ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
vikinger:Well my tastes haven't changed! With a proper system you can enjoy the sweet spot or listen to reflected sound all around the house. The current trend is rather as if transistor radios in every room had been marketed as superior to Hi Fi in the 1960's. Graham
@ Duels,
It's probably a generational thing. Some remember moving up from transistor portables to true Hi Fi.
Later generations are moving from ear buds to something very similar to the portable transistor radio, albeit with better streaming sources.
B&O have to follow the trend. Some of us choose not to.
Graham
vikinger:@ Duels, It's probably a generational thing. Some remember moving up from transistor portables to true Hi Fi. Later generations are moving from ear buds to something very similar to the portable transistor radio, albeit with better streaming sources. B&O have to follow the trend. Some of us choose not to. Graham
vikinger: @ Duels, It's probably a generational thing. Some remember moving up from transistor portables to true Hi Fi. Later generations are moving from ear buds to something very similar to the portable transistor radio, albeit with better streaming sources. B&O have to follow the trend. Some of us choose not to. Graham
I believe I agree with everyone. As a child we had a small home stereo and I had my own transistor radio. In my 20s I had walkman and boom box as well as my own component system. Marriages pushed me into lifestyle products and media players with headsets, and now phones with bluetooth and streaming services. Most of that today is the same as it ever was.
Branding really started in the USA in the late 50's with television pushing annual changes in automobiles. In the mid 60s, American cars quit changing every year and companies started sharing components and divisions shared platforms, to the point where each company was selling several versions of nearly the same car to different customers and competing against themselves. Just one example, but maybe the biggest one. Of course, Sony, B&O, Marantz, McIntosh, etc, were VERY different from each other back then.
What has changed? Only the media and the medium have really changed. Third world manufacturing and third party distribution has allowed companies and people to look at €300 and up as throwaway price. Isolating oneself from other people in public via headsets is even more popular in urban setting. Branding has not changed, and brand equity is no longer something that is technically explainable. Audio and video products are almost identical in looks and performance. And one particular company owns nearly all the entertainment brands for automotive.
For me, that is why BeoPlay grows (to its limit) and B&O is on its last legs, sadly. Tarting up a TV is a probably €1000 proposition, at most, and everyone except B&O figured that out a long time ago (Give Loewe credit; their sinister stock manipulations and eventual buyout got them a credible ownership group). BeoPlay products will one day do all that Sonos does and might even interact correctly with Google. Then there will be no reason for it, either.
@poodleboy, sadly I think you're right. The home electronics market has changed markedly, and I doubt it ever will be what it was. The days of "real" stereos, or even full home theater setups, seems to be fading quickly. In many ways we are going backwards to the days of large, single radios/consoles instead of component stereos, only the modern replacements are smaller and smaller (aka homepods rather than big wooden console radios). B&O as a brand hasn't handled this well with the exception of Play, and Play has suffered from poor quality and a slapdash throw anything and everything against the wall to see what sticks product development approach. Whether Play survives depends on how long B&O can get away with this approach or if they finally get an integrated product portfolio approach together.
The traditional forte of B&O, beautifully designed, stunning, and well integrated home setups like the Beocenter 9500 and BS9000 have little relevance to the modern world. For some reason though companies like McIntosh and Marantz seem to be able to field full lineups of traditional components. Same for Yamaha, Denon, but many of the old names are either gone or have product lines a traditionalist would not recognize.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
I have heard you complain about the A6 before..
Muffled sound flaky behaviour etc...
I find the A6 anything but flaky and anything but midrange...
The bass alone is phenomenal.
Sure the A9 can go much louder but I like the newer enforced domes on the A6..
How they managed to fit a speaker of this calibre in such a thin enclosure amazes me.
I don't think that HomePod will kill BeoPlay, because both of them are for different music playing. As for me I love to play Apple Music on HomePod, but other music I prefer BeoPlay.
Jeff: For some reason though companies like McIntosh and Marantz seem to be able to field full lineups of traditional components.
I think this is a side-effect of being a "lifestyle" brand. When the "lifestyle" moves on, then so must the products.
I haven't looked lately, but aren't most of these brands now owned by large conglomerates so, at some point, they will just "turn off the lights" on a brand when it is no longer viable because of their shrinking pool of customers. B&O doesn't have this luxury.
Stan: Jeff: For some reason though companies like McIntosh and Marantz seem to be able to field full lineups of traditional components. I think this is a side-effect of being a "lifestyle" brand. When the "lifestyle" moves on, then so must the products. I haven't looked lately, but aren't most of these brands now owned by large conglomerates so, at some point, they will just "turn off the lights" on a brand when it is no longer viable because of their shrinking pool of customers. B&O doesn't have this luxury.
You may be right, but what exactly is a "lifestyle" brand? What differentiates the B&O of old from other stereo companies, say? Both produced components and speakers, the main difference is B&O products were better integrated when used as a system and were far better looking. Meaning if you were design conscious you didn't need to hide them in cabinets. That's one of the main things that first attracted me to the brand, and upon further investigation I found their performance to be good to excellent depending on the product, certainly not the claim of Bang And Awfulsound so many elitist audio dealers tried to foist upon them.
Many of the old firms are indeed owned by megacorps of course, or are megacorps themselves (e.g. Yamaha). It's sadly unusual for a large corporation to not interfere with the company after they buy it, one counter example is McIntosh, first bought by Clarion, have no idea who owns them now, but they have been allowed to continue to be McIntosh and not cheapened or diluted. Other brands have not been so lucky. Perhaps it would have been better if when the troubles hit B&O had been bought by a company who was willing to let them continue to be B&O, but the chances of that were small, and we're seeing even B&O is not letting B&O be themselves.
I know Bose is often called a "lifestyle" brand as well, the term still puzzles me as to its exact definition.
Jeff: @poodleboy, sadly I think you're right. The home electronics market has changed markedly, and I doubt it ever will be what it was. The days of "real" stereos, or even full home theater setups, seems to be fading quickly. In many ways we are going backwards to the days of large, single radios/consoles instead of component stereos, only the modern replacements are smaller and smaller (aka homepods rather than big wooden console radios). B&O as a brand hasn't handled this well with the exception of Play, and Play has suffered from poor quality and a slapdash throw anything and everything against the wall to see what sticks product development approach. Whether Play survives depends on how long B&O can get away with this approach or if they finally get an integrated product portfolio approach together. The traditional forte of B&O, beautifully designed, stunning, and well integrated home setups like the Beocenter 9500 and BS9000 have little relevance to the modern world. For some reason though companies like McIntosh and Marantz seem to be able to field full lineups of traditional components. Same for Yamaha, Denon, but many of the old names are either gone or have product lines a traditionalist would not recognize.
Thanks for your detailed statement.
But I have to say for me it's not an either-or solution.
I have a strictly analogue stereo system including an excellent dac for streaming hi res. With a "sweet spot" I enjoy listening when I'm alone. And I love it.
But having guests I love the option to go for "party mode" ...
No sweet spot anymore, but the whole and large room filled with music, wherever a person is standing. Quite nice. Including my BS2 and Beoplay A6 via Chromecast, playing simultaneously with my analogue stereo system.
Much better than my superior analogue system playing alone, for guests.
And I still like B&O aesthetics, don't want to hide some huge and ugly cube formed stuff in my lounge or living room.
Just have a question for the moderating team:
Why does my post need to be approved by you?
Happened several times delayed like this until I got an answer:
Thanks,
Ulrike
Ulrike, personally I don't find the "new" B&O to be nearly as attractive styling wise as the Jensen/Lewis stuff. To each their own though, it's personal taste. And at least the speakers aren't the traditional monkey coffins.
I have two rooms Masterlinked, my main system is setup for proper listening in the living room, using BL9s, in the next room with a large open space between them is the kitchen/dining room/sun room area, which has BL8000s. That covers any entertaining I do. For the rest of the house I had planned on Masterlinking it, I have enough stuff to do that to 4 more rooms, but haven't found it a high priority. I have a Beolit 15 which I find very useful to carry to whatever room I'm doing something in for music separate from the main system. We often have family dinner parties downstairs in an apartment we have there due to the fact my mother-in-law is confined to a wheelchair now, and the BL15 works very well for music there. I just select Spotify on my iPhone, sit it in the tray on top and carry it downstairs. It's funny, before buying the BL15 I would have thought I was going to masterlink the whole house, turns out I don't feel the need. Should try and ebay my spare gear I guess.
Jeff, your collection is quite impressive.
Me, I have been looking for B&O just during the last two years and so I have to stay out, not knowing about the good old times.
It seems a lot of things have changed, since. Sadly. At the moment I will restrain from buying something more because of the many software issues. Sadly.
Ulrike, my main system for audio is a BS9000 driving BL9s, with a Beogram 3000/MMC2 turntable. I did use a Playmaker but it has lately been acting up so I replaced it with an Auralic Mini. BL8000s in another room. That's what I'm using, in storage I have a ton of gear, BL6000s, Beovox 3000, P30, Beocords, BL2000s, etc. I have a ton of old stuff, and sadly I think any of it is superior to what B&O is producing now, they just work. Software has sadly never been a strong suit of B&O and with everything s/w based today...well, not good. I also have a pair of Form 2 headphones and my wife has a pair of Play H6, and I have an A3 with an older iPad I use for video and audio in the kitchen area.
So, I've got a major investment in B&O gear, but like you am not buying new gear. The day my BS9000 finally dies and is unrepairable will be a sad, sad day for me. I've only had to have it repaired once in 20 years of ownership, laser replacement and glass reattached, and I hope it lasts another 20.
Jeff:I just select Spotify on my iPhone, sit it in the tray on top and carry it downstairs. It's funny, before buying the BL15 I would have thought I was going to masterlink the whole house, turns out I don't feel the need. Should try and ebay my spare gear I guess.Jeff
BeoNut since '75
Bump. 2019 here. What do you guys think about homepod after a year and a half? Right now I was thinking of buying m5/m3 for my multiroom but then I realised that I actually use an airlpay 2 fuction in the apple music app. Then I googled it and understood that I can connect non B&O products to this multiroom - products like devialet phantom, B&W, homepod etc. Just wanna hear your thoughts after some period of time
Frankly the sound is very poor in my opinion. I don't think the product is doing well (in Apple terms of course). The M3 is a better performer and the M5 is actually an excellent sound if you're not close to it. I have one on top of a cabinet and it "fills the room" beautifully. I agree if you're too close to it the bass feels too strong.
wow! beoplay m3 is a better performer than homepod? I'm actually not sure if the m3 is doing well in sales.
Bazzinga:Then I googled it and understood that I can connect non B&O products to this multiroom - products like devialet phantom, B&W, homepod etc.
Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2 Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset
i need a speaker in my bedroom and bathroom. Did you check the homepod? I see that you have m3 and m5. How does these compare to homepod? Also is there a big difference in sound between m3 and m5? Is there any sense in buying m5 in a small bathroom where it will stand near the wall? Won't it be overkill? Thanks Hiort!
If you want the B&O functionallity in that bathroom, go for the M3 (unless you have a huge bathroom).
If you just want AP2 support, try any other AP2 compatiple speaker - try them all ;-)) and choose the one that suits you best.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Bazzinga: i need a speaker in my bedroom and bathroom. Did you check the homepod? I see that you have m3 and m5. How does these compare to homepod? Also is there a big difference in sound between m3 and m5? Is there any sense in buying m5 in a small bathroom where it will stand near the wall? Won't it be overkill? Thanks Hiort!
I had only a brief listen to Homepod, so I cannot give any real impressions.
For a small bathroom M3 will be great. That is where I have my M3 and its absolutely sufficient. As you say, M5 will be overkill.
Great! As I know m3 has a directional, not 360 sound. If it won't target my sink in the bathroom and a shower will it still sound full and great?
BeoMatthew: Frankly the sound is very poor in my opinion. I don't think the product is doing well (in Apple terms of course). The M3 is a better performer and the M5 is actually an excellent sound if you're not close to it. I have one on top of a cabinet and it "fills the room" beautifully. I agree if you're too close to it the bass feels too strong.
I don't agree at all. I think the HomePod has a rich sound. Maybe a bit too much bass but it's really good and quite roomfilling.
I replaced my BS2 (I lost most of my faith in B&O) with a HomePod and I don't regret. I admit that the HomePod is not as good but not far either. And no software or wifi problems!
Look the reviews : https://www.whathifi.com/apple/homepod/review
https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/6/16976906/apple-homepod-review-smart-speaker
For M3 : https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/24/16927922/bo-play-beoplay-m3-wireless-speaker-airplay-cast-review
benoit:I replaced my BS2 (I lost most of my faith in B&O) with a HomePod and I don't regret. I admit that the HomePod is not as good but not far either. And no software or wifi problems!
More generally, HomePod is not a generic AirPlay speaker, and nobody should buy it expecting such. First off, out of the box it's a brick. You *must* activate it by creating an AppleID, and *verifying* yourself with your phone # for 2-factor authentication, because the default mode of operation uses Siri and accesses your Home, with all the privacy restrictions that Apple (rightfully) built in. There's no way to configure it for everybody-play anonymous operation, or even generic non-Siri operation on your own WiFi network, without immersing yourself in Apple credentialling.
Beyond setup, the basic flaw in "Everybody Play" mode is that Bluetooth is used to establish the WiFi link. So you must have your player within BT range, not just 802.11 range as you would in old-fashioned AirPlay. (Presumably to make it more transparent and not require a network/speaker "Chooser" app? And require proximity so the whole neighborhood can't blast your speaker.) But once the link is established, it doesn't stay up "forever". Example: run iTunes on a Mac, near enough to drive the BT, and (minor software glitch) you have to choose the HomePod as the System sound output, you cannot just choose it from within iTunes. But having done so, it shows up in iTunes and works fine including control driven by the HomePod. But if you pause iTunes by tapping the top of the speaker, go away for some minutes, then tap again to un-pause, it does... nothing. The HomePod has been disconnected from the Mac in the interim! So you must go back over to the Mac, choose the speaker in System Preferences/Sound again, and start playing again. This might be OK for a multi-person "party jukebox" but is not very good as an always-on background music player.
I'll try updating the HomePod software (3 GigaBytes!) when I can take it back to the house where it was originally configured and where a registered, verified, Apple-head loaned me their iPhone to do it. After that, I'll test the everybody-play mode again, though I'm not hopeful given the basic flaw. Then I'll take it back over and switch it to single-network mode, to check long-term connection without BT and AirPlay (1) backward compatibility at my house again. More later...
EDIT (later): Updating the software caused the Homepod not to work *at all* in "Everybody Play" mode! One user (MacOS 10.12.6) it asked for an AirPlay code, though no code was set, and another user (OS 10.14.5) it didn't even show up in System Preferences/Sound/Output list. By contrast, a late-model AirPort Express shows up and AirPlays just fine for both users (on the same network of course). Back to my Apple-head friend to switch it into single-network mode. More later...
wow, so much problems with this thing! With which speaker(from B&O or not) would you consider to replace the homepod if you will?
Wow, sorry to hear that.. And what made you lost the faith in B&O? Just the homepod?P.S. enjoying my beosound 2 though :/
I have 2X BeoPlay A9 and 3x HomePods and honestly HomePods set up as a stereo pair easily holds it's own vs a single A9. However, the A9s with strong wifi (I use Google wifi mesh) is a flawless AirPlay 2 speaker. I am easily able to ask Siri to route audio from a HomePod to A9.
B&O in my life 😊:
Bazzinga: Great! As I know m3 has a directional, not 360 sound. If it won't target my sink in the bathroom and a shower will it still sound full and great?
I have an M3 in a small-ish bathroom (by US standards - maybe 3m x 5m-ish), and it's directional nature doesn't bother me. There are so many hard surfaces in my bathroom (tile floor, tile on some of the walls) that the sound bounces all over the room anyway. In this environment, fidelity really only matters at low volumes which can't be heard well over the running water, shower, electric razor, etc. I have mine pointed toward my sink/vanity and away from the shower. I do need to turn it up quite loud to hear it in the shower so I don't do this when I get up before the family. Then again, the shower is quite loud so I think I'd have this problem even if it was pointed directly at the shower.
I did briefly consider an M5 (onmi-directional and spotify connect), but it really would have been overkill, and I can use googlecast for spotify and that works fine so far.
Bazzinga: Wow, sorry to hear that.. And what made you lost the faith in B&O? Just the homepod?P.S. enjoying my beosound 2 though :/
I lost faith in B&O after many problems with my dealer (he closed since)... He wasn't at all helpfull, neither polite, when I had to fix a CD player or the sliding doors or the BS3 touch panel... The Beolit 17 had battery problems, same with A2... After so many problems with B&O I did a trial with the HomePod. It is very good sounding in my 30 sqm living room. For a big bathroom (French standarts; 12sqm) I find it a bit overkill. I still like very much B&O's design and sound but I cannot imagine spending so much anymore if the devices are not reliable and have no perfect aftersales service. The BS2 started sometimes with a very very high volume and was loosing network (I had to unplug it all the time) while the HomePod connected to the same router is always working fluently (I didn't know the everybody's mode so I din't experience it and I cannot tell anything).
Jaffrey2230 seems to agree with me about the sound quality of the HomePods
Bazzinga: wow, so much problems with this thing! With which speaker(from B&O or not) would you consider to replace the homepod if you will?
I will in the next months have a look to the B&W Formation Wedge which seems to be a good choice. I have to listen to it.
https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/bandw-formation-wedge
wow! I actually feel a bit humiliated because I have a9 mk2 It really sounds near to the a9? I just can't imagine it .. Or the a9 is better on 50%+ volume ?
A9 gets far far much louder.
oh... feel sorry for you :C As for now, didn't have any problems with beosound 2 and a9 and I hope it won't show up... But I feel you! B&O products are really expensive so there are higher demands for them.
looks like the size of my bathroom. Thanks, I'll consider m3 then
Yeah, I saw it but I am not sure about the design of the formation line... And like a B&O fan it is really hard to buy something different than B&O. Also I love B&O design much much more than BW
I can understand you. As long as you are satisfied with B&O stay with the brand.
Btw, another thing that worried me a bit that there are(what hi-fi) only few reviews on the B&O products and not the great ones. What do you think is the reason for this? After their few reviews and not great ratings they create an impression that B&O is a product like vertu - which only costs a lot, with a great materials but sounds average and is overpriced. They don't consider B&O as a high-end or simply B&O annoys them?
B&O is less and less visible (shops closing, remaining dealers far, no corners in shops, few pages in magazines, ...). Many people around me even don't know the brand. And some others forgot it. I think that B&O is very good in sound quality, excellent for the design (like it or not but different), perfect for the rate design / sound quality, very good for in brand integration. But to be honest you can find for the same price (or less) real audiophile products (but ugly design probably). I still see B&O as a life philosophy (good sound, good materials, nice designs, ...). But with the nowadays prices reaching the top I don't think that they are the best in audio quality in their prices range. You can find some very good reviews for some B&O products but most of them finish pointing the unreal price tag... Many brands like B&W or Naim for ex are trying to combine design and sound quality. And they manage very well. When I first bought B&O 30 years ago it was 2 times the price of a good equivalent but now it is 3 to 10 times...