Will HomePod 'kill' BeoPlay?

elephant:

HaHaHa

arrrgh

⚔️

I said it was HER Valentines Gift 💝

Methinks she disagrees

🧟‍♀️

Violently BeoNut since '75

It’s the Homer Simpson bowling ball :-)

Mark-N:

I expect it will be fine when I can stereo-pair the HomePod.

I hear different reports on this.

iMore’s Rene Ritchie just discussed this on Macbreak Weekly.

To my surprise he said that he thinks Apple should not use the term Stereo, because it’s not, he said. Not in the ‘old’ way of thinking - two speakers right left Stereo hi-fi setup. He phrased it, IIRC, like ‘more sound’ DSP’ed .. as you add more HomePods.

We’ll see. I don’t like this trend.

jimcaj:

To my surprise he said that he thinks Apple should not use the term Stereo, because it’s not, he said. Not in the ‘old’ way of thinking - two speakers right left Stereo hi-fi setup. He phrased it, IIRC, like ‘more sound’ DSP’ed .. as you add more HomePods.

 

If you are looking for "true" stereo as it is recorded in the studio, then there are lots of options for that.

Even on my main system, two sets of BeoLab 14's and a BeoSystem 4 so much signal processing is going on but I do like the results.  I've accepted the fact that stereo pairing the HomePods will not be traditional stereo since they will both be doing a lot of processing on their respective channels, but I believe I will probably enjoy it even more. It "should" at least fix the out-of-phase portion of that one song.

jimcaj:

We’ll see. I don’t like this trend.

There are a lot of trends in music today that I don't like.  The move to streaming all your music (which requires you to pay a monthly fee to continue to listen to "your" music. The lowering of the quality of the music, etc. But I hope that I can hold onto my way for as long as I can.

Aussie Michael:

It’s the Homer Simpson bowling ball :-)

The HomerPod, then.

MM

Mark-N:

I've accepted the fact that stereo pairing the HomePods will not be traditional stereo since they will both be doing a lot of processing on their respective channels

I do hope you are right. But, thats not what I heard him say though. If he's right, there'll be no channels. Just an extra device - two or three as you add them on ..... That's his point. Yes, lots of devices today are heavily dsp'ed. But you still have your left and right on them. Here, not so. But, again. It can be wrong. That's just what I heard.

Go to 20:05

https://twit.tv/shows/macbreak-weekly/episodes/596?autostart=false

 

 

The only information that I have to go by is the statement on Apple's Homepod page:

Create stereo sound with a second HomePod.

 

Put another HomePod in the same room and they automatically detect and balance each other. With advanced beamforming capabilities, a HomePod pair is able to create a wider, more immersive soundstage than a traditional stereo pair.

I hope this means that the right channel information will be processed by one speaker and the left channel will be processed by the other.

I know its fun to listen to "Bird on a Wire" and point to each instryment if your system is good enough to do that, but I tend not to listen to music that intently.  I like to be able to hear all that is available iin a song, but it's precise location isn't as important to me.  I'll be very happy when I listen to Kanna Hashimoto and the word "bakari" is just as loud as the rest of the sentence, and not canceled out!

 

So some results ... this took a lot to set up !

Mainly because my dab measuring App mutes Apple Music on the iPhone.

So I resorted to AirPlay from my MacBook.

But at least I got the volumes in the tests to be almost consistent.

I also used Ms ElliePhant aka SWMBO as they “ears”.

The songs were Jennifer Warne singing Bird on a Wire and also Famous Blue Raincoat from the same album.

I posted a picture of the rig in Flash my B&O and the MacBook simultaneously Airplaying different targets. In the “integration” thread. So I won’t waste your viewing space here. Airplay to the speakers in this test was via the ATV or direct to the HP — AHP ?

I played these tests:

1. HomePod

2. BV8-40 centre speaker - SPEAKER 1 setting

3. BV8’s BL3s - SPEAKER 2 setting

4. BV8 driving BL3s and BL4s - SPEAKER 4 setting

5. BV8 driving BL3s and BL4s with the BV8’s centre speaker - SPEAKER 5 setting

6. BV8 driving BL3s, BL4s, and BL19 and with the BV8’s centre speaker - SPEAKER 5 setting

7. And back to HomePod

8. And playing 7 while flipping the BV8’s [MUTE] on and off

So my wife ...

Rated 2 > 1

Rated 2 > 3 !

And 4 > 3

Disliked 5

Thought 7 was better 6

Which seeing as 7 was the same 1 perhaps proves these tests were useless

And her reaction to me simultaneously playing 6+7 was to say I had increased the volume; i.e. she did not detect the HomePod as a new source in the mix.

Which was my own 👂 🐘 👂 thought ! The HomePod’s richness was equivalent to #6.

Although clearly the HP by itself had no stereo it did over some spatial awareness so some of the instruments with higher treble appear on the left sound stage or the right sound stage of the HP !

And so in conclusion ?

The HomePod IS good value for money.

Later tests will be ...

A1

A2

A3

BL6K+BL11

BL20

... so stay tuned ... as that may happen tomorrow

Going viral right now:

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/02/12/homepod-audiophile-review-standing-ovation/amp/

https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/

Both B&O and Dali are mentioned in the Reddit comments.

jimcaj:

Going viral right now:

 

 

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/02/12/homepod-audiophile-review-standing-ovation/amp/

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/

 

 

Both B&O and Dali are mentioned in the Reddit comments.

This is really amazing! The 'response curves' are almost flat!

Interesting, and it seems like Apple have made a one box speaker that is excellent for its size.

I'd caution against expecting audiophile room filling sound from something like the HomePod, however clever the DSP is.

Most of the sound quality reviews i've read have it as a bit better than some of the comparable Sonos speakers, but not that much better.

And the review below is much more lukewarm, and is a proper test from an audio sensitive guy. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzbTRMIFL-4

Excellent for its size, good with modern recorded music, but no substitute for left / right normal speakers and not great with older recordings / recordings with dynamic range.

Sandyb:

a proper test from an audio sensitive guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzbTRMIFL-4

Thanks. Very interesting clip. Warms my old hi-fi heart.

Sandyb:

And the review below is much more lukewarm, and is a proper test from an audio sensitive guy. 

I've read a lot of love for the HomePod and a lot of hate especially in comments.  I wonder how much of ones opinion is what you wanted to walk away with initially.  It's not suprising that one $350 speaker will have some limitations that some people will focus intently on, but what's it going to be like when you can stereo pair them.  And... if Apple decides to build off the HomePod and release larger versions, what that will do to the audiophile world!

 

I tend to ignore comments sections, especially this early when hardly any of them will actually have the product.

I do think there is a consensus though amongst reviewers that it sounds excellent for a one box speaker, and that gives some cause for optimism when the pairing becomes available.  But at the same time, reviewers of a more audiophile bent i think do lean towards it being just an excellent one box speaker, and nothing that transformational. If it was, even the tech (not audio) press would have gone further than to say that sound wise its better, but not that much, that the Sonos offering. 

Even the YT review i posted earlier observed that there are other sound bars that achieve better separation than the HomePod. And for all the flatness of the curve, as the reviewer says, of you like to be enveloped by music, than the HomePod will disappoint. And i suspect 2 paired still wont achieve that. (for the record, i am an Apple devotee, and have heard a HomePod in an Apple Store). And re the flatness of the curve, it cant be that impressive if the reviewer thought it was very bass heavy (no surprise i guess), and that the bass seemed overly separated from the rest fo the instrumentation.

Sure it will have its place though, especially when over time Apple opens up the architecture a bit - no TuneIn or similar radio service is a major downer to me. Hopefully that'll get addressed in a year or so. And it does look plenty good enough.

Sandyb:

And i suspect 2 paired still wont achieve that.

 

You hope!???

 

Ha! And no, not at all, would love to be pleasantly surprised.

2 HomePods should sound very good i would have thought - but at 700 USD, i doubt that combo will sound any better (and probably worse) than a pair of decent stereo bookshelves with a capable amp. 

But of course, its a different product category, so comparisons only mean so much - for those who value the "smarts" of these speakers, the HomePod and its ilk definitely have their appeal, and Apple seem to have made an excellent sounding one. 

 

Sandyb:

for those who value the "smarts" of these speakers

And for people like me who only use Siri to hear her mangle Japanese names and words.  "Hey Siri what's playing?"  Actually she doesn''t do too bad, but to hear her say "Kyary Pamyu Pamyu"...

 

jimcaj:

Sandyb:

a proper test from an audio sensitive guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzbTRMIFL-4

Thanks. Very interesting clip. Warms my old hi-fi heart.

Thanks for the link ... I listen to the video ... it is interesting from a perspective of methodology and criteria.

I thought his economic argument was specious ... complaint about “Apple tax” but not including his labour, expertise, training to achieve expertise, nor any value add tax if he had charged himself for the labour & expertise in assembling his speakers ... and did he include cable costs, echo costs, and power operating costs !

Apologies for sounding grumpy but really ! Stick to the central point ... the HomePod is suitable for modern music and modern popular tastes.

Lesson for me is to test some Jazz and Classical pieces.

Sandyb:

Even the YT review i posted earlier observed that there are other sound bars that achieve better separation than the HomePod.

I think the physical length of most sound bars would play a part to say nothing of their multiple separated speakers

I have read online that the Homepod will be very expensive to repair as it is glued and welded together. For e.g. if the power cable needs replacing it costs $279 to have it fixed. Apparently the salesperson is supposed to inform customers about the repair costs when they buy the Homepod.

 

 

I just wonder how exactly people imagine they could get a stereo separation from a single HomePod and its speaker placement? Amazing how Apple is scrutinized to insanity for "not delivering" the impossible. :)

BenSA:

I have read online that the Homepod will be very expensive to repair as it is glued and welded together. For e.g. if the power cable needs replacing it costs $279 to have it fixed. Apparently the salesperson is supposed to inform customers about the repair costs when they buy the Homepod.

 

 

$279 to replace the power cord? To remove it is a straight pull: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjxILSOfJmQ

Roger

The speaker placements within the HomePod remind of the BL90, the automatic room adaption looks like the one found on the BL5 - and it sounds as good as the BL2? Hm. Now I'm keen on testing this unit out myself. 

Roger

As a matter of fact, power cord can be replaced for 29USD but I guess - as with many things around Apple - people are constantly hungry of nonsensual proofs how evil Apple is.

https://9to5mac.com/2018/02/10/apple-homepod-detached-damanged-cable-repair-pricing/

Roger:

$279 to replace the power cord? To remove it is a straight pull: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjxILSOfJmQ

I've read that $279 is the standard out-of-warranty repair cost. If the powercord gets damaged the cost is $39 to replace it, upon assessment on how it got damaged.  I guess if Apple believes the way it got damaged doesn't fall within its criteria to be a $39 repair, that will open up a market for 3rd party power cables that can easily be replaced by the user. Check eBay!!!

 

 

Mark-N:

Roger:

$279 to replace the power cord? To remove it is a straight pull: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjxILSOfJmQ

I've read that $279 is the standard out-of-warranty repair cost. If the powercord gets damaged the cost is $39 to replace it, upon assessment on how it got damaged.  I guess if Apple believes the way it got damaged doesn't fall within its criteria to be a $39 repair, that will open up a market for 3rd party power cables that can easily be replaced by the user. Check eBay!!!

 

Seems like its difficult to open https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/12/apple-homepod-teardown/

 

For those of an audiophile bent, it would appear the HomePod is a technical tour de force and has superb measurements...

On top of being fully active with 8 speakers and 8 amplifiers, the 'treble' speakers are actually BMR radiators - state of the art stuff really.

An very interesting review here:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/

Cheers

John. 

Different opinions also exist ...

 

https://www.consumerreports.org/smart-speakers/apple-homepod-early-test-results/

 

 

I won't buy it but, if I did, HomePod is small and light enough that the chance of it being tossed about would warrant buying their special warranty. I would call it disposable. My MX4200 running Roku into BL3000s is good enough for me and my ears. 

I doubt Apple care about B&O, B&W, Meridian, or even Sonos and Bose, one bit, unless they need to grow. If HomePod is about them entering the premium lifestyle audio business we all know Apple could empty the shelves of all competition in the Apple Stores and distribution channel within months. That would shift the Chinese audio business for sure ;-)

Samsung have Harmon; Maybe Apple want to play with the company they love to hate? Let's see if they create additional products and then we will know. 

Doubt I'll ever buy one, nor a Sonos or anything else like that, though I admit I use my Beolit 15 more than I thought I would. I don't doubt the HomePod will turn out to be a good quality, good sounding product, and woe be unto any manufacturer that Apple decides to hit directly in competition with, they don't play with half measures when they decide to try and dominate a market niche.

And, no surprise, this is apparently another product designed to not be repaired, but thrown into the dump when it breaks. Which is a sad commentary on the times, but I long ago learned that things, especially cars, are designed to be manufactured. Repaired? Not so much or easily, and with "inexpensive" electronics, not repaired at all. Throw away society.

But then, I don't think most Play products are all that repairable either.

Jeff:

But then, I don't think most Play products are all that repairable either.

as far as i know are there no spare parts for BeoPlay-products except for the A9

egges:

Jeff:

But then, I don't think most Play products are all that repairable either.

as far as i know are there no spare parts for BeoPlay-products except for the A9

Well...there you go. Brave new world I guess. I used to always say if I can't fix it, it ain't broke, but nowadays...

This actually brings up a really good point.  I have 3 Beolit 15’s and 3 Beoplay A1’s.  Are there no replaceable parts for any of ‘em?  Not even the batteries?  Can the speakers be re-foamed?  Egad!

Same with the A6, too?  (Got one of those as well...)

Beware putting your Homepod on wooden surfaces!!!

Apparently it leaves marks.

Saw it and listened to it in Sydney

Aussie Michael:

Saw it and listened to it in Sydney

The black is sexy compared to my white.

Puncher:

Beware putting your Homepod on wooden surfaces!!!

Apparently it leaves marks.

Ban boring signatures!

Then Apple stores will have a problem !

As shown in Michael’s photo ... all their demo tables are wooden

The

elephant:

Puncher:

 

Beware putting your Homepod on wooden surfaces!!!

 

Apparently it leaves marks.

 

Ban boring signatures!

 

 

Then Apple stores will have a problem !

 

As shown in Michael’s photo ... all their demo tables are wooden

Then they can follow their own wood re-oiling advice!

elephant:

The black is sexy compared to my white. BeoNut since '75

The white looked sort of dirty

And not in an Christina Aguilera way either lol.

https://www.dezeen.com/2018/02/16/apple-homepod-speaker-damaging-wooden-furniture/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily%20Dezeen%20Digest&utm_content=Daily%20Dezeen%20Digest+CID_25d923ac63f3c0c156465932797fcd1c&utm_source=Dezeen%20Mail&utm_term=Apples%20HomePod%20speaker%20damages%20wooden%20furniture

 

Ittt I’ll your furniture