ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
@Puncher
What would you suggest as a name for that tv, then?
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: @Puncher What would you suggest as a name for that tv, then? MM
I could ask why it needs a name at all, given that it doesn't fall under the Beovision umbrella!
I don't really care other than I don't believe it should be called or sold as something it very clearly isn't.
Would you be equally happy buying a BMW only to find out it was a rebadged Hyundai with a souped-up sound system?
Ban boring signatures!
I really hope that B&O comes with an update of the Eclipse so that it will be possible to control BS9k and have functionality that enables the Eclipse to be part of a multiroom setup with other ML devices. They might as well come with a new "Eclipse" set that has such features, or a new ML/NL box that provides backward multiroom compatibility. If not, all the B&O owners like me will have to searh for second hand upgrades, or go for the outgoing Beovision models (Avant, 11, 14). We were so keen on purchasing the new 65" Eclipse, but now we're in a limbo for options...
BV Eclipse 65, BV5, BS Core, BL5, BL8000, BS9000, Beolit 12, A1, A2, P2, H8, H9i, H7, E8
Beovision 11-55, BeoPlay V1 40, Beosound 9000, Beolab 8000's and 3 Beocom 5's...
BeoET:I really hope that B&O comes with an update of the Eclipse so that it will be possible to control BS9k and have functionality that enables the Eclipse to be part of a multiroom setup with other ML devices. They might as well come with a new "Eclipse" set that has such features, or a new ML/NL box that provides backward multiroom compatibility. If not, all the B&O owners like me will have to searh for second hand upgrades, or go for the outgoing Beovision models (Avant, 11, 14). We were so keen on purchasing the new 65" Eclipse, but now we're in a limbo for options...
mjmedlo:I feel confident multitoom will come. That's a B&O standard. Just has to be implemented.
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
Hanschristian:My 65 Eclipse is ordered but has not arrived yet. It will sit between my beolab 90s. I traded my 55 avant at decent a price nd can't wait.
Razlaw: Hanschristian: My 65 Eclipse is ordered but has not arrived yet. It will sit between my beolab 90s. I traded my 55 avant at decent a price nd can't wait. Sounds beautiful! Looking forward to pictures. And looking forward to November when my US dealer will have the Eclipse so I can see it in person.
Hanschristian: My 65 Eclipse is ordered but has not arrived yet. It will sit between my beolab 90s. I traded my 55 avant at decent a price nd can't wait.
My 65 Eclipse is ordered but has not arrived yet. It will sit between my beolab 90s. I traded my 55 avant at decent a price nd can't wait.
Sounds beautiful! Looking forward to pictures. And looking forward to November when my US dealer will have the Eclipse so I can see it in person.
Assuming you still have a dealer by November.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Jeff:Assuming you still have a dealer by November. Jeff Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!
Reg Multiroom; what's not working at the moment is the ability to control old ML devices. The newer digital B&O devices work fine. As far as I know, all previous Beovisions are able to connect to (through NL/ML converters) and control the old ML devices (BS9000, BS3200 etc).
Michael: Hiort:Picked up the following intel: - B&O will come with GUI improvements. - Electronic curtain will come - The soundbar include image processing for the sources that are connected through the soundbar connections. So there are If this is true or not we will see. Hopefully they have been realizing that people don't like this Frankenstein experience and mismatching menues etc. if they can tailor it to an optimal B&O setup well then that's a good thing. I believe it when I see it. And, if the soundbar includes image processing - then it would sell like hot cakes without a panel too. It's not just a soundbar then but a beosystem 5 with speakers and a very tiny form factor compared to older editions. I'd almost rather prefer to buy one separately. Mount it on a wall and a tv above. Why not also introduce a BeoStand with vesa mount? Would open for a world of ideas. The speaker could be designed as a Beovision 7 speaker. Maybe that's next. We surely won't see just one TV in the model spectrum from now on right?
Hiort:Picked up the following intel: - B&O will come with GUI improvements. - Electronic curtain will come - The soundbar include image processing for the sources that are connected through the soundbar connections. So there are
- B&O will come with GUI improvements.
- Electronic curtain will come
- The soundbar include image processing for the sources that are connected through the soundbar connections. So there are
If this is true or not we will see. Hopefully they have been realizing that people don't like this Frankenstein experience and mismatching menues etc. if they can tailor it to an optimal B&O setup well then that's a good thing. I believe it when I see it.
And, if the soundbar includes image processing - then it would sell like hot cakes without a panel too. It's not just a soundbar then but a beosystem 5 with speakers and a very tiny form factor compared to older editions.
I'd almost rather prefer to buy one separately. Mount it on a wall and a tv above. Why not also introduce a BeoStand with vesa mount? Would open for a world of ideas. The speaker could be designed as a Beovision 7 speaker.
Maybe that's next. We surely won't see just one TV in the model spectrum from now on right?
A separate Beo SoundCenter under an optional TV panel ...... Then we're on our way.
I agree. The startup is very important for a B&O tv. Without it , it's an LG.
It should also have a striking theme to the design which can be described very briefly by a non designer who's seen it once. As above. The Eclipse is very disappointing for these reasons.
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
I didn't have the courage to say that either at the recent dealer launch I was kindly invited to.
BeoET:Reg Multiroom; what's not working at the moment is the ability to control old ML devices. The newer digital B&O devices work fine. As far as I know, all previous Beovisions are able to connect to (through NL/ML converters) and control the old ML devices (BS9000, BS3200 etc).
Simonbeo: I agree. The startup is very important for a B&O tv. Without it , it's an LG. It should also have a striking theme to the design which can be described very briefly by a non designer who's seen it once. As above. The Eclipse is very disappointing for these reasons.
It is amazing (at least to me) how two minor features can disqualify a new tv from Bang & Olufsen.
One of these I never even see on my pre-Eclipse BV - having turned off the energy savings for the time, when the tv is mostly used.
Ok, the curtains are nice, for sure - but I could live without them and new custumers will hardly miss them.
Here is (some of) what (at least to me) makes the BV Eclipse a new BeoVision.....in daily life.
If you don't like the new direct buttons, just stick to the previous version:
https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/collection/apps-and-accessories/beoremote-one
BeoGreg:Not to mention a menu that look like that.
That has been gone for 2-3 years now - didn't you notice that before!
P.S. By the way: why use the Camera button/command for NetRadio?
Seems a bit odd, when you have a spare Radio button.
Millemissen:That has been gone for 2-3 years now - didn't you notice that before! P.S. By the way: why use the Camera button/command for NetRadio? Seems a bit odd, when you have a spare Radio button. MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Millemissen: If you don't like the new direct buttons, just stick to the previous version: https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/collection/apps-and-accessories/beoremote-one
Honestly - when we are talking 'more than11.000 €', how much would the 250 € matter....
....if you simply can't live with the new buttons?
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
Millemissen: One of these I never even see on my pre-Eclipse BV - having turned off the energy savings for the time, when the tv is mostly used.
Millemissen:Honestly - when we are talking 'more than11.000 €', how much would the 250 € matter.... ....if you simply can't live with the new buttons? MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Well, I am just trying to understand that B&O had to choose the cooperation with LG in order to be able to offer a new tv to B&O-interested costumers.
I have no intention to understand, whether you want to keep your old tv or if you want to get a new from Bang & Olufsen - that is your personal choice.
Personally I would not hesitate spending the 'extra' 250 €, if I disliked the new controller - that is, if I could not make it part of the deal....
....and that is seriously meant ;-)
Millemissen hoping for returns from his B & O shares, buys no Beovision Eclipse TV, is doing well with the BeoPlay V1.That's just how it is. I know him quite well.
I shall post as soon as it is received which should be 2nd week of October.
Maybe the next "BeoVision" is simply a more generic Eclipse SoundCentre, where you can dock (almost) any given 55" or 65" screen (Samsung, LG) - you may loose the motor aspect unless they can dock it and make it stiff enough at the same time to tolerate movement.
I have to agree that the little details are important to a BeoVision (curtain, menu, start up/shut down). But to me the picture experts in Struer made the difference with their VisionClear technology, that was the core of a BeoVision to me - from the early light sensors to the advanced color sensing ones of late. Now, the VisionClear is gone - no matter how how you sell it. And it is an LG screen sitting on top of a BeoCenter or BeoSound product. Sure, they included the Core to make it "multiroom" compatible - but that´s about it. The sound is good, but no upgrade from the Avant with its speaker setup including a up/rear facing subwoofer.
I guess we just have to accept that the VisionClear days of sublime tv products from Struer are long gone. B&O is now a speaker company, and that is where they make money. There is a reason why Apple cancelled their TV plans - it is extremely difficult to stand out with top notch picture quality and design products and make a profit.
Roger
I think many of the reactions surround B&O Beovisions having set their standards very high and the expectations are you should not have to accept less for a new product at the price point they've set. If you want to offer a little less of the 'bells and whistles', than you did in the past, you should be able to point to the price as the concession - "if we included that, we'd have to set our prince to unacceptable levels". It just feels like B&O wants to have their cake and eat it too. That's not bad, any business needs to minimize cost and maximize profit, but there should not really be excuses at this price point. When you set the price this high, the look, operation, and experience should be exemplary, and it seem to fall short in many people's view. I agree that final judgment should be reserved until you actually see and experience one in person.
Dom
2x BeoSystem 3, BeoSystem 5000, BeoSystem 6500, 2x BeoMaster 7000, 2 pair of BeoLab Penta mk2, AV 7000, Beolab 4000, BeoSound 4000, Playmaker, BeoLab 2500, S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-50, C-75, 3x CX-100, 3x MCL2 link rooms, 3x Beolab 2000, M3, P2, Earset, A8 earphones, A3, 2x 4001 relay, H3, H3 ANC, H6, 2014 Audi S5 with B&O sound, and ambio
As I have said, I was waiting to see the Eclipse in reality before I decided if it had that exemplary quality. I have and as was said before I'd have to be sold the product. Really it should have a "pull" rather than needing to be "pushed" at the people who look at it, to use the marketing vernacular.
I'd be interested to see the designs Torsten Valeur and his David Lewis designers have done for the suppliers of the panel. The suppliers name and proprietary interfaces come up too much in a demo for the TV to maintain a B&O integrity.
Imagine if this was an LG-Branded TV instead of a "Beovision".
LG Eclipse - "Powered by Bang & Olufsen" ("Powered" came to mind first and it's not the best word - but you get the concept).
At 10K, the B&O sound center would be a digestible premium over the normal LG offering. They would sell this by the hundreds on day one.
Instead, the lack of the standard Beovision features in the same B&O branded TV, at the same price, diminishes the product for us long-time customers.
Marcello: At 10K, the B&O sound center would be a digestible premium over the normal LG offering. They would sell this by the hundreds on day one.
You think? I'm really not sure you understand the "masses" if you believe this would cause hundreds of sales. Two reasons:
1) Most people I know think spending £800 on a soundbar to be a tonne of cash. Seriously. That's expensive for the average consumer. The soundbar premium on top of the regular LG TV is around £5000 excluding floor stand. You can now pick up the LG 55" OLED for £2300 in the UK. So you're saying there's a tonne of people out there willing to pay a £5000 privilege for improved sound?
2) That people know/care about Bang & Olufsen. Remember the average consumer sees B&O as the Rolls Royce of audio - but not necessarily in a good way. The belief out there is that the brand is for silly people with silly money. Putting a B&O soundbar on an LG TV and pushing it out as "LG featuring B&O" really won't result in a huge upturn in sales.
Always interesting how people see the market, the average consumer, what they are willing to spend as a "digestible premium".
Marcello:At 10K, the B&O sound center would be a digestible premium over the normal LG offering. They would sell this by the hundreds on day one.
Really.... ???
You think there are hundreds of people who buy the LG branded products at 5 digit prices. I do not think so. In fact, LG's current signature line has sound bar from harmon Kardon (Not in the B&O league but a respected name) and they struggle to sell those higher priced products. LG's biggest success is in the B/C/E models where the price / value proposition is well balanced.
On the other hand, I would have easily paid the asking price for B&O if the product was truly and fully thought our B&O product.
Since we are on the Brand perception / value proposition discussion, I have no issue with Loewe asking price as I do see the product is a full blown effort by Loewe and the prices are well matched with the value proposition.
moxxey: Marcello: At 10K, the B&O sound center would be a digestible premium over the normal LG offering. They would sell this by the hundreds on day one. You think? I'm really not sure you understand the "masses" if you believe this would cause hundreds of sales. Two reasons: 1) Most people I know think spending £800 on a soundbar to be a tonne of cash. Seriously. That's expensive for the average consumer. The soundbar premium on top of the regular LG TV is around £5000 excluding floor stand. You can now pick up the LG 55" OLED for £2300 in the UK. So you're saying there's a tonne of people out there willing to pay a £5000 privilege for improved sound? Always interesting how people see the market, the average consumer, what they are willing to spend as a "digestible premium".
True, until you consider it as a simple soundbar. If you market it the proper way, explaining exactly what the sound center does (AVR/Decoder, Wisa, PUC etc.) then it's a different story. How much do you pay for a powerful AVR+Speakers+ a solution to hide everything? I don't think you'd be far off the Eclipse price.
My point was that a B&O component adds more to the value of an LG product, rather than the opposite, which happened with the "Beovision". But this is just my opinion.
Millemissen: Simonbeo: I agree. The startup is very important for a B&O tv. Without it , it's an LG. It should also have a striking theme to the design which can be described very briefly by a non designer who's seen it once. As above. The Eclipse is very disappointing for these reasons. It is amazing (at least to me) how two minor features can disqualify a new tv from Bang & Olufsen. One of these I never even see on my pre-Eclipse BV - having turned off the energy savings for the time, when the tv is mostly used. Ok, the curtains are nice, for sure - but I could live without them and new custumers will hardly miss them. Here is (some of) what (at least to me) makes the BV Eclipse a new BeoVision.....in daily life. If you don't like the new direct buttons, just stick to the previous version: https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/collection/apps-and-accessories/beoremote-one MM
A remote control with Netflix and Amazon buttons? No way. Netflix and Amazon would have to be paying for the remote, and B&O would have to offer a change if either service was terminated or taken over and rebranded. Might as well add some Tesco or Walmart shopping buttons while they are at it.......
Graham
Hi, just a thougt about the "value" proposition regarding the Eclipse.
If we remember the Beovision 12-65 and cost of this one:
Beosystem 4: about 35.000 SEK
The screen 65 inch with mono loudspeaker: 100.000 SEK.
If we talk about value proposition in this case what do you think about paying 100.000 SEK just for a Pionner plasma-screen with a center-loudspeaker?
Of course the System 4 is made by B&O but I think this TV (if we want to value this) is very expensive/overpriced also.
So, I think all talk about that the Eclipse is to expensive is just because this is the first time that B&O tell the customer that one piece of the TV is LG and one piece is B&O. Before B&O never mentionded any other companys that they co-operate with.
NEW! Beovision Eclipse 65 2nd generation (G1) with floorstand (from STB Brackets), Beolab 50 front, Beolab 3 rear, 2 x Beoplay A6 linkrooms, 2xBeoremote one BT, Beosound 9000 Mark III (sw 3.4), Beosound 5 (for DLNA only), Philips Hue (all lights in the home), Oppo UDP-203, Apple TV 4K (2021 model). Beoremote HALO, 3xBeoplay Charging pad, Beoplay M5
Yes i think thats right up to a point.
We all knew the price of the Pioneer or Panasonic top end panel that was more or less used in the 12-65, so you could just as easily work out what you were paying for on top. So in that sense, we've been here before broadly in transparency terms.
The difference between then and now is that that extra premium got you, what does people call, the B&O experience, whether that be elegant user interface and image processing, and so felt like an enhanced experience (yes the centre speaker won't compare well to the Elcipse, i know)
I thin thats where the issue is for some people - even my dealer, when he showed me the Eclipse for the first time when he got it, his first words were "it just feels like you're using an LG".
But that is where we are, and likely to be.