ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Dom
2x BeoSystem 3, BeoSystem 5000, BeoSystem 6500, 2x BeoMaster 7000, 2 pair of BeoLab Penta mk2, AV 7000, Beolab 4000, BeoSound 4000, Playmaker, BeoLab 2500, S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-50, C-75, 3x CX-100, 3x MCL2 link rooms, 3x Beolab 2000, M3, P2, Earset, A8 earphones, A3, 2x 4001 relay, H3, H3 ANC, H6, 2014 Audi S5 with B&O sound, and ambio
...Beocreate
So adding massive amounts of processing hardware, ripping out the original crossover, hacksawing the chassis and hot glueing 3D printed parts, just to turn it into a BT device, does that make the CX 100 a better speaker?
Sorry guys, full wireless functionality could have been achieved far easier, better and simpler,- which for the technical part would have been the real B&O DNA.
If B&O was sincere about keeping the old products alive and up to date, they would release the documentation for the products they no longer wish to or can support!
DanTop: Beojeff, Yes the LC1 is amazing, and so is the LC2. I prefer the design on that one. I do not really think(sadly) B&O willl go back to light control again though, considering what philips have done with their Hue system, and the options Lutron gives for total control. And all other brands with options of using IFTTT. But I can say for sure that, if B&O released a new version of the LC, controllable from the app and remote, I would get that in a heartbeat. B&O should go back to a total-concept again, control of the entire house, and not leave some parts of that to other brands. Luckily enough I have a couple of LC to enjoy, and I would never get rid of them for all the cheddar in Somerset! Imagine an LC3, with app conectivity, control of both LED and normal lights, and why not use them as a WiFi extender as well at the same time!
Beojeff,
Yes the LC1 is amazing, and so is the LC2. I prefer the design on that one. I do not really think(sadly) B&O willl go back to light control again though, considering what philips have done with their Hue system, and the options Lutron gives for total control. And all other brands with options of using IFTTT.
But I can say for sure that, if B&O released a new version of the LC, controllable from the app and remote, I would get that in a heartbeat.
B&O should go back to a total-concept again, control of the entire house, and not leave some parts of that to other brands.
Luckily enough I have a couple of LC to enjoy, and I would never get rid of them for all the cheddar in Somerset!
Imagine an LC3, with app conectivity, control of both LED and normal lights, and why not use them as a WiFi extender as well at the same time!
Here in the U.S., we never got the LC2. Therefore, as halogen lamps became popular, we found we could no longer use the LC for halogen.
I see the need approaching for a new add-on for voice interface. B&O has suggested that future products will have built-in voice interfacing for Google Home. For those NL products that lack a microphone, such as the Moment, it would be nice to have an external microphone that could connect using the Line-In. I could see how B&O could come up with some beautiful designs -- such as a small bushed aluminum pyramidal design. Something small and elegant.
Also, as B&O has removed IR from newer products, we really need a way to send LIGHT/CONTROL commands to the BLGW for home automation. Perhaps there could be a small device to send IR LIGHT/CONTROL (plus numeric and color button) commands from a Beo4 and/or bluetooth commands from a BeoRemote One for home automation.
DanTop:BeoGreg, You don’t feel to sell it? 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Hi guys,
I remember how, more than 5 years ago, I had passionate discussions on this forum about the products, the company, the design..
Now I hardly ever log in, because to me there is not much left to discuss.
I also feel that B&O has become just another brand in another world that has nothing to offer to me. My B&O bible talked about the 7 CICs, never compromise on quality, make products that can remain on shelves for 15 to 20 years, and never drop prices.. now all the contrary is happening, there is a plethora of headphones and speakers, but no sound system to go with them, and most of all, everything is app-controlled through your phone..I will NEVER use my phone to control my B&O products, nor anything else anyway, since I don't have a smartphone..and the BeoRemote One doesn't look functional at all to me..first time I needed to read the user guide to understand how it works..and still don't understand.
Like many, I'm keeping my vintage products and would love to buy some new stuff at one stage, but I can't see anything in the current range that moves me! And when it moves me, the price makes me move back..BeoLab 17 are now costing the price of Pentas..seriously? Current BeoVisions are now less expensive than older BVs, but compared to Loewe Tvs, one keeps wondering where is the B&O DNA gone..
Bring me a BeoCenter, a BeoPlay V2, and the magic curtain back, and I may revise my opinion!
Lyle, good info thanks. I just recently found out about it so I dont know so much.
Do you know if a speaker with a Beocreate circuit inside it will show up as any other beoplay speaker in the app?
DMacri, you could be on a good track there 👍🏻
Beovox141, perhaps not a better speaker bit at least a more usefull speaker.
A lot of people love the old design but still want to have the convenience of the modern wireless versions. I think Beocreate is still better tahn nothing, to make it easier to enjoy the old design with the more modern units we all have
Beojeff, Europe is just a tad better in all ways 😎😉
I heard a rumor that B&O soon will release their own voice controlled product, to connect and control all units with. Anyone else heard something similar?
A little aluminium pyramid to do all that you mentioned does indeed sound B&Oisch, a very good idea👍🏻
BeoGreg,
let my save up for a couple of years then, and we can have that talk about the keyring remote😂
Hi Christophe,
Sorry to hear that you got so tired of it all as well. Welcome to the club(thread)! And I am most happy my initial thoughts gave you a reason to log in and share your opinion once again👍🏻
No doubt that a phone to control B&O products is far away from the true DNA, then again it is convinient in many ways. But surely nothing beats a proper unit sitting in it’s place permanently.
I also have a hard time to accept the new Beoremote One. It’s not even close to a Beo4 in feel of quality.
Hi Lyle, so they are controlled like any other bluetooth speaker then? From the bluetooth settings and normal pairing I assume.
Doesnt feel so much B&O but non the less gives the option of at least bringing out the old Beovox and use them even if ones old mein unit is broken or sold. I still call that better than nothing.
Surely a proper app controlled option will arise sooner or later.
Lyle Clarke:Hej DanTop, correct, and for the more technologically adventurous souls more sources can be added via the Raspberry Pi side of things to give some options beyond Bluetooth. Agree that this is not 'B&O enough' yet. To reach that bar we need to make things much simpler, and this is really just baby steps. Just curious, what would you like to see first, ReCreate'd speakers appearing in the app (not multiroom, just the settings, like a normal Bluetooth speaker) or direct control via an Essence Remote?
Just curious, what would you like to see first, ReCreate'd speakers appearing in the app (not multiroom, just the settings, like a normal Bluetooth speaker) or direct control via an Essence Remote?
Lyle,
Since we're so lucky to have you participating in this forum and you brought up the Essence remote....
It would be really great to have someone at B&O elaborate more on the settings of the Essence remote -- including the undocumented extra option settings -- in the Essence documentation on the BeoIntegration site. The description of the various option settings is rather sparse.
DanTop: Beovox141, perhaps not a better speaker bit at least a more usefull speaker. A lot of people love the old design but still want to have the convenience of the modern wireless versions. I think Beocreate is still better tahn nothing, to make it easier to enjoy the old design with the more modern units we all have
So why not do it right instead of "as difficult as possible" I have had active CX 100 with Powerlink connections for 15 years and a wireless version for the last two years.. It really is very simple.
I wonder how many - different - descriptions of ‘the B&O DNA’ we would see, if all forum members had to answer that question.
And, when talking about ‘the old B&O DNA’....is there ‘new B&O DNA’?
Why talking about ‘old DNA’?
As far as I am concerned evolution changes DNA - DNA is not static....and ‘B&O DNA’ never was.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Millemissen: I wonder how many - different - descriptions of ‘the B&O DNA’ we would see, if all forum members had to answer that question. And, when talking about ‘the old B&O DNA’....is there ‘new B&O DNA’? Why talking about ‘old DNA’? As far as I am concerned evolution changes DNA - DNA is not static....and ‘B&O DNA’ never was. MM
I believe what you are describing is de-evolution, you know, "Are we not men? We are DEVO, D-E-V-O".
From an email from a guy who lost his contract engineer job very early sent me...you may remember him.
"B&O outsourced high quality and lean manufacturing to Czech. It was late and the company was basically dead. Tue Mantoni came to board from Triumph and McKinsey to recreate B&O by a: cutting the cost of customization by eliminating anodised colour aluminium and replacing with coloured covers, b: making all products modular, c: outsource amplifier and driver supply to 3rd world manufacturing, and d: creating a sub brand meant to meld Apple cool design, plastic bodies with touches of cheap aluminium, modular electronics, and slave labor.
While this was going one, Tue made himself the face of B&O and replaced designers with accountants, engineers with marketers, and Danes with Chinese, and relaunched Play, twice. He failed as a manufacturer because the products were too expensive and rubbish. When he couldn't complete the sell of the company (it didn't work out as planned with Sparkle) Tue went on a long bicycle ride. But he did put in place a way to save the investors and the top people, including himself.
B&O is a great tradition, a long period of trauma and, today, a cheap imitation of a luxury company run by those who know the Price of everything and the Value of nothing. Just look at who is left of Tue time and who is new".
Me...Cynical and maybe not all true. The company had to do a lot to survive in a world of change. It is now a company for China, Europe, UK, and Scandinavia. I just wish it will focus on quality and design. Then the market decides if it wants to pay the price. It pains to think that Sonos could come into Europe and be better than B&O in a theatre it invented.
So maybe that is an indication of the "new" DNA you describe. Many tried and a few succeeded. Volvo, Lotus, Lego, Nova Nordisk, Nokia, Loewe, etc. Most don't. Saab, Flexa, Trump, Nakamichi, and Chrysler come to mind. Which door will B&O evolve through and will it require totally new ownership like most every comparable situation?
"Don't be afraid, it's only business, The alien prophet sighed" Roger Waters
Millemissen: As far as I am concerned evolution changes DNA - DNA is not static....and ‘B&O DNA’ never was. MM
...........and that is precisely why I mostly dismiss your opinion as a "fanboy"...B&O has/had a heritage/DNA that is being equally trashed and abandoned at a rate of knots!
Ban boring signatures!
B&O definitely lost old DNA. Today you buy 70.000$ beolab speakers, and then you drive them by 35$ chromecast dongle.Magic(and common sense)lost
Beogram 6500 MMC2,Beosound Ouverture,2xBeolab 8000,2xBelolab 4000,Beolab 2,Beolab 7.2,Beo4 navi, 2xBeocom2,Serene,Beosystem 3 mk3,H6 2nd gen,Earphones E8,A8,A9 keyring,Beoplay A1,Bottle opener,Beoplay A2 active(thanks Botty)Wine Set(thanks Botty),4Ktv Samsung 55'',Beolab 7.1 with 42''Panasonic plasma,,Oppo udp-203, LinTronic.
Lyle, but one ”card” is inserted in one of the speakers and that card then connect to the other speakers via cables?
No matter it’s a step on the way of updating the beautiful old design and incorporate in todays technology. That old design is one of the main things I miss so I think it’s great to be able to continue using it.
Oh wow that is one incredibly hard question!
I think if they go into the all they need to be multiroom, if not it will just ”mess up” the flow of the usage in general. Unless you use the Beoplay app, so they connect like a P2 or similar, then multiroom is not needed. But for the main app they need to be multiroom compatible if they show up in the app.
Direct control with the Essence Remote would be delicious! I think I go with that option until all the hurdles of the app are solved 👍🏻
Beovox141, May I ask how you did to hook them up with powerlink and how you made them wireless?
Millemissen, I assume everyone has their own version of what would be the perfect ”DNA” to go back to or compare with or to maintain
But it does seem like most people understood my thoughts, so I guess, well interpretation...
I can take Porsche as an example, I think they as a brand kept their ”DNA” and brand-soul extremely well... They are most consistent in their design language.
Millemissen, I dont think it’s proper ”evolution” to skimp out in design language and change the brand essence by going Chinese. True evolution of the B&O brand in my opinion would be to keep it Danish and embrace the Danish vibe thats been before. Sure make new things, and adapt to modern times but keep the soul of the brand.
Going Chinese feels more like illegal genetic modification, illegal cloning, Dolly, etc etc, than the natural evolution you talk about.
It’s quite different from normal evolution of the DNA like you say.
poodleboy: So maybe that is an indication of the "new" DNA you describe.
So maybe that is an indication of the "new" DNA you describe.
I am not aware, that I described ‘a "new" DNA’ - I did not even try to, I won’t!
I merely asked the question: if there is an old there must also be a new - otherweise there is no logic in talking about an ‘old’ DNA.
Someone could ask the question: has B&O (completely) lost it’s DNA? - that would be fine!
Over the years there have been threads and threads about this subject - for nothing, nothing but pure lust for discussing and arguing (often with hard words).
This thread and the others lead to nothing but to statesments of someones feelings about his relation to the B&O products.
Everyone sees the DNA he wants to see.
For my part, i - still - enjoy having, using and buying B&O products - old as well as new.
My personal setup is a combination of both - the new products do not compromise the old ones in any way.
On the contrary, they add a new dimention - it is as simple as that.
I don’t claim my own setup and my confidence in the ability of B&O to make new products for a new way of using media to be the ultimate thruth.
Everyone can have his opinion on what the B&O DNA is, but that will still be an opinion.
One of the fine things with B&O (products) is, that there are - and can be - so many different usercases —— who is to say which one is right and which is wrong?
A thread like this can only have a purpose, if we try to describe, what we miss today.
Maybe that could even be of help for the guys, who are responsible for the current B&O.
Best leave ‘opinions’ behind, keep a clear head and stay focussed on the future of B&O....
....at least those of us, who still see a future.
Millemissen, since I feel you are commenting on my phrasing in my intial text, i did warn for the posibility of a rant.
And yes I am talking about my feelings of the brand, which I think is more than OK to do in a forum for general discussion... I think the brand has changed compared to what I grew up with. And I feel some things has changed for the better.m but sadly I feel more things has changed for the worst.
In my opinion the ”old DNA” of B&O was to be a groundbraking brand, a brand that made people amazed and other brands jelous. Nowadays I dont feel that B&O impresses in the same way. Therefor a part of their old DNA is gone in my opinion.
I get the feeling you dont like that people discuss things to much?
I still enjoy a lot with B&O as well, but I feel something is missing. It doesnt impress me as much as it used to do.
My setup is a mix as well, of old and new, and no of course not, the new things does not conpromise the old things in any way. Thats not what its abaoit.
I am in no shape or form the person to say whats right or wrong, even if I perhaps made it seem so, I do not remember in this moment of writing, all the other things I said, but I do not think that I made it seem like my opinion was the ultimate one, but mearly my own. I can only say what I miss and wish for.
I did in the end say some things I would like to see, and I had as a main goal to try and inspire for people starting to talk about new fun products they would like to see, products that for example would take the old style and make it new and out a modern touch to it.
I do not see any reason at all to ”leave opinions” behind, that feels very much like a thought police comment to me. And thats my opinion on that! 😉🤪😊
Sure I am not against ‘discussions’ - but these must have a purpose - which to me means to be more than just the usual stating of ‘passionate’ opinions.
I commented on the phrasing (‘old DNA’) in your initial post, yes - otherweise on nothing in there specific.
This forum is free for everyone - how could there be a thought police there!
People may discuss whatever they like - I can stay out....or in, when I please.
It is just that every other previous discussion has not let to much.
You made a post on the BeoCreate thing - and Lyle even commented on that....only to be shot down by someone, who ‘knows how to do that better’.
That is not very fruitful - not what I regard as future-driving/productive.
If this thread could ‘inspire people starting to talk about new fun products’ as you wrote, it would be great - and I would applaud it.
Let us hope it turns out so.
DanTop
one ”card” is inserted in one of the speakers and that card then connect to the other speakers via cables
Exactly. This is the solution for stereo for now. Left/Right pairing over WiFi is currently out of our reach.
Thanks for your thoughts on Essence Remote vs. App (and also, once again, for kicking off this thread).
Hej BeoJeff, I have a feeling there must be another thread on the Essence Remote options that could be brought back to life with specific questions about the options. Maybe you could find that and ask some specific things there, with a starting point in what feels like it is missing from the documents downloadable from BeoIntegration.
If it is a dialog you want then dialog goes where it goes until it goes there no more. If a discussion has to have a purpose then it has to be moderated, and that means someone has to decide what is right and wrong. It is hard to get everything you want unless you want to be moderator and set the boundaries. I certainly don't care for that because I am too close to the end of my time in this dimension to intentionally shorten it.
I don't believe you have a hint of ill will in your body, but I will stand by what I believe; that culture and strategy create the DNA, and at least one former employee described a scenario that impacted culture and strategy deeply. B&O stakeholders around the world are faced with either accepting this new product platform, or wishing for one that is more like what THEY think B&O used to stand for.
It's actually rather simple, and it's ONLY business. I think B&O did whatever it took to save its skin, and had no qualms about what it did to its employees or customers. If I had the intellect (and requisite euros) I would have bought a portion of stock after Tue left and made a great return.
Bow Wow
Millemissen:You made a post on the BeoCreate thing - and Lyle even commented on that....only to be shot down by someone, who ‘knows how to do that better’.
Since my CX version is fully capable of running wireless in stereo, I guess I do
The idea of upcycling the CX was great, unfortunately (No offence Lyle ) it was hit by the new B&O DNA, - overly complicated, semi-beta software driven, no design elements and expensive.
And by the way,-
If you are looking for wireless B&O has this great WISA Transmitter/Receiver set which really is very capable. And powering the CX 100 without resorting to anything else than a credit card, the Beoamp2 will give you 2*150w ICE power in a metal enclosure...
DanTop: Beovox141, May I ask how you did to hook them up with powerlink and how you made them wireless?
Absolutely
My first one was based on a simple LM3886 (aka the gainclone) The aluminium enclosure of the CX 100 act as a heatsink and the PSU (a toroidal transformer) is in the box as well. The simplicity is proven by the fact that it doesn't even need a PCB.
A later revision was based on a TI Class D design. More power an less heat, but more complex.
The wireless version,- that is for a separate thread
BEOVOX141: DanTop: Beovox141, May I ask how you did to hook them up with powerlink and how you made them wireless? Absolutely My first one was based on a simple LM3886 (aka the gainclone) The aluminium enclosure of the CX 100 act as a heatsink and the PSU (a toroidal transformer) is in the box as well. The simplicity is proven by the fact that it doesn't even need a PCB. A later revision was based on a TI Class D design. More power an less heat, but more complex. The wireless version,- that is for a separate thread
Did you notice any difference in the bass due to the volume of the components, especially the toroid? Seems like depending on the transformer and such you could eat up a significant amount of the internal volume and change the bass alignment.
Great idea though, would love to see more of how you did it all.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Millemissen, I do not agree with some of your opinions and I do agree with a couple, so I will leave it there instead of going through every comment.
Having Lyle talking about the Beocreate was exactly one of the things I was hoping for.
There is nothing better than open discussion that potentially could lead to some good ideas👍🏻
Lyle, thanks for your comments in the thread. I am really looking forward to see where Beocreate will go!
Beovox141, hmm that sounds pretty sweet. Would you be able to post some photos here? Would love to see how you set it up👍🏻
And if you feel to, please do ”hijack” this thread to post the details of the wireless version. I do not mind the slightest since it is exactly what I meant for this thread, ways to update old stuff!