ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
So Duane (Note 1) comes by today with a pair of Redlines. I've been hoping to find a pair of 60.2's to refurbish and put in the garage with a Frankensystem (Note 2) until I find a stacking system to match them with (Note 3). When he opened the trunk (Note 4) I thought maybe I'd get lucky, but alas, they were RL 60's Type 6503.
I explained to Duane they probably weren't worth the $50 he paid for them because of the foam rot problem with the ABR I read so much about on the old site (Note 5). I picked one up and shook it to show Duane, but wait a minute, no rattling sound.
I picked up the other, shook it, no rattling sound again! What do we have here? A fixed pair? But which fix?
A home brew refoam? A refoam by a professional, perhaps even Martin himself? A conversion to the bass reflex? Mike Cason's conversion with passive radiators?
Below is what one of the fronts looks like. They are dusty and need new cloth. But no scratches or dents. No accessories either, except for the small metal "lean on the floor" attachment.
Note 1. Duane works for me and makes just as much money on the side buying and selling at flea markets and on Ebay. I've bought about a thousand records from him in the last year for less than $200.
Note 2. The Frankensystem is currently NAD 7175PE (love this receiver), BG RX2 w/ MMC4, BC3300, Beovox S40, and some very cheap Magnavox DVD player. Used to have Beosystem 1900 in there with second pair of M70s, but the M70s were removed for a Top Secret Project.
Note 3. Probably a 5500.
Note 4. "Trunk" = "boot"
Note 5. I remember one thread - think it was Leslie's - where Gunther complimented the refurbisher on the fabric by slamming my psychedelic M70 grills/frets. once again.
And the back. Apart from being dirty, they look OK. Better than almost all my speakers when I got them, except maybe my S45-2s.
And finally, the inside.
Which fix? NONE! Someone must have opened them up, removed the steel plate of the old ABR, and closed them back up! Without bothering to remove all the rotted foam!
So - do I tell Duane, "Thanks, but no thanks." Or do I have a go a refurbishing these?
1, Duane ask for an increase of your salary,
2. Secret Project, pics or it didn't happen
3. Love my 5000 stack
4 Trunk/Boot, place to store golf bag and remains from last years picnic.
5. I think it was about my redline Beovox 3702, and he didn't like mine either
, nice to see you got something to do again.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Oh man, my hands are itching when I see this. It looks like the RL60's has this ABR and the RL60.2 not? I did these a while ago and posted a thread on the old forum.
Brengen & Ophalen
Rich:So - do I tell Duane, "Thanks, but no thanks." Or do I have a go a refurbishing these?
Winter is coming, so why not refurbish them, with the help from Leslie nothing can go wrong, and you will need them for the 5500 pizza boxes.
I can find a pair of ABR plates in the dungeons if you need but I suppose postage would be a bit steep.
Martin
Beside Rich's obvious kick in my a$$
This is an insight of some RL60's I've got.
There must have been a retrofit kit to replace the ABR with those tube plates. I think Leslie even had the number...
Gunther
EDIT 1: The 2 RL60 plastic stripes are missing
EDIT2: Still not a fan of those grills
hemenex:There must have been a retrofit kit to replace the ABR with those tube plates. I think Leslie even had the number...
Yes there was. I believe that from all the cures to the broken ABRs, that would be easiest and cheapest to remanufacture. I guess all you would need is the location of the reflex hole and the lenght & cross-sectional area of the tube, and it would be close enough to sound reasonable?
--mika
Søren Mexico: 1, Duane ask for an increase of your salary,
I am Duane's boss at a metal fabrication shop, and unfortunately, I have no say whatsoever in what he is paid. I wasn't really making a comment on how LITTLE he makes working for me, but rather how MUCH he makes selling things on Ebay. He once bought a pair of Magneplanars for $100 at an estate sale and later sold them on Ebay for $800. That's a typical day's work for Duane with his "side" job.
Søren Mexico: 2. Secret Project, pics or it didn't happen
The Secret Project is still in the planning stages and so there are no pics. Yet.
Soren Mexico: 3. Love my 5000 stack
A B&O stack has been my "dream system" since about 1990 when I saw an MCP in operation at Hi-Fi Buys in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
Soren Mexico: , nice to see you got something to do again.
Well, I have been keeping busy. Lots of new records, built a new rack for the Beosystem 2400, built a pair of speakers that utilize some modified Fostex full range drivers, etc. Just stuff that doesn't interest the broader community here.
Leslie: Oh man, my hands are itching when I see this. It looks like the RL60's has this ABR and the RL60.2 not? I did these a while ago and posted a thread on the old forum.
I spent a bit of time yesterday looking through the old forum. Many pictures gone, lots of broken links. This picture is great, showing the ABR metal plate. I work at a metal fabrication shop - why can't I reproduce a facsimile of the ABR?
Søren Mexico: Rich:So - do I tell Duane, "Thanks, but no thanks." Or do I have a go a refurbishing these? Winter is coming, so why not refurbish them, with the help from Leslie nothing can go wrong, and you will need them for the 5500 pizza boxes.
Oh, I think I've talked myself into keeping them, if for no other reason than "to save them from the skip."
hemenex: Beside Rich's obvious kick in my a$ This is an insight of some RL60's I've got. There must have been a retrofit kit to replace the ABR with those tube plates. I think Leslie even had the number... Gunther EDIT 1: The 2 RL60 plastic stripes are missing EDIT2: Still not a fan of those grills
Beside Rich's obvious kick in my a$
Great picture! I can probably figure out everything about the retrofit bass reflex solution from this photo.
And yes, there are only three fans of the M70 grills: me, my wife, and possibly Soren Mexico.
But all this ribbing and counter-ribbing is in good fun, right?
Dillen: I can find a pair of ABR plates in the dungeons if you need but I suppose postage would be a bit steep. Martin
Those engine parts I sent to you were about $50 going from here to there. Surely it wouldn't cost nearly that much to go from there to here? Weren't those engine parts about 10kg or more?
tournedos: hemenex:There must have been a retrofit kit to replace the ABR with those tube plates. I think Leslie even had the number... Yes there was. I believe that from all the cures to the broken ABRs, that would be easiest and cheapest to remanufacture. I guess all you would need is the location of the reflex hole and the lenght & cross-sectional area of the tube, and it would be close enough to sound reasonable?
Easy and cheap aren't necessarily required. What I don't want to do is spend the time, energy, and money to fix a product that isn't worth fixing. So far, I haven't come across anything to lead me to believe the RL60 was a poor product. On the contrary - most folks that fixed them and reported back on their sound were quite pleased.
So the question becomes, which fix? It seems the options include:
1) Find a B&O produced retrofit kit somewhere (bass reflex conversion)
2) Produce a facsimile of the retrofit kit (bass reflex conversion)
3) Get a repaired set of ABRs from Martin if he indeed finds some in his dungeon
4) Source a set of ABRs here in the states
5) Produce a facsimile of the ABRs using materials and equipment where I work
6) Try Mike Cason's retrofit of two 5.25" passive radiators per cabinet (the PRs are still available at Madisound for about $10 each)
I'm not as big on "keeping things original" as some others are, so I'm game to experiment. Perhaps in the end I'll try multiple fixes.
Rich:Those engine parts I sent to you were about $50 going from here to there. Surely it wouldn't cost nearly that much to go from there to here? Weren't those engine parts about 10kg or more?
Postages can be a strange thing. When I bought my RL60.2s from Germany, the seller apparently paid around 20 euros, and the speakers were delivered to my door (the norm over here is that you have to pick up incoming parcels from somewhere). If I wanted to send the same kind of package out, I would pay about that much for similar service inside Finland, and about three times as much back to Germany!
Regarding the real problem at hand... sounds like you have already talked yourself into repairing the speakers
They should be worth it. Recap the crossover while you're at it - it made a huge difference with my RL60.2s, I wouldn't have believed it.
True but the danish postal rates are ridiculous.
I decided to pass on this particular pair.
I did a bit more due diligence on the inside (e.g., measuring the DC resistance of each of the drivers) and outside....
And there were just too many live and dead spiders! Now if that's not a sign of neglect, I don't know what is.
And a couple missing screws...
And a missing plastic triangle that holds down the straps....
And no stands....
And the Fabric Selector was not impressed....
And they aren't 60.2's....
And I just finally said that's too many "ands"....
Oh, well. Another project will present itself soon enough.
4 years too late but the Mike Cason twin passive rad solution kicks butt.. I did it on my rl60 and replaced caps with solens polycaps and the performance is way better than all the rl60.2 I have ever had pass through my shed.
I'm no speaker designer unlike Mike but I know he was not a fan of the tuned hassling as it did not maintain air pressure in the cabinet and made the other drivers work harder as a result .
All I know is the twin tippany rads I imported from the states sound bloody good compared to the bass port.
I still have 4 rads left but I don't want to waste them on the rl45's I currently have in the shed:)
Auto correct strikes again :)
tuned bass port not "hassling"
i imported the rads from Madisound, got stung for import duty :(
Beosound 9000 MK III, Beosound Century, Beogram 5005, Beolab 8000, Beolab 5000, Beolab 4000, Beolab 5, Beovision 8, Beovision 10, Beovision 5, Beoplay A2, Beoplay E8, Beoplay H6.
where did you find these ABR correction plates?