Observations on CD/Vinyl vs Streaming

I recently bought a Core and streaming from Deezer is a pleasure with browsing and trying new music but it has turned my listening session into the ADHD of skipping tracks. Before Millemissen says anything, yes yes I know nobody’s forcing me to tap and change tracks on my iPad but it’s harder not to as a lot of tablet type devices are tapped away at all day long on the commute or at work. The ability to explore anything and everything, at the tap of a finger, is great yet I feel a significant loss, so much so that I switched from Deezer to Vinyl and CD tonight. You don’t interfere with the the music player as it entails getting up. The experience of the album (especially with classical music) is so much more satisfying. A Beogram CD7000 (without remote capability as no Beomaster) will shortly join my Beogram 7000 record player - little opportunity to skip tracks. Reminds me of my more wholesome youth of listening from start to finish. I’m wondering if I should ditch the Deezer in coming months...

What has your experience been?

Are you a lover of the new streaming services?

Do you feel you’ve lost something by moving on from CD/Vinyl?

Have any of you moved back to physical formats?

'Before Millemissen says anything....'

Although you seem to know what I would say, i'll say it anyway:

It certainly requires a bit of learning (and discipline) to deal with the possibilities of streaming from a source like Deezer.

It is up to you whether you want to benefit from it or not!

But it sure is doable ;-)

Have a good time listening to the music - from any source - on your new speakers.

MM

I remember the days when I listened to Vinyl and CD's and could remember which track was coming next. Something special about listening to music in the order the artist wanted you to hear it. 

I have never owned a B&O turntable. I know I could probably buy an amazing modern day turntable but there is something special about the beograms from the 70's, 80's & 90's but which one? A little research tells me that the 4000 is possibly the choice of the purest. Then comes the question of where should I buy it or who could restore it? 

I would be interested to hear what you think of the Beogram 7000 or hear from anyone else with Beogram buying advice. 

I recognize your dilemma. Earlier today I was listening to radio, and learned that there’s someone called Arianne Savall (Jordi’s daughter). I’ve been spending most of the evening on Spotify and YouTube listening to related music. Although most of it is heavenly, I rarely have the patience to listen any of the songs through, because I can’t wait to find out what’s behind the next link. This has been fun, but also left me thinking how much more relaxing it might have been to just have one album to listen from end to end.

It is somewhat like being in restaurant with a buffet, all inclusive...

.....and wanting to eat all or a bit of everything.

It won't do you good - and you have to learn to eat what you need and nothing more.

For some this will be harder than for others.

If you don't succeeed, the only option is to avoid this kind of restaurants.

You decide - are you or the buffet (read: possibilities of new technologies) in charge?

MM

 

 

And the very reason i bought a turntable a few years ago.

I've always listened to a lot of music at home, as well as on the go, but in recent years i found listening to music at home became less enjoyable and disjointed, and consequently did less and less of it. 

When i was in the mood to listen to music at home, it meant picking up my i-device and going from there - but like you i found i was constantly skipping around, or just listening to the same few albums. Its just not very satisfying on a small screen. Streaming is great from a value perspective, but the user interfaces are poor - not poor in isolation, many look nice, but poor from the point of view of solving the "here is all the music in the world, off you go" problem.

Some people like to discovery / suggestions that the services put up front - i havent really given them much of a chance, as from my admittedly little experience, the suggested playlists are not very good. A good radio station / DJ is still miles better as a way to discover new music than anything Apple Music, Deezer, Spotify and Tidal have done with their suggestions. 

So i made the decision to buy a turntable - i wanted to separate the music decision from the i-device in my hand, and do it in a way that if i chose an album, i'd just leave it on to play. And i'm so glad i did - even if its just weekends, where i select a record, put it on and forget it. It is perversely less hassle than music through the iPhone route - go figure!

I did also add a Moment, despite all its historic issues, again because i wanted a separate music device, and one which effectively gave me access to all my CD collection (plus radio and streaming)

So i've gone from asking why home listening had disappeared from my life, to now having reintroduced it.

I do still use streaming at times - its useful for building playlists of individual tracks i like from my radio listening, but its a small part of my listening. otherwise its my CD collection (through the Moment), vinyl for the 50 or so classic albums (to me anyway). And for the 5-10 or so new albums i really want each year, from artists i really like, i buy the CD and add it to my NAS / Moment set up.

So yes, in a long winded way, i'm with you - added some physical playback, side by side with some streaming.

 

I too rocognize your issue with streaming/browsing. I wouldn't ditch it though; the amount of Music available in good quality is fantastic.

My practical advice and what i (try) to do myself is decide what i want from the listening session before starting it. As you do when selecting one of the physical formats. Pick your album, playlist, daily discover or whatever, then start it and put the tablet out of reach and sit down and enjoy.

mind you there's nothing wrong about a browsing session, it's just a different experience. I personally find that it often feels like a waste of time afterwards, perhaps because of my very limited multitasking skills. The whole process of finding the next thing to entertain you becomes the main entertainment...

Com'on guys give yourself a grip.

Just pick the album, that you want to listen to (in any of the music services)....

....and put the device aside for as long as the album plays.

Where is the problem?

P.S. If there is a problem, that problem is you!

MM

That's a bit like asking "why are people, young and old, constantly screen addicted to their phones" - of course you dont have to be, but having a connected device with all the information in the world at your fingertips is where we are, and a lot of human beings behaviour has adjusted (some say poorly ) to it. 

And for music playback though a phone, for some people the issue is (a) the distractions but moreover (b) picking some music in a streaming app, or even your own iTunes library, when you're presented with all the music in the world vs staring at a shelf of 200/300 CD's is not fulfilling. 

And its the second issue i think is the bigger one - i re-iterate that the streaming apps have not solved that issue ("here's everything") well or imaginatively.

Its a very different visual interaction - looking at a set of your own physical media vs looking a portal of everything. 

And the portal of everything (the streaming apps) do a bad job of discovery in my view. Yes the user is culpable if they are constantly switching tracks and not settling on something, but thats also a function of having so many easy choices, too many in a way.

So yes, the way people interact / discover music has changed, and by opening a world of possibilities has become less simple.

Some dont mind and can navigate the streaming apps in a fulfilling way - well done them.

Some, like myself, have added a bit of physical playback to their routines (alongside streaming)

I wouldn't criticise them.

M best friends 14yr old kids both bought vinyl / turntables last week - likely a couple of millennial co-opting a bit of "hipster" culture. Nevertheless  the refusal of vinyl to go away completely does suggest, beyond the fashion aspect, that a physical component to interacting with music is valuable and enduring. And does undermine the "use a streaming app, you're being weird for still using some physical media" observation.

 

 

 

 

 

I think this ties in with your earlier thread involving whether to get a Moment. I find that the Moment give me a user experience more like selecting a CD or vinyl album rather than just jumping around to individual tracks. Of course, you still CAN jump around to different artists, albums, playlists, and tracks with the Moment. It just feels more natural to select the music and sit back and enjoy it for some reason.

@STY. Does this mean that you have now overcome the teething problems with your core?

I love the easiness of selecting a curated Deezer playlist, that has a theme that catches my interest. And then sit back and relax and getting served music I normally would not pick.

If it’s to strange for my taste, I just skip track on my Moment.

And Deezer HIFI really sound good

BeoBang:

I remember the days when I listened to Vinyl and CD's and could remember which track was coming next. Something special about listening to music in the order the artist wanted you to hear it. 

I have never owned a B&O turntable. I know I could probably buy an amazing modern day turntable but there is something special about the beograms from the 70's, 80's & 90's but which one? A little research tells me that the 4000 is possibly the choice of the purest. Then comes the question of where should I buy it or who could restore it? 

I would be interested to hear what you think of the Beogram 7000 or hear from anyone else with Beogram buying advice. 

Had most beograms - I will try to summarise:

The late Tangentials (5005, 5500, 7000 etc)

These are really rather good despite being light weight and the second arm being just decoration. The arm moves via a cord powered by the same motor as used to open the Beocord 5500 draw!Despite this and the slight snobbery that goes against the, they are really good! Suspension excellent! Too much plastic used in the construction though and this can get brittle.

The early Tangentials 4000 through to 8002

These are rather more substantial - the best engineered in probably the 4000 - which is quite frankly over engineered (all cast metal and real wood and fits together by sliding joints - very clever!) and can be tricky to fix. The 4000 and the early 4002 and 6000 had AC motors and a frequency generator and this was later replaced by a simpler DC motor. The early ones have a heavier platter assembly. All changed with the 8000, 6006 and 8002. These had a linear motor (like the disc in an electricity meter - fiendishly accurate and very low wow and flutter but not that strong and in fact can struggle if you insist on using some record cleaning devices - so don't! The 8002 record support is the best and it uses the later cartridges. The materials used are nothing like as good as the 4000 series and the lid spring is encased in plastic which gets brittle. A lot is held together with double sided tape which rots - most will have been fixed by now - not nearly as clearly designed as the 4000 series. One small anomaly is the 6002 which replaced the 6006 but is really a repackaged 4002 but uses the later cartridges and is as badly made as the 8000!

The radials

Don't forget these! The 5000 in my opinion sounds better than any of the later tangentials - beautifully made and a joy to operate. Highlights are possibly the 2402 and the very slim 1800 (remember B&O recycle names - there was an early 1800 which was totally different!)

Very early radials include a plethora of 3000s! The best being the Thorens one which is a TD124 MkII with an SP type arm - Probably the best sounding 'Beogram' of all but manual and very expensive.

 

What would I get - well, I have had almost all of them and at present have:

4000

4004

4001 (!)

3000 Thorens with 12" arm.

Have got rid of all the others though the 8000/8002 is a great deck if not so nicely made and is probably the best B&O one. Remember the cartridge is very important and I would recommend the MMC2 or MMC20CL depending on which deck you have. Sound smith make new cartridges which are excellent. I did have one but think I gave it away as not around now!!

If you want one which really looks wonderful, it has to be the 4000 - not remote control but you have to clean the record anyway!!

Many thanks Peter

I haven't been on this site for long but I am already astonished by the wealth of knowledge and courtesy of so many of its members. 

Today I managed to pick up a very original looking Beogram 4000 on ebay so I'm glad that out of all the many turntables B&O made over the years this is the one you have chosen as the best. 

The 4000 comes fitted with an SP15. Not sure if thats a good thing or something that needs to be upgraded. The turntable rotates but is described as not working and in need of tlc. I managed to find a video online explaining how to pack the 4000 before shipping so have asked the seller to follow the instructions to protect the machine. Not sure why I'm excited about receiving a machine that doesnt work but I'm sure this is the best site to find other people to understand what I mean. 

So now I need to find someone to restore it. I found a guy in America on a site called beolover.com. Its clear from the website that he knows a great deal about these machines but I wondered if I might be able to find someone in the UK with the same expertise and passion. Sadly I think the restoration will be beyond my limited capabilities so any advice about who I should go to would be much appreciated. 

I hear what you say about no remote control but I don't think that will bother me. The idea is I put a record on and sit back and listen which kind of brings us back to the reason why seethroughyou started this string.

 

seethroughyou:

Are you a lover of the new streaming services?

I ripped all my CD when B&o introduced the Beoplayer and never looked back. Note: I still buy CD/SACD/etc for the simple reason they have almost the same price as downloads. Streaming services like Deezer/Spotify for me are just something for background music at work or in my car. The services are also easy to discover new music.

seethroughyou:

Do you feel you’ve lost something by moving on from CD/Vinyl?

Not at all.................the digital world is much easier accessible. I still am an Album listener as before on Cd or as before that on vinyl.

The ADHD way isn't originated in the streaming listening's, but originated in the ease of access and the quick change in moods/emotions of the listener; I want to listen to this, I want to listen to that, maybe that next etc..... Sometimes I'm a victim of this behavior too, but mostly as said before I tend to listen to complete Albums.

And the main reason for the difference is? Lets face it, it is your age!

 

 

 

 

Hi,

i owned a Beogram 7000 for years and some thounds vinyl discs. A have sold the whole vinyl stuff 5 years ago. Same thing now with CD and DVD as well.

The reason for me is that i am no collector and no nostalgic. I really hate storing things, so streaming is the best solution for me.

I always keep in mind the good feelings (my first love, my first lovesickness, my first record, my first B&O product) but that's all. I need not have to  store that stuff physicallly  at my home.

And nearly everything is on the web even the rarest tracks that i was searching for, sometimes for many years. (I visited second hand records stores all over europe)

And the discussion about what sounds better is not my discussion.  (I owned LINN and Naim in the 80ies :-) ).

I have joy and great experience listening to streaming services. I don't regret that i have sold VINYL/CD/DVD.

Ralf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The way I view it, each different form we use to reproduce music is like a unique person with different personality traits.

We have friends that we were drawn to for one reason or another and each friend draws out different parts of ourselves when we are with them, it doesn't make all the other people and personalities less enjoyable or less valuable.

For my wife and I, we primarily listen to vinyl at home and streaming while on the go.

For me, the physical contact and intentionality of playing an LP slows me down and helps me to appreciate the album. Each purchase is an investment of time, space, and money, and the decision to purchase an album takes considered thought. That sense of thoughtful ownership and intentionality helps me to enjoy the music more. Giving a gift of an favorite LP to a fellow music lover is very enjoyable. I spent years as a collector of new digital music and had very little relationship with the music I consumed, and found the hunt for something new to be more important than enjoying the music I liked.

I will play a purchase LP far more often than I will a digital album, partly because I have fewer LPs than I have access to digital data packages.

It's like spending time with an introspective and intellectual friend, I become more introspective and intelligent sounding when I am with them. Or I become more adventurous and silly when spending time with one of my loud and carefree friends. I am the same man with both people, I just realize that their personality can change how I experience.

So to answer your question, yes. I did feel like I lost something with digital and the loss wasn't because the form of digital playback was lacking. What I lost was a personality that physical (or for me, analog) music was and how that analog personality brought out a part of me that I liked and I wanted that part of me again. If that makes sense.