ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Isnt it time for a new beosystem with some current tech (4k; HDR; more than one HDMI output)? I want to build a home cinema setup but Bang&Olufsen don't really have a good option at the moment! With the Beovision 7 it was no problem, but the current generation TV's don't have an output anymore, which is annoying. Maybe create something like the Beosound core, with future software keeping the product up to date. Am I the only one interested in a new beosystem, or is there an actual market for it?
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I guess the op is asking for a replacement for the BSys4 - something that in other threads was named ‘BeoSystem 5’.
For a home cinema solution it sure would be fine - however, will people want to pay the price, that B&O would have to charge for it.
Nowadays - with bigger and bigger displays - most people would want such a system for a tv of their own choice.
With the current disbelief that B&O can make anything right, I see little ‘market’ for such a device....
......at least amongst the Beoworlders ;-)
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
One wonders why it has to be as expensive as say the Beosystem 4. I can buy an AVR with amps, Audissey auto setup and mic, and video processing, for less than a thousand dollars.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Jeff: One wonders why it has to be as expensive as say the Beosystem 4. I can buy an AVR with amps, Audissey auto setup and mic, and video processing, for less than a thousand dollars.
Because it is built with the Dane's long tradition, craftsmanship and "Bang & Olufsen" on the nameplate, my good man!
Millemissen: I guess the op is asking for a replacement for the BSys4 - something that in other threads was named ‘BeoSystem 5’. For a home cinema solution it sure would be fine - however, will people want to pay the price, that B&O would have to charge for it. Nowadays - with bigger and bigger displays - most people would want such a system for a tv of their own choice. With the current disbelief that B&O can make anything right, I see little ‘market’ for such a device.... ......at least amongst the Beoworlders ;-) MM
I think there is a market, why wouldn't there be? Also, the "Sound Bar" of the Beovision Eclipse is, at least to my understanding, basically a Beosystem capable of HDR and 4k, so why not take the technology and put it in a box and sell it for 3000€-4000€?
@Beosince98
It sure is possible - but as I wrote above, will (enough) people want to pay the price?
Reading Jeff’s comment to this, there will be little understanding why a ‘BeoSystem 5’ should be different from an ordinary AVR....and why B&O would have to charge more.
The Beosystem 4 included Video and Audio engines. Given that B&O has given up with TV engineering and pictures processing in favour of off the shelf TV's from LG then the Beosystem 5 need only be the Audio engine.
There could be several versions - 1 with central speakers as per the existing Eclipse unit but not permanently affixed to the TV. A second version could be the audio engine only, without internal speakers or amplifiers. This would in essence be an audio DSP in a box with inputs and outputs.
My understanding of the Eclipse "soundbar " from a video perspective is that it merely adds a video overlay to the incoming video signal (passed through from the TV) for the purpose of dedicated menus etc. and that it has nothing to do with any of the TV performance properties (4K, HDR etc). Can anyone confirm or refute this?
Ban boring signatures!
Puncher: The Beosystem 4 included Video and Audio engines. Given that B&O has given up with TV engineering and pictures processing in favour of off the shelf TV's from LG then the Beosystem 5 need only be the Audio engine. There could be several versions - 1 with central speakers as per the existing Eclipse unit but not permanently affixed to the TV. A second version could be the audio engine only, without internal speakers or amplifiers. This would in essence be an audio DSP in a box with inputs and outputs. My understanding of the Eclipse "soundbar " from a video perspective is that it merely adds a video overlay to the incoming video signal (passed through from the TV) for the purpose of dedicated menus etc. and that it has nothing to do with any of the TV performance properties (4K, HDR etc). Can anyone confirm or refute this?
It would actually be quite interesting if someone could put the HDMI output from the Eclipse "Soundbar" into an ordinary TV to see what happens
Millemissen: @Beosince98 It sure is possible - but as I wrote above, will (enough) people want to pay the price? Reading Jeff’s comment to this, there will be little understanding why a ‘BeoSystem 5’ should be different from an ordinary AVR....and why B&O would have to charge more. MM
I think there are many people that appreciate the one remote concept and the general B&O ecosystem. I think if they can make it relatively affordable, lets say 3000€, there would definitely be people buying the product. If the Eclipse Soundbar does what I think, they would simply have to repackage the electronics, which could be done at a reasonable cost!
Lets not mix up the soundbar of the Eclipse with being near-BS5.
If they make a "BS5", it will likely not include the speaker / soundbar like the Eclipse soundbar (not for 3/4k euros anyway). It will be an updated version of the 4 with respect to basic purpose, perhaps with more than 1 output. From what i have been told, they have chosen a third party to provide the video engine part of a "BS5". If that's Oppo, then all good, and will make it more attractive for some potential buyers i would have thought.
Despite what i was told about a potential BS5, i'm unconvinced it will appear - surely the BS3 / 4 made sense as a product when TV's in general didnt have the additional (advanced) sound signal management ability, let alone the video processing capacity (most TV's anyway).
These days, don't more of them have a lot of that ability?
Regardless, i would be surprised if a BS5 did play nice (offer its full functionality) with non-B&O televisions.
And as for price and future proofing (i know), will the imminence of HDMI 2.1 slow down the product development? That, in addition to the need to integrate upcoming voice integration (coming to B&O products i believe), suggests that we shouldn't hold our breath, much as i'd like to see them release a good product that people want.
Ramble over.
Agree.
I'd buy some to replace my Beosystem 3s (I have 3 of them)
Beosince98: It would actually be quite interesting if someone could put the HDMI output from the Eclipse "Soundbar" into an ordinary TV to see what happens
That would be an interesting experiment!
Although I am pretty sure, that it won’t work as some people would expect.
As far as I am aware, the controlling via remote goes through the LG-part and not directly to the SoundCenter.
I’d question if that would be possible with an x-tv!
However, if someone could do the test (on an LG as well as on a non-LG tv-part) with success, I’d gladly stand corrected.
I'm not sure anyone is claiming this will work now, merely that it is entirely feasible and could be made to work on a new product.
My understanding is that it is only video pass through. The menus are integreted in the LG menu. B&O have different SW so it is not a off the shelf LG. But still it should be easy to make an user interface.
But as someone wrote, they will properly wait for HDMI 2,1 or they will have to make a new one in a year.
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Note:
The 2018 LG tv’s won’t have HDMI 2.1....
....so it will be a long wait, I guess.
Indeed, i doubt any of the 2018 models from the major brands will have 2.1.
From what i understand much f this year will be spent beta testing the recently agreed protocols.
Some of the new protocols may be able to be worked through a 2.0 connection (with software updates perhaps), but full protocol adoption is a 2019 thing.
Still unconvinced a BS5 will see the light of day, despite what i was told.
Puncher: I'm not sure anyone is claiming this will work now, merely that it is entirely feasible and could be made to work on a new product.
I am sure you are right on that one.
We’ll have to wait and see.
The reason why I found the question (connecting an x-tv to the SoundCenter directly) interesting is,
that I have seen someone making obscure calculations of what a SoundCenter (solo) cost.
He simply subtracted the price of a standart LG-C7 tv from the price of an Eclipse....
.....and concluded, that the SoundCenter is veeery expensive.
http://www.hifi4all.dk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42140&PN=1&TPN=52
Telling people that the LG-part of the Eclipse is not a standart LG-tv did not impress them much.
Making this experiment could prove them wrong (I suppose)!
Sandyb: If they make a "BS5"...
If they make a "BS5"...
No way is a BS5 happening. For three solid reasons:
Firstly, there's absolutely no requirement for it whatsoever. B&O has already stated their partnership with LG is due to LG being able to produce a screen that's more cost-effective than B&O developing from scratch. I don't mean a panel, I mean the picture processing and elements required to power the TV.
Secondly, B&O doesn't have a video processing department, which is kind of essential for developing a BS5, particularly one that can compete with the latest standards (8K etc).
Thirdly, it's simply too expensive and the development costs alone wouldn't be recouped by the handful of people on this board who say they will buy one. Let's face it, we're talking a lot of development and, as we know, it's soon out of date, so what's the point?
I share your scepticism, though perhaps for different reasons.
As i mentioned above, i am not entirely clear whether its as required as it was when the 3 or 4 came out.
All i was relaying though was what i was told, that one is being developed (having been previously considered and benched as an idea, it is apparently back on), and the video engine part being done by third party who has also been selected. So the lack of in house video department being therefore less of an issue. All of which i did mention previously.
But in the end, i would be surprised if a BS5 did see the light of day, more because the use case is a little less obvious to me, and a small market as you say.
I would like to see a BeoSystem 5 as a connection hub for devices, with PUC, menu overlay, and support of Dolby Atmos and other 3D sound standards. At this point, we really don't need B&O interjecting its own video processing. We just need a video pass-through. There have been some disasters with B&O trying to process video. I recall the horrid super-saturation of color of the AV7000. Also, remember how the BeoSystem 1 would only accept 1080i video and not 720p? Finally, I shudder to think of the ghostly, blurred imaging that B&O used with the BeoSystem 1 for fast motion.
Millemissen:I am sure you are right on that one. We’ll have to wait and see. The reason why I found the question (connecting an x-tv to the SoundCenter directly) interesting is, that I have seen someone making obscure calculations of what a SoundCenter (solo) cost. He simply subtracted the price of a standart LG-C7 tv from the price of an Eclipse.... .....and concluded, that the SoundCenter is veeery expensive. http://www.hifi4all.dk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42140&PN=1&TPN=52 Telling people that the LG-part of the Eclipse is not a standart LG-tv did not impress them much. Making this experiment could prove them wrong (I suppose)! MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
.....and for completeness' sake, can you give the AUS price for the LG C7?
@moxxy.
I'm chuckling at your absolute certainty in your comments. Do you have access to B&O's product management department which we don't know about?
Anyhow, IF it is made, it would be an elegant solution to an exit out of TVs and into supporting devices for whole home audio/video and home automation.
Contrary to what you say, there would be no need for any picture processing as that would be done at the monitor anyway - just switching would be enough. Also, Your comment on development costs holds no water as you have no idea how much it would cost (unless, you DO have access to their PM department) and flies in the face of the comment from a B&O dealer mentioned above about it being outsourced.
As for sales numbers - well, it seems that not only you have access to their PM group, but also their marketing group! Sorry if this seems overly sarcastic, but I think just because you don't need one, it doesn't mean others won't - as I've said, I'd buy 3 (notional) BS5s to replace my BS3s - I'm not bothering with the BS4 as it adds nothing for me. Maybe I'm atypical, but it would solve an issue about the ever rising cost of B&O's TVs against the ever decreasing cost of the south-east asian manufacturers' TVs. Pair a BS5 with a TV and a consumer would be able to update their screen at a much lower cost and still use B&O features (as mentioned above) - with a caveat about HDMI version upgrades etc.etc - which some could anyway be handled in a BS5 firmware update potentially.
frog: @moxxy. I'm chuckling at your absolute certainty in your comments. Do you have access to B&O's product management department which we don't know about? Anyhow, IF it is made, it would be an elegant solution to an exit out of TVs and into supporting devices for whole home audio/video and home automation. Contrary to what you say, there would be no need for any picture processing as that would be done at the monitor anyway - just switching would be enough. Also, Your comment on development costs holds no water as you have no idea how much it would cost (unless, you DO have access to their PM department) and flies in the face of the comment from a B&O dealer mentioned above about it being outsourced. As for sales numbers - well, it seems that not only you have access to their PM group, but also their marketing group! Sorry if this seems overly sarcastic, but I think just because you don't need one, it doesn't mean others won't - as I've said, I'd buy 3 (notional) BS5s to replace my BS3s - I'm not bothering with the BS4 as it adds nothing for me. Maybe I'm atypical, but it would solve an issue about the ever rising cost of B&O's TVs against the ever decreasing cost of the south-east asian manufacturers' TVs. Pair a BS5 with a TV and a consumer would be able to update their screen at a much lower cost and still use B&O features (as mentioned above) - with a caveat about HDMI version upgrades etc.etc - which some could anyway be handled in a BS5 firmware update potentially.
@Frog
I agree 100% with everything you just said.
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Yes,it would be nice to have Beosystem 5.But,there is obviously strong reason why B&O does not want to make something like ALMANDO.
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OldJack: Yes,it would be nice to have Beosystem 5.But,there is obviously strong reason why B&O does not want to make something like ALMANDO.
Almando isn't even close to what a BeoSystem is. B&O has had an AV processor as part of its product portfolio for 25 year: AV 7000, BeoSystem 1, BeoSystem 2, BeoSystem 3, and now BeoSystem 4.
And all 4 Beosystems now outdated
I agree there is no need for a video engine. Give me up to date surround system, a video switch and puc and i would buy ne in a second.
Format 0 😀😎
I’d add in NL as a video/Audio master and that would be a killer product.
Jup and we are waiting. But time is moving fast, BV are no longer lasting and everybody wants the cheap deal. They should just focus on what’s important, comfort, good high end products. An Eclips isn’t, just another lame duck like Rauber said about the beosystem 4. Simple elegant, we can use an apple tv, Oppo etc. I have paid in 15 years ago 300 euro for a dvd controller, simple scart. I do not care, it just worked. Set and forget.
I haven”t bought anything exciting in the last 5 years, last big purchase 2010 BV7 and I am desperate in getting annother tv however what to buy? A system 4 with workarounds or an Eclips which you like or hate? We need a beosystem 5 with a simple passthrough a few puc and a good surround. And I would pay more than 4K for it in an instant.
iit cannot be so hard to make, but headphones are easier to market and cheaper to make. ROI is killing the brand imho.
chucky: Jup and we are waiting. But time is moving fast, BV are no longer lasting and everybody wants the cheap deal. They should just focus on what’s important, comfort, good high end products. An Eclips isn’t, just another lame duck like Rauber said about the beosystem 4. Simple elegant, we can use an apple tv, Oppo etc. I have paid in 15 years ago 300 euro for a dvd controller, simple scart. I do not care, it just worked. Set and forget. I haven”t bought anything exciting in the last 5 years, last big purchase 2010 BV7 and I am desperate in getting annother tv however what to buy? A system 4 with workarounds or an Eclips which you like or hate? We need a beosystem 5 with a simple passthrough a few puc and a good surround. And I would pay more than 4K for it in an instant. iit cannot be so hard to make, but headphones are easier to market and cheaper to make. ROI is killing the brand imho.
+1
frog: @moxxy. I'm chuckling at your absolute certainty in your comments. Do you have access to B&O's product management department which we don't know about?
I am 100% certain - I can assure you, there is no new BeoSystem coming out. Wishful thinking from a few hardcore enthusiasts. B&O has no intention of producing a separate system to drive screens (or similar) in 2018.
But, hey, this is a forum. So wish away.
So wish away.
moxxey:I am 100% certain - I can assure you, there is no new BeoSystem coming out. Wishful thinking from a few hardcore enthusiasts. B&O has no intention of producing a separate system to drive screens (or similar) in 2018. But, hey, this is a forum. So wish away.
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@moxxy,
Looks like it's you who are wishing. Not sure why.
Wasn't there another post saying that the project was shelved, but is now on again with a 3rd party?
Unless you can reveal your sources, I tend to believe a dealer who may be getting better info.
@Peter Pan,
There are some problems with the amount of i/o in your sketch. Would need a number of HDMI inputs (probably 6 or more) plus two HDMI out, a IR input, a NL connection, some digital audio out. At least 8 power link out.
And last of all, power in.
Oh, and a bunch of PUC outputs. One for each HDMI in.
Mikipedia: But even in the eclipse now, nothing b&o drives the screen right? So why would they need to include that? Would it not be possible to hook up the soundcenter to any other hdmi cec ported tv? As in if the soundcenter from the 55” would/could/can work on the 65” lg screen(it just wouldn’t fit together). So basicly a super soundbar, but not a new bs4 sucsessor, more like a b&o’yfied sonos if that makes any sense
But even in the eclipse now, nothing b&o drives the screen right? So why would they need to include that? Would it not be possible to hook up the soundcenter to any other hdmi cec ported tv? As in if the soundcenter from the 55” would/could/can work on the 65” lg screen(it just wouldn’t fit together). So basicly a super soundbar, but not a new bs4 sucsessor, more like a b&o’yfied sonos if that makes any sense
Since you have the Eclipse, you are predestinied to make this test for us (doesn’t have to be a 65” version).
Just to show, what happens, when you connect a stock LG C7 to the SoundCenter ;-)