ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Puncher: OK - at this point I give up - enjoy your telly!
OK - at this point I give up - enjoy your telly!
You know Puncher, I've seen people get less upset when you shoot their dog than when anyone points out the negatives of the Eclipse or other B&O gear.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Beer_Baron:I bought my first B&O over 10 years ago. Since then I have suffered financial hardship, etc. but recently things have turned around to the point where I either buy a car (sold it due to job loss) or buy an Eclipse. Guess what I'm doing... My point is that when I first bought I came on here and read all the posts - around mid-2000s. Same issues. B&O are losing their way, it's all going pear-shaped, etc. It's strange to come back after such a long time and read much the same things. I suppose I'm fortunate to have bypassed all the software troubles of recent products. B&O have had lots of software issues and the number 1 cry appears to be - fix the software! So B&O out source their software to a major TV manufacturer (LG) which will immediately reduce a lot of their tech burden, and what do people say? They now complain that it isn't B&O. MO: B&O have done the right thing to reduce tech risk by further outsourcing the TV bits to other manufacturers, leaving them to focus on the audio and networking which is B&O's forte. I can't see them churning out premium BV products that debut two years after everyone else, and make a profit. As to outsourcing to China, get real. Just about everything you buy or use comes from overseas, no matter where you live. It's the quality that counts, not the location. I'm happy to buy the Eclipse, I think it's worth it, mainly because I like the brand. My existing BV and other toys kept a smile on my face even through the worst times. I had a real attachment to my car and I miss it, but I sold it in preference to my B&O. If they fail in the next few years I'll be devastated, but I am happy with the product today. Tomorrow, who knows? I'll judge it when I next purchase some B&O magic. BV6-26, BV7-40, BL7.4, BL3, BL5, BS9000
Jeff: Puncher: OK - at this point I give up - enjoy your telly! You know Puncher, I've seen people get less upset when you shoot their dog than when anyone points out the negatives of the Eclipse or other B&O gear.
You can call it what you want, but I get irritated when people bash product when bashing is not justified.
And I though this website was a fan forum but it is evolving into a bashing B&O forum.
Everyone is in their own right to do as they do, I just dont understand people want to be this negative.
And I do not suspect it have a good outcome, as people who buy B&O come in here, and see the bashing and leave.
Back is the people who just want to put a negative spin on everything.
And off cause one should not be blind and not see reality.
B&O have done a lot of dumb things, like the Android platform, and software on the Moment.
But then the first time they deliver a TV solution that works this is bad too.
And sometimes I feel it necessary to be overly positive as I try to fight 4 bad comments with one.
I am not an idiot I see the problems, but who does it help to focus on this, and not just acknowledge them.
And every TV maker have there problems. B&O is no where perfect, but neither is the competitor.
Beovision Harmony 77" 2nd Gen, Beolab 5, Beolab 17, Beosound 1, Beoplay M3, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay Earset, Beoliving Intelligence
beojeff: I still feel burnt from the removal of Spotify from the BeoSound 5 interface. Now, there is essentially NO tech support in the U.S. All that one gets is a recording from Denmark that all lines are busy, and then the call ends. I love B&O and have invested heavily in it over the decades. Yet, I'm reluctant to buy any more products that are heavily dependent on software updates. I
I still feel burnt from the removal of Spotify from the BeoSound 5 interface. Now, there is essentially NO tech support in the U.S. All that one gets is a recording from Denmark that all lines are busy, and then the call ends. I love B&O and have invested heavily in it over the decades. Yet, I'm reluctant to buy any more products that are heavily dependent on software updates. I
Could not agree more.
The only things I still consider is what i call "legacy products" (ML mostly), so for my cinema-room I will base it on a Beosystem 3 (going for 900€ nowadays, excellent value for a surround processor IMHO)
I feel sadness and disappointment
Emil Jensen: Jeff: Puncher: OK - at this point I give up - enjoy your telly! You know Puncher, I've seen people get less upset when you shoot their dog than when anyone points out the negatives of the Eclipse or other B&O gear. You can call it what you want, but I get irritated when people bash product when bashing is not justified. And I though this website was a fan forum but it is evolving into a bashing B&O forum. Everyone is in their own right to do as they do, I just dont understand people want to be this negative. And I do not suspect it have a good outcome, as people who buy B&O come in here, and see the bashing and leave. Back is the people who just want to put a negative spin on everything. And off cause one should not be blind and not see reality. B&O have done a lot of dumb things, like the Android platform, and software on the Moment. But then the first time they deliver a TV solution that works this is bad too. And sometimes I feel it necessary to be overly positive as I try to fight 4 bad comments with one. I am not an idiot I see the problems, but who does it help to focus on this, and not just acknowledge them. And every TV maker have there problems. B&O is no where perfect, but neither is the competitor.
Case in point...
Jeff: Case in point...
You are so very welcome, and thank you for your positive contribution to the forum.
Emil Jensen: Jeff: Case in point... You are so very welcome, and thank you for your positive contribution to the forum.
Don't whine, it's unbecoming.
Jeff: Emil Jensen: Jeff: Case in point... You are so very welcome, and thank you for your positive contribution to the forum. Don't whine, it's unbecoming.
Haha Jeff, we can only agree that it is unbecoming this "as you so maturely call it" whine
But damn you should be the last person to through that rock!
Please allow me to repeat my "Grow up" post from a few days ago.
This really is tedious.
Ban boring signatures!
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
Puncher: Please allow me to repeat my "Grow up" post from a few days ago. This really is tedious.
It really is. Hence my “like a cornered rabid dog” comparison. People defend their purchase as if they are in court and being sentenced to death. If you love it so much, turn off your computer, switch on your TV and it will make you happy. Anyone who defends so strongly, has some insecurities with the purchase and needs satisfaction for peace of mind.
If something makes you happy, turn off the thing that makes you unhappy.
moxxey: Puncher: Please allow me to repeat my "Grow up" post from a few days ago. This really is tedious. It really is. Hence my “like a cornered rabid dog” comparison. People defend their purchase as if they are in court and being sentenced to death. If you love it so much, turn off your computer, switch on your TV and it will make you happy. Anyone who defends so strongly, has some insecurities with the purchase and needs satisfaction for peace of mind. If something makes you happy, turn off the thing that makes you unhappy.
Amen.....so well said ,,,
Just to be clear, I do not have a Eclipse, but an LG OLED.
I defend so strongly as people is bashing it without perspective.
Then again maybe you dont mean me, but the eclipse owners here on the site is quit forward with mistakes and the good things, I dont recall any defend their purchase as if they are in court?
And here I had the impression you actually had some skin in this game!
Emil Jensen: Just to be clear, I do not have a Eclipse, but an LG OLED.
Pardon? You have to be kidding me?
svinaik: Razlaw:Comparing the price of a Beovision to another TV is ridiculous. Nobody buys a B and O TV because of the value of it. Just as nobody buys a Bentley, for instance, because of it’s value. Obviously if you look at the specifications one could find any number of cars that would out perform and have more features than a Bentley for less money.And who cares where the screen comes from. The new Aston Martin Vantage has a Mercedes AMG engine in it, Mercedes electronics, and a touchpad straight out of the current Mercedes models. But I am certain Aston Martin will sell every Vantage they can make. Bang and Olufsen is a luxury product and the price of a luxury product can never be justified in comparison to other products. People either like individual Bang and Olufsen products or they do not.Similarly the price may make sense to some and not to others. Personally, the price of the Eclipse looks like a bargain to me when I think of the $8,500 I paid 17 years ago for a 32 inch Avant or the fact that my 7-55 cost thousands of dollars more than a 55 inch Eclipse. Will I buy an Eclipse? I don’t know. I have yet to see one in person.But from the pictures, reviews, and features of it, I do like it very much. Hi Razlaw, every time I read your comments, I always think that either you are blessed with too much money or cursed with little critical thinking or both. No body should ever throw out money on anything because they think it is a “Luxury” brand, particularly if there are choices available. But hey, who is to say what the best way to live. You live your way and many of us will live our way.Also, please do not keep repeating where the screen comes from, You may not know but everyone else seems to already know that there is only manufacturer of large size OLED screen and that is LG.
Razlaw:Comparing the price of a Beovision to another TV is ridiculous. Nobody buys a B and O TV because of the value of it. Just as nobody buys a Bentley, for instance, because of it’s value. Obviously if you look at the specifications one could find any number of cars that would out perform and have more features than a Bentley for less money.And who cares where the screen comes from. The new Aston Martin Vantage has a Mercedes AMG engine in it, Mercedes electronics, and a touchpad straight out of the current Mercedes models. But I am certain Aston Martin will sell every Vantage they can make. Bang and Olufsen is a luxury product and the price of a luxury product can never be justified in comparison to other products. People either like individual Bang and Olufsen products or they do not.Similarly the price may make sense to some and not to others. Personally, the price of the Eclipse looks like a bargain to me when I think of the $8,500 I paid 17 years ago for a 32 inch Avant or the fact that my 7-55 cost thousands of dollars more than a 55 inch Eclipse. Will I buy an Eclipse? I don’t know. I have yet to see one in person.But from the pictures, reviews, and features of it, I do like it very much.
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
moxxey: Razlaw:Will I buy an Eclipse? I don’t know. I have yet to see one in person.But from the pictures, reviews, and features of it, I do like it very much. But, with respect Razlaw, you say that about anything B&O. Every time there’s a new speaker release, you need it. New TV, it’s automatically excellent. Ultra-positive about all things B&O. Almost blinded by the brand. And there nothing wrong in that. Remember, we all own the kit! I have plenty of B&O and BeoPlay product.The products are still excellent. But let down with constant software issues, reduced post-sale support, strong competition and the people here are rightly arguing the entire ethos is going, too. It’s just not the same B&O.
Razlaw:Will I buy an Eclipse? I don’t know. I have yet to see one in person.But from the pictures, reviews, and features of it, I do like it very much.
Puncher:The Aston Martin analogy isn't quite the same - Beovisions have always had tubes or panels from some other manufacturer, as with cassette and CD mechanisms etc. The difference was always that B&O would then apply their own technology/electronics to extract the absolute best from the raw components and then, when the product performed as good as it could ever be, the mechanical guys added the B&O'ness with moving parts etc. and then wrapped it in B&O magic. That's what made a Beovision.In this case they just haven't bothered doing anything at all.What they absolutely did not do was buy a Philips TV and re-badge it (or just stick a speaker underneath).If their next speaker was a re-badged B&W speaker would you buy it, happy that it had a B&O logo?Or, more likely, when the next BL20 is entirely designed and manufactured in China would you buy it, happy that it had a B&O logo? Are they really Beolabs?@Razlaw - would you have bought your BL20's if you knew they were designed and built in China? If so, how much would you have been willing to pay, the same or would you expect less?All of this may seem an exaggeration but I fear this is very much the thin end of a wedge which may well end up at some point where the only B&O involvement is in what colour the Kvadrat cloth is!
I think both “sides” to this Eclipse discussion leave much to be desired. But who cares what I think...
Back on topic, the death of the ml/nl converter an nl development is not a huge surprize. Once the Essence supported Chromecast groups, i could link my ml network (via Chromecast audio connected to my beosound) with nl devices and no longer had the audio delay issue, and thought “why did i drop $1000 on this thing again?”. I do hope they allow the tv to be a source as that is something Chromecast cannot do today. Also, people seem so much more accepting of flakey wireless from apple and google.
Also a couple months ago I was complaining about B&O getting too rich for my current situation - do I really need ultimate sound for a speaker by a pool - now maybe i can get a sonus or similar device to drive my “good enough” outdoor speakers and save some $$$ and still be able to sync wiyh my patio speakers (driven by an essence + passive).
So that’s the good. Otherwise, the thought of losing the engineering team that created the bl50 and their big brothers/sisters is seriously depressing.
Stan
One more fear to add to all of the others - what happens when the new, non-backward compatible version of airplay inevitably comes out in a few years. This was one of the positive side effects of b&o slow technical adoption - slower obsolescence.
moxxey: Emil Jensen: Just to be clear, I do not have a Eclipse, but an LG OLED. Pardon? You have to be kidding me?
Haha no I am actually not, I have Beolab 20 setup preamp to a Marantz receiver, then hooked up to an LG full HD OLED.
I am just trying to explain why the Eclipse cost what it does, as why the AVANT did the same and so on.
I am not defending a purchase, I would not care if just I was happy with it, but I just feel that when People say like the Eclipse is a rebranded LG with a 400% mark up, I have to defend for such a rubbish comment.
And by the way, I am not satisfied with my currently set-up, so I know what people are getting into if they leave the Beovison family (And here I am mostly thinking of other brand then Loewe, Loewe seem to do a pretty good job, and think it is very interesting hearing from people trying this)
Razlaw:As for your question would I have purchased the BL20s if they were designed and built in China? Yes. Because I like them and I live in the 21st century, and understand times do change, and you can either change with them, or be left behind in the past. I certainly do not believe a product is poorly made just because it is manufactured in China, anymore than I believe a product is well made, just because it is made in Denmark.
BeoGreg:But still don’t you think that they should cost less then when they were designed and made in the Holy Land not too long ago ? That’s my big concern about the Eclipse anyway and I will repeat it over and over again (untill the price drops or I win the lottery).
Razlaw:No. I recognize we live in a world economy. But if you think it is appropriate to pay more just for a made in Denmark label, that is your choice, your opinion, and I respect it. But I do not share that opinion.
Razlaw: But if you think it is appropriate to pay more just for a made in Denmark label...
But if you think it is appropriate to pay more just for a made in Denmark label...
Yes but it is not about the label, I think it’s more related to a huge difference in the cost of labor.
Plus the difference of almost hand-made vs robot-plant chinese sweatshop made. There simply has to be a price difference I believe.
Things like that are a real sore point for the dealers. The ones I know were livid at being forced to carry Play by B&O and being forced to buy very expensive display furniture for them (thousands of dollars) only to be undersold by such stores and mail/online order places. Things that made me wonder if B&O actually wanted any dealers to survive.
Calvin: I think the key comparison is to Apple which moved everything to Asia.
I think the key comparison is to Apple which moved everything to Asia.
Apple has not laid off the engineers and most of the company. None of the products are designed or managed in Asia. Some of their products are built in Asia with very exacting quality standards which is fine.
This sounds NOTHING like what B&O is doing if above is true. Even when at their best B&O has serious quality control issues. Just look at the software on their TV's or the god awful Moment.
B&O should just stick with BeoPlay as it prob sells the best and simple enough that they shouldn't screw it up to bad.
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BeoLab 18's. Beolab 3's. A8. A9. A2. H7.
I don't think that the awful moment has a longlife anymore