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Hi, Hoping to get some ideas on how to fix this S75. Neither the mid nor the tweeter work when I plug the speaker in. I've tested both drivers and the work.
I've taken a look at the crossover and nothing seems amiss. All the soldering looks solid.
Help, any ideas on how to fix. Thanks.
Reading this post really depresses me as I own two pair of S-75 speakers and a pair of S-45’s. The latter I had to replace a woofer in one and a tweeter in the other.
Like many on this forum I own several pairs of speakers, in my case six, and I sincerely appreciate….. OK love vintage electronics, but from reading this thread it is clear that time is not exactly on their side.
I am having age related issues with my Beomaster 4400, BeoCenter 9000, and Beomaster 4500. I also have a completely original Beomaster 2400 which has defied time and performs beautifully, including all light bulbs still functioning.
All electronic components are not created equal, so the question that begs asking are specific B&O products more susceptible to age than others and if so, which ones?
Adding to my confusion I have a pair of McIntosh ML-2 speakers purchased new in 1971. These speakers suffered mightily during my ill-spent youth followed by a typical mid-life crisis. The specs on these speakers rate them about 100 watts, but my McIntosh 2255 is rated at 250 watts per channel and suffice to say these speakers have been (past tense, no longer misused) been seriously over-driven.
Yet my ML-2’s perform basically as new and are completely original. The speakers all survived my foolishness as did the crossover networks, so why are these much younger B&O speakers succumbing to age where the Macs haven’t?
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
Hi, in the case your drivers tested to be working fine (am I right assume is one speaker we're talking about here?) , check them on the other crossover, what will eliminate - narrow the problem.
you'd need to test the crossover, rebuild it or replace it (I've seen few of them on eBay quiet reasonably) .
Hope this helps and all the best
bob
P.S. don't pay any notice to apocalyptic views of Jeff there - he just worry to much (I'd like to see what the electronic equipment makes of us getting old and funny ) - Chill Jeff, everything can be rectified and fixed - give those speakers LOVE and they will serve you years to come...
I've just finished my bellowed S3702's and they're so happy to oblige and produce such a lovely noises completely forgetting they're in retirement age (1972)
apart from one woofer from Martin they're virgins as they left the factory.
It'll be interesting to see nowadays products after 40y
SwingModern: Hi, Hoping to get some ideas on how to fix this S75. Neither the mid nor the tweeter work when I plug the speaker in. I've tested both drivers and the work. I've taken a look at the crossover and nothing seems amiss. All the soldering looks solid. Help, any ideas on how to fix. Thanks.
Don't worry - be Happy
Yeah Jeff that is unfair - it's like men not being equal or something....
Chin up man, they're truly amazing products (agree with you on several speakers - I also have 5 or 6 pairs and counting) simply because they still there , all electronic bits can be fixed or changed and they will repay you with the extra value of putting smile on your face, while doing it.
Alternatively you can collect them and not use them - there are lots of new modern ones on the market (but they're all electronic devices and eventually will start showing signs of age, use & abuse.
"so what I cannot spell ARMAGEDDON, it's not like it is the end of world ...."
Piaf: Reading this post really depresses me as I own two pair of S-75 speakers and a pair of S-45’s. The latter I had to replace a woofer in one and a tweeter in the other. Like many on this forum I own several pairs of speakers, in my case six, and I sincerely appreciate….. OK love vintage electronics, but from reading this thread it is clear that time is not exactly on their side. I am having age related issues with my Beomaster 4400, BeoCenter 9000, and Beomaster 4500. I also have a completely original Beomaster 2400 which has defied time and performs beautifully, including all light bulbs still functioning. All electronic components are not created equal, so the question that begs asking are specific B&O products more susceptible to age than others and if so, which ones? Adding to my confusion I have a pair of McIntosh ML-2 speakers purchased new in 1971. These speakers suffered mightily during my ill-spent youth followed by a typical mid-life crisis. The specs on these speakers rate them about 100 watts, but my McIntosh 2255 is rated at 250 watts per channel and suffice to say these speakers have been (past tense, no longer misused) been seriously over-driven. Yet my ML-2’s perform basically as new and are completely original. The speakers all survived my foolishness as did the crossover networks, so why are these much younger B&O speakers succumbing to age where the Macs haven’t? Jeff
Hi Bob,
No, I was talking about two different speakers, each had one speaker not functioning.
Piaf: The speakers all survived my foolishness as did the crossover networks, so why are these much younger B&O speakers succumbing to age where the Macs haven’t?
The speakers all survived my foolishness as did the crossover networks, so why are these much younger B&O speakers succumbing to age where the Macs haven’t?
Jeff, if you're truly interested in understanding why and not just blowing off steam, I humbly suggest you read a text on applied reliability, such as this one. I have the first edition of Tobias and Trindade and would gladly lend it to you for a few months if you'd like.
As for OP's issues, it's discussed in another thread in the North American section. I suggested to OP he should post in Vintage with questions like these, otherwise he may not get any European expertise chiming in. OP ended up double-posting.
He is going to replace the electrolytic capacitors (at a minimum).
Ya know, we all see ourselves differently than we are in actuality. To Bob I was being “unfair,” but I do wonder to whom or to what? Rich felt I was blowing off steam, but I don’t feel that fits either. You blow off steam in anger, and I wasn’t angry, displaying more concern than is warranted perhaps, but more confusion than anything else.
The problem here is I am an enthusiast, not an electrician and not a mechanic. My knowledge of either is beyond limited, so yes I was surprised to hear about crossover issues with a S75 speaker as I own four of them and thought (apparently incorrectly) that they were fairly bullet-proof.
I had a magnet slip on one of my B&O S-45 woofers destroying the speaker and on the other one the tweeter died and these speakers are not really all that old at 32.
I mentioned that my 41 year old McIntosh speakers are 100% original and perhaps here is where Bob feels I am unfair. Unfair to what? Performance is performance, a speaker is a speaker, they are designed to do a specific job.
The McIntosh ML-2 was vastly more expensive than the B&O S75 speaker so perhaps Bob feels I am comparing apples to oranges based on the dollar. But that is not the point, if being a more expensive speaker makes the McIntosh a BETTER speaker that is more dependable and long lasting than just say so. “Jeff if you want a speaker to last over 30 years you have to pay more money,” I would have understood that.
Price is a factor as you tend to get what you pay for, but back to performance I have an inexpensive 1988 Sony boom box that I have beaten to death. It has been to the beach, on my roof while I was making repairs thereof, etc. Yet both cassette recorders and the CD operate like new, ditto the rest of the electronics. So why is it that a stereo system with amp, speakers, cassette and CD player can be left out in the Florida sun, banged around in the trunk of the car and still operate whereas some properly treated B&O products can’t. I am sorry, but I think that is more than a fair question.
Like I said, I appreciate vintage electronics, but I am used to most of them working. I have a functioning 1964 RCA color television which is 48 years old. I have a 1984 Sony 26” color consol that operates well and it is 28 years old. The ’64 RCA was serviced many times, but the ’84 has never seen a repairman and has been transported from one side of the continent to the other three times. Yes, these items are televisions not stereos, but they are electronics and still work.
It is not that I expect electronic products to last forever. I had my 1951 Seeberg jukebox rebuilt, but it is 61 years old…. and the rebuild was in 1979 using some very old parts.
Well Rich of Orlando now I am guilty of letting off steam. I do thank you for the offer to loan me your book, but I gotta tell you, I fear it would be over my head. (I read the synopsis and was impressed, but feel the book exceeds my ability to understand such things.)
Although I didn’t get an answer to my question, I have come to the conclusion that while B&O made some gorgeous products, many even breathtaking products yet some of the components chosen proved to be short lived and thus compromising useful product life.
If you really want some insight on why Item A lasts and Item B does not, you should try to gain some understanding of applied reliability. Short of that, I'm sure you're familiar with the normal/gaussian/bell curve. A few things are short of average, a few things are long of average, but most things are very close to average.
Piaf: Although I didn’t get an answer to my question, I have come to the conclusion that while B&O made some gorgeous products, many even breathtaking products yet some of the components chosen proved to be short lived and thus compromising useful product life.
I would venture to guess that no single manufacturer EVER has tried to make a product that will last forever. Why on earth would you? No repeat business!
On the one hand, you have Apple selling a phone to the same people every year, and on the other hand you have heavy equipment manufacturers perhaps selling a useful life of 10, 20, 30 years. I suspect B&O was somewhere in the middle with their corporate internal thinking and external marketing. I would guess a useful life of about 5 years is about correct with 70s and 80s era gear. Today, it's probably less, and decreasing with each passing year.
The offer to lend the book stands. Just send me your address via PM.
Sorry Jeff, did I use term unfair? I don't remember s...t
I do apologize, but if I did probably in the sense of comparing apples with oranges as you pointed out or with equal men and speakers, even ;)
B&O speakers are good, great even, especially to complete the sound systems oh boy now I gone cross so many - but there are 100's better ones, I personally haven't got experience with McIntosh but NO speaker is no speaker, Jeff, there are differences more important than price... lets just start with output ,
I find amazing that I still can use 40y old speakers (which belong with the system) and they work great in team - not so sure they would compare with speakers double their size and with amp (cutting bass and trebles on different levels than B&O's) exceeding their maximal input/output... and in fairness I wouldn't feel the need to try it (I used to design and build speakers back in the day of DJ-ing ) I also wouldn't want other speaker with the system(s) I use (each of my systems has pair of speakers which was designed to go with) simple for the fact, they don't belong...
I've pointed out that I doubt there be many products these days (regardless on price we've paid for it) which we could enjoy 40years later and that speakers costing some $200 30+years ago still hold their value today, and in fairness didn't all products changed in life expectancy dramatic in years (thanks to consuming ways of living, driving capitalism forward) or, these days products designed and build to last? That was about being fair
So I'm sorry if you felt that you didn't get answer to your fair question, why the properly looked after B&O products cannot work 20,30,40 years + - they sure can and do - there are thousands of them and I'm sorry to say that 20,30y + isn't by any means short lived for consumer electronics.Your experience with old Sony boom box is exceptional (many didn't lived till end of the warranty - I did repair 100's if not 1000's of stereos and hi-fi's across all brands in my life time) .
Please don't think for a moment I'm B&O fanatic - I know their flaws and I'm up to the challenge (being electric&electronic skilled and mechanically inclined makes it extremely easy - I agree) I only started collecting B&O few months ago for what most of my life they we're somewhere to far to be reached for ordinary - nobody like me and I used to walk faster passing B&O dealership as at Technics, AKAI, SONY, Revox, Teac you could get "more for your money" - needless to say most of those products I used to own and use are hard to find these days in working order at all...
Electrolytes will dry up , coils burn, magnets slip (no matter what brand and make) especially with excessive transporting, all electronic parts have certain lifespan (just like us, houses, cars) and yes B&O despite breathtakingly stunning and innovative design of many products, sometime used no so great quality of parts (as pretty much everyone else commissioning production elsewhere) and I'm sure nobody thought they're building them to last "forever ...."
Bob
Shall you have your products from new and look after them well, (and I know you would ;) they might still be flawless, do you have the history of each, do you know how many owners did they go through ? (is once again like with a car, isn't it - without service history you haven't got clue ;)
Once more I apologize if my comments offended you in any way - I be more careful (and not to quick with replies in the future)
Piaf: Ya know, we all see ourselves differently than we are in actuality. To Bob I was being “unfair,” but I do wonder to whom or to what? Rich felt I was blowing off steam, but I don’t feel that fits either. You blow off steam in anger, and I wasn’t angry, displaying more concern than is warranted perhaps, but more confusion than anything else. The problem here is I am an enthusiast, not an electrician and not a mechanic. My knowledge of either is beyond limited, so yes I was surprised to hear about crossover issues with a S75 speaker as I own four of them and thought (apparently incorrectly) that they were fairly bullet-proof. I mentioned that my 41 year old McIntosh speakers are 100% original and perhaps here is where Bob feels I am unfair. Unfair to what? Performance is performance, a speaker is a speaker, they are designed to do a specific job. Price is a factor as you tend to get what you pay for, but back to performance I have an inexpensive 1988 Sony boom box that I have beaten to death. It has been to the beach, on my roof while I was making repairs thereof, etc. Yet both cassette recorders and the CD operate like new, ditto the rest of the electronics. So why is it that a stereo system with amp, speakers, cassette and CD player can be left out in the Florida sun, banged around in the trunk of the car and still operate whereas some properly treated B&O products can’t. I am sorry, but I think that is more than a fair question. Like I said, I appreciate vintage electronics, but I am used to most of them working. I have a functioning 1964 RCA color television which is 48 years old. I have a 1984 Sony 26” color consol that operates well and it is 28 years old. The ’64 RCA was serviced many times, but the ’84 has never seen a repairman and has been transported from one side of the continent to the other three times. Yes, these items are televisions not stereos, but they are electronics and still work. It is not that I expect electronic products to last forever. I had my 1951 Seeberg jukebox rebuilt, but it is 61 years old…. and the rebuild was in 1979 using some very old parts. Well Rich of Orlando now I am guilty of letting off steam. I do thank you for the offer to loan me your book, but I gotta tell you, I fear it would be over my head. (I read the synopsis and was impressed, but feel the book exceeds my ability to understand such things.) Although I didn’t get an answer to my question, I have come to the conclusion that while B&O made some gorgeous products, many even breathtaking products yet some of the components chosen proved to be short lived and thus compromising useful product life. Jeff
Hello Rich,
I imagine we are all familiar with the group that mandated that light bulbs last a specified number of hours and no more, when they easily could have been produced to last for a very long period of time, if not indefinitely. Bad for business, an easy concept to understand.
The European model for building the best product possible was clearly eclipsed by the American model of planned obsolescence. Clearly you are saying that the management of Bang & Olufsen adhered to the American principal. OK, fair enough and that makes sense.
Bang & Olufsen made a superb product with dazzling styling, but intended it to be replaced in around 5 years. We all have to live with this concept of planned obsolescence to keep the world economy going, but that doesn’t mean we all have to like it.
My philosophy in life has been and remains to buy the very best that I can find, take excellent care of it, and keep it forever. This places me admittedly at odds with your gaussian/bell curve. And yes I see this is MY problem not that of B&O.
What disappoints me is that Bang & Olufsen who products I love, did not make their equipment to last….. or at least longer than they actually did.
Case in point my McIntosh 2255 amplifier. Had I treated it the way I like to describe how I care for anything in my care I firmly believe it would have functioned as new until the present day. However for reasons exceeding this conversation I pressed this amp to greatly exceed its capabilities along with the McIntosh ML-2 speakers. The speakers survived the excess, the amp did not.
I sent the McIntosh 2255 back to the factory for repair and they responded that there was not much left to save. Instead they offered me a new amplifier of similar capacities at their COST. It was a ridiculously generous offer…. I checked it out. None the less it was MY amp; I damaged it and wanted it repaired.
I received my amplifier in a new shipping box NEXT DAY AIR with a personal note from the president of McIntosh saying that there was NO invoice as in his opinion my amp “shouldn’t have broken in the first place.”
McIntosh also repaired (largely cleaned) my pre-amp at no charge, provided a new shipping box, but only sent it Second Day Air. Can you blame them?
Now folks, THAT is customer service at its best!
In addition I purchased a McIntosh MI-3Performance Indicator in 1971. An interesting device of dubious actual merit, but it is all original and works perfectly and today is worth FIVE times what I paid for it. You can’t say that of ANY B&O product. For the record the McIntosh 2255 is worth double my purchase price in 1978 on eBay.
So do I still love B&O products? Oh you bet. NO one has ever loved a Beogram 4000 more than I do mine and I look with ecstasy at my (saved from the garbage bin) BeoCenter 9000. Plus the delight that I get from my Beomaster 2400 defiance of time would be difficult to match.
I just need to accept that these B&O products were not designed to last as long as I might like and that is MY problem.
No need to apologize as I wasn’t offended in the least. You are a very good guy!
As for my answer, I got it loud and clear, B&O is more sizzle than steak.
Yea my Sony boom box is still in top form, but I have other exceptions, big screen TV’s didn’t last more than 5 years, at best, but I still have a 1993 Toshiba 35” that I moved coast to coast twice that is still my main entertainment center.
Just to remind you that above mentioned was the question in the original thread, it good to have discussions, but the thread here was Swing asking for help, and not long explanations about why things get old.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Quiet right so, Søren
To the original question, I've happen to reply long time ago, that:
the crossover will most likely need attention or to be replaced I would cross check the drivers (not working tweeter and mid range driver on the working one first, which would eliminate driver problem and narrow the issue to crossover )
crossovers are quiet easily repairable or can be purchased as spares on eBay (I've seen some recently)
P.S. I myself I'm guilty in getting sidetracked Søren , but don't hijack anyone's threads
Søren Mexico: SwingModern: Hi, Hoping to get some ideas on how to fix this S75. Neither the mid nor the tweeter work when I plug the speaker in. I've tested both drivers and the work. I've taken a look at the crossover and nothing seems amiss. All the soldering looks solid. Help, any ideas on how to fix. Thanks. Just to remind you that above mentioned was the question in the original thread, it good to have discussions, but the thread here was Swing asking for help, and not long explanations about why things get old.
Søren,
You are absolutely right. I intended to make a side-comment, not hijack a thread, which is what I did. I apologize.
Back to the point of the thread, help is needed with S-75 speakers….
P.S. Honest guys, sometimes my mouth gets running before my brain kicks in.
You've got mail Jeff
P.S. you're lucky - in my case it's always .....
Piaf: Back to the point of the thread, help is needed with S-75 speakers…. Jeff P.S. Honest guys, sometimes my mouth gets running before my brain kicks in.