Master 45 type P radio

Hi all,

I managed to pick up a master 45 type P radio, trying to find some more information any know anything about these?

it it missing a power lead so no idea what condition it is in, is there any manuals for these as might see if my father in law can do anything with it otherwise it will be hollowed out and used to hid a oppo player and Xbox.

thanks

Toby

badgersurf:

.. otherwise it will be hollowed out and used to hid a oppo player and Xbox.

Master 45P is not a particularly exciting radio - seen as a radio, and designwise it is almost 100% identical
to the Master 45, 44K and 43K, but it is interesting for other reasons;
It is a somewhat rare model.
It's the first radio produced by B&O after the war, production actually first started in 1946 when the rebuilding of the factory after
the bombing was done, and as such it was an important product for B&O.
In Denmark, access to many materials was restricted during the german occupation and that can be seen in this radio.
Since around 1943 many of B&Os radios had paper-insulated wires (rather than rubber), simply because nothing better
was available.
In Master 45P B&Os engineers had to make the best of three valves plus a rectifier and the volume
potentiometer was replaced by a 14-position rotating switch and a series of resistors for the same reason.

Lots of information is available if you ask or search for it, the full servicemanual etc. but
reading statements like the above in a B&O enthusiast forum usually makes me turn around and walk away because
the enthusiasm clearly is not there.

Martin

Completely agree with Martin on this. Breaking it up at this stage would be a real shame.

If you don't want it, perhaps sell it. Where are you located?

Ok so the drunk idea of using it to hide the Oppo was a very stupid one (I will blame the wife), so once I gave the house sorted I will set about a restoration project.

Regards

Toby

Hi Toby,

 

You managed to find one of the rarest radio's made by B&O.

As Martin wrote, the Master 45 P was the first model produced after the war in a very limited number

I would advise you to keep the Master 45 P as original as possible.

 

Do you have any pictures of it?

 

I woud be  interested to buy the Master 46 P from you if you ever want sell it.

 

Rudy

 

 

 

 

 

Beoradio:

Hi Toby,

You managed to find one of the rarest radio's made by B&O.

As Martin wrote, the Master 45 P was the first model produced after the war in a very limited number

Rudy

Very interesting to hear this Rudy. Is this radio even rarer as the Beolit 39/40?

May I ask you, for you as a B&O collector, what is the rarest B&O item actually (apart from those prototypes which never went in serial production, as Beomaster 4401 or other)? What would you say? Do you have (or know) any statistic about the production number of such a rare items?

For example I know that Minette 609K, Amplifier 911H44 (known as Amplifier Type HF), Amplifier Type 911 H58 (known as Amplifier 607) or portable radios Beolit Teena are rare B&O items from end of 50's, beginning of 60's but I don't know much about items from 40's or early 50's...

It would be nice to hear your opinion / experience...

Maybe little bit off-topic, sorry Toby...

Theomaster

 

With regards to rarity, Beolit 39 would not be the one to compare it to.
Beolit 39 is not a particularly rare model, - it was actually a quite popular model.
But it was a cheap model so not a huge investment and not as likely to be stored and kept when retired as
if it had been a larger, more advanced and expensive model.
When very few of them comes up for sale today, it's mainly because owners tend to hold on to them.
I know of, perhaps, 15-20 Beolit 39 sets. I only know of two or three Master 45P sets - perhaps four now.

If you want the Master 45P to work and play for everyday use, by all means go ahead and restore it.

If you want the Master 45P to keep its value, I suggest you leave it as-is and don't start any restoration jobs.
You would most definitely have to, in some way or another, modify the historically interesting bits inside to
make it work and be reasonably safe. Doing that would take out both the historical value and  the collectors value -
in this case the best things this radio presents.

(It will never be a great performer anyways - just saying).

Martin

Hi Martin,

 

I can only agree 100 % with you.

The Beolit 39 is more sought after by most collectors, however the Master 45 P is very hard to find.

My estimation, there are only a handful fo Master 45 P left.

If it were my radio, I wouldn't touch it and leave it in the present condition.

 

Rudy

 

 

Collectors come in all shapes and sizes.
I've seen people with a Beosound 9000, a Beovision something and a pair of Beolab 8000 speakers in the
livingroom, linked to two or three other rooms with local speakers etc. calling themselves B&O collectors.

Most collectors want a Beolit 39 to put up front as the beautiful and instantly recognizable showpiece it is.
It's a conversation piece. - And yes, it must of course be found in any serious B&O collection.
Personally, however, I am more impressed if I see something like the Master 45P or something else that I very
rarely see - or perhaps never saw before.
The Master 45P is not a thing of beauty, and to most "outsiders" it would be just yet another boring old radio that
looks... to be honest... well, the way it looks.

It's a wonderful piece.
-In the collectors eye, anyways.

To turn back to the OP, I'd say;
If you are not going to start a collection - sell it on as-is to a collector like Rudy. It will be in the best of hands there.
If you want a radio to restore, practice on, play with and use on a daily basis, I would recommend finding something from the
late 1950's, where FM reception is also included. Master 45P is AM only and in most areas there's not a lot
of interesting AM-waves to listen to.
F.e. a JET 510K or perhaps an early 1960s JET 606/607
Here a small sample of my own restorations from that range:
http://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/2770/19631.aspx
http://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/38709.aspx

Martin

 @ Theomaster

One can only make an estimation about the production numbers in the early days.

A few people have started to collect serial numbers of the radio's and other items,  but the list also shows some gaps that can not be explained.

For instance the 1927/1928 3 and 5 lamps radio's which are remaining have serial numbers in the range of 1100  to 1250.

Most likely B&O started numbering their radios from 1.000 upwards.

Hyperbo Senior  37 can be found with serial numbers from 12.500 to 13.750.

By the end of 1937 the production was 25 to 30 radio's a day.

In 1938 the "new"  factory opened and the serial numbers start from 20.000 upwards for the Junior 38.

Master 38 has serial numbers 26.000 upwards.

Master de luxe 38  has serial numbers  30.000 upwards

Standard 38 has serial numbers  35.000 upwards

Also in the 1940's and 50s we also see these " jumps " in serial numbers.

For this reason it's almost impossible to give exact numbers of production.

A few years ago I saw some small booklets, calendars, from the 1970's (?)  containing the daily production numbers of the different types with serial numbers on a daily bases. I assume that these were distributed among  the dealers  and that the Struer museum could have these in their collection.

End conclusion, we will never know the production numbers of the early models but for sure the production is small compared to the number of radio's Philips or Telefunken has produced.

Rudy

 

 

 

 

 

I have tried to add some photos but can seem to get the link to here. But there are 2 in the media section under Vintage B&O Products (Pre-1980).

I will get some better photos soon

badgersurf:

I have tried to add some photos but can seem to get the link to here. But there are 2 in the media section under Vintage B&O Products (Pre-1980).

I will get some better photos soon

I hope we will see few fotos of your specimen of this rare model.

In the meantime I tried to find any fotos of this model and found nothing. I have a foto of one radio without the name of the model and this could be maybe the MAster 45 P. Can anybody confirm if it is? (here the foto):

Dillen:

Collectors come in all shapes and sizes.
I've seen people with a Beosound 9000, a Beovision something and a pair of Beolab 8000 speakers in the
livingroom, linked to two or three other rooms with local speakers etc. calling themselves B&O collectors.

Yes, you are probabaly right Martin. But their needs to claim themselves "collectors" actually tells how strong is their identification with this brand and nothing more. As a B&O collector (with 60+ B&O devices and 100+ other different B&O items I hope I can say that I am at least "small B&O collector"  ), I don't have problem with that at all and I have sympathy for that.

Dillen:

Most collectors want a Beolit 39 to put up front as the beautiful and instantly recognizable showpiece it is.
It's a conversation piece. - And yes, it must of course be found in any serious B&O collection.

Still working on that

Dillen:

Personally, however, I am more impressed if I see something like the Master 45P or something else that I very
rarely see - or perhaps never saw before. The Master 45P is not a thing of beauty, and to most "outsiders" it would be just yet another boring old radio that looks... to be honest... well, the way it looks.

It's a wonderful piece.
-In the collectors eye, anyways.

pictures, pictures ...

 

Dillen:

To turn back to the OP, I'd say;
If you are not going to start a collection - sell it on as-is to a collector like Rudy. It will be in the best of hands there.

Agree 100% on that...

 

Beoradio:

 @ Theomaster

One can only make an estimation about the production numbers in the early days.

A few people have started to collect serial numbers of the radio's and other items,  but the list also shows some gaps that can not be explained.

For instance the 1927/1928 3 and 5 lamps radio's which are remaining have serial numbers in the range of 1100  to 1250.

Most likely B&O started numbering their radios from 1.000 upwards.

Hyperbo Senior  37 can be found with serial numbers from 12.500 to 13.750.

By the end of 1937 the production was 25 to 30 radio's a day.

In 1938 the "new"  factory opened and the serial numbers start from 20.000 upwards for the Junior 38.

Master 38 has serial numbers 26.000 upwards.

Master de luxe 38  has serial numbers  30.000 upwards

Standard 38 has serial numbers  35.000 upwards

Also in the 1940's and 50s we also see these " jumps " in serial numbers.

For this reason it's almost impossible to give exact numbers of production.

A few years ago I saw some small booklets, calendars, from the 1970's (?)  containing the daily production numbers of the different types with serial numbers on a daily bases. I assume that these were distributed among  the dealers  and that the Struer museum could have these in their collection.

End conclusion, we will never know the production numbers of the early models but for sure the production is small compared to the number of radio's Philips or Telefunken has produced.

Rudy

Many thanks for your effort sharing this statistics with us Rudy!

I know that for example Frede made statistics about Beolab + Beomaster 5000 collecting their serial numbers. There is a thread about that here on Beoworld.

But reading few post about the museum in Struer I've got feeling they don't have acctualy many of older B&O items in their collection. I am wondering if they still have those information about production numbers and rarity of some items.

One more question: some time ago I posted few pictures and informations about my acquisition of B&O U22 amplifier (which restoration is unfortunately still not finished...). It is my oldest B&O item. Do you know any production numbers of it? How many of them did you see around? (this question is of course targeted to you Martin too)?

Theomaster

Hi,

On this website you can find the official inventory of most of the Danish museums.

This link will bring you to  the inventory of B&O items of the Struer museum.

https://www.kulturarv.dk/mussam/Tilknyttede.action?parentId=285907&listType=genstand&parentType=sag

I was always told that there are no date left about production numbers of the sets produced before 1950.

About the U22, I have only seen a few of these in private collections.

I can only guess how many are left, 10 to 20 pcs max ?

Rudy

 

Will try and get some better pictures when I can, these were two that I had on my phone (sorry about the quality)

 

The radio on the picture is a Master 44 or Master 45 with UM4 magic eye.

Due to the shortage of parts, the Master 45P was a " basic" design and the magic eye was replaced by a cardboard label due to the shortage of UM4 magic eyes.

 

Rudy

 

I managed to get the radio out of storage to get some better pictures.

You can see from the label that its got a date of 18 Jan 1947.

And to think the wife and myself  just though that it might be something nice to hide a bluray player in!

Thanks for the pictures.

I would say it does not look so bad at all.

badgersurf:

And to think the wife and myself  just though that it might be something nice to hide a bluray player in!

As you can read in the posts of Martin and Rudy it is really rare and collectable model. It would be really shame to destroy it and rebuilt to Bluray-Box.

Why not sell it on as-is to a collector like Rudy as martin suggested? It will be in the best of hands and you can buy much cheaper B&O radio which is not that rare but optically nice for you and your wife. It would be still pity to destroy any nice old B&O radio but at least such a rare specimen would be saved.

Look here, maybe some of those would be also good and nice enough for you as bluray box:

http://www.dba.dk/radio-bo-master-de-luxe/id-1032976341/

http://www.dba.dk/am-fm-radio-bang-olufsen/id-1032788209/

or even one of these:

http://www.dba.dk/anden-radio-bang-olufsen/id-1029314800/

Theomaster

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Toby,

 

Thanks for the pictures of the Master 45 P.

Always very interesting to see some pictures of the old B&O radio's.

 

Rudy

 

Good morning
I am selling a Master 45 P radio
More information at rafal.dampc@transportservice.pl

Good morning
I am selling a Master 45 P radio
More information at rafal.dampc@transportservice.pl

Dillen:

badgersurf:

.. otherwise it will be hollowed out and used to hid a oppo player and Xbox.

Master 45P is not a particularly exciting radio - seen as a radio, and designwise it is almost 100% identical
to the Master 45, 44K and 43K, but it is interesting for other reasons;
It is a somewhat rare model.
It's the first radio produced by B&O after the war, production actually first started in 1946 when the rebuilding of the factory after
the bombing was done, and as such it was an important myloweslife product for B&O.

In Denmark, access to many materials was restricted during the german occupation and that can be seen in this radio.
Since around 1943 many of B&Os radios had paper-insulated wires (rather than rubber), simply because nothing better
was available.
In Master 45P B&Os engineers had to make the best of three valves plus a rectifier and the volume
potentiometer was replaced by a 14-position rotating switch and a series of resistors for the same reason.

Lots of information is available if you ask or search for it, the full servicemanual etc. but
reading statements like the above in a B&O enthusiast forum usually makes me turn around and walk away because
the enthusiasm clearly is not there.

Martin

Thanks for the information, I will try to figure it out for more. Keep sharing such informative post.