ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
moxxey: I must admit, the Bild 5 is fairly impressive. Decent looking (not a stunner, but better than 95% of TVs on the market), great price.
Chris Townsend: £3,000 for a 55 inch! Amazing
£3,000 for a 55 inch! Amazing
I'm note sure if this is the complete price or the screen only. On the German site the screen only is 3500€, the soundbar 450€, and the wall brackets or stands are 60-1000€. The Bild 4 oled is 3000€ fully equipped.
But still excellent price. And as there is a parameter to the menu to connect active speakers you can buy the screen and connect BeoLabs (I did it in the past with my BL4 and it worked fluently) ...
benoit: I'm note sure if this is the complete price or the screen only. On the German site the screen only is 3500€, the soundbar 450€, and the wall brackets or stands are 60-1000€. The Bild 4 oled is 3000€ fully equipped.
Well, in theory I could get the wall-mount option and it could replace the BV12-65 and the approx cost to upgrade - around £1500. That's simply incredible for an OLED. £1500 for a 55" brand new OLED. Take my BV12-65 now!
Can always use a lintronic box hidden away to control everything and then you have full Beo4 control!
benoit: Chris Townsend: £3,000 for a 55 inch! Amazing I'm note sure if this is the complete price or the screen only. On the German site the screen only is 3500€, the soundbar 450€, and the wall brackets or stands are 60-1000€. The Bild 4 oled is 3000€ fully equipped. But still excellent price. And as there is a parameter to the menu to connect active speakers you can buy the screen and connect BeoLabs (I did it in the past with my BL4 and it worked fluently) ...
Datasheet:
http://www.gersdorf-shop.de/WebRoot/Store/Shops/15073932/5954/FF42/014C/936C/AA13/C0A8/2BBC/73DF/LOE38324_PI_bild4_55_DE.pdf
Pics:
https://www.loewe.tv/de/configure/bild-4
I am going to take a look at this when its available in Norway in August. Also considering the Bild 5 monitor only. Regardless, great prices and you get a little better quality that the standard manufacturers.
I understand I can connect my Beolab 20's to it without any major issues. Is there any special requirements for cabling or anything? Thanks!
benoit:Did you go to listen to one? I agree it's not the sound of a BeoVision but very close when you compare the Loewe upper models. I could see and listen to the Bild 7 oled (the one with the screen moving up to show the sound bar) and it was quite impressive and nor far from B&O. I own an Art UHD (now called Bild 3) and again the sound is not far from the BeoVision Horizon. The Assist remote control can control an Apple TV and some STB boxes connected to the TV.
Ammier: I understand I can connect my Beolab 20's to it without any major issues. Is there any special requirements for cabling or anything? Thanks!
The current models have all L/R audio out (cinch) and digital SPDIF. I used just a simple cable to connect the TV to the BeoLabs line in. And after you just have to set the parameter in the TV menu to 'speakers system (AUDIO OUT)'.
BeoGreg: benoit: Did you go to listen to one? I agree it's not the sound of a BeoVision but very close when you compare the Loewe upper models. I could see and listen to the Bild 7 oled (the one with the screen moving up to show the sound bar) and it was quite impressive and nor far from B&O. I own an Art UHD (now called Bild 3) and again the sound is not far from the BeoVision Horizon. The Assist remote control can control an Apple TV and some STB boxes connected to the TV. Yep, my B&O dealer is also a LOEWE dealer and I had a long demo of Bild 7. Can't compete with my BV11 for sure. With movies the BV11 is unbelievable (much more than on audio mode), very heavy bass.
benoit: Did you go to listen to one? I agree it's not the sound of a BeoVision but very close when you compare the Loewe upper models. I could see and listen to the Bild 7 oled (the one with the screen moving up to show the sound bar) and it was quite impressive and nor far from B&O. I own an Art UHD (now called Bild 3) and again the sound is not far from the BeoVision Horizon. The Assist remote control can control an Apple TV and some STB boxes connected to the TV.
Did you go to listen to one? I agree it's not the sound of a BeoVision but very close when you compare the Loewe upper models. I could see and listen to the Bild 7 oled (the one with the screen moving up to show the sound bar) and it was quite impressive and nor far from B&O. I own an Art UHD (now called Bild 3) and again the sound is not far from the BeoVision Horizon.
The Assist remote control can control an Apple TV and some STB boxes connected to the TV.
Yep, my B&O dealer is also a LOEWE dealer and I had a long demo of Bild 7.
Can't compete with my BV11 for sure.
With movies the BV11 is unbelievable (much more than on audio mode), very heavy bass.
Yes I agree but with an Horizon for sure and maybe an Avant.
benoit: Ammier: I understand I can connect my Beolab 20's to it without any major issues. Is there any special requirements for cabling or anything? Thanks! The current models have all L/R audio out (cinch) and digital SPDIF. I used just a simple cable to connect the TV to the BeoLabs line in. And after you just have to set the parameter in the TV menu to 'speakers system (AUDIO OUT)'.
Thanks a lot and very nice setup!
Agreed- very stylish
Has the Loewe been reliable, as far as Software goes? What was your dealer support like? What was the 'buying experience' like? Did it compare to B&O?
It's half the price - but was it half the experience (is basically my question...)
Lee
9 LEE: Agreed- very stylish Has the Loewe been reliable, as far as Software goes? What was your dealer support like? What was the 'buying experience' like? Did it compare to B&O? It's half the price - but was it half the experience (is basically my question...) Lee
I had no software problems but i have to tell that I have a basic use of it. I watch TV, listen to net radios (screen can be muted), and very few times I record a movie on the connected hard drive. Some months ago they quite a lot changed the user interface and the use is even better visually speaking. It has electronic curtains but only for switching off. The iPhone remote app was not perfect at the beginning but now it works very well : good remote control, you can programize a recording, you can use the TV tuner to watch a TV program on your tablet or iPhone without switching on the TV screen, ...
I went to Loewe because of the dealer experience! Leaving close to Germany, Loewe is quite popular here. I had several bad experiences with the B&O dealer in my city ( fortunately he closed now... from one day to the other the shop was empty without telling anything to the customers...), that's why I had a look to Loewe. I had many not enough expensive for him audio devices (Century, BS2300, BS8, BS3, BL4, Beolit 12, Beolit 15, Beolit A2, ...) and I couldn't trust him to spend that much money in a TV if no excellent support. I couldn't stand his behavior anymore. I wanted a descent good sound and design for my TV as I hate to add soundbar or too many cables to hide. In my city, I have at least 3 Loewe dealers between 500m and 5 km for my flat (small family owned shops selling as well other brands). I visited one and the dealer was friendly, available, and helpful. I was a bit anxious of having a problem but he was very reassuring telling me that in case of a problem he will fix it even if he has to fight with the brand. I had a dead pixel on a previous model and he fighted till the panel was changed under warranty despite it was only one always blue pixel! The Art UHD is my 4th Loewe and each time I upgraded I had no problem to sell the previous one for descent price. The dealer himself always offered me a discount. Home delivery and installation / setup were always free. Around me I know other people having switched from B&O to Loewe (because of dealer experience or price).
So, if someone asks me, I have to tell him that my Loewe experience is far far better than the B&O one. To be fair I have a german dealer in Freiburg who is very kind and helpful. And thanks to him I stayed faithful to B&O for audio.
If B&O proposed decently priced 'naked' panels having hdmi inputs with separate and optional TV STB and speaker, I would maybe rethink of buying a 'naked' panel that I would connect only to an Apple TV and my BS2. This would be for me the future of B&O : modular and custom built. And it would be something to show that they are really different!
I would choose this if it was time to upgrade :
Try and buy a mixture of new/ex-demo and used from official dealers or resellers.
I personnally make the difference between the audio and video offer of bang olufsen. For the audio part
I will always trust b&o and I am ready to make huge sacrifice for reaching the best quality for my ears.
For the video part, as an owner of a combo bv 7 55 mk2 with bl5, I am not ready to change before a long long time. I have already difficulties to find good sources (plain 1080 p) for using my bv at his best. Unless 4k replaces and is as usefull than fullhd bluray for watching old and new movies/tv, I won't change it.
Netflix is not in plain 1080p, french tv is a shame, old movies won't benefit of the 4k improvements.
Improvement is not the good word because 4k creates a "super" reality that is absolutely not natural.
4 beolab 5, beolab 9, beolab 10, beolab 5000, beolab 8000 mk2, beolab 6002, beolab 3500, beovision 7 55 mk2, 2 beovision 11 46 mk4, beotime, beosound ouverture, beosound essence, beoplay A8, beomaster 900 RG de luxe and the collection continues...
benoit:The current models have all L/R audio out (cinch) and digital SPDIF. I used just a simple cable to connect the TV to the BeoLabs line in. And after you just have to set the parameter in the TV menu to 'speakers system (AUDIO OUT)'.
BeoNut since '75
I haven't tried SPDIF...
Here is the audio setup :
And in an other place you choose between audio normal or digital signal setting.
One some TV channels when I check the sound menu I can see 'multi channel 5.1' but my Art UHD has no integrated audio 5.1 channels decoder (although some tv channels show 'dolby multichannel 5.1', but I should connect an external sound decoder I think)
The Oled models have : integrated audio multichannel 5.1 decoder, digital audio link (don't know exactly what it is), Dolby digital, Dolby digital plus, and DTS
A1
£3,500 for the latest, top of the range (arguably) OLED set in 55" producing the best picture quality experience for decades by miles. This is the NEW and CURRENT tv standard. Just add a decent sound bar (in my case) and you're done. What is my alternative if I stay loyal to B&O, which in many ways I'd like to? An outdated 2012/2016 LCD/LED model (BV11/14) which looks really poor in comparison for almost twice the price? Dealers currently offering BV11 46 TVs for c£5,000 on ebay and alike... really? Good luck getting rid of that stock!
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
BAND'OH!:A1 £3,500 for the latest, top of the range (arguably) OLED set in 55" producing the best picture quality experience for decades by miles. This is the NEW and CURRENT tv standard. Just add a decent sound bar (in my case) and you're done. What is my alternative if I stay loyal to B&O, which in many ways I'd like to? An outdated 2012/2016 LCD/LED model (BV11/14) which looks really poor in comparison for almost twice the price? Dealers currently offering BV11 46 TVs for c£5,000 on ebay and alike... really? Good luck getting rid of that stock!
Fair comment AngloApulian and I too will wait to see what B&O bring out. However, I feel 100% sure based on recent years and releases that it will be nothing more than an LG OLED panel with a better speaker and a more robust remote in fancy packaging. If you're happy to pay over £10,000 for that then good luck to you and I wish you well. Me? I am renovating a couple of properties at the moment, one to live in and one to rent out and I am spending a lot of money on them. I am not even considering B&O equipment. That say's it all doesn't it? No value for money with B&O whatsoever anymore, just fancy packaging relying on a brand name slowly fading into oblivion with nothing to back it up in terms of value. If I am mistaken in this thinking, please respond explaining the value in me paying the extra cash? I think the Sony's and LGs are remarkable and hung on a wall with a sound bar is a great look, great experience and great selling point. A remote is just a remote. Cheers, Simon.
BAND'OH!:Fair comment AngloApulian and I too will wait to see what B&O bring out. However, I feel 100% sure based on recent years and releases that it will be nothing more than an LG OLED panel with a better speaker and a more robust remote in fancy packaging. If you're happy to pay over £10,000 for that then good luck to you and I wish you well. Me? I am renovating a couple of properties at the moment, one to live in and one to rent out and I am spending a lot of money on them. I am not even considering B&O equipment. That say's it all doesn't it? No value for money with B&O whatsoever anymore, just fancy packaging relying on a brand name slowly fading into oblivion with nothing to back it up in terms of value. If I am mistaken in this thinking, please respond explaining the value in me paying the extra cash? I think the Sony's and LGs are remarkable and hung on a wall with a sound bar is a great look, great experience and great selling point. A remote is just a remote. Cheers, Simon.
Yes that's a fair point and I will do the same and wait before purchasing. I won't be ready until late December early January anyway to wire out the homes ready for whatever I put in, but I just can't see where any current B&O will have its place and it saddens me to say so, but at the end of the day I am putting cash into bricks and mortar and architectural design these days, B&O just doesn't have a place on terms of offering me value for money. Much rather build a new kitchen etc.
I would have bought the Horizon at the first day, when he came into the stores. Because of the PUC the B&O Android smart platform was not so important for me. But when i have seen, that there is no possibility to control a motorized stand i could not find an argument to replace our old BV.
I am sure, the Beovision OLED is going to be a wonderful product, but i don't think that the prize is less than two LOEWE Bild 7/9 or two LG Signature TVs.
Funny, I ran a search on the Loewe website for my nearest dealer and the result is:
What is missing to B&O is the proximity dealer network. Look how many Loewe dealers compared to the fading B&O network...
I guess if B&O had choosen to distribute through dealers, who sell a lot of other brands as well, there would be just as many or more. Some of the 'Loewe dealers' have only a few models on a few squaremeters in their shop.
They did not - they went away from that business model - because B&O is about a bit more than selling a tv. Most Loewe buyers buy a tv only - a few maybe also the external speakers.
Of course this leads to fewer dealers and a greater distance between them.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
No way out, then?
Indeed, there aren't many (any?) stand alone Loewe dealers in London......Selfidges and Harrods have sections, and the Selfirdges one disappeared for a while....much as B&O merit some critique, it simply isn't the case that, even in London, there are many places to buy Loewe TVs......my experience with their Airspeaker a few years ago was truly terrible, extremely fiddly to set up and far from stable.......
Sandyb:Indeed, there aren't many (any?) stand alone Loewe dealers in London......Selfidges and Harrods have sections, and the Selfirdges one disappeared for a while....much as B&O merit some critique, it simply isn't the case that, even in London, there are many places to buy Loewe TVs......my experience with their Airspeaker a few years ago was truly terrible, extremely fiddly to set up and far from stable.......
Living Room: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-2 (Center), Beolab 9 (Fronts), Beolab 8000 (Rears), no Subwoofer. Screen: Sony KD-85XH9096Dining Room: Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 4000 on stands, fed by Amazon Echo Show 8Home Cinema: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-4 (Center), Beolab 1 (Fronts), Beolab 4000 (Rears). Projector: Sony VPL-HW55Home Office: Beosystem 3, Beolab 7-4, Beolab 5000, Screen: Sony KD-55XH9005 on Beovision 7-40 stand, ML to Beosound 9000 MK3 and Beosound 5/Beomaster 5 (1 TB SSD version)Bedroom: Sony KD-65XH9077, Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 6002 and Beolab 11 (all white, wall-mounted)
In storage: Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000 (1960s).
My main concern is software - and B&O is no software company.
I¨ve had the BeoMedia1, the BeoMaster 5 (BS5) and now the Moment - the first two were discontinued before they got them working properly, and it looks like the Moment is heading in that direction, too. And before you state that the Moment is working great for you, let me just point out that I´ve had a Moment for 2+ years and waited and waited for them to wrap up the software. It is still not stable.
I had a ton of ML equipment, and to avoid the interface I took the dive and went for all the new stuff. But it doesn't work as I hoped, the WISA speakers have never worked unless wired the old fashioned way - and we fixed the house without putting in new hidden speaker cables. Disappointed, yes. Got home one night, and me second half had friends over for a meal - the only BL working was the BL19. They were not impressed...
However, our Play-products works great - and this is where the focus is IMHO. Was about to get another pair of BL18, a BS35 and BS2 last week - but as the system is underperforming I may just wait for the Apple HomePod to take care of multi-room. A few things can be said about Apple, but they know software - and unless you do, you will be out of this business.
Roger
The Loewe flagship Bild 9 will (in DK) set you back 64999 DKK - which is equivalent to 7729 UK£ or 9958 US$
http://www.insideci.co.uk/news/loewe-unveils-art-deco-bild-9-oled-dolby-vision-4k-tv.aspx
We still don't know the actual price of the BV Eclipse, but we assume, guess......
Roger:My main concern is software - and B&O is no software company. I¨ve had the BeoMedia1, the BeoMaster 5 (BS5) and now the Moment - the first two were discontinued before they got them working properly, and it looks like the Moment is heading in that direction, too. And before you state that the Moment is working great for you, let me just point out that I´ve had a Moment for 2+ years and waited and waited for them to wrap up the software. It is still not stable. I had a ton of ML equipment, and to avoid the interface I took the dive and went for all the new stuff. But it doesn't work as I hoped, the WISA speakers have never worked unless wired the old fashioned way - and we fixed the house without putting in new hidden speaker cables. Disappointed, yes. Got home one night, and me second half had friends over for a meal - the only BL working was the BL19. They were not impressed... However, our Play-products works great - and this is where the focus is IMHO. Was about to get another pair of BL18, a BS35 and BS2 last week - but as the system is underperforming I may just wait for the Apple HomePod to take care of multi-room. A few things can be said about Apple, but they know software - and unless you do, you will be out of this business. Roger
kallasr:I just upgraded the sound part of a Loewe setup at home with Beolab 11/6002, everything in white (Loewe Individual 40 Selection). Used a soecial cable sold on Ebay. It works very well. Intended to change the TV to a Beovision as well but even at no costs my wife wouldn't let me. The Loewe is white as well, so fits in perfectly...Ralf
Millemissen: The Loewe flagship Bild 9 will (in DK) set you back 64999 DKK - which is equivalent to 7729 UK£ or 9958 US$
Actually, the 65" is £8990, which is not far off the rumoured price for the Eclipse 65" (approx £10K I was told).