amps.
This question is directed to Søren, as his Beomaster 2400 is his favourite amplifier, however any and all opinions are MORE than welcome.
For reasons of safety I am no longer using my Beomaster 4400 or 4500 and as such took the record I was playing yesterday using the Beomaster 4400 and played it on my Beomaster 2400/Beogram 4002 combination.
The Beomaster 2400 does a more than credible job in all aspects; however the complexity of reproduction with either of my now retired amps exceeds the performance of the Beomaster 2400. There is nothing “wrong” with the sound quality; it is just like some of the music is missing.
Perhaps I am imagining things… I wouldn’t put it past me, or possibly some of the component atrophy that must be occurring is limiting the full potential performance.
What I am trying to say is with several instruments playing at the same time, I believe the Beomaster 2400 plays only the louder of the instruments and does not attempt to reproduce the subtleties of the quieter instruments.
I suppose it could be the S45 speakers, but also from memory I believe that Peter said the S45 was a better balanced speaker as compared to the S75. (Personally I like them both.)
So Søren why is the Beomaster 2400 your favourite amp. As I recall you said your 2400 is mellow, well mine is certainly mellow as well.
Thanks for your patience guys, I know I ask a lot of questions, but only because I am truly interested in the answers.
I love my BM 2400 because it is pleasant to listen to, not because it is the best. My BM 4000 is more detailed, but that also depends on the speakers, the most detailed and best sound for classical music is my 5000 stack with Bvox 3702, but if I turn up the volume high the 3702 gets too "clear" in the highs, and I have to turn down the treble a bit, I have had my 5000 stack connected to my BL 8000, but I like my 3702s better.
As we discussed before it a matter of what you like and which kind of music you are listening to. For good old rock and roll I use my BM 4000, BG 2404, and Bvox 3702.
Soft working music in my workshop is my BM 2400, and my Bvox 1600.
For all round daily listening I use my Beosound 3000 with the BL 8000s, also because its easier for my wife to use.
Well you certainly have a wide variety of music sources to choose from.
And as we discussed before it has a good deal to do with the choice of music.
The point I was attempting to address is the Beomaster 2400’s lack of clarity when multiple instruments are being played. I was asking if this is just MY Beomaster 2400, or the series in general.
I have my own theories on this question; I feel that a rebuild, although not currently required, would improve the performance of this Beomaster.
I am like you; I pick my systems based on what I want to play.
For ease of listening I generally use my BeoCenter 9000. Nothing remarkable about this amp, but it has a great remote feature and generally performs very well overall.
If I am serious about the music, if the piece is complex and requires articulate reproduction, like harpsichord, violin, and wind instruments; then I go to my best system the Mac 2255, Linn Isobaric/McIntosh ML-2 speakers, and my BEST turntable the Beogram 4000/MMC20CL.
In the past when I wanted the most exquisite sound, even better than the Mac I would choose the Beomaster 4500, but that option is closed for now.
In closing before anyone gets the idea that I am not completely fond of my Beomaster 2400, lack of complexity notwithstanding, please allow me to correct that imagine, as I am. The Beomaster 2400 is in my bedroom where I do the ironing, and let me tell you this old Beomaster can really punch out the music.
Today it was (I am ashamed to admit) listening to No Mercy, a group most of you have never heard of out of Miami, rather limited in many ways, but a very good beat. I only have the English recording and simply must get the Spanish one, as I prefer it. ¿A dónde vas?
Piaf:Today it was (I am ashamed to admit) listening to No Mercy, a group most of you have never heard of out of Miami, rather limited in many ways, but a very good beat. I only have the English recording and simply must get the Spanish one, as I prefer it. ¿A dónde vas?
Nothing to be ashamed of, I listen sometimes to The Swinging Blue Jeans, just for the beat, an old 45 vinyl, Hippy, Hippy Shake, B side Good Golly Miss Molly, and then The Dave Clark Five, Glad all over, Bits and Pieces, Jumping around in the kitchen cooking, the neighbors like it too
Good Golly Miss Molly and the Dave Clark Five…. love them both. They are in my juke box.
On a higher note, may I humbly recommend Nana Mouskouri and Mireille Mathieu.
Piaf: Good Golly Miss Molly and the Dave Clark Five…. love them both. They are in my juke box. On a higher note, may I humbly recommend Nana Mouskouri and Mireille Mathieu. Jeff
Mireille Mathieu I have on LP and 45, Nana only one 45 I think, her Never on a Sunday we all know, beautiful voices
Mireille Mathieu and Nana Mouskouri are two of my favourite singers of all time. Both sing in a wide range of languages. I had the privilege of meeting Ms. Mouskouri a couple of years ago and she talked at length about her father, the town projectionist and her mother who was also a singer, but not “recognized” as such. The impromptu meeting was a real treat for me.
And Édith Piaf of course...
Well Edith Piaf was truly in a class by herself. What that woman did with her hands alone was astonishing. Standing almost motionless, always in a black dress, you saw the pale face and hands…. it was mesmerizing. Then there was that voice, that of raw emotion.
For years Mireille Mathieu avoided any Piaf songs, but eventually in the seventies, I think, she did Piaf. Technically Mireille Mathieu did a better job, but it wasn’t Piaf, the depth of feeling was missing…… desperation, the despair.
Between Edith Piaf, Mireille Mathieu, and Nana Mouskouri I have slightly over 75 LP’s, so it is very safe to say that I enjoy their music.
Well here in France Piaf is still looked up to, but Nana and Mireille Mathieu are often - nay always - derided!
They were always more successful abroad.
Hi Jacques,
That Edith Piaf is revered in France is to be expected.
That Mireille Mathieu is not surprises me. Mireille Mathieu sang La Marseillaise with full orchestra and chorus in front of the Eiffel Tower…. and it was amazing.
Now if Mireille Mathieu not being held in the highest esteem surprised me, than Nana Mouskouri truly SHOCKS me.
Ms. Mouskouri, like Edith Paif has a way with her hands that is captivating. However her voice descends from the heavens.
I heard her do an a capella encore in Tampa that was devastatingly beautiful, so much so that after hearing it I was left in my seat like overcooked pasta. In fact it was the Tampa concert that was the focal point of our conversation when Ms. Mouskouri performed in Victoria.
Still my username is Piaf; the license plate on my car is simply Piaf.
Found her, way back, thank you for reminding me, Folle, folle. follement heureuse, On est bien, Acropolis adeiu, La vie en rose, I´m swoofing
I am glad I was able to reacquaint you with Mireille Mathieu. I simply love this woman’s voice…. I must as I have 27 of her records and a stack of her CD’s, but the LP’s are much better.
You might want to check out Nana Mouskouri as well, a totally different kind of singer but one I recommend with all my heart. I actually prefer hearing Nana Mouskouri singing in her native Greek, but her English, French, and German recordings are excellent as well.
Mmmm... Here listening to Nana Mouskouri or Mireille Mathieu records is considered like a disease. Of course there are fans—elderly people— but such objects are often found at car boot sales, unwanted and gathering dust. Nobody wants them even for free. I kid you not.
Piaf is a different matter. She is indeed respected and admired, a legend in herself. My dad was a huge fan of hers. Non, rien de rien, non, je ne regrette rien... I can see her hands join!
Hello Jacques,
Sad to hear that listening to Mireille Mathieu and Nana Mouskouri requires a disease in France. Here in North America things are a bit different, outside of Quebec no one has ever heard of Mireille Mathieu. I was introduced to her by my mentor in university, who was German, so go figure.
Nana Mouskouri is a different matter, as there is a small but dedicated following.
“Non, je ne regrette rien” is my absolute favorite of Edith Piaf’s songs and it perfectly sumed up her life.
The thought that it was your dad who admired Edith Piaf at first really made me feel my age, but then I remembered that I was 12 years old when she died…. not so bad. Your dad had very good taste!
Yes one year before I was born, the year of JFK's assassination.
Nice chat while waiting for Søren's job!
The kits should go out from DK this week, I hope they get here fast.
As for Mereille not being that popular in France, I think it has a lot to do with her popularity in Germany, took a long time for the French to get over the 2nd WW.
Found this one too, Listening as writing. see at the bottom of the cover, some years ago, in our old house, we had a rain torment, very heavy rain for 3 hours, we were fighting it for 2 hours, all towels and sheets, whatever could suck up water, even a industrial water sucking Hoover, came into play, my son was running the Hoover for 2 hours, I was fighting to make barriers outside, the wife handling towels and sheets inside, a nice family quality time, We saved the wood floor.
But the day after, I found that I had some LPs standing on the floor beside the bookcase where they normally was stored, Mireille was one of them, they got 1 inch of water, I saved them all but most of the covers was, like, glued together.
I have that LP, CD, and 8-Track. Oddly enough, that is the 8-Track I am playing on my Beomaster 2400 right now. Funny world.
I brought the Akai 8-Track upstairs instead of the Beogram 4500 CD player due to the 7-pin connection. In my current stereo configuration in the master bedroom the Beocord 8004 is way too large for the available space, so I tried the 8-Track. Not a huge success, but a start.
I think I will remove the two black stereo tables from the dining room and see if I can make something work in the bedroom. These tables allow me to put the speakers underneath so I gain a good deal of space.
Assuming I can make this Beomaster 2400, Beocord 8004, Beogram 4002 combination work am I best advised to stick with the S45 speakers or would the S75’s be a better choice? Of course I also have the S120.2 speakers available, but I wouldn’t do that to this nice little amp.
All of a sudden I have all sorts of unused equipment due to the retirement of the two amplifiers.
One last note and it is one of thanks! I have taken your plea for me to unplug my two amplifiers seriously and have so done. However this evening my wonderful and ever-patient spouse asked about the Beomaster 4500. I explained what has taken place, but felt the need to play the Beomaster 4500 for reasons exceeding explanation. Initially the Beomaster 4500 did a superb job of playing a CD and then the woofer distortion started, shocking both of us, and I unplugged the 4500 for the last time.
I certainly hope that against all odds that my Beomaster 2400 holds in there or I am going to have an incredible collection of dead Beomasters in my Bang & Olufsen museum.
¡Via con Dios!
There is another Beomaster 4400 for sale on eBay at a decent price, as it does not work. Cosmetically it is less of a challenge than the one you are already working on.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970s-Bang-and-Olufsen-Beomaster-4400-PROJECT-B-O-/110975575381?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19d6a8e555
Just to let you know.