ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
The title is the question, basically.
I'm not sure if B&O 'get' that our moaning is because we only want the best for Bang & Olufsen. We come on here because we invest our time talking about the products, using the products, working out ways to integrate, ways to repair, ways to upgrade, and of course actually buying the products. Without being aloof, we're a very visible reference source for potential purchasers - and people read what we have to say on here.
I've often said to employees in Struer that B&O is like our football team. We want the best for them. We want them to win every time. We support them. We moan when they lose. We moan when they have a bad manager. We moan because it matters..
All communication from Struer and BeoWorld seems to have dried up a little of late, but I'd rather we spoke our minds than throwing our hands in the air and whooping after every mess-up they make.
Struer, if you're reading... we care.
Anyway.. that aside. What do you see for Bang & Olufsen in 2018? More store closures? More of the same with regards SW issues? A resurgence of the brand? "Play" basically becoming B&O, and the company is just a mass market manufacturer who props up the name with some amazing Geoff Martin speakers? Could B&O create a new 'Halo' brand for the high-end to capture the audiophiles who won't buckle and buy B&O as they may get ridiculed by their fellow cable enthusiasts?
What do you think is going to happen to the brand we love in 2018? Good or Bad... Over to you guys.
Lee
Personally I think that Play is going to define what is left of Bang & Olufsen. I don't feel there is a market for Bang & Olufsen in TVs anymore, much as I would like there to be. I was going to buy a Loewe Bild 7 but the more I see the LG W7 the more I think I am going to end up with that. Mainstream products are so competitive now and far surpass anything B&O can come out with, so I don't really see much of a platform for B&O anymore aside from perhaps the Play range, but I feel that is limited and has a short lifespan, again due to competition being better priced and in some cases even far better quality. Apple's Home Pod is going to damage the Play range further when released. Simon.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
BeoNut since '75
Thanks for this thread Lee. We've had a lot of threads where we play CEO and offer up what we'd do if we were in charge, but this one asks a much more realistic -- and more interesting question.
I think we all suspect that B&O is going to shrink in some areas and perhaps unexpectedly expand in others. The expansion will likely be in the Play arena, and perhaps in the "true" B&O connected loudspeaker arena. The shrink will be in the everything else B&O makes area. Maybe only one TV: Eclipse. One music system (if you can call it that): Core. Or, shrink even more in that they only non-loudspeaker product they will continue to support would be the BLGW. The reality is that only B&O know exactly where they are making a profit, and the hints we have are that Play is the moneymaker for B&O, and if they're smart they'd invest in what is making them money -- unfortunately, for us, the old fans, that means fewer "true" B&O products.
In the US, I think even more shrinking in the way of stores and general presence. That being said, there is a new store in SoCal, so forecasts may not be as grim as we suspect.
Who knows? We shall see.
Peter the Biker:Maybe they get a visit in Struer by a cheerful bunch of BeoWorlders like in 2012 ... Peter the biker
This small bunch of ‘cheerfull Beoworlders’ could visit the new Innovation Center in Struer...
....the rest could spend their time looking at oldschool B&O products in the museum there.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
I've said for several years now that they need to stick to speakers. Ideally they need the next BL8000, a speaker that stands alone in design, punches above it's weight in performance and forms a stable core of the range, selling well, over the next decade. (It was not the BL18)! The price needs to be pitched at the professional / middle-management market segment rather than the CEO / Sheik. And the design of the range need to be such that they don't look out of place / conflict with each other in the same room.
Also many of us here have been crying out for a universal sound bar, it could sell by the lorry load and they are just about the only speaker manufacturer who doesn't offer one - absolutely incredible really! Again pitched at the right market segment.
The Play stuff in the main is OK but they need to be careful the bad reviews they generate with a poor product(s) doesn't tarnish the brand and especially the mother brand.
Of course, when funds allow, continue the headline developments like the BL90, it generates excitement in the press and showcases the wares.
Stop treating customers as suckers!
Ban boring signatures!
I would like to see our TV prices come down and my margins go up, and if that means moving all manufacturing away from Denmark, then so be it!
Ultimately, I don't think B&O stores will, or can survive without TV sales.
That said, I'm feeling very positive this morning. Arrived at the shop yesterday morning with a mental target of £40k for the four days between Christmas and New Year and with one customer upgrading to Eclipse 65 and another trading in Lab 17 and 19 for Lab 50s - £35k on day one was a good start!
10% off all in stock Play products and whatever I fancy off display products - it's SALE time here in Sheffield!
Happy New Year to all Beoworlders😀
My forecast for B&O is not very positive.
Their main play now is Beoplay and people like me have very little to no interest on that stuff. In the portable electronics, there are many more capable players (Walkman / Headphones etc.... I will later post a picture of my portable set up in the media section) and I do think Apple HomePod will blow away anything in the similar size range.
On the big electronics, where B&O really shines, unfortunately the market may not be as large as B&O may have hoped. On top. they have shot themselves in the foot in markets like USA by very unreasonable pricing versus the European / UK markets. Eclipse is just a non starter for people like me.
Music systems a thing of past now with all my music on a USB drive inserted in Sony / Oppo UHD Blue Ray players.
Shape is another truly innovative product but its application may remain limited to "commercial setting" versus the B&O homes.
I sum it up as bad strategy (or rather no strategy) and a downward spiral with nothing to be called "Anchor" product which BV used to be,
I will continue to relish my BL 5. BL 50, BV 9 and many other small things (BS5 / BM5 have already been laid to rest in a corner as non supported products).
SHEFFIELD:I would like to see our TV prices come down and my margins go up, and if that means moving all manufacturing away from Denmark, then so be it! Ultimately, I don't think B&O stores will, or can survive without TV sales.
Dom
2x BeoSystem 3, BeoSystem 5000, BeoSystem 6500, 2x BeoMaster 7000, 2 pair of BeoLab Penta mk2, AV 7000, Beolab 4000, BeoSound 4000, Playmaker, BeoLab 2500, S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-50, C-75, 3x CX-100, 3x MCL2 link rooms, 3x Beolab 2000, M3, P2, Earset, A8 earphones, A3, 2x 4001 relay, H3, H3 ANC, H6, 2014 Audi S5 with B&O sound, and ambio
Millemissen:This small bunch of ‘cheerfull Beoworlders’ could visit the new Innovation Center in Struer... ....the rest could spend their time looking at oldschool B&O products in the museum there. MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
SHEFFIELD: I would like to see our TV prices come down and my margins go up, and if that means moving all manufacturing away from Denmark, then so be it! Ultimately, I don't think B&O stores will, or can survive without TV sales.
You have a good point there, the point - because you are one of those who know how things work.
If Puncher would have his way, there would be no need for B&O stores (maybe just as a showroom).
You can easily buy a ‘sound bar’ online, so why have a retailer network for that.
As for speakers - B&O speakers are made for cooperating with the Sound Engine of the tv’s/the SoundCenter of the Eclipse.
That is where they shine....
Millemissen: SHEFFIELD: I would like to see our TV prices come down and my margins go up, and if that means moving all manufacturing away from Denmark, then so be it! Ultimately, I don't think B&O stores will, or can survive without TV sales. You have a good point there, the point - because you are one of those who know how things work. If Puncher would have his way, there would be no need for B&O stores (maybe just as a showroom). You can easily buy a ‘sound bar’ online, so why have a retailer network for that. As for speakers - B&O speakers are made for cooperating with the Sound Engine of the tv’s/the SoundCenter of the Eclipse. That is where they shine.... MM
Perhaps you can point me to a single instance where I said shops were uneccessary!!
Soundcentre/Soundbar call ot what you will, it needs to be available separately and at a reasonable price.
Please don't put words in my mouth!!
Puncher: Perhaps you can point me to a single instance where I said shops were uneccessary!! Soundcentre/Soundbar call ot what you will, it needs to be available separately and at a reasonable price. Please don't put words in my mouth!!
I did not put any words in your mouth - you certaily can speak for yourself!
I just pointed at the consequence of thinking that way.
Maybe the problem lies withing the difference between a ‘sound bar’ and an AudioEngine/Soundcenter solution’, which B&O offers....
....a difference, that you obvisiously don’t see.
Millemissen - As for speakers - B&O speakers are made for cooperating with the Sound Engine of the tv’s/the SoundCenter of the Eclipse.
@ Millemissen
That's just how it is. B&O must stick to what they can - create loudspeakers in a beautiful design, and nothing else.Then B & O must adapt the company accordingly. The most important thing is they will be in the future.
Peter Pan: Millemissen - As for speakers - B&O speakers are made for cooperating with the Sound Engine of the tv’s/the SoundCenter of the Eclipse. @ Millemissen Soundcentre/Soundbar call ot what you will, it needs to be available separately and at a reasonable price. That's just how it is. B&O must stick to what they can - create loudspeakers in a beautiful design, and nothing else.Then B & O must adapt the company accordingly. The most important thing is they will be in the future.
@Peter Pan
We can have our likings and meanings, as it pleases us.
What B&O will bring in the future/in 2018, we don’t know.
I am sure they will come up with something - based on the technological progress in the company - that the market wants and that will allow them to survive/be alive also behind 2018.
(Sorry, but I am not a pessimist when talk is about the ability of B&O as a company to stay alive and kicking)
But I am pretty sure, that they won’t return to the former idea of making an insanely expensive ‘just-center-speaker’ for a tv forcing people to buy external speakers too (....I know you would like that idea).
After all they (with the new Avant and the Eclipse) in the last five years have proved that they can make a proper 3.0 speaker solution for a specific tv...
....allowing people to add external speakers, if the need/want to.
The audio engine in the BSys4 and the speakers (BeoLabs version 2 such as BL17/18/20/50/90 etc.) were made from the same stuff = they knowledge and experience of the guys in the Audio Department in Struer.
MM, you're becoming the Baghdad Bob of Struer.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Millemissen: Puncher: Perhaps you can point me to a single instance where I said shops were uneccessary!! Soundcentre/Soundbar call ot what you will, it needs to be available separately and at a reasonable price. Please don't put words in my mouth!! I did not put any words in your mouth - you certaily can speak for yourself! I just pointed at the consequence of thinking that way. Maybe the problem lies withing the difference between a ‘sound bar’ and an AudioEngine/Soundcenter solution’, which B&O offers.... ....a difference, that you obvisiously don’t see. Such a ‘universal soundbar’ may come (or not) - but it will be hard for the B&O stores to survive with such an ‘off-the-shelf’ product. MM
Absolute nonsense - perhaps it would be better if you didn't reply to absolutely everyone's post and take it upon yourself to "reinterpret" what they said for everyone else!
Completely agree.
You don’t see B&W with own stores and so on.
If B&O stores have to survive, television must stay.
A soundbar is simply in the BEOPLAY sector, which is fine and good business just not for the storeowners.
Beovision Harmony 77" 2nd Gen, Beolab 5, Beolab 17, Beosound 1, Beoplay M3, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay Earset, Beoliving Intelligence
Emil Jensen - A soundbar is simply in the BEOPLAY sector, which is fine and good business just not for the storeowners.
@ Emil Jensen
Yes - Maybe not a good price for us, but for the dealers.
Puncher: Absolute nonsense - perhaps it would be better if you didn't reply to absolutely everyone's post and take it upon yourself to "reinterpret" what they said for everyone else!
Punch !!!
Duels: Peter the Biker: Maybe they get a visit in Struer by a cheerful bunch of BeoWorlders like in 2012 ... Peter the biker If it has to be cheerful Beoworlders it will be a very small party.
Peter the Biker: Maybe they get a visit in Struer by a cheerful bunch of BeoWorlders like in 2012 ... Peter the biker
Maybe they get a visit in Struer by a cheerful bunch of BeoWorlders like in 2012 ... Peter the biker
If it has to be cheerful Beoworlders it will be a very small party.
That made me laugh out loud.
9 LEE: Duels: Peter the Biker: Maybe they get a visit in Struer by a cheerful bunch of BeoWorlders like in 2012 ... Peter the biker If it has to be cheerful Beoworlders it will be a very small party. That made me laugh out loud.
Pickled herring and rye bread for the happy ones. Re-education camp for the rest of us, MM acting as camp commandant.
Jeff: Pickled herring and rye bread for the happy ones. Re-education camp for the rest of us, MM acting as camp commandant.
Oh, that’s an honour - however, I am not responsible for the big event........in the museum
MM -
PLAN YOUR VISIT - Opening hours of the museum: 1st September - 30th June. - Push here.
Peter Pan: MM - PLAN YOUR VISIT -
PLAN YOUR VISIT -
No plans for the coming months - however, I’ve been there several times..
When was your last visit there - did you see the new ‘installation’ (Lyduniverset) there?
Ford drops Sony Premium Sound. In 2018, Ford will have the B & O Play Sound System. -
Click here.
Read Ford and Harmon - they have bought the name, the reputation, lets see how long its a desirable!
Puncher:Read Ford and Harmon - they have bought the name, the reputation, lets see how long its a desirable! Ban boring signatures!
Speakers. I would like to see affordable real stereo speakers. Something for also the younger people upgrading from todays Play products.
Take the Beolab 4. I just bought a pair of (old) Beolab 4 and a Beoplay Hub device just for the fun of it from a friendly dealer. Connected to TV via optical. It sounds really great. I wish you could buy something like the Beolab 4 in the future.
Software. I think they will go with something like PlayFi or Blackfire tech etc.
TV. A new affordable TV set. I would buy an up-to-date V1 with rock solid firmware. No-brainer.
Sound system. Make some product, so I wont have to use my phone or tablet. Simple. Nothing much. Maybe just an add-on to the core. Extending the Essence remote with an information display.
Puncher: Read Ford and Harmon - they have bought the name, the reputation, lets see how long its a desirable!
One of my best friends worked at Harman for years in OEM autosound, now he's with Panasonic. His take on it carries weight with me, that is that Harman is going to do with B&O car audio exactly what it has done and still does with every other brand it absorbs. Your speaker grills in the car may say Harman, Infinity, JBL, B&O, whatever, but the underlying electronics and drivers will be the same. Their approach uses standardized amp/eq/dsp modules and head units and drivers with product differentiation being solely a matter of cosmetics. Makes perfect sense from the standpoint of Harman's business model. When he worked there he said he had a hard time telling which brand he was allegedly working with, you couldn't tell it by the hardware.
Harman is like a giant amoeba that sucks up brands and homogenizes them into being identical.
I work at Ford and I was pretty convinced when the Harman guy explained what they'd done for the Beoplay application he demonstrated to me as an Product Development employee. Nothing hi-fi but exaggerated separation and "enhanced" settings. I hope the brand doesn't get diluted and I know how important audio effect is to buyers so both companies should benefit perhaps introducing their customers to one another's brands.
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
"TV. A new affordable TV set. I would buy an up-to-date V1 with rock solid firmware. No-brainer."
Ive never had issues with the V1 or aspired to anything more chintzy so that would be great.
Jeff:. Harman is like a giant amoeba that sucks up brands and homogenizes them into being identical.
I wanted to believe in something and you've ruined it for me!
Simonbeo:I wanted to believe in something and you've ruined it for me! Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8 , MX 5500 . Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.