ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Puncher:Meanwhile the soundengine is a fantastic solution desperately needing a mass market home at a much lower pricepoint.
I'm beating a decomposing horse with this one: B&O should quit making televisions and offer up their Beosystem Video / Sound engine / Home controller all rolled up into one as, basically a Surround processor. Let the people buy whatever screen they want, but have B&O run the show. I bet if B&O lowered the price point for the beosystem, along with ending production of televisions entirely, maybe they can manufacture the component back in DK for a profit. And the Beosystem engine can be a gateway for their speakers. Give up on the actual TV market, B&O, it is a losing proposition.
i agree, they should leave tv's and concentrate on making speakers I would love to see a "Beosystem 5" as a surround system with PUC controller. This B&O know how to do. Forget the smart TV functions, leave this to the panel manufacture. If they could price this at a sensible price, i would buy it in a second. Add a decent center speaker to the lineup again and i think they would have a winner. I really hope they bring something like this to the marked soon.
Format 0 😀😎
Sal: I'm beating a decomposing horse with this one...
I'm beating a decomposing horse with this one...
That saying made me laugh..
(I may steal it, though.. keep an eye on me)
I think there will always be a market for a TV which is as much a work of art as it is a TV...
It's just how many people buy it, and wether it's worth doing!
The Chinese company behind Loewe is Hisense. Hisense is in a cooperative partnership with Loewe. Essentially Hisense provides technology and software to Loewe. Loewe TVs are assembled in Germany using many components from Hisense. Hisense markets Loewe products in China. Hisense does sell high def TV's in North America. They are really cheap.
For me I am probably going to reluctantly move on from Bang and Olufsen. There is only one dealer near me and if it does not sell B&O anymore, I would not be able to get service. I would also have to travel 1000 miles to visit another dealer.
Bang and Olufsen is like a tiny version of Apple. They design and engineer new products in Denmark but someone else manufactures the products.
Beoplay is about to get some really formidable competition from Apple. The Apple Homepod is projected to sell over a million products in the first year. I think that is a conservative estimate.
I am going to keep the B&O systems I have but I am going to purchase the W series TV from LG.
Good luck Lee. You have a good plan.
linder: ....I would also have to travel 1000 miles to visit another dealer.
....I would also have to travel 1000 miles to visit another dealer.
Vanessa Carlton can provide the inspiration.. Do it !!
Thank you for the good wishes though...
Lee
9 LEE:Thank you for clarifying MM. Just to point out though, I don't recall ever saying Loewe was superior to B&O in picture quality? If I did, or you read something I said that way, I apologise. B&O are obviously superior to Loewe in Loudspeaker technology. No questioning that. Audio Engine? Once I've heard Loewe, properly, I'll let you know. However, it's like comparing a Rolls Royce Phantom with a BMW 7-Series. The Rolls Royce has the edge because it's gone that extra mile with the very best leather, wood, craftsmanship, engineering, prestige, 'magic little touches' like the umbrella popping out of the rear door, thick lambswool carpets - and so on. However, the Rolls Royce costs £347,000 in basic form. The 7-Series costs £60,360 in basic form. Does that make the 7-Series a poor car? No, it doesn't. To many people the 7-Series is an incredible car, and one we'd all love to own. It's kind of a 'Rolls Royce for normal people' if you will. B&O isn't that any more. It's a Rolls Royce for people who can only afford a Rolls Royce. So, when there's a void left - it needs filling.. and other brands will see this, and jump in. Bang & Olufsen are a special company. No doubt. The AV world is a better place with them around. Sadly, though, only special people can afford it these days...
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
'But I would walk 500 milesAnd I would walk 500 moreJust to be the man who walked a thousand miles, To fall down at your door'MM ;-)
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: 'But I would walk 500 milesAnd I would walk 500 moreJust to be the man who walked a thousand miles, To fall down at your door'MM ;-)
The Proclaimers!
Vanessa Carlton said 1,000 miles - straight off the bat, no arguments... The Proclaimers said 500 miles, then reluctantly added another 500 if required.
Who wins here...
Asiseeit: Considering I sell both brands now, I can only give my observations. B&O have had a sticky 12 plus months with s/w. It has cost me business and only the skill of sales and technical staff avoided greater customer dissatisfaction. That is largely in the past with some glitches still to be addressed...I hope B&O has learnt multiple lessons here....we shall see. Loewe for me is the perfect brand to "hoover" up the substantial number of potential clients who baulk at B&O prices and made their way to John Lewis or PC World for a Samsung. It is a lovely thing offering European style and does rather nicely. It is however nothing like B&O in usability terms, finish or sound. They were a relief for the troops selling them as instantly, there seemed to be no s/w issues! Again, whether that continues, we shall see. To sum up, B&O has a great deal more to offer in terms of integration, sound, finish and sheer style but Loewe is a marvelous second eleven. I'll revisit this page after the selling season and give an honest appraisal of both brands in terms of popularity and performance. PS I've also signed up for the new(ish) B&O shop fit. How's that for a vote of confidence from an old campaigner!
Considering I sell both brands now, I can only give my observations. B&O have had a sticky 12 plus months with s/w. It has cost me business and only the skill of sales and technical staff avoided greater customer dissatisfaction. That is largely in the past with some glitches still to be addressed...I hope B&O has learnt multiple lessons here....we shall see.
Loewe for me is the perfect brand to "hoover" up the substantial number of potential clients who baulk at B&O prices and made their way to John Lewis or PC World for a Samsung. It is a lovely thing offering European style and does rather nicely. It is however nothing like B&O in usability terms, finish or sound. They were a relief for the troops selling them as instantly, there seemed to be no s/w issues! Again, whether that continues, we shall see.
To sum up, B&O has a great deal more to offer in terms of integration, sound, finish and sheer style but Loewe is a marvelous second eleven. I'll revisit this page after the selling season and give an honest appraisal of both brands in terms of popularity and performance.
PS I've also signed up for the new(ish) B&O shop fit. How's that for a vote of confidence from an old campaigner!
Nice post and I will follow with interest. To be honest, I am happy with seconds at this stage. I just want a nice looking premium tv that is that 'little bit different' from what you find in the masses. I am happy. Perhaps its old age, I am approaching 50 and I am not that fussed about brands these days, just something that looks different and is well built with no ongoing issues and tested properly before release. Simon.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
9 LEE: Vanessa Carlton said 1,000 miles - straight off the bat, no arguments... The Proclaimers said 500 miles, then reluctantly added another 500 if required. Who wins here... Lee
Let them walk together - makes 2000 miles
MM
Millemissen:Let them walk together - makes 2000 miles MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
You got me - so Vanessa wins
Duels: Millemissen: Let them walk together - makes 2000 miles MM There is a tv - and there is a BV. If they are walking together it's still only 1000 miles. It's only 2000 if it's a relay
Millemissen: Let them walk together - makes 2000 miles MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
There is a tv - and there is a BV.
If they are walking together it's still only 1000 miles.
It's only 2000 if it's a relay
Depends how many times you need to reboot!
Ban boring signatures!
Duels: It's only 2000 if it's a relay
This attention to detail can only be found on BeoWorld...
Loewe is one of the brands with a long design tradition. Like David Lewis at B&O famous german designers like Seifert, Esslinger and offices like Frogdesign, Phoenix and Design 3 worked for Loewe.
In the mid 80's the TV market in Germany was more and more dominated by Japanese brands. Loewe then changed their pilosophy to 'latest technic and best design' This concept was very sucessful and many people spent for that advantage more than 20% more money.
Loewe stands for realiabillity and quality.
The TV sets were developed and built in Germany. Changing market (many technical changes, low prices) and demograhic change in the early 2010's lead to huge problems selling the high priced Loewe products.
2013 they became insolvent. The world wide consumer electonics market made more than 10 Billons US$ loss. Even brands like Sony got problems.
Developing and building in germany was not very profitable any more due to high labor costs.
There were some approaches to sell the patents and brand name, but at least nobody believed, that Loewe could assert themself on the market any longer.
The new investor Hisense (2014) agreed to continue the production in Germany but with chinese parts. Development and Design will remain in Germany too.
And they remain true to their principles: Best technic and best design.
I think the people at B&O are dealing with the same problems.
Ralf
I just did a google map look at Kronach factory. Spooky collection of Bavarian buildings lack the charm of their B&O equivalent address. All part of the provenance that gives the brand appeal.
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
Simonbeo: I just did a google map look at Kronach factory. Spooky collection of Bavarian buildings lack the charm of their B&O equivalent address. All part of the provenance that gives the brand appeal.
The Farm is a beautiful building. The factories are amazing. Struer is a spotlessly clean town, with beautiful countryside and some wonderful little islands around it you can visit. Every time I leave Denmark, I miss the place - and the people.
Denmark is a beautiful country, and it comes as no surprise the Danes are some of the happiest people on planet earth. The factory and offices at Struer are so orderly, calm, stylish, clean and a great advert for how to run a factory.
Doesn't seem to be helping B&O at the moment though, does it...
I'd take Loewe HQ being in a damp cave three hundred metres below a sewage farm if it makes me a living!
Ralf: The new investor Hisense (2014) agreed to continue the production in Germany but with chinese parts. Development and Design will remain in Germany too.
Millemissen: vlohjr1: Is there anyway for bl18 wisa to work with the Loewe tv? Loewe has their own wireless standart via a breakout box...for their own wireless speakers. I guess you could use the DAL/breakout cable solution to a WiSa transmitter -> BL18 MM
vlohjr1: Is there anyway for bl18 wisa to work with the Loewe tv?
Is there anyway for bl18 wisa to work with the Loewe tv?
Loewe has their own wireless standart via a breakout box...for their own wireless speakers.
I guess you could use the DAL/breakout cable solution to a WiSa transmitter -> BL18
To come back on the topic of combining a Loewe with BeoLab speakers (or should I start a new thread?).
Would there be any noticeable delay using this solution? I'm very sensitive to sync problems, and I've seen terrible (Bose) setups in homes of family and friends. (And for some reason they aren't bothered by it.)The main source to be watched will be a media center (mac running kodi or plex). The same source for music: itunes playing music and airplaying to my beolit 12 in sync. I'm currently using an older amp and simple 5.1 speaker system. The mac running itunes plays through the amp and the beolit in perfect sync. Would this still be the case when the mac is feeding its sound to the Loewe, relaying it to a wisa transmitter?
Beolit 12 - Beolab 4 pc (dead now) - Beoplay H5 - Beolab 9 - BeoRemote One BT - Beoplay M3
Hi crossbytje,
If you use either the Loewe TV headphone/audio out socket (for stereo sound), or the DAL/Audiolink socket (for surround sound) to Beolab speakers via a direct cable connection, then there is no audio delay. Connecting via either of these outputs to a Transmitter 1 for a WiSA link to Beolab speakers should be almost instantaneous, with no noticeable delay.
Kind regards, Steve.
Steve.
www.soundsheavenly.com
Founder of Sounds Heavenly Cables and Brand Ambassador for Bang & Olufsen
Sounds Heavenly are proud to sponsor BeoWorld!
Please check out my YouTube channel at https://youtube.com/soundsheavenlycables
Steve at Sounds Heavenly: Hi crossbytje, If you use either the Loewe TV headphone/audio out socket (for stereo sound), or the DAL/Audiolink socket (for surround sound) to Beolab speakers via a direct cable connection, then there is no audio delay. Connecting via either of these outputs to a Transmitter 1 for a WiSA link to Beolab speakers should be almost instantaneous, with no noticeable delay. Kind regards, Steve.
I don't know if this can help but there is a parameter in the TV sound menu to adjust the sound to synchronize the lips movement with the sound for each tv channel in case of delay (-100 to +100 by steps of 10).
Great!
I'd prefer a cable connection anyway.
One concern I have left is the processing delay of the TV itself. While it may output sound in sync with the image, both could be equally delayed with respect to the source due to signal (image) processing in the TV. The potential problem is due to the source managing the AirPlay speakers, being unaware that it's outputted signal is delayed further down the road.Though I guess there is a monitor setting on all TV's minimizing input lag, which would solve this problem. This would furthermore only be a concern for music (as the 'multiroom' AirPlay speakers would not be used for watching content, only listening).
The only downside I still see is that the built-in Radio of the Loewe would not be able to feed the AirPlay speakers in other rooms, or is there a solution for this? Is there a device that takes as input the radio sound of the tv, and streams it to AirPlay speakers without delay?A workaround would be to use itunes on the mac as source for internet radio.
Living Room: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-2 (Center), Beolab 9 (Fronts), Beolab 8000 (Rears), no Subwoofer. Screen: Sony KD-85XH9096Dining Room: Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 4000 on stands, fed by Amazon Echo Show 8Home Cinema: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-4 (Center), Beolab 1 (Fronts), Beolab 4000 (Rears). Projector: Sony VPL-HW55Home Office: Beosystem 3, Beolab 7-4, Beolab 5000, Screen: Sony KD-55XH9005 on Beovision 7-40 stand, ML to Beosound 9000 MK3 and Beosound 5/Beomaster 5 (1 TB SSD version)Bedroom: Sony KD-65XH9077, Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 6002 and Beolab 11 (all white, wall-mounted)
In storage: Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000 (1960s).
kallasr:Beolabs integrate very well with Loewe TVs: Beosystem 4 with Beolab 7-6 on table stand (Center), Beolab 8000 (Fronts), Beolab 4000 (Rears) and Beolab 2. Screen: Sony 55W905A. BeoVision 4-50 HD ready (D9) with Beosystem 3 MK I with Beolab 7-2 on table stand (Center) and Loewe L1 via Beolink Passive Amp (Fronts). Beovision 7-40 MK III on motorised stand with Beolab 7-2. Beosound 9000 MK3 on horizontal wall bracket with Beolab 5000 Speakers. Beovox Cona + Beovox CX100 White with Yamaha Stereo with Bluetooth dongle for iPhone/iPad. In storage: Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000.
BeoNut since '75
elephant:And the 1st picture the BL11 really looks like a plump 🐧
I had a white BL11 and sold it. I still have a silver, which was hidden behind the BV11! The silver one is a tiny bit (visually) better.
Really funny - when I had two BL11s, no-one wanted it as a trade-in as dealers told me no-one wanted to buy one!
From what I read, Loewe is again to bankruptcy (much more severe this time) and they stopped the factory on July 1st. It was the last TV manufacturer manufacturing in Europe. B&O, if they survive, will be the only remaining high end TV option... unless if they find new investors to bring quickly fresh money or if a well know healthy brand buys the name Loewe and goes on building upper quality TVs. This is as well a dramatic event for all the employees who may loose their jobs :-( . It seems as well that aftersale service and warranty will be lost for the customers.
Their biggest problem from what I've read is they had 400 unionized workers they couldn't easily or affordably get rid of due to Germany's union laws when they actually need 100-150 workers. This bankruptcy may allow a new buyer to come along and be free of the labor union contracts and able to restart the company with a more rational number of workers, or even perhaps move production to the Czech Republic as an option.
They were apparently selling TV sets well but couldn't support the labor costs.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Shame as I think Loewe had potential to make a difference. If I wasn't such a B&O fan I would almost certainly have gone the Loewe route, but B&O always won me over. Simon.