Beovision 14 the end of Bang Olufsen Tv

Hi all

I have been a very long and loyal Bang Olufsen customer . Last year I bought the Beovision 14 , with the Android system , I appreciate the fact that B&O are a small Tv company , I also under stand that B&O need to do something to keep in the market place. I have been informed by my retailer that when B&O run out of the panels for the Avant and 14  that will be the end of production. And the LG will be the way forward using both LG panels but also their operating system.

I like how everybody has bought a Beo 14 will be left with a very expensive experiment that did not work . We are still experiencing crashing and the fact it does not always turn on my skybox , it has to be pressed twice for it to work

It will be just like the BeoMaster 5 with no software to connect the system . The dealer has said that the 14 will still get updates to remedy its issues? Yes of course it will when it looks like there having similar problems with the Eclipse their new flagship TV. I know they both operate on different operating systems but that is besides the point all their resources will be now be redirected into solving their eclipse issues.

My tv is just twelve months old and what are the chances of it ever been fully correct as advertised ,is this not a breach of contract as the tv is not working correctly. All the dealer does is point out that it’s Androids fault surely its B&O’s issue as the tv was released far too early ? 

 

Any  thoughts out there. Stuart

My dealer told me that the Avant and Horizon would continue into the foreseeable future.  The Horizon is the "small" TV, the Avant is the "large" TV (the 55" Avant is being discontinued, but the 75 / 85" would continue.  Meanwhile, the Eclipse gets the 55 and 65".  He didn't mention the BV14, and I didn't ask.  However, to me, this means the Android platform is not dead (for now).

Also, given the Eclipse and BV14/Avant/Horizon are completely different platforms - WebOS vs. Android, different NL capabilities, the comment that only problems in the Eclipse will be fixed in the BV14 doesn't exactly make sense (to me).

Unfortunately, dealers cannot always be trusted or, to be more forgiving, they may interpret the same information in different ways.  I say "follow the money".  Maybe your dealer is trying to get you to upgrade to an Eclipse?  Maybe my dealer is trying to sell me a soon to be obsolete TV?  It does seem like if the TV cannot do what it was advertised to do, then there should be some recourse... but laws are obviously different around the world.

I hope what you say is not so, but only time will tell.

Hi Stan,

it should be very easy for your dealer to find out, that the Avant NG 75”/85” soon won’t be able to order.

There are only few items left.

To my knowledge there has been no talking of discontinuing the BV14 and the BV Horizon.........yet.

That said - every new tv from B&O will be made in cooperation with LG.

MM

Avant 75 is discontinued. Avant 55 & 85 are still available. BV14 is discontinued with only 40" available at present. Horizon - no plans to stop production. Effectively, we will soon be down to Eclipse and Horizon as I understand it...

SHEFFIELD:

Avant 75 is discontinued. Avant 55 & 85 are still available. BV14 is discontinued with only 40" available at present. Horizon - no plans to stop production. Effectively, we will soon be down to Eclipse and Horizon as I understand it...

And how exactly is a dealer supposed to survive whilst selling such a heavily depleted range?  

Lee

9 LEE:

SHEFFIELD:

Avant 75 is discontinued. Avant 55 & 85 are still available. BV14 is discontinued with only 40" available at present. Horizon - no plans to stop production. Effectively, we will soon be down to Eclipse and Horizon as I understand it...

And how exactly is a dealer supposed to survive whilst selling such a heavily depleted range?  

Lee

Who needs dealers? We've got tons of Pro Partners lining up to work with us. Really.

9 LEE:

SHEFFIELD:

Avant 75 is discontinued. Avant 55 & 85 are still available. BV14 is discontinued with only 40" available at present. Horizon - no plans to stop production. Effectively, we will soon be down to Eclipse and Horizon as I understand it...

And how exactly is a dealer supposed to survive whilst selling such a heavily depleted range?  

Lee

There might be something new coming, perhaps ;-)

MM

Millemissen:

There might be something new coming, perhaps ;-)

Most dealers know what's coming at least 6 months in advance, often longer. Of course, something could be announced at CES in January, but usually dealers have some indication of what's coming, either/way. I remember when the Moment was announced, dealers knew months before a new audio system was coming.

I'm sure we'll see the Eclipse in new sizing, but I can't imagine we'll see brand new TVs with a new design. No point really.

Millemissen:

There might be something new coming, perhaps ;-)

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

I should hope so, you only need to look at what is coming out of LG panel wise to see what will be adopted by B&O. I have seen B&O down to only two models in the past only to come back and surprise us all.

w5bno123:

 

I should hope so, you only need to look at what is coming out of LG panel wise to see what will be adopted by B&O. I have seen B&O down to only two models in the past only to come back and surprise us all.

 

 

The only surprise will be how many, if any independent dealers are left.

 

9 LEE:

And how exactly is a dealer supposed to survive whilst selling such a heavily depleted range?  

Unfortunately, I agree.

Last week I drove quite a distance to a dealer I had left a large deposit with and a pair of Beolab speakers for a trade in against a new B&O tv (which, we now know was the Eclipse) and/or a Loewe model as a backup plan. We made this arrangement several months ago.

Due to so many reasons about the brand (all negative and as discussed in several threads on this forum) I decided to take back the speakers and my deposit for fear that the dealer might not even exist in the coming weeks, let alone months. This is so sad. I was going to hang on until CES 2018 but the more I thought about it, the closing/sale of so many dealers (including Bath where I live); Lee at Lifestyle AV closing; the disappointment of the Eclipse and many other products (for me) in recent years; products plagued with software problems; experimental products as pointed out above and of course the 100% negative feedback from customers on their very own website... it's a complete disaster in all honesty. The brand is just not what it was; miles away in fact - polar opposites. I have completely lost faith.

I don't know what the way forward is for B&O and I appreciate how challenging times are with technology changing quickly and the fact they are not a big player. I acknolwedge that, but in all honestly I have expected a lot more than their product efforts and customer service in recent years. They are way short of what (I thought) the brand once stood for. They continue to shoot themselves in the foot by publishing all the honest feedback customers are leaving and this shows me they simply don't care and are lost in some dreamworld assuming publicity like this isn't going to destroy the brand forever. It's bonkers in my opinion and I honestly - DO NOT GET IT!

Simon.

SHEFFIELD:

Avant 75 is discontinued. Avant 55 & 85 are still available. BV14 is discontinued with only 40" available at present. Horizon - no plans to stop production. Effectively, we will soon be down to Eclipse and Horizon as I understand it...

I would imagine, given their price and construction, Eclipse and Horizon have the best margins for B&O and are the easiest (most cost-effective) to manufacture.

In a way it makes sense to cut the range to bare minimum, while the LG partnership takes shape.

B&O is in the survival mode.

KMA:

I would imagine, given their price and construction, Eclipse and Horizon have the best margins for B&O and are the easiest (most cost-effective) to manufacture.

Not forgetting all the post-sale issues they've experienced with the Android-based TVs. They must have replaced quite a few, sent engineers to solve issues and so on - that's a cost that needs to be accounted for and a cost they'll want to eliminate. Rather than fix the bugs, easier just to ditch the product that causes the issue in the first place.

It’s easier (and less harmful to your reputation) to fix the software /before/ giving it to your customers. They should have delayed and doubled down until it was done.

KMA:

SHEFFIELD:

 

Avant 75 is discontinued. Avant 55 & 85 are still available. BV14 is discontinued with only 40" available at present. Horizon - no plans to stop production. Effectively, we will soon be down to Eclipse and Horizon as I understand it...

 

 

 

I would imagine, given their price and construction, Eclipse and Horizon have the best margins for B&O and are the easiest (most cost-effective) to manufacture.

 

 

In a way it makes sense to cut the range to bare minimum, while the LG partnership takes shape.

 

 

B&O is in the survival mode.

The margins on TVs are dreadful compared to speakers. I remember when we worked to a 40% gross margin on TVs, nothing like that these days...

SHEFFIELD:

The margins on TVs are dreadful compared to speakers. I remember when we worked to a 40% gross margin on TVs, nothing like that these days...

So I wonder if LG, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic etc. are making a loss on TVs and make up for it in other product categories, or they make a profit with small margins & high volume (the benefits of economics of scale).

Given how much dealers can discount the mainstream TVs, I think each year the new top-of-the-line models begin with healthy margins, make the profits and then fire sell the rest. For example Sony A1 can now be had at half the launch price, when CES 2018 is right around the corner.

For a small player such as B&O, even with their prices, finding the sweet spot of price/volume must have proven impossible – added with the losses that surely incurred from their software development mishaps which were perceived – rightly so – as an unforgivable lack of quality. In a way, B&O is also trapped in the luxury category, where prices should never come down to dismay the customers who have paid a hefty premium.

My humble opinion is that B&O should have sticked with their barebones TV/Audio/ML&NL platform that they achieved with BV11 and Avant (pre-NG), and let people choose the "smart box" of their choice: AppleTV, Nvidia Shield, etc.

In the past, I have paid for the design, materials and quality of BeoVisions (the look & feel) – never for their "smart" platform. I just about never used the smartTV part of BV11, yet I didn't find the TV lacking in any way. With PUC & AppleTV, I had a perfect combination – a combination where I could at any point update the smart part or even change smart platforms without changing the TV.

I guess B&O are too far gone down the rocky TV path to make a 180 and do what for example Loewe does – to return to where they were pre-Android / LG. From my point of view as a customer, they were in a good place when either BV11 or Avant (pre-NG) were their flagship.

Is the BV11-46 still available?

andy_js:

It’s easier (and less harmful to your reputation) to fix the software /before/ giving it to your customers. They should have delayed and doubled down until it was done.

I would have loved to see the test cases they used and the success factors.

Does it turn on? Success. Hmmmm

They couldn’t delay any longer, they were already L A T E ,to the party

They just didn’t have real world test cases, obviously. And they should hang their heads in shame. They took good peoples money.

Moxxey made sense that it makes business sense to kill the erroneous line if it’s not fixable. Obviously there are good working units and I’m happy that their owners are happy and have good working units.

KMA:

So I wonder if LG, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic etc. are making a loss on TVs and make up for it in other product categories, or they make a profit with small margins & high volume (the benefits of economics of scale).

Given how much dealers can discount the mainstream TVs, I think each year the new top-of-the-line models begin with healthy margins, make the profits and then fire sell the rest. For example Sony A1 can now be had at half the launch price, when CES 2018 is right around the corner.

For a small player such as B&O, even with their prices, finding the sweet spot of price/volume must have proven impossible – added with the losses that surely incurred from their software development mishaps which were perceived – rightly so – as an unforgivable lack of quality. In a way, B&O is also trapped in the luxury category, where prices should never come down to dismay the customers who have paid a hefty premium.

My humble opinion is that B&O should have sticked with their barebones TV/Audio/ML&NL platform that they achieved with BV11 and Avant (pre-NG), and let people choose the "smart box" of their choice: AppleTV, Nvidia Shield, etc.

In the past, I have paid for the design, materials and quality of BeoVisions (the look & feel) – never for their "smart" platform. I just about never used the smartTV part of BV11, yet I didn't find the TV lacking in any way. With PUC & AppleTV, I had a perfect combination – a combination where I could at any point update the smart part or even change smart platforms without changing the TV.

I guess B&O are too far gone down the rocky TV path to make a 180 and do what for example Loewe does – to return to where they were pre-Android / LG. From my point of view as a customer, they were in a good place when either BV11 or Avant (pre-NG) were their flagship. KMA

B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.

And the reason that the luxury market exists is because people who are in it want something unique that not everyone else does.

No, I bought a few at a good price when they were being discontinued as it's a great TV, but all gone now...

I have the same problems with my Beovision 14-40. I also have problems with software not updating on the Beosound Moment. The company is not what it was 10 years ago.

Does anyone know if/when there will be a software update for BV14?

I’m watching a YouTube film here which was released 6 days ago, stating that Android tv will be extinct within the year. What will 14 users do then?

Chris Townsend:

I’m watching a YouTube film here which was released 6 days ago, stating that Android tv will be extinct within the year. What will 14 users do then?

The irony of the 14 is that the 11 was as good as it gets.

The number of product failures, disappointments, and abandonments in the last few years is outrageous. Companies go to great lengths to justify or hide from their errors, and angry people find ways to vent their frustration at any cost. In between, I believe in economic justice. History says those some of those 14 people will find out how good B&Os legal department is. 

Chris Townsend:

I’m watching a YouTube film here which was released 6 days ago, stating that Android tv will be extinct within the year.

I doubt that. According to flatpanels, Sony, TCL and Philips are continuing to use the platform.

Chris Townsend:

I’m watching a YouTube film here which was released 6 days ago, stating that Android tv will be extinct within the year. What will 14 users do then? Beolit 15, Beoplay A2, H6/H2, Form 2, Beoplay A3, Beovision 5-42 connected to a DVD1

B&o Tvs like B&o solus independent dealers are nearly a thing of the past...

So I hear..

Aussie Michael:

And the reason that the luxury market exists is because people who are in it want something unique that not everyone else does.

But luxury means you don't have to think about standard functions, the standard is given, you just have to think about the "luxury parts" you pay for. Let's compare it with luxury cars. It;s nice to choose the cow which spends the leather and the tree which spends the wood if you don't have to think about the technical considerations. Who would buy a Bentley with their perfect materials inside and outside when the maximum speed was 190 km/h? Why should i buy a VW Golf, if i had that kind of Bentley just because i wanna drive 200+ km/h.

Why should i buy a luxury tv, when the horsepower of the tv is not standard anymore the day it arrives at the market.

Why do i have to buy and use a 3rd Party device, because "standard apps" don't work. 

The perfect aluminium frame, the motorized stands and the wooden frets and the wonderful sound are wonderful luxurious and expensive parts of a tv, but not the main part if you buy a tv. The main part today is screen quality, size and a just standard smart platform.

poodleboy:

Chris Townsend:

I’m watching a YouTube film here which was released 6 days ago, stating that Android tv will be extinct within the year. What will 14 users do then?

The irony of the 14 is that the 11 was as good as it gets.

The number of product failures, disappointments, and abandonments in the last few years is outrageous. Companies go to great lengths to justify or hide from their errors, and angry people find ways to vent their frustration at any cost. In between, I believe in economic justice. History says those some of those 14 people will find out how good B&Os legal department is. 

I agree, it's shameful how B&O's products have been pushed out not ready for prime time and then patched, poorly (updates breaking things, often more than they seem to fix) and then drop them when they can't get them right, leaving the poor customer out to dry, feeling like a fool. They seem to be caught between having to rush things out for investor/investment/stock price reasons so they appear to be in good shape, and not having the time to adequately plan their product porfolio in an integrated manner, and not adequately get their hardware and software working properly. It's the "get it out in a hurry and we'll fix it later" approach and it's killing the brand's reputation. The average lifetime of a new B&O product now seems to be 2-3 years, when before it was measured in decades. My BS9000 for example was marketed for over 20 years, and although it had three versions over the years, it lasted.

The only thing that seems to halfway make this possible is the reduction in development and manufacturing costs associated with outsourcing those functions to another company in China, which has its own issues obviously.

As a long, long time fan of B&O this saddens me greatly, and a pox on the houses of all the B&O management who let this happen, and even encouraged it.

Loewe TVs have their own OS software, I don't think B&O is a smaller company than Loewe ? At least the TV doesn't become obsolete if you haven't made the last update or if there are no more updates from third parties .. Some people will argue that BeoMaster 5 had a proper B&O OS and that it is no longer updated .. which is true: is it so hard to hire a software developer in Denmark?!

Christophe :

Loewe TVs have their own OS software, I don't think B&O is a smaller company than Loewe ? At least the TV doesn't become obsolete if you haven't made the last update or if there are no more updates from third parties .. Some people will argue that BeoMaster 5 had a proper B&O OS and that it is no longer updated .. which is true: is it so hard to hire a software developer in Denmark?!

And Loewe have the Feature stick/drive. 

https://vimeo.com/183446596 for a flavour of their GUI. It's an example in how to make a TV UI clean, simple and beautiful. 

Yup, Loewe are definitely the new B&O.

I've just bought a second hand BV11-46 for the next few years as I am trying desperately to hang on to B&O but as stated a few posts above, the BV11 is, I agree, the last 'proper' BeoVision from Bang & Olufsen that is complete and works.

My next update in several years time will undoubtedly be an OLED and unless B&O make some kind of impressive comeback; well, it's going to be a Loewe set I should imagine. It would have been this time round had it not been that a 55" screen is probably still overkill in my new smaller property.

I totally agree with Jeff's post about the rushing of products to satisfy investors and shareholders etc. B&O have, unfortunately, sold their soul - and a long time ago at that. It's just not a company that has heart and spirit anymore.

Simon. 

I think one of their big mistakes was falling for silicon valley's BS, namely Android TV.  I think many of the issues with B&O's Android TVs are directly traceable to Android itself (i.e. Sony can't even make it work). 

I've seen this movie before:  Management loves the "Android strategy" - license an "industry standard" "platform", and automatically get access to the "smart" apps everyone is clamoring for.  Fewer engineers required?  Even better!  Some of the remaining engineers try to make it work, realize first hand what a pile of crap Android is, and push back.  However, those "trouble makers" get pushed out for being "resistant to change".  The rest put out their resumes.  Some of the best and brightest leave.  The downward spiral goes on... 

 

Is the BV14 now discontinued? If so, good to grab at attractive price?

Christophe :

Loewe TVs have their own OS software, I don't think B&O is a smaller company than Loewe ? At least the TV doesn't become obsolete if you haven't made the last update or if there are no more updates from third parties .. Some people will argue that BeoMaster 5 had a proper B&O OS and that it is no longer updated .. which is true: is it so hard to hire a software developer in Denmark?!

I think Loewe is waaay bigger now on the tv front. If i remember right in 2016 or 2017 they sold 700.000+ units in germany alone. They’re the third biggest seller behind lg and samsung and they all run on the same tv os that’s based on html5.

I was told Loewe wants to work with b&o and help each other out, but b&o doesn’t want to

Mikipidia:

I think Loewe is waaay bigger now on the tv front. If i remember right in 2016 or 2017 they sold 700.000+ units in germany alone. They’re the third biggest seller behind lg and samsung and they all run on the same tv os that’s based on html5.

I was told Loewe wants to work with b&o and help each other out, but b&o doesn’t want to New: Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beovision eclipse.

Mikipedi4 on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/c/mikipedi4

Old: Beolab 1's, beolab 2, beovision 10-46, overture 2300, beolab 8000's, beolab 4000's, beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

Very interesting

Let me clarify my Q.

The BV14 is basically a BV11 with 4k, wooden grill and android. I know most people don’t like android, but i’d anyway use an ATV and the googlecast feature of the bv14.

In this context, is the bv14 a good buy if i find a good deal?

What size BV are you looking to purchase?  If you're going for a 40 or 46 you might not benefit that much from 4K.  In that case I'd suggest going for a BV11 instead.

steve1977:

Let me clarify my Q.

The BV14 is basically a BV11 with 4k, wooden grill and android. I know most people don’t like android, but i’d anyway use an ATV and the googlecast feature of the bv14.

In this context, is the bv14 a good buy if i find a good deal?

I did have a thread on this exact topic, i got some interesting feedback. Most people said dont bother with a 14 and go for an 11

A 14 also has the wifi chip in a different spot and up the top of the TV and also has BT it’s a different “chassis” as B&O call it.

The android is stable from what i read and understand and there is no issues with HDMI just with some apps on the google store.

Completly agree with BV11 UI/UX platform being great and outperforming Andriod/webOS. And when supplemented by a ATV 4 or 5 it does not get much better.

WebOS and Android has no B&O feel to them. Also curtains are missing!

I hope B&O eventually will be able to do a better integration of LG panels to make something like a BV11/BV14 refresh and be able to customize/modifiy the UI/UX og WebOS to make it have some B&O look and feel and visiual simplicity.

Just because we know the meaning of the Smart TV concept I have yet to see it realized in any TV. 

Desrux:

WebOS and Android has no B&O feel to them. Also curtains are missing!

Small clarification - you do have the curtains on Android. At least my Avant NG has them.

And for the record, I’ve been very happy with the TV, stability, and multi-room capability.