ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
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Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.
Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.
What you would call fair is not important. The dealer is already struggling to break even so will want as much as possible for his demo stock.
Have you not noticed that B&O dealers are closing faster than village pubs!
Regards Graham
It depends what are you buying tv?,music system? speakers? .Tvs suffers the biggest depreciations imho depends which one?,but like every thingelse depends what the dealer paid for the item trade in ? desperate sellers etc👀
seethroughyou:Does anyone have an idea of what the trade price is for items bought by dealers from B&O? The dealer then adds on their margin to pay for rent, utilities, staff fees etc... I'm trying to work out what a fair depreciation is on a used item without upsetting the dealer.
Two things I'd point out here: 1) the dealer makes a relatively small margin compared to other industries. I don't think it's much more than 30% 2) you can't work out a "fair depreciation" yourself as that's the dealers call. If he makes an offer, you choose to accept. If you don't, look for another avenue for selling the product.
The simple fact here is the B&O products do not have a 'fair depreciation' like they did even 5 years ago. Sadly it's far from fair now. You'd be very lucky to receive 30% of the original price, in my experience.
Remember the dealer has to account for VAT on purchasing/selling pre-loved items, too. Consumers often forget about this - when the dealer buys a TV from B&O, they can claim the VAT back. When they buy from an individual, there's no reclaimable VAT and then if they sell to a pre-loved company (such as Lee's LifeStyle), they have to deal with the VAT element as both companies are VAT registered.
So, taking the UK's VAT rate into account, that's 20% of the cost taken up just from the VAT component.
joeyboygolf:What you would call fair is not important. The dealer is already struggling to break even so will want as much as possible for his demo stock. Have you not noticed that B&O dealers are closing faster than village pubs! Regards Graham
moxxey:Two things I'd point out here: 1) the dealer makes a relatively small margin compared to other industries. I don't think it's much more than 30% 2) you can't work out a "fair depreciation" yourself as that's the dealers call. If he makes an offer, you choose to accept. If you don't, look for another avenue for selling the product. The simple fact here is the B&O products do not have a 'fair depreciation' like they did even 5 years ago. Sadly it's far from fair now. You'd be very lucky to receive 30% of the original price, in my experience. Remember the dealer has to account for VAT on purchasing/selling pre-loved items, too. Consumers often forget about this - when the dealer buys a TV from B&O, they can claim the VAT back. When they buy from an individual, there's no reclaimable VAT and then if they sell to a pre-loved company (such as Lee's LifeStyle), they have to deal with the VAT element as both companies are VAT registered. So, taking the UK's VAT rate into account, that's 20% of the cost taken up just from the VAT component.
seethroughyou: moxxey: Two things I'd point out here: 1) the dealer makes a relatively small margin compared to other industries. I don't think it's much more than 30% 2) you can't work out a "fair depreciation" yourself as that's the dealers call. If he makes an offer, you choose to accept. If you don't, look for another avenue for selling the product. The simple fact here is the B&O products do not have a 'fair depreciation' like they did even 5 years ago. Sadly it's far from fair now. You'd be very lucky to receive 30% of the original price, in my experience. Remember the dealer has to account for VAT on purchasing/selling pre-loved items, too. Consumers often forget about this - when the dealer buys a TV from B&O, they can claim the VAT back. When they buy from an individual, there's no reclaimable VAT and then if they sell to a pre-loved company (such as Lee's LifeStyle), they have to deal with the VAT element as both companies are VAT registered. So, taking the UK's VAT rate into account, that's 20% of the cost taken up just from the VAT component. Thanks moxxey, that's a detailed reply and quite a few things for me to consider. I'm after a win win situation that works for me as customer and the dealer. I'm not trying to take the **** and appreciate he has to put food on the table for his/her family. The VAT explanation was especially helpful and something to factor into the soft negotiations.
moxxey: Two things I'd point out here: 1) the dealer makes a relatively small margin compared to other industries. I don't think it's much more than 30% 2) you can't work out a "fair depreciation" yourself as that's the dealers call. If he makes an offer, you choose to accept. If you don't, look for another avenue for selling the product. The simple fact here is the B&O products do not have a 'fair depreciation' like they did even 5 years ago. Sadly it's far from fair now. You'd be very lucky to receive 30% of the original price, in my experience. Remember the dealer has to account for VAT on purchasing/selling pre-loved items, too. Consumers often forget about this - when the dealer buys a TV from B&O, they can claim the VAT back. When they buy from an individual, there's no reclaimable VAT and then if they sell to a pre-loved company (such as Lee's LifeStyle), they have to deal with the VAT element as both companies are VAT registered. So, taking the UK's VAT rate into account, that's 20% of the cost taken up just from the VAT component.
Thanks moxxey, that's a detailed reply and quite a few things for me to consider. I'm after a win win situation that works for me as customer and the dealer. I'm not trying to take the **** and appreciate he has to put food on the table for his/her family. The VAT explanation was especially helpful and something to factor into the soft negotiations.
What are you looking to buy - I'll let you know if I think the price is reasonable...
seethroughyou: ....and then holds on to it for years and when approached only offers 10% off a TV that was end of line several years ago.
....and then holds on to it for years and when approached only offers 10% off a TV that was end of line several years ago.
Hmmm.... I see both points of view here, and it has frustrated me too - many times.
I've had numerous occasions when I've walked into a B&O Dealership and asked them if they wanted to offload a demo product which is old model, or discontinued.
I've offered the 'pre-owned' trade price, and had a look as if I was holding them up at gunpoint. My reply was usually along the lines of "well, you can let it go now whilst it's still worth something - or you can still be staring at it in 2-3 years when it's worth nothing.."
On the flip side, though, the dealer isn't in business to make a loss - and some people have trouble letting things go for less than they paid.
When I was in the motor trade, getting rid of a vehicle for a loss, for the greater good, was called "wiping your mouth". It always hurt - but you could replace it with something else you could make a profit on, then you'd be back to square one and could move on from there. The next deal, you'd be back in profit - or the other scenario could be staring at the same car you'd had for a year, with the same minimal chances of selling...
Lee
9 LEE: I've offered the 'pre-owned' trade price, and had a look as if I was holding them up at gunpoint. My reply was usually along the lines of "well, you can let it go now whilst it's still worth something - or you can still be staring at it in 2-3 years when it's worth nothing.."
This is very true and a reason why the old (original) Bath store went bust. They accepted nearly anything and gave known customers a very decent price. Problem is, they were then lumbered with a tonne of stock and it built up and up. I remember going out back and seeing about 10 TVs and questioning why they had so many....for them to answer "this isn't even a 1/4 of the pre-loved stock, you want to see what's in the basement". A sure sign of issues to follow.
I have excellent memories of my old Bath dealer offering me such a decent trade-in for a 2-year-old TV that it's somewhat warped my view of B&O! I'd get a BV7, go back to him two years later and he'd often give me at least 50% of the original price. Often more. I'd then only have to find £2000 towards a new TV - so effectively I had "rented" a brand new BV7 from him for two years for only £1xx/month.
This must have lasted around 6 years or so, with me going back every two years and getting the latest model!
I had a couple of dealings with the Bath B&o on Pulteney Bridge, really nice folk to deal with.:)
You'll have trouble dealing with them now... they're long gone!
Bath still does have a store though, and it's actually a really lovely building. Not great for parking, and you'll need to be fit if you're walking up from the town centre - but it's on a corner and is really quirky in the layout. I like it.
seethroughyou:Well, it seems like negotiations have probably broken down as no reply from the dealer so rather than pick up the phone and battle out a price we can agree on with me, he's just not bothering to reply. We seem to have lost the art/thirst for negotiation - Brexit Beware.
Why has this got anything to do with Brexit?!
Many dealers stopped wanting trade-ins years ago and, where they do accept trade-ins, they offer very low rates. If you wait then you're likely to get an even worse deal, not better.
seethroughyou:Not after a trade in. I'm trying to buy their used/demo stock.
Oh I thought you were trying to trade something against an old product. Still confused why this has anything to do with Brexit?
In my experience, dealers only offer 10-15% off their demo stock.
seethroughyou:Well, it seems like negotiations have probably broken down as no reply from the dealer so rather than pick up the phone and battle out a price we can agree on with me, he's just not bothering to reply. We seem to have lost the art/thirst for negotiation -
Duels:Clearly he is not interested in the price you want to pay. He doesnt have to sell you this stuff with respect. He also doesn't have to "negotiate" just because you want him to. If you can find the same stuff cheaper elsewhere buy it. If you can't that probably tells you all you need to know.
seethroughyou: Duels: Clearly he is not interested in the price you want to pay. He doesnt have to sell you this stuff with respect. He also doesn't have to "negotiate" just because you want him to. If you can find the same stuff cheaper elsewhere buy it. If you can't that probably tells you all you need to know. Yes, he doesn't have to negotiate but it might lead to a deal eventually or even a future sale on something else that's new. Yes, he doesn't even have bother to take the effort out of courtesy to call me though it might build a good customer relationship for the future. He doesn't even have to get out of bed or open his store. All quite right. What he doesn't have to do and what he might like to try to do can be very different things in the land of good business. You're right, I should go somewhere else - it's not that we can't agree on the price or that he won't sell it to me that annoys me - he's absolutely at liberty not to accept, if he doesn't see the right figure but it's the lack of a 60 second phone call from a store that I know gets very little footfall and is far from busy is something I find disheartening and disappointing. We've talked about common courtesy and what makes/breaks customer care. Even if I have to say no or decline something, no matter what, I always reply and take time to respond. You never know what can be round he corner in the world of business opportunities and networking. Sad state of affairs. This is just one example but this has also happened in other dealers, when I've called about a new product asking to fix a time to come in for a demo or shown interest in buying something new with no intention of requesting a discount of any kind but yet again they take your number but never call back. How times have changed...
Duels: Clearly he is not interested in the price you want to pay. He doesnt have to sell you this stuff with respect. He also doesn't have to "negotiate" just because you want him to. If you can find the same stuff cheaper elsewhere buy it. If you can't that probably tells you all you need to know.
Clearly he is not interested in the price you want to pay. He doesnt have to sell you this stuff with respect. He also doesn't have to "negotiate" just because you want him to.
If you can find the same stuff cheaper elsewhere buy it. If you can't that probably tells you all you need to know.
Yes, he doesn't have to negotiate but it might lead to a deal eventually or even a future sale on something else that's new. Yes, he doesn't even have bother to take the effort out of courtesy to call me though it might build a good customer relationship for the future. He doesn't even have to get out of bed or open his store. All quite right. What he doesn't have to do and what he might like to try to do can be very different things in the land of good business. You're right, I should go somewhere else - it's not that we can't agree on the price or that he won't sell it to me that annoys me - he's absolutely at liberty not to accept, if he doesn't see the right figure but it's the lack of a 60 second phone call from a store that I know gets very little footfall and is far from busy is something I find disheartening and disappointing. We've talked about common courtesy and what makes/breaks customer care. Even if I have to say no or decline something, no matter what, I always reply and take time to respond. You never know what can be round he corner in the world of business opportunities and networking. Sad state of affairs. This is just one example but this has also happened in other dealers, when I've called about a new product asking to fix a time to come in for a demo or shown interest in buying something new with no intention of requesting a discount of any kind but yet again they take your number but never call back. How times have changed...
Maybe you should try a proactive dealer - hint,hint 😀