BeoTalk podcast

Razlaw:

Did I hear correctly today on the podcast, this will be the fourth time you have had a 50 replaced?

Yes, that is correct. I should have an update on that tomorrow as tomorrow evening we’ll be doing a deep dive once again. So watch this space

Hi Mikipidia,

Is your problem a "widespread" problem or just a problem that only You have with the Beolab 50?

Best Regards
Martin

Mikipidia:

Yes, that is correct. I should have an update on that tomorrow as tomorrow evening we’ll be doing a deep dive once again. So watch this space New: Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beovision eclipse, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound 1 Bronze edition, Beoplay M3.

Mikipedi4 on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/c/mikipedi4

Old: Beolab 1's, beolab 2, beovision 10-46, overture 2300, beolab 8000's, beolab 4000's, beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

I will be watching.....and still deciding on 50s for myself....

@Martin

It seems to be my issue, but I can’t really say as to how accurate it is as it’s not something they exactly advertise if you know b&o and you have an issue it’s usually “your fault” first. Anyway my dealer is really patient with me and this issue.

@all

So today was very weird. Last friday and saturday i have been testing the 50’s with a core and the eclipse and nothing had changed and they still ticked with both the core and the eclipse alike. I had reset everything several times(you kinda have to every time you change cables and or sockets). I have watched/turned on and off both the core and eclipse way more than I would ever use to during that same time period to see if something would change but this wasn’t the case. So as they were attached to the core i shut it down and left it to be until my dealer came today. At first when we turned everything on the master (tweeter)came up as if it was newly connected to a source. So we reset the whole thing again and everything then worked as it should and what do you think? No bloody ticking with the core for as long as we kept listening for it. Then I switched it from the core to the eclipse and again reset the whole thing(both speakers) and again no ticking for atleast 20 mins we sat next to the slave speaker(“normally” it would’ve been about 4 tiks or so per minute) so it is rather puzzeling. I think i heard one, maybe two ticks, but both times both of us were to far away to be absolutely sure about it. And when that happened we stayed a little while again listening to the slave to see if it would happen again, but nothing.. So we changed out the master for a different one just to be sure. That has now been connected to the tv again and has worked flawlessly for the past 4-5 hours. The only thing that is different now compared to any other day is the humidity but i doubt that has anything to do with it as i’ve had the windows open all day and night and it’s dryer at night than during the day(it’s fairly cool inside now )

So I’ll test if for a few days and see if anything changes and my dealer will do the same with my master speaker at the shop. So as for a conclusion, I have no idea what to say other than it seems to work fine now and b&o has some self healing properties apparently lol

I’ll update my findings or possibly non findings in a few days again and we’ll go from there. Maybe one thing, but this a very big maybe is that something is touching one of the chassis(either master speaker or in the eclipse, but mostlikely the eclipse as it’s not grounded) and when it gets dryer indoors that it affects it through the metal becoming static and hops on to the pl plugs. So let’s hope we get some changeable weather in the next few days. Over the weekend it’s supposed to be 29c which iam not a fan of

I’ll be talking about it on here and on the podcast obviously, and thank you all for watching it! We very much like that you come and watch us and share in our shared beojourney

Glad to hear all is working. I had a similar occurrence. I had a rattle when playing low frequencies on my M5. Took it with when I demoed the 50s. It worked fine there and has worked fine since.

Fingers crossed they continue working well; I must admit my breath was bated hoping that the fault would not appear on mine. Actually, they have out performed my expectations enormously. 

Many thanks for the excellent work on the podcast which I watched for the first time at the weekend 👍🏻

Hi Miki,

as an idea for the next video, you could chime in on the discussion in this thread:

https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/37253/281920.aspx

If John is online, he could tell about how they have connected the Shape parts in their new cinema room in the shop.

I am sure, that Christian - if watching online - can add something too. They have the Shape set up in the cinema room of the BeoHome in Struer, I know.

Personally I find it very interesting to use the Shape (speakers and amp/s and dampers) as one/or more seperate speaker/s in a setup.

MM

Hi Guys,

 

Today/tonight we’ll be live again! The link is down below.

 

Don’t forget we that we’d still love to see what gear you’re rocking so you can leave pictures on here or send them to me via email at mikipedi4@gmail.com. The same goes for any topics you’d like us to discuss or questions you may have, anything goes basically as long as it's legal Stick out tongue

 

We’ll go live (Sunday) at 8pm/7pm/1pm CST - Amsterdam/UK time/USA time.

 

 

We hope you can come join us live again on YouTube (link down below) tomorrow/today and otherwise I hope to see you guys in the comments!

 

 

Michael

Also,

 

Steve from soundsheavenly.com will be on for about an hour to discuss his upcoming beolab 5 vs 50 vs 90 video for ideas and or how to test. So if you have anything you'd like to ad, please comment in his thread or come and join us live!

 

Michael

The subject of Tidal playing on Apple TV came up in the latest podcast.

This was the answer I received from Tidal last week:

Ashely (TIDAL) May 29, 9:29 AM EDT Hello,

Thank you for reaching back out. In looking into this issue further, Apple TV is not able to stream MQA content at this time.

The better option, since you are subscribed to the HiFi subscription, would be to connect and stream through your iPhone or the Desktop application. The iOS version of MQA is basically the same as the Desktop, in order to take full advantage of the MQA content, a DAC is needed (unless the device has one integrated), otherwise the Application can only unfold MQA content 1x at 24bit / 88.2khz.

The Masters' symbol will only be lit if the sample rate is equal to that of Master Quality. However, the phone's hardware will determine what level of streaming will be available via the Tidal app.

For instance, if the device doesn't support 16 bit / 44.1 kHz, then the user will not have access to MQA or HiFi, they'll need to connect a DAC to the device for full functionality.

The application will determine if the internal DAC (if present) is capable of playing MQA content as well. Hopefully, I have answered any questions that you had, if not, please let me know.

Enjoy your day!

Best Regards, Ashely Technical Support Specialist

 

 

Thanks Max, That's good to know! I personally don't use it but a lot of other people do and this is useful info. Hope they'll make it work soon on the apple tv though, that would be nice

Thank you for watching!

Yes, the Apple TV Tidal app supports HiFi, but not MQA.

iOS was updated to be able to decode MQA, but only on connected headphones.

If you select an MQA Master on your iOS device, it will be downgraded when Airplay streamed to an Apple TV.

The answer Tidal sent you is not specific enough to cover this use case.

 

Sandyb:

iOS was updated to be able to decode MQA, but only on connected headphones.

Exacttly that is the point:

You will need a camera kit and an external MQA-enabled DAC for this.....and headphones/additional audio cables.

I guess it defeats the purpose of a mobile device to have to run around with such a combo.

OK - the diehard MQA believers might use it to show off their ‘highend-affection’

Even in a home setup this sort of combo seems a bit strange to me.

Please note: When Tidal advertises the MQA support they just show you an iDevice with a Master symbol in the app.

MM

Michael, many thanks for the efforts from all involved - much appreciated :-)

 

MM, Tidal seem a little reticent in confirming in easy to understand language what will play the Master recordings they promote.

In my first email to them asking if they played in Apple TV they replied:

 "Hi, Thank you for contacting TIDAL Support!

TIDAL's HiFi uses file formats FLAC and ALAC, the resolution for these files would be 16 bit / 44.1 khz, with MQA having a higher resolution.

You will need to verify with Apple that their TV can play this level of content. Let me know if you have any other questions - I'm always happy to help."

 

It was only when I said it was ridiculous that their app developers could not confirm or deny it that I received the second answer.

Max

https://darko.audio/2019/03/the-inconvenient-truth-about-mqa-on-ios/

This should help as an explainer, with respect to iOS and MQA.

There are 2 stages to fully unwrapping / decoding an MQA Master - no Apple product does the both.

The desktop Max app always has done the first unwrap, and now the iOS apps do the same. 

I've listened to a few Masters on my MacBook Pro, with wired headphones - they can sound really very nice, but that won't apply to all Masters albums.

The Master of Marvin Gaye's What's Going On sounds lovely, and better than the Hifi version - even with just the first part of the process. I dont have any external hardware to do the second decode. But there are plenty of hardware now that will do it for you.

The Tidal app on the Apple TV by itself sounds pretty good to be honest.

I guess the same need for external hardware exists with QoBuzz hi-res.

 

 

Firt: there is no way whatsoever that a recording like Marvin Gaye’s What’s going On could be categorized as a highres recording (even if it is a well recorded song).

It might be that the MQA magic and the DAC used makes it sound ‘lovely’ and different than the Hifi version - but ‘better’ is another thing..

If you really (!) want to dig deeper into MQA spend some time with Archimago’s thoughts and measurements:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/search?q=Mqa

MM

Try them both and then comment by any means

It certainly sounds better, and of course different

But it's not a night and day step up.

For most looking for massive step up from 320 or CD quality streaming, then yes, you'll be setting yourself up for disappointment.

256 streams are absolutely fine for the vast majority - that doesn't mean that improvement isn't possible.

I personally don't steam all that much for intent listening, only for background music. I would personally always suggest to get the media you really like either on a harddrive or in physical form in the format of your liking. But that's just me i guess, then again I've experienced a few internet outages over the last year and was so glad I had everything locally. The outages were always something stupid like new construction going up and that they rip/break a main wire on Friday afternoon and then the crew goes home and locks up and the ISP people can't get in physically until Monday to fix it.

Hi Guys,

 

Today/tonight we’ll be live again! The link is down below. We'll be doing a deep dive on the new Beovision Harmony with John from B&O of Manchester as he's the first one to have it in the flesh! So If you have any questions let us know(we may also have another special guest, fingers crossed)!

Don’t forget we that we’d still love to see what gear you’re rocking so you can leave pictures on here or send them to me via email at mikipedi4@gmail.com. The same goes for any topics you’d like us to discuss or questions you may have, anything goes basically as long as it's legal

We’ll go live (Sunday) at 8pm/7pm/1pm CST - Amsterdam/UK time/USA time.

We hope you can come join us live again on YouTube (link down below) tomorrow/today and otherwise I hope to see you guys in the comments!

Michael

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a6oyGNHehY

We need some skiniplay covers.....asap!

MM

Better?

 

Yes, but for the fabric covers you could need something more exciting.........it’s a bit dull with that big square in the room - imho.

What’s that there?

 

Hi Guys i had some question for the next show. i actually wanted to ask them yesteday but had to dash off the podcast.

Q1. What is the quality of the belolab 50's DAC like (digital to analogue converter). I have an oppo 205 with an ESS DAC and pretty sure the DAC ES9038PRO SABRE DAC that is 32 bit capable is better than the one in the 50s but would like confirmation.

Q2. If i want to connect a turntable or anything analogue to the Beolab 50s to avoid the speaker doing any conversion of the sound ( dont want any conversion of the audio) can i just use the beolab 50s phono inputs? If i connect to SPDIF/Optiocal the speaker i assume will convert the data with its internal DAC/

Q3. I noticed the Beovision Eclipse has an optical in whch seems to be in a 3mm jack format. Is this usable by owners or disabled.

Q4. Has anyone ever had their Eclipse calibrated fot optimum sound by going into the extra sound settings? Theres allot of settings to play around with to have audio that is closer to industry standards than B&O have setup. I had the picture proffessionally calibrated to ISF standards and Broadcast standards and my calibrator indicated my speakers were too boomy and not set to any audio reference standards. He offered to calibrate my speakers  (above the usual room compensation) but i may do that myself and save the money.

Epsilon20

https://support.bang-olufsen.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003036594-BeoLab-50-Technical-Sound-Guide

(Edited) Thanks Beovox,  I re-read that manual which I keep on hand. I had to eat my initial response which stated I couldn’t find the information in the manual.

Analogue inputs which also include the power link connector uses a Texas Instruments PCM4220 Analogue to Digital converter. Does this imply that all analogue sources are converted to a digital signal? If that’s the case it brings into question my idea of connecting a turntable to the phono inputs as was trying to have analogue audio.

For digital sources (SPDIF, Optical, USB input, DPL) the DAC in the Beolab 50's is a Texas Instruments / Burr-Brown PCM1798. I need to now research whether this DAC is better than my oppos ESS DAC. After further research the Burr-Brown 1798 DAC seemed to be a 15 year old DAC so that answers my question. http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1798.pdf

I'm sure B&O did some balancing act to get the best out of it but i would have though the Beolab 50s being a premium speaker would have a much better/Newer DAC for the cost of the speakers. My oppo 205 has two ESS 9038 Pro Sabre chips (for 2018 anyway) and it cost me a fraction of the 50s.  Based on this ill be trying to bypas the 50s processing as much as possibe unless im missing something.

Details of the DAC are below.

 

• Audio Channels 18

• Sampling rate 192 kHz (fixed)

• Word length 24 bits

• Frequency Response 0 Hz to 40 kHz (+ 0 dB, -1 dB)

• Frequency Range 0 Hz to 75 kHz (+ 0 dB, -3 dB)

• THD+N 0.004% (997 Hz, -1 dB FS, 22 Hz – 20 kHz)

• Dynamic Range 122 dB (A) (997 Hz, -60 dB FS, 20Hz – 20kHz, AES17)

• Channel Separation 110 dB (20Hz – 20kHz, AES17)

• Level Linearity 1 dB (at -120 dB FS)
  

I've already calibrated my speakers using the guide too but the manual and B&O videos online state that is more a less a basic calibration so there is more fine tuning that can be done with the parametric equaliser. For the other questions Q3 & Q4  relating to the Eclipse I’m interested in hearing people’s thoughts or feedback.

@millemissen

That's a little model of the harmony

 

@epsilon20

 

I am not sure that's a bad thing. I am sure part of the reason the oppo uses a more elaborate dac is that it has to do more than 2 channels. The dac in the master 50 only has to do itself and the slave speaker and probably far more important is that it's a really clean conversion and it's probably really well matched to the other parts like dsp amps etc. But maybe just test and see which way you like the setup more and let us know. I know I am very interested in what you'll experience switching stuff around

Mikipidia:

@millemissen

That's a little model of the harmony

I thought no smaller versions were available 😂

 

By the way - who the h*ll is that:

http://www.woo-ver.com/Covers/

 

MM

The entire album, Famous Blue Raincoat is brilliant.

Try Song of Bernadette on the same album

Oops. Wrong forum :-(

Lol, no problem. We could also start a list of (refference) music if we like?

Millemissen:

I thought no smaller versions were available 😂

By the way - who the h*ll is that:

http://www.woo-ver.com/Covers/

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

I have no idea, looks cool, but no idea. It’s weird to me to mess with design from those speakers though as they’re fairly/extremely good as they are. Just adding wood isn’t always the answer, or atleast so iam told

That's a good idea.

Actually, on the Beolab 50 whitepaper (page 12) it gives a map of the phantom image locations of images and voices in Bird on a Wire from the same album.

Very useful for checking out my system and - as I said - a great album :-)

For John o’Manchester.

If I remember well, you ‘promised’ a video of the session with the BS Harmony in the shop.

When can we expect that?

MM

John’s working on it, as soon as he finishes it it’ll go live basically.

Hi everyone,

 

Big announcement, we managed to have get confirmation that a special BeoLady will join us on the podcast for a bit this Sunday

Someone from Manchester perhaps?

Exactly!

Hi everyone,

Both John and Jenny will join us for the podcast tonight! If you have any questions for them or us feel free to leave them here or come join us live on YouTube. We'll go live at 8pm/7pm/1pm Ams/UK/CST USA time.

Also if you like to show of your rig and or have other photo's for the show, you can email me at mikipedi4@gmail.com. We're really interested in how you use you gear and in which situation and what your preferences are.

We hope you can all make it live and if not we hope you have a wonderful Sunday(link down below).

 

Michael

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvKYHh_Ftyc