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I just finished a deal with an European member of Beoworld, Over here in Mex. and in the US nearly everybody has at least one Credit card, and we pay nearly everything with cards, even small buys below USD 5.00.
Is it normal in EU, not to have a credit card. I have seen in more places in like Germany and DK, that many smaller restaurants and shops, only accepts one kind of card, mostly Master or Visa, some shops or small bars none at all. Traveling I carry only a small amount of cash, but 3 different brands of cards, but even so I ran into problems a couple of times.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Almost all transactions are done by card in the UK. Debit and credit cards are the norm. The Eu varies, I believe.
Peter
Søren Mexico:Is it normal in EU, not to have a credit card.
In Germany, it didn't used to be. I got caught out a couple of times in Germany trying to pay by card. Over here in the UK we'd put an expensive restaurant bill on our card. We'd never pay by cash. In fact, the restaurant would probably think you were trying to launder fake notes if you attempted to pay for a large bill in cash.
In Germany, it's the other way around. I took our German office for a meal once - there were about 12 of us in total. We all had a few courses, beer and asked for the bill. Wasn't cheap. I asked to pay and a bloke appeared at the table with a purse attached to his waist. They ONLY accepted cash! I didn't have enough; everyone had to chip in :)
Went for a meal in a restaurant pizza chain. Bizarrely, even in a chain, they didn't take cards either. Simply as no-one in Germany pays for food by card. Well, they didn't a few years ago. Probably changed a bit by now, but I got a shock over there, for sure.
Had the same in DK, invited my small family to dine in the best restaurant in town, the Bill was some DKr, 8,000.00 , and who runs around with 1,600.00 US in cash, I had to go to ACM and run 3 different cards through it, as luck will there was an ACM nearby, ACMs are few in DK, outside the citys forget it.
The common cards work in pretty much every kiosk in Finland - only those trying to pay with Diners' or Amex may have to resort to another card in many places. An online card payment system may cost as little as 35 euros per month for the merchant, so why not.
The most remote villages may have lost their last ATM in recent years, but any place you could possibly call a "town" will have lots of them.
At our shop the balance between cash / card is nowadays something like 30/70%. The groups that pay with cash are most often those who get their income without receipt, some people don't want the wife to see in the balance where the money has gone, some people can't have money on their accounts as the repo men would take them immediately, and lastly the Russians have deep pockets and only pay in cash...
--mika
Without cards, in Mexico the crime rate would go up some 100 %, in 20 years I have been robbed 3 times, all 3 times with a pistol to or near my head.
The credit card companies are irresponsible, they give cards to anyone, some card brands have interest rates up to 50% annual, once a year they want a fee for the card, I normally tells them to cancel my card or no or deduced fee, it works with some not all.
I have a company card which I'm allowed to use for business purposes only. Amex first but not always accepted especially in the Middle East countries. Master now!
In Holland it's not common to use CC, we prefer to pay cash.
Brengen & Ophalen
Here in the US ATMs, debit cards, and credit cards are king. And many people don't know how to handle it and get in way over their heads in debt. I use mine a lot at restaurants and such, but I always pay off the bill each month. It's just easier, especially given the lack of math skills most wait staff seem to possess. Making change seems to be a mathematical problem akin to special relativity.
Not carrying a large amount of cash does have obvious advantages with respect to crime, but then here it's not hard to get a concealed firearms license, and more people carry than you might think. Tends to make the criminals a tad less aggressive not knowing, which is why the crooks here tend to prey primarily on tourists. Despite what the naysayers have said, every state that adopted concealed carry laws saw reductions in violent crime. Not to stray into too controversial a topic here.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
cleviebaby has a good point, i agree
Cards used to be for showing off with in the UK in the 70's and 80's. In the 90's the swing to plastic started- and now i'd say almost all purchases are made on them. You just need to stand in the queue at the supermarket and watch to see that hardly anyone uses cash.
Even at LifeStyle AV, when a customer whips out a large wad of cash your first thought is "oh, hello - where did that come from then?!" I think the card culture is so ingrained in us now that when you see cash for anything more than a coffee, a newspaper or a sandwich it's quite strange. How things have changed!!
Personally, I pay for everything on my Amex Platinum (some other people on this forum use this card) and I do this because I get points for it - which I then transfer to Air Miles. For the last 6 months buying the shopping, filling the car up, paying bills and making everyday purchases I've amassed enough points to upgrade with Virgin Atlantic to Upper Class for a flight to Dubai for my Son and I .. I'd have paid cash for all that shopping before, but now the card makes sense. I've also had room upgrades, freebies and some jaw-dropping deals from the Travel Concierge which have already saved me around 7 times the annual £450 fee so far this year.
That said, not everywhere takes Amex - so I have a Mastercard and Visa Debit as back-up. All bases are covered.
For some, cards make sense - for others, not. As for not having cashpoints, I'd go cold turkey if i thought I couldn't get to one if needed!! In the UK there are more cashpoints than rats in most cities.. LOL
Lee
Hi,
No such problems in France.
Germany can sometimes be a problem. They prefer bank transfers but that's not common here, so the French banks will charge them.
Jacques
chartz: Germany can sometimes be a problem.
Germany can sometimes be a problem.
And were proud of it.
Seriously, though: I'm one of the very few people in my circle of friends who actually has a (as in 1) credit card. And I only got that one for traveling. Will never forget that time we ran out of gas somewhere in rural northern Sweden in the middle of the night, pulled into an automated gas station and it wouldn't accept anyones ec-Cards. Because that we have - nearly everyone has an ec-Card (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cash), which you can use to pay in many places (also in many places that wouldn't accept credit cards, since they don't have to cut the credit card companies a big commission). ec-Cards are, in a way, more financially responsible - you don't take a credit, but the money is directly withdrawn from your checking account.
But still, we pay most things in cash. I still think it a strange notion to pay by card in a restaurant or even a bar. Suppose we just like to see how much we are paying, otherwise you easily lose sight of it.
Yes, I see what you mean. In France we can choose whether we prefer our cards to be credit or cash. Most of us use immediate debit cards. But they still are Visa, Mastercards, etc.
So like you, my Mastercard draws money directly and immediately from my account.
Paying with a card is possible everywhere, even if it's for one Euro! Doesn't seem strange to us, that's for sure! Even my 18-year-old twins have one!
chartz:Paying with a card is possible everywhere, even if it's for one Euro!
Try that in Germany and you'll get strange looks. Most places that actually do accept cards (e.g. supermarkets and such) have signs like "no card payments under 5/10€".
I normally don't use cash at all (and travelling most of time on bike, mustn't worry about change for parking neither) and pay almost for everything via card, paypal or, transfer.
In the time when I was active in field and travelled a lot, used to have American Express and Visa, and back than frequent flyer and member cards, nowadays I own just two cards: Master Card (debit, but in some places recognized as credit card) with free Euro card to it and Visa as back up and all that (considering I pay on time) cost me less than £125/year.
Unfortunately there are lots of places where cash is only valid method of payment and others charging you for the privilege to pay via card , imposing minimal spending is quiet common, but as lee said there is more ATM's than rats in some towns, but some charge extortionate amounts of money on top of charge (Not the case of my bank - thanks goodness) from card issuer ......
bob
Don't worry - be Happy
Lee mentions a good reason to use a card, the points if you have that kind of card. My in-laws had a small gift shop business and bought all of their stock on a card with points. They got enough airline miles to fly to the moon and back. They went to India, Thailand, and still had enough leftover to get my wife to Hawaii twice when I went there on business, and have enough to get us to Rome next year. So there can be advantages.
What bugs me is getting behind a person buying something cheap on a card, like a few bucks. Slows everything down, especially at fast food places.
ablaumeise: chartz:Paying with a card is possible everywhere, even if it's for one Euro! Try that in Germany and you'll get strange looks. Most places that actually do accept cards (e.g. supermarkets and such) have signs like "no card payments under 5/10€".
Paying with 200 or 500 EUR notes is almost refused everywhere too (I don't speak about to pay 2 euros with a 200 EUR note, but even to pay 200 EUR with a 200 EUR note is rarely possible)
I agree with both of the statements, to me (it's just personal circumstances really) is more important cash back on my card :)
My personal experience is the other way around - people paying by cash take ages, transaction is usually approved quicker than the pin typed in, but it may to do with the type of card its colour and person using it...
Jeff: Lee mentions a good reason to use a card, the points if you have that kind of card. My in-laws had a small gift shop business and bought all of their stock on a card with points. They got enough airline miles to fly to the moon and back. They went to India, Thailand, and still had enough leftover to get my wife to Hawaii twice when I went there on business, and have enough to get us to Rome next year. So there can be advantages. What bugs me is getting behind a person buying something cheap on a card, like a few bucks. Slows everything down, especially at fast food places.
Spot on Cleve,
but one mustn't forget that was how the economic boom first started (charge and credit cards) money awareness and managing budget/payment skills of user wasn't taken into consideration or account
the main thing is spend, spend & spend more ("don't worry how you pay it back - at least now that is, later your house be repossessed", don't let that small glitch stop you to enjoy yourselves... )
P.S. must I really be so grumpy....
Cleviebaby:Maybe this saner view of credit is why northern European economies are in a somewhat healthier economic position than those where credit, either explicitly or implicitly, is the norm. Oh dear, have I said something contentious! Cleve
Oh dear, have I said something contentious!
Cleve
oli: 15 EUR in France is the minimum to pay by card almost everywhere, and do you believe that, even cash is not always accepted !! Paying with 200 or 500 EUR notes is almost refused everywhere too (I don't speak about to pay 2 euros with a 200 EUR note, but even to pay 200 EUR with a 200 EUR note is rarely possible)
15 EUR in France is the minimum to pay by card almost everywhere, and do you believe that, even cash is not always accepted !!
Where do you live Oli(vier)?
Because where I live (admittedly, in the country) it isn't a problem.
A €200 note? Never actually seen one! Even 50 and 100 notes are scarcely seen.
ablaumeise: Because that we have - nearly everyone has an ec-Card (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cash),
Because that we have - nearly everyone has an ec-Card (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cash),
Actually it is now called "Maestro Card", the wiki needs to be updated on that, I guess. It also has the advantage that the seller knows the payment will be covered in any case, which is not always the case with credit cards. Usually the Maestro Card is limited to a fixed amount or to your account limit. My B&O dealer would easily accept cash or Maestro card (usually he is sending me a bill, though ). I think if I try next time to offer a credit card, I guess the reaction would be a bit irritated, probably asking for another payment method.
It happened to me one day buying some clothing in a boutique, offering my Visa, that the guy offered me a discount, if I was willing to pay cash! That is because of the fee, ablaumeise reasonably mentioned. It is also the reason, why you should have usually minimum a Visa or Master card, when travelling in Germany. If you show up with your Amex, they sometimes refuse to accept it, even if it is mentioned as accepted card. Amex charges the highest fees as far as I know to the seller. And Diners I do not know anybody around me having this card.
There is also a difference in german urban and rural sites. If you happen to be in a rural area in Germany, cash is king, because traditionally people like to see the money they get or have, meaning that this is "real" money. If you can pay cash, you are perceived as somebody trustworthy with money .
Kind regards,
Rolf
I am surprised no one has mentioned Contactless payments which are becoming more popular here in the UK. Even Barclaycard offer a contactless card that you stick to your mobile phone and then pay by placing the card over the reader.
I believe that smart phone payments are still on there way to the consumer. I have a Starbucks card app for my iPhone and I pay using that instead of finding debit/ credit cards or cash.
It is the way forward.
Beosound 8, Beotime, Beocom 4, Beo 5, Lutron Rania, MacBook 15" (Mid 2015), iPad Pro, iPhone 6S, B&O Play H3, Beolit 12, Form 2, A8 Headphones, B&O Play A1, B&O Essence
chartz: oli: 15 EUR in France is the minimum to pay by card almost everywhere, and do you believe that, even cash is not always accepted !! Paying with 200 or 500 EUR notes is almost refused everywhere too (I don't speak about to pay 2 euros with a 200 EUR note, but even to pay 200 EUR with a 200 EUR note is rarely possible) Where do you live Oli(vier)? Because where I live (admittedly, in the country) it isn't a problem.
That's probably a relic from the old days when cards were imprinted mechanically when you bought something with them. The banks charged for handling them and it didn't make any sense to even send in very small payments. Of course this might still be the case with online transactions with certain banks - but there's no technical reason for it. While developing the point of sale systems we use, I routinely tested it with 10 cent payments with no problems at all, you still receive the money (with the regular comission subtracted from the sum).
The reason Amex (and Diners') aren't that popular is that somebody - guess who - pays for those lovely "free" gifts. Visa, Mastercard and Eurocard typically charge less than 0.5% of the purchase, while Amex can be as much as 4% in some cases. As a merchant, no thanks - so far, not a single sale has gone down because of not accepting them. You also might not get as good a discount when paying with them
chartz:A €200 note? Never actually seen one! Even 50 and 100 notes are scarcely seen.
We get them all the time, €500 as well (thankfully, usually for puchases larger than that). The last time I personally needed them was buying cars in Germany - forget about cards and bank transfers for that, and a 5 cm stack of notes would be awkward to carry...
The most cash-free country I've seen so far is Iceland. In the '90s I still bothered exchanging some currency, no need at all nowadays.
Leslie:n Holland it's not common to use CC, we prefer to pay cash.
Hoi Leslie. You live in another Netherlands than I do?
Because in the country I live in the most transactions are made by Bankcards (PIN). I agree the use of CC isn't common. But Visa and MC are accepted on a lot of places.
Carolpa: Leslie:n Holland it's not common to use CC, we prefer to pay cash. Hoi Leslie. You live in another Netherlands than I do? Because in the country I live in the most transactions are made by Bankcards (PIN). I agree the use of CC isn't common. But Visa and MC are accepted on a lot of places.
Must be since this discussion is about Credit Cards, similar as Credit Loans.
Visa etc. here in Holland are mostly accepted in Hotels, restaurants etc. and not in shops. Ever tried to pay your groceries with a CC other then countries like the UK or France? Some shops do but still not common!
Btw, where is your countrie? As Lee mentioned, showing your CC here in Holland has a show off attitude, but for how long?
tournedos: The last time I personally needed them was buying cars in Germany - forget about cards and bank transfers for that, and a 5 cm stack of notes would be awkward to carry...
The last time I personally needed them was buying cars in Germany - forget about cards and bank transfers for that, and a 5 cm stack of notes would be awkward to carry...
Well, how do you pay for (used) cars in other places?
Personally, I think it's stupid, too. After I sold my old Saab 9000 I was stuck with 3000€ in 500€-bills. Couldn't pay with them anywhere and the next office of my bank was 200km away (other banks wanted a huge provision to exchange them for smaller bills). But then again, what other way is there? When I bought another car half a year later I also paid in cash; there really isn't a way to pay by bank transfer 'on site' and what private seller would accept a credit card?
ablaumeise:Well, how do you pay for (used) cars in other places?
Over here, with a card at a business, or bank transfer between individuals (all you need is a computer with access to the Interwebs - also, a tiny bit of trust if that is from one bank to another so that the sum isn't immediately visible on the receiving account).
I agree cash is actually most straightforward for both parties - at least until the East Europeans (sorry, but that's where they come from) figure out how to make proper counterfeit Euro notes. Then again, I really didn't feel too comfortable leaving ~15,000 at the hotel, and even less when carrying it with me downtown at night...
In Greece you can't even get rid of a 50€ note (at least if you expect any change). It's like leper or some other malady. Over here it's regular money, even the ATMs won't give you smaller than twenties.
Leslie: As Lee mentioned, showing your CC here in Holland has a show off attitude here in Holland...
As Lee mentioned, showing your CC here in Holland has a show off attitude here in Holland...
I also found that in Holland, getting a bundle of notes out to count them before paying for something is considered showing off. As is driving a nice car , which I was told is considered showing off. Also wearing designer clothes, I was told by a Dutchman, would be considered 'showing off' ...
It seems that in Holland, if you have any money, you hide it and don't spend it for fear of being called a show-off ?
Am i wrong here - and have spoken to the wrong people, both in the UK and the Netherlands?
One thing I do love about BeoWorld is the different cultures around the world. It's fascinating reading and learning about them and I sometimes feel very lucky to be able to come to one place and speak to so many people in so many countries !!
From a British perspective, being British, I can with some confidence say that the UK apes America in many ways - especially with consumerism. However, in the UK, when you're working hard and doing well - people don't like it at all and get either suspicious, jealous or blank you completely... but in the US, people who do well and work hard are celebrated. That's pretty much the only thing about the UK I don't like.
I could waffle on, but this is about credit cards not national identities !!
9 LEE:It seems that in Holland, if you have any money, you hide it and don't spend it for fear of being called a show-off ?
Not only Holland, that's also a german tradition!
9 LEE: It seems that in Holland, if you have any money, you hide it and don't spend it for fear of being called a show-off ? Am i wrong here - and have spoken to the wrong people, both in the UK and the Netherlands?
We have a saying here in Holland:
"Doe maar normaal, dan doe je al gek genoeg!"
Showing cards or money (bundles so to say) in public is not done!
Like wearing designer clothing, it's a sort of status!
So, basically, it's true then?
if you are successful in Holland, you should be very careful not to show it ...
I accept that, but find it strange. What would motivate you to be successful if you we're scared of buying anything to reward yourself for it ?
I also never thought Germany was like this too by the way! During the 1980's and early 90's we used to get the German owners of the language schools here in Eastbourne come over in their Mercedes and BMW's with all the latest Hartge/Schnitzer/AMG kits and wheels on, looking frankly bedazzling!!
The reaction from the locals was more "wow!" than anything. We'd never even seen wheels as huge as 18" back then... !!!!
i grew up on a very poor council estate (government housing for people who could not afford to either buy or privately rent) in a poor part of the north of England, and when a nice car drove through our estate (clearly lost of course, no sat nav in those days) the other children used to pick up stones to throw at it. This always made me so angry. "Why don't YOU try and get a car like that?" I used to say..
it usually ended up in the stones being thrown at ME .....
9 LEE: So, basically, it's true then? if you are successful in Holland, you should be very careful not to show it ... I accept that, but find it strange. What would motivate you to be successful if you we're scared of buying anything to reward yourself for it ?
It's part of the culture here and maybe jealousy?
As mentioned, I accept that - and also respect the culture of any country I visit, or talk to people from. I just find it strange, that's all.
I've never been jealous, or even felt jealousy - for anyone. I wish I could play football like Messi or Ronaldo, sing like Michael Buble or Robbie Williams, look like Brad Pitt or George Clooney, or have the spare cash of a Saudi Prince, but I'm happy for them, not jealous. I'd actually love to be like them and have their talent or money - but I never will. I'm not frustrated about it though, I wish them all the best, sincerely.
There are people here on BeoWorld who are more intelligent than I will ever be, and there are people here who are wealthier than I will ever be - but all I have for them is respect and admiration. Maybe it's me who's the odd one ?!!?!!
9 LEE:I also never thought Germany was like this too by the way! During the 1980's and early 90's we used to get the German owners of the language schools here in Eastbourne come over in their Mercedes and BMW's with all the latest Hartge/Schnitzer/AMG kits and wheels on, looking frankly bedazzling!!
That's the one exception - cars. Not that it makes any sense. It's the classic german status symbol, but you can't really link it to personal wealth. Every farmer out in the country drives a rather new Mercedes/BMW.
And if I look at the street in the front of our flat it becomes downright ridiculous. Right now, I live in a rundown GDR Plattenbau in the perceived 'worst' part of town (i.e. the part of town where most everyone speaks russian and the kids occasionally torch cars) and the street is plastered with new & expensive cars. Mostly bought on credit, of course.
But most everything else is considered "showing off". It even starts with classic cars. Buy an Audi A8 and the neighbours will quietly envy you. Buy an 1980s Jaguar XJ and you'll receive angry comments about 'wasting money in this economy' (from total strangers on the street).
I've long given up trying to understand this mentality. Of course there are big differences depending on where you live.
ablaumeise: But most everything else is considered "showing off". It even starts with classic cars...
But most everything else is considered "showing off". It even starts with classic cars...
.... which is the total opposite in central London. If you drive the latest Ferrari, Lamborghini or Bugatti you barely get a second look. People are bored of them.
However, if you drive a mint classic car people give you a thumbs up and a smile .. They are considered 'individual' and for people with taste and style.
It's fascinating how we're all so different, yet live on the same planet ... LOL
9 LEE:.... which is the total opposite in central London.
Isn't central London all tourists anyway?
If you drive a classic east german car (Trabant, Wartburg, Lada, Wolga) you will even get a thumbs up in Weimar.
As always, it depends on where you are. I agree with you, that's what makes it so fascinating.
I'm sure sooner or later someone else from another part of Germany will join the discussion and have a completely different opinion.
In my defense, I live in the low-income part of a city in the low-income part of the country (the GDR is still surprisingly present) and as much as I dislike broad generalisations (I'm german and I hate german beer. Try and explain that to someone from the USA - I've tried and failed oh so often.), I still stand by my observations.
ablaumeise: But most everything else is considered "showing off". It even starts with classic cars. Buy an Audi A8 and the neighbours will quietly envy you. Buy an 1980s Jaguar XJ and you'll receive angry comments about 'wasting money in this economy' (from total strangers on the street). I've long given up trying to understand this mentality. Of course there are big differences depending on where you live.
Well said!
I seam to have "invented" an interesting thread, its amazing to hear about the customs in other countries.
Here in Mexico we have it all, park a new middle or upper class car, in a poor neighborhood, within one hour your new shiny lacquer will have scratches made by keys or other sharp objects, in a rich neighborhood it takes a little longer. Flashing cash, you are sure to be robbed next time you are on the street, I have learned here to leave my car dirty, wheel caps are taken of and saved for future sale, wheel are secured with lock nuts, head lights secured with wires or bolts, and we are using steering wheel poles. I will never buy an expensive exotic car, if I cant afford a 24 hour body guard, heavily armed, When we go to wedding or an important party/dinner, and the FS has to put on the jewelries, she put it her handbag and attach them when arrived at the location. I never carry any expensive watch or gold necklace. I never carry more than 50 USD in cash, I use my credit cards, and I only carry 1 credit card with me, normally.
When I come home to DK, if I carry my Rolex, its a show off, if I pay with a Platinum Amex, in a restaurant having invited some guests, its a show off. I go 1st class in the trains, its a show off. My sister has a 6 M2 guest room, and only one bath in the house, I choose to stay in hotel if my wife and/or my son is with me, My sister understand this, and is probably happy that we use a hotel, but for most people its a show off, My sister lives in a middle class neighborhood BTW. Well, I'm happy that I can do it, I have had times when I could not, as Lee I'm not envious of richer people, I'm a mechanic, not a business man, I know my limits, and is totally satisfied with my life and how I live it. Show off, screw them, I like carrying a nice watch, I like to relax in 1st class, I dont like standing in line for anything and gladly pays extra not to.