Future B&O

9 LEE:

Meliora:

I really don't know if the dealers actual know that there is no more in the pipeline of the usual stuff..

If I'd just sunk tens of thousands into a store refit, or was a current dealer seeing a decline in business, this comment would ruin my day. 

As I've said before though, there are many people who know a lot more than me about business...  I'm sure they have a plan.  

Lee

Yes right .. But from a business perspective it could also be positive depending on what the "New" is. Because it is a fact that more dealers are struggling to survive as it is now. Something has to happen ... I think it is a bloom or fail strategy and the point of no return was passed this autumn.  

Emil Jensen:

I think you underestimate the market with license and headphone.

Look at Beats audio,

Look at B&O car audio.

 

The math works out.

I understand the licensing model well and don't deny it can be profitable. My concern is how much of those sales rely of the brand association to "Big Brother" B&O products - if genuine B&O release end or they are merely badged Chinese imports then how long before the brand image slips and then what will the Beoplay stuff hang their reputation on?

I do not believe genuine B&O release will end. It will be pure suicide and have no marketing meaning to end this.

And also why would any see it as a problem that B&O will use Airplay 2, Alexa and what not. This is clearly the way to survive instead of using ton of resource to make your own Multiroom app, and all the problems that follows. In the market there is now it is about being smart and not stubborn on old ways.

I do not believe genuine B&O release will end. It will be pure suicide and have no marketing meaning to end this.

And also why would any see it as a problem that B&O will use Airplay 2, Alexa and what not. This is clearly the way to survive instead of using ton of resource to make your own Multiroom app, and all the problems that follows. In the market there is now it is about being smart and not stubborn on old ways.

I still feel burnt from the removal of Spotify from the BeoSound 5 interface. Now, there is essentially NO tech support in the U.S. All that one gets is a recording from Denmark that all lines are busy, and then the call ends. I love B&O and have invested heavily in it over the decades. Yet, I'm reluctant to buy any more products that are heavily dependent on software updates. I recall my first burn from a bankrupt business. In my twenties, I bought a personal training package at a gym. When I went for my first personal training session, the door was locked and there was a sign on the door that the business had closed and had filed for bankruptcy protection. This makes this concern very real to me. My last order had over a 3-week delay in shipment for just a Moment. My dealer finally had to intervene after three weeks and find the one and only item in inventory in my country. At this point, I only feel comfortable with "cash and carry."

9 LEE:

I was unaware that so many people had been laid off..  

Talking about myself here.. As I get older, I get more suspicious, then I start looking at the story behind the story. 

Did Tue Mantoni see the certain demise of the company coming?  He got paid lots and lots of cheap shares instead of cash (I was told it was his decision) - and was this because his main aim was to inflate the share price, sell them, and make a fortune?  I mean, what a great signal of good intentions to want to be paid in shares. Looks good to everyone, doesn't it.  It's a PR thumbs-up, and a very shrewd move from a McKinsey trained and very savvy businessman with lots of contacts.

Inflating the share price means the board and the Bang and Olufsen families either had a chance to bail out of their shares for a good price, or the company would be an attractive purchase for someone as the books looked good. Maybe the books don't look good once you turn the pages, otherwise someone would have bought B&O by now? 

I'd love to know how many shares Tue has left, and how many of the family and boards shares have been sold.  I think that would reveal a few things.

As I've found out - to the cost of my own B&O business, the world has changed. AV has changed. B&O isn't the all-powerful name it once was, and that once great name has been ridden like a mule up a mountain for too long now. 

The Danish will always be great designers. No doubt. 

But, when people demand Danish design, Made in Denmark, at China prices, it all falls apart.

Lee

 

 

For the past Fifteen years I have been involved in the manufacture of audio in China, and of course have ( or had) a very keen interest in B&O

Was this a 'shrewd move' from Mr Mantoni.??

Decimate the brand as most knew it to be, outsource a new range of poorly designed products to China, move all TV production to LG and brand it B&O.

Fairly typical for an individual with no real vision but hey! the share price has risen at the cost of a huge number of jobs- so an unmitigated success then!!

The wonder is that there are still people on here prepared to pay nearly 10K for an LG TV that probably costs $2K FOB 

For all this apparent 'success' B&O has lost most of its brand recognition and the only hope is to keep the sales alive with a few blind millionaires and ever increasing non repairable 'play' products to swamp the market and compete with all the other companies at the same game.

No one has bought B&O because it sold its soul when Mr Mantoni took the helm.

As for the dealers they should exit tis market now, while they can before they all lose their shirts

 

 

 

Emil Jensen:

I think you underestimate the market with license and headphone.

Look at Beats audio,

Look at B&O car audio.

 

The math works out.

B&O car audio is owned by Harman now, and they are doing to it exactly what they do to all the lines they purchase. My friend worked there for years in car audio before moving to Panasonic. Harman turns out JBL car systems, Infinity car systems, B&O car systems, etc. but under the label and different grills they are all the same components and design and modules. I haven't heard how ICE Power is doing since it's been sold.

As for the Eclipse being the best TV ever, not true. The Sony, Philips, and Loewe incarnations of the same LG OLED panel have all been rated superior in motion processing, and most likely will be in color rendition as well, as the native LG panel B&O uses without modification is not as well regarded as the other three in that regard either.

Tue "saved" B&O the same way that OCP "saved" Murphy's life in Robocop.

Guys when you called the Eclipse a rebranded LG, I am lost for words, it is just sorry to say a very ignorant phrasing.

Jeff:

Emil Jensen:

I think you underestimate the market with license and headphone.

Look at Beats audio,

Look at B&O car audio.

 

The math works out.

B&O car audio is owned by Harman now, and they are doing to it exactly what they do to all the lines they purchase. My friend worked there for years in car audio before moving to Panasonic. Harman turns out JBL car systems, Infinity car systems, B&O car systems, etc. but under the label and different grills they are all the same components and design and modules. I haven't heard how ICE Power is doing since it's been sold.

As for the Eclipse being the best TV ever, not true. The Sony, Philips, and Loewe incarnations of the same LG OLED panel have all been rated superior in motion processing, and most likely will be in color rendition as well, as the native LG panel B&O uses without modification is not as well regarded as the other three in that regard either.

Tue "saved" B&O the same way that OCP "saved" Murphy's life in Robocop.

The B&O car audio was sold off, and thats my point, see how much money they got for a name! but the name have only value if there is Bang & Olufsen products.

If you take reviewers word for it, the Eclipse is the best TV ever. If you only measure a tv for the picture, I wonder if you only then review a car for its ability to go from 0-100 ? (Or another single minded ability)

And your color comment, Eclipse have Dolby Vision, Philips and Loewe, have not, and Sony is still holding its software back. And I give 0% for a motion Processing that you have to turn off any way if you have any respect for the true vision of a movie.

Well, heaven help me for judging a TV by it's, you know, picture. I should be happy then with an old Magnavox B&O round tube set if it has BL90s on the sides of it. Lawdy!

Emil Jensen:

They do not provide the display, the picture chip, and 90% of the interface.

Lets be clear, you yourself acknowledge the TV part is not B&O, the "so many more features" you expound are all in the sound bar (and stand).

Even the Trustedreviews review that people were quoting yesterday as a pointer to how good a product it is says, "

It is an LG TV with a B&O stand and soundsystem (with all the benefits that may bring to you) - no matter what you keep telling yourself.

Emil

Please get your facts right. Loewe has Dolby Vision and has it for a long time. Saying that processing does not matter to you just shows either ignorance or blind devotion.

I agree with you that Eclipse is not rebranded but a full blown LG TV (pun intended) with B&O sound bar. 

Emil Jensen:

And your color comment, Eclipse have Dolby Vision, Philips and Loewe, have not, and Sony is still holding its software back.

You need to recheck your facts. The latest Loewe TVs (bild 4, 5, 7 & 9 models) all have Dolby Vision and far superior image processing than the LG C7 which is what the Eclipse uses.

The only thing the Eclipse has going for it is the sound and that’s about it. It s basically a rebadged LG C7 with a motorised stand and 450 watt soundbar.

First of all, sorry about saying Loewe dont have dolby vision, my mistake.

I have always turned pro motion, or what they else have called fancy system, completely off. And I am not the only one.

You guys keep saying that Loewe is better, and I will not get into details if you eyes can judge this.

But we should agree that the eclipse in the top 5 in picture quality in the world, and B&O have never been up there, especially when we talk about new technology. Other models have used old displays or anyways have after a year been behind(Hopefully this will change with LG)

I think that the earth have turned upside down when it is needed to specify what you get ekstra with a B&O television on a B&O fan forum.

Lets compare to a LG C7, you get ekstra:

You get 2 tuner for recording 

You get picture in picture

You get a full blown surround processor in worldclass with interface on the TV

You get a full multiroom capable sound system

You get Airplay

You get chromecast

You get Tune in

You get one of the best remote in the world

You get a full PUC system to control third party

You get storage space for a Apple tv

You get option for a motoricestand with to axle

You get option for a flowding motor wall mount

You get the best sound from a TV in the world

You get both 3.0 and 1.0 sound option from the tv

You get WISA best wireless speaker system in the world

World class design (In my personal taste)

 

Oh no sorry i forgot it is just a rebranded TV, come on guys!

Jeff:

Well, heaven help me for judging a TV by it's, you know, picture. I should be happy then with an old Magnavox B&O round tube set if it has BL90s on the sides of it. Lawdy!

I have one question for you, do you think Rolls Royce any model is better then a Mercedes S600 ?

I'm lost by Emil's attempt at logic. B&O has always been about sound quality and integration. Arguing the merits of a single TV is just daft.  B&O is not about a single TV -- which has very short and fleeting value. It's about the enduring quality of sound as a home system. 

Emil Jensen:

First of all, sorry about saying Loewe dont have dolby vision, my mistake.

I have always turned pro motion, or what they else have called fancy system, completely off. And I am not the only one.

You guys keep saying that Loewe is better, and I will not get into details if you eyes can judge this.

But we should agree that the eclipse in the top 5 in picture quality in the world, and B&O have never been up there, especially when we talk about new technology. Other models have used old displays or anyways have after a year been behind(Hopefully this will change with LG)

I think that the earth have turned upside down when it is needed to specify what you get ekstra with a B&O television on a B&O fan forum.

Lets compare to a LG C7, you get ekstra:

You get 2 tuner for recording

You get picture in picture

You get a full blown surround processor in worldclass with interface on the TV

You get a full multiroom capable sound system

You get Airplay

You get chromecast

You get Tune in

You get one of the best remote in the world

You get a full PUC system to control third party

You get storage space for a Apple tv

You get option for a motoricestand with to axle

You get option for a flowding motor wall mount

You get the best sound from a TV in the world

You get both 3.0 and 1.0 sound option from the tv

You get WISA best wireless speaker system in the world

World class design (In my personal taste)

Oh no sorry i forgot it is just a rebranded TV, come on guys!

Beolab 20, Beolab 17, Transmitter 1

Great post! Agree completely.

Emil Jensen:

Lets compare to a LG C7, you get ekstra:

Right, at least over here in the frozen north, a LG C7 costs around 2-3k compared to Ecplise at around 20k.

That's quite the mental gymnastics to justify a soundbar and stand. And yes I already get all that functionality via an AppleTV & Logitech Harmony which works perfectly not tied to a particular brand, every time. Plus I can upgrade to a W7 without having to scrap everything.

If I didn't really have my LG OLED either next year or so I'm going to import a Loewe. Still keep the beolabs of course but they're not exclusive to Beovisions.

Emil Jensen:

Lets compare to a LG C7, you get ekstra:

You get 2 tuner for recording

You get picture in picture

You get storage space for a Apple tv

As an eclipse owner here i have to correct this a little.

1.Here in my bit of europe, cable companies work with ci+ modules(cable card) for hd tv. So therefore i can’t use the two tuner option(as it’s not really there in the way any normal person would read the spec sheet or manual). The only option is record hd and watch sd content and vice versa. This has made me furious, but apparently my dealer told me i can move house to another region where it’s subscribtion based without ci+ modules. It does have dual satelite tuners, but here for sat tv hd rating is 720i at best. So that’s a big no go. Somehow this is the fault of my cable provider and not b&o advertising when it does state dual tuner in the manual etc.

2. The same goes for picture in picture, the ci+(cable card) can only decode one stream of hd content at a time. So sd and hd is fine, but NOT hd with hd.

3. As you can not pause live tv on a usb drive(regardless of speed mb/s or size) i had to get an external hdd. The next problem became space, at the most obvious place they don’t fit with the ci+ module installed so i’t now in the main area behind the screen. This also isn’t fantastic because the cable route that is available(hmdi cec to soundbar route) doesn’t leave enough clearance for the usb cable to also pass through with the side cover on. So i’ll have to modify that someday soon by cutting/filing a notch out of the plastic.

Now coming to the “space” for the apple tv, i don’t think it’s there internally although i haven’t tried. I use an ultra slim 2.5” hdd from seagate which is under 10mm high. I do have some extra room in there but not much more than 3-4mm maybe 5mm. So unless the apple tv is 15ish millimeter in height, it won’t fit on the interior of the tv. The deepest i’ve measured so far was 25mm i think, but those places had length and width limitations.

I do like the picture quality though, if it’s not the best it’s so damn near close that with normal/enthusiast viewing you would never notice unless you have something better side by side. And even then it’s more like a 98% - 100% difference compared to a 85% - 100% difference wich it often souds like people are saying on here. So i gues my conclusion on the picture aspect is that probably everybody is right in saying the picture isn’t the best, but it’s sooooo close that it’s almost margin of error(freeze frame stuff).

Mikipedia

Comparing the price of a Beovision to another TV is ridiculous. Nobody buys a B and O TV because of the value of it. Just as nobody buys a Bentley, for instance, because of it’s value. Obviously if you look at the specifications one could find any number of cars that would out perform and have more features than a Bentley for less money.

And who cares where the screen comes from. The new Aston Martin Vantage has a Mercedes AMG engine in it, Mercedes electronics, and a touchpad straight out of the current Mercedes models. But I am certain Aston Martin will sell every Vantage they can make.

Bang and Olufsen is a luxury product and the price of a luxury product can never be justified in comparison to other products.

People either like individual Bang and Olufsen products or they do not.

Similarly the price may make sense to some and not to others. Personally, the price of the Eclipse looks like a bargain to me when I think of the $8,500 I paid 17 years ago for a 32 inch Avant or the fact that my 7-55 cost thousands of dollars more than a 55 inch Eclipse.

Will I buy an Eclipse? I don’t know. I have yet to see one in person.

But from the pictures, reviews, and features of it, I do like it very much.

Razlaw:

Comparing the price of a Beovision to another TV is ridiculous. Nobody buys a B and O TV because of the value of it. Just as nobody buys a Bentley, for instance, because of it’s value. Obviously if you look at the specifications one could find any number of cars that would out perform and have more features than a Bentley for less money.

 

 

And who cares where the screen comes from. The new Aston Martin Vantage has a Mercedes AMG engine in it, Mercedes electronics, and a touchpad straight out of the current Mercedes models. But I am certain Aston Martin will sell every Vantage they can make.

 

 

Bang and Olufsen is a luxury product and the price of a luxury product can never be justified in comparison to other products.

 

 

People either like individual Bang and Olufsen products or they do not.

 

Similarly the price may make sense to some and not to others. Personally, the price of the Eclipse looks like a bargain to me when I think of the $8,500 I paid 17 years ago for a 32 inch Avant or the fact that my 7-55 cost thousands of dollars more than a 55 inch Eclipse.

 

 

Will I buy an Eclipse? I don’t know. I have yet to see one in person.

 

But from the pictures, reviews, and features of it, I do like it very much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Razlaw, every time I read your comments, I always think that either you are blessed with too much money or cursed with little critical thinking or both. No body should ever throw out money on anything because they think it is a “Luxury” brand, particularly if there are choices available. But hey, who is to say what the best way to live. You live your way and many of us will live our way.

Also, please do not keep repeating where the screen comes from, You may not know but everyone else seems to already know that there is only manufacturer of large size OLED screen and that is LG.

Razlaw:

Will I buy an Eclipse? I don’t know. I have yet to see one in person.

But from the pictures, reviews, and features of it, I do like it very much.

But, with respect Razlaw, you say that about anything B&O. Every time there’s a new speaker release, you need it. New TV, it’s automatically excellent. Ultra-positive about all things B&O. Almost blinded by the brand. And there nothing wrong in that. Remember, we all own the kit! I have plenty of B&O and BeoPlay product.

The products are still excellent. But let down with constant software issues, reduced post-sale support, strong competition and the people here are rightly arguing the entire ethos is going, too. It’s just not the same B&O.

The Aston Martin analogy isn't quite the same - Beovisions have always had tubes or panels from some other manufacturer, as with cassette and CD mechanisms etc. The difference was always that B&O would then apply their own technology/electronics to extract the absolute best from the raw components and then, when the product performed as good as it could ever be, the mechanical guys added the B&O'ness with moving parts etc. and then wrapped it in B&O magic. That's what made a Beovision.

In this case they just haven't bothered doing anything at all.

What they absolutely did not do was buy a Philips TV and re-badge it (or just stick a speaker underneath).

If their next speaker was a re-badged B&W speaker would you buy it, happy that it had a B&O logo?

Or, more likely, when the next BL20 is entirely designed and manufactured in China would you buy it, happy that it had a B&O logo? Are they really Beolabs?

@Razlaw - would you have bought your BL20's if you knew they were designed and built in China? If so, how much would you have been willing to pay, the same or would you expect less?

All of this may seem an exaggeration but I fear this is very much the thin end of a wedge which may well end up at some point where the only B&O involvement is in what colour the Kvadrat cloth is!

svinaik:

Hi Razlaw, every time I read your comments, I always think that either you are blessed with too much money or cursed with little critical thinking or both. No body should ever throw out money on anything because they think it is a “Luxury” brand, particularly if there are choices available. But hey, who is to say what the best way to live. You live your way and many of us will live our way.

 

But can you get a TV that can do the same as the Eclipse, the answer is no.

So why compare to products that do not do the same?

Yes Loewe comes close, but are not there, the B&O is still ahead on many Things, but I will be the first to admid that Loewe also have a lot going for them, and thing they do better then B&O.

Even if engineers have been laid off doesn’t mean that B&O can’t design TV solutions under their brand and made by the experts at third party companies like LG.

I see a future for B&O TVs.

I bought my first B&O over 10 years ago. Since then I have suffered financial hardship, etc. but recently things have turned around to the point where I either buy a car (sold it due to job loss) or buy an Eclipse. Guess what I'm doing...

My point is that when I first bought I came on here and read all the posts - around mid-2000s. Same issues. B&O are losing their way, it's all going pear-shaped, etc. It's strange to come back after such a long time and read much the same things.

I suppose I'm fortunate to have bypassed all the software troubles of recent products. B&O have had lots of software issues and the number 1 cry appears to be - fix the software! So B&O out source their software to a major TV manufacturer (LG) which will immediately reduce a lot of their tech burden, and what do people say? They now complain that it isn't B&O.

MO: B&O have done the right thing to reduce tech risk by further outsourcing the TV bits to other manufacturers, leaving them to focus on the audio and networking which is B&O's forte. I can't see them churning out premium BV products that debut two years after everyone else, and make a profit.

As to outsourcing to China, get real. Just about everything you buy or use comes from overseas, no matter where you live. It's the quality that counts, not the location.

I'm happy to buy the Eclipse, I think it's worth it, mainly because I like the brand. My existing BV and other toys kept a smile on my face even through the worst times. I had a real attachment to my car and I miss it, but I sold it in preference to my B&O. If they fail in the next few years I'll be devastated, but I am happy with the product today. Tomorrow, who knows? I'll judge it when I next purchase some B&O magic.

B&O design was once so good and distinctive that there was never any problem defending an expensive purchase against standard manufacturers offerings.

Apart from the current big speaker range (with a manufacturing life of 5-10 years at the outside?) I wouldn’t want to defend a purchase of a current B&O offering. The TV motorised stands and wall hinges still knock the competition out of the water though! It wouldn't be too difficult to make a motorised soundbar to carry any TV panel, with the PUC and control chips in the soundbar. Isn't that what they've done with the Eclipse, but as a very expensive product with a fixed choice of panel marked-up 400%?

Graham

 

Aussie Michael:

Even if engineers have been laid off doesn’t mean that B&O can’t design TV solutions under their brand and made by the experts at third party companies like LG.

 

 

I see a future for B&O TVs.

 

 

If the engineers have gone who is going to do the designing,  or do you mean the party frock to dress it up?

 

Emil Jensen:

First of all, sorry about saying Loewe dont have dolby vision, my mistake.

I have always turned pro motion, or what they else have called fancy system, completely off. And I am not the only one.

You guys keep saying that Loewe is better, and I will not get into details if you eyes can judge this.

But we should agree that the eclipse in the top 5 in picture quality in the world, and B&O have never been up there, especially when we talk about new technology. Other models have used old displays or anyways have after a year been behind(Hopefully this will change with LG)

I think that the earth have turned upside down when it is needed to specify what you get ekstra with a B&O television on a B&O fan forum.

Lets compare to a LG C7, you get ekstra:

You get 2 tuner for recording 

You get picture in picture

You get a full blown surround processor in worldclass with interface on the TV

You get a full multiroom capable sound system

You get Airplay

You get chromecast

You get Tune in

You get one of the best remote in the world

You get a full PUC system to control third party

You get storage space for a Apple tv

You get option for a motoricestand with to axle

You get option for a flowding motor wall mount

You get the best sound from a TV in the world

You get both 3.0 and 1.0 sound option from the tv

You get WISA best wireless speaker system in the world

World class design (In my personal taste)

 

Oh no sorry i forgot it is just a rebranded TV, come on guys!

Which of these features are not in the soundbar?

To go back to the first question, it seems that what Meloria said was true then (confirmed by "insider" Roger).

Had a wee discussion about it this morning with my wife about this Struer Revolution, she said "Yes !!!" (meaning less money spent).

Well I had to ask her if she wasn’t happy after all those years with B&O gears ?

Of course she was and, again, I’m sad to ear that the ship is shrinking deeper and deeper (it’s now a submarine).

I’m still very interested in an Eclipse and it’s just a problem of extra cash for me.

Puncher:

Which of these features are not in the soundbar?

What is your point exactly?

but to answer your question compared to C7:

You get 2 tuner for recording 

You get picture in picture

You get a full blown surround processor interface on the TV

multiroom capable interface

PUC system interface

motoricestand interface

 

Don't be blind to what the competition offers and assume that B&O is always superior.

My Olive One has enabled me to stream and keep using Beovoxes but retire energy inefficient Beomasters to the status of show/ talking pieces.

Bose are much derided on this forum, but my own ancient Mk 1 Wave Radio has given faultless performance for longer than I can remember.

B&O may yet recover to their former glory, but they are going through a fairly common phase of a relatively large company having to shrink down whilst at the same time several new start-ups with low overheads and new design ideas are suddenly alongside them in the market. Maybe the Play range was the only way forward, and maybe that means B&O is just destined to be nothing special once it can no longer find a market for the BL50/90s and Eclipse TVs.

Graham

You need to recheck your facts yet again. 

The 2x Tuners for recording isn't unique to the Eclipse as it's also offered by some other TV manufacturers.

The built-in surround sound processor is also offered by some other TV manufacturers. 

Picture-in-Picture - Also offered by some other TV manufacturers which include more than one tuner on their TVs. 

Motorised stand - Also offered by a certain German TV manufacturer already mentioned in this thread (although not to the same design or ability as the Eclipse, it's still a motorised stand nonetheless). 

So let's see, what's unique to the Eclipse that's left on your list?

PUC System interface & Multiroom capable interface.

The only other things unique to the Eclipse one might want to add to that list is the powerful 450 watt sound bar and maybe the design.    

Emil Jensen:

Puncher:

Which of these features are not in the soundbar?

What is your point exactly?

but to answer your question compared to C7:

You get 2 tuner for recording 

You get picture in picture

You get a full blown surround processor interface on the TV

multiroom capable interface

PUC system interface

motoricestand interface

 

OK - at this point I give up - enjoy your telly!

 

From a question in the Eclipse thread..........

http://www.qvcuk.com/b&o-play-by-bang-&-olufsen/electronics/_/N-1z13xyrZlfof/c.html

Graham

vikinger:

Don't be blind to what the competition offers and assume that B&O is always superior.

I'm definitely not blind. This is far superior to many BeoPlay speakers: https://www.ultimateears.com/en-gb/wireless-speakers/blast.html

I bought one the other day. Love the design (mostly made out of rubber components), performs well, it's waterproof, supports Alexa and much more. The MegaBlast is better again, but far less portable. I take the (old, previous) Blast on vacation.

The problem with B&O fans is that a lot are lazy thinkers and don't want the 'stress' of finding other products so want to stick with 'what we know' and are blinkered in this thinking: look at a couple of Eclipse owners on here. Acting a little like rabid cornered dogs.

Wow!

It's been obvious that things have not been rosy for B&O, but the things brought to light by Meliora still left me feeling aghast.

For some comfort, If Play is more or less the future of B&O, listening to BeoPlay A6 this morning was once again a joy!

It also seems that BeoLab 90 has matured and is almost complete, re: the feature list at: http://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2016/06/28/beolab-90-released-features/

There are only a few "No's" left in the Implemented column. I'm not even certain if the few unimplemented features really matter with this speaker.

As for engineering at B&O, this is a great example of engineering & development at its best: http://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2015/10/06/beolab-90-behind-the-scenes/

Do the insights from Meliora & Roger mean that there won't be any such efforts with future B&O?

I'm sad about what's happening

AngloApulian:

You need to recheck your facts yet again. 

The 2x Tuners for recording isn't unique to the Eclipse as it's also offered by some other TV manufacturers.

The built-in surround sound processor is also offered by some other TV manufacturers. 

Picture-in-Picture - Also offered by some other TV manufacturers which include more than one tuner on their TVs. 

Motorised stand - Also offered by a certain German TV manufacturer already mentioned in this thread (although not to the same design or ability as the Eclipse, it's still a motorised stand nonetheless). 

So let's see, what's unique to the Eclipse that's left on your list?

PUC System interface & Multiroom capable interface.

The only other things unique to the Eclipse one might want to add to that list is the powerful 450 watt sound bar and maybe the design.    

 

You need to read what i wrote.

Compared to a LG C7

And I am not saying B&O have something others dont have.

What I am saying they are the only one who have it in one product and one remote.

I wonder if you guys have ever known the advantage of a B&O tv???

i wonder if there would still be a 77'' version in the works now that too many people are fired. i sincerly hope they didn't get rid of all their talent... something along the lines of the lg w7/loewe bild 7 77'' but with more B&Oness. 

eitherway it's not good news.

 

mikipedia

Emil Jensen:

What I am saying they are the only one who have it in one product and one remote.

I wonder if you guys have ever known the advantage of a B&O tv???

That's exactly why I'm still considering an Eclipse even with the lack of curtains, Vision Clear or Automatic Picture Control.

When you got for ages a tv with one remote (even for light) and all the goodies attached (ie. stb, Playstation, Bluray...) without a furniture, it's hard to go back.

And even if the Loewe option could be an alternative Tv alone (to which point for the unique remote ?) I still prefer the look and materials of the Eclipse and the Puc with stb brackets on the back.

Picture and sound are certainly an improvement over my BV 11-46 so I absolutely don't care if the "competition" have better settings for their Oled panels.

A few of us expected a price tag between 7.500 € / 8.000 € for the 55", at that price the Tv would certainely be already in my living room and some employees still in Struer. We'll never know...