ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
So I took the plunge and bought the H9i after listening to a pair of H9's at the local dealer.Brought them home and prepared myself for an evening of listening pleasure.How wrong was I.First off I upgraded the firmware to the latest version via the B&O app, so I have 5.03
Put the headphones on and started to play some music and it pauses at random times with no input from me.Volume control is terrible, having to rotate my finger around the touchpad a dozen or more times to even get a small change. Altering my finger position does little to help, instead resulting in it deciding I asked to switch on/off ANC, or skip tracks.
Sometimes I will get a bleep in the earpiece, music pauses, and the led turns orange, and the whole thing just locks up. If i try to unpause via my iPhone it instantly pauses again. By instantly i mean that the icon on the phone screen flashes between play and pause in a fraction of a second. I have to switch off the H9i to get back control of my phone.ANC is poor, with a very noticeable hiss in the background when there is no music playing.
Listening to some songs (between pauses!) there is also noticeable distortion of S's when ANC is switched on.All of the above was tested via bluetooth, and also via cable connection.
Has anyone else experienced any of these issues?I called the B&O dealer this morning and he said bring them in and we'll send them off to the service centre. Seriously? I bought these things less than 24 hours ago and now I have to wait for you to send them off for repair? What happened to good customer service where a product is just replaced if it was clearly defective when you bought it?For a premium pair of headphones costing €500, these are not problems I would have expected to be having. Sure, they sound great, when you can actually listen to them, but these should never have made it through QC.
Software upgrade?Wasn't the software working when they were sold?It can't be the buyers job to make things work he just bought.Software is just another part of the item, and of course the whole item should work as expected and promised when purhased.Replacing bad software with new is a repair. I would never accept having to do repairs to anything I just bought, to make it work as advertized.
First thing should always be to look in the manual and make sure you are using the item correctly.Then, if something is not working take it back to the dealer and have them fix it. Hardware or software or whatever.
Martin
w5bno123:I have to update products such as my iPhone when it comes out of the box, this is common practice in the software driven world we now live in. Bugs and fixes occur on a regular basis with most modern electronics...
Yes, but it was working as promised, when you bought it.Then, later, things around the item changes and the item can be changed to suit. If a repair, be that to hardware or software, is necessary to make the thing work, I would expect this to be done beforethe dealer hands the thing over to me in the shop.
Bugs are faults.A working item has no bugs.
w5bno123:Hi We have had a rare out of the box issue with a pair of H9i. One other person had the same symptoms you described and after a factory reset following the software update they worked well. One other thing, do you put the headphones on first then switch them on as this plays havoc with the proximity sensor, the music will stop. You need to have them in your hand, turn them on, wait 1/2 a second then place them on your head. You can. Is disable the proximity feature. Hope this helps before a trip back to your dealer. BTW you should be able to straight swap these at the store and let them deal with the warranty return behind the scenes. We have had an instance where a pair of earphones purchased from us were deemed faulty and we insisted on sending them back to be screened, thankfully we did as they had been through the washing machine (he confessed after!) not saying your H9i have!
We have had a rare out of the box issue with a pair of H9i. One other person had the same symptoms you described and after a factory reset following the software update they worked well.
One other thing, do you put the headphones on first then switch them on as this plays havoc with the proximity sensor, the music will stop. You need to have them in your hand, turn them on, wait 1/2 a second then place them on your head. You can. Is disable the proximity feature. Hope this helps before a trip back to your dealer. BTW you should be able to straight swap these at the store and let them deal with the warranty return behind the scenes. We have had an instance where a pair of earphones purchased from us were deemed faulty and we insisted on sending them back to be screened, thankfully we did as they had been through the washing machine (he confessed after!) not saying your H9i have!
Ban boring signatures!
Dillen: Bugs are faults. A working item has no bugs. Martin
Duels: Dillen: Bugs are faults. A working item has no bugs. Martin All software has bugs.
Bugs are faults. A working item has no bugs.
All software has bugs.
But it doesn't have to - and not to the point that the product doesn't do the basics, - this is not a bug it is a defective productive, knowingly sold by the manufacturer .............. criminal!
Puncher:But it doesn't have to - and not to the point that the product doesn't do the basics, - this is not a bug it is a defective productive, knowingly sold by the manufacturer .............. criminal! Ban boring signatures!
Duels: Puncher: But it doesn't have to - and not to the point that the product doesn't do the basics, - this is not a bug it is a defective productive, knowingly sold by the manufacturer .............. criminal! Ban boring signatures! It does have to I’m afraid Puncher. No one has yet found a way to develop software that is bug free. I agree completely that the nature of the bugs can render a product useless or frustrating but that wasn’t my point. I was simply commenting on a statement that said a working item has no software bugs because that statement is incorrect.
Puncher: But it doesn't have to - and not to the point that the product doesn't do the basics, - this is not a bug it is a defective productive, knowingly sold by the manufacturer .............. criminal! Ban boring signatures!
It does have to I’m afraid Puncher. No one has yet found a way to develop software that is bug free.
I agree completely that the nature of the bugs can render a product useless or frustrating but that wasn’t my point. I was simply commenting on a statement that said a working item has no software bugs because that statement is incorrect.
Really? In my career we delivered a lot of products that were heavily dependent on software that didn't get any updates or fixes until the customer wanted to add additional capabilities, or tweak the performance (e.g. adjust autopilot gains as the drag of the bird was measured wrong). Of course we did very extensive testing, but then the devices we built were far, far more complex than a pair of headphones or a BlueTooth speaker.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
The purchaser should not need to upgrade software "out of the box", the dealer should do that prior to sale. These are expensive headphones and should work on receipt.
Regards Graham
Jeff:Really? In my career we delivered a lot of products that were heavily dependent on software that didn't get any updates or fixes until the customer wanted to add additional capabilities, or tweak the performance (e.g. adjust autopilot gains as the drag of the bird was measured wrong). Of course we did very extensive testing, but then the devices we built were far, far more complex than a pair of headphones or a BlueTooth speaker. Jeff Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!
Puncher:I hope this is in the manual! Ban boring signatures!
Duels: Jeff: Really? In my career we delivered a lot of products that were heavily dependent on software that didn't get any updates or fixes until the customer wanted to add additional capabilities, or tweak the performance (e.g. adjust autopilot gains as the drag of the bird was measured wrong). Of course we did very extensive testing, but then the devices we built were far, far more complex than a pair of headphones or a BlueTooth speaker. Jeff Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list! I accept all of that Jeff. Extensive testing will identify bugs and then all known bugs can be addressed or worked around if one is so inclined. But I’ll guarantee you bugs will remain that have not been discovered. They may not impact on what it is you want the software to do if your testing is good but they will be there. They always are. My point is a pure one about software development, all code has bugs. I am not saying for one moment that stuff shouldn’t work properly. If you are still in touch with the guys who did the development for you ask them if they could guarantee their code to be bug free (not whether they have fixed all the bugs they have found but whether they guarantee they have found all the bugs). I’ll bet you a beer I know their answer. 🍺
Jeff: Really? In my career we delivered a lot of products that were heavily dependent on software that didn't get any updates or fixes until the customer wanted to add additional capabilities, or tweak the performance (e.g. adjust autopilot gains as the drag of the bird was measured wrong). Of course we did very extensive testing, but then the devices we built were far, far more complex than a pair of headphones or a BlueTooth speaker. Jeff Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!
Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!
I accept all of that Jeff. Extensive testing will identify bugs and then all known bugs can be addressed or worked around if one is so inclined. But I’ll guarantee you bugs will remain that have not been discovered. They may not impact on what it is you want the software to do if your testing is good but they will be there. They always are.
My point is a pure one about software development, all code has bugs. I am not saying for one moment that stuff shouldn’t work properly.
If you are still in touch with the guys who did the development for you ask them if they could guarantee their code to be bug free (not whether they have fixed all the bugs they have found but whether they guarantee they have found all the bugs). I’ll bet you a beer I know their answer. 🍺
Thank you Captain Pedantic! If a "bug" does not affect the operation of the machine during it's normal and even extreme performance boundaries, is it a bug? For example, if after 10 minutes of flight there's a "bug" in the autopilot that causes a buffer overflow that crashes the computer to occur, when the maximum flight duration between missile and target is about 90 seconds, is that a bug?
The simple fact is that far to many companies, especially B&O, do not perform adequate testing, either originally or for updates, and it's shocking. It IS possible to deliver code that is for all practical purposes bug free, that does not immediately need updates or patches. Whether there's a pedantic bug somewhere in there that is undetectable calls into question just what you are calling a bug, semantically as well as practically. One system we pushed out went 5 years without a s/w update, despite being in nearly constant combat use, until such time as additional capability was added to expand the mission capabilities. No s/w related issues were ever discovered in the field with that release, although a couple of hardware issues were addressed, such as power supply transistors which would occasionally blow.
Jeff:Thank you Captain Pedantic! If a "bug" does not affect the operation of the machine during it's normal and even extreme performance boundaries, is it a bug? For example, if after 10 minutes of flight there's a "bug" in the autopilot that causes a buffer overflow that crashes the computer to occur, when the maximum flight duration between missile and target is about 90 seconds, is that a bug?
Duels: Jeff: Thank you Captain Pedantic! If a "bug" does not affect the operation of the machine during it's normal and even extreme performance boundaries, is it a bug? For example, if after 10 minutes of flight there's a "bug" in the autopilot that causes a buffer overflow that crashes the computer to occur, when the maximum flight duration between missile and target is about 90 seconds, is that a bug? Yes.
Jeff: Thank you Captain Pedantic! If a "bug" does not affect the operation of the machine during it's normal and even extreme performance boundaries, is it a bug? For example, if after 10 minutes of flight there's a "bug" in the autopilot that causes a buffer overflow that crashes the computer to occur, when the maximum flight duration between missile and target is about 90 seconds, is that a bug?
Yes.
I would say you're incorrect. The textbook definition of a software bug is:
A software bug is an error, flaw, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways.
If the "bug" as you call it is incapable of being manifested during the normal operation of the system, indeed in this instance beyond the life of the system, it never meets the definition of a bug.
How much s/w development work have you done? If you have, what standards or definitions does your technical realm use that's different than my aerospace/DoD one? I am certain NATO is similar to identical to our DoD standards, as we did develop dual use systems for Europe and the US.
As it is, you're getting hung up on semantics as a reason to be pedantic about it. Now if you said no s/w was perfect, I could easily agree with that, as it includes both issues that will never been seen as above and also inartfully or inefficiently coded algorithms.
Yendys:Yes it is in the online manual accessed from Beoplay app
w5bno123: Yendys: Yes it is in the online manual accessed from Beoplay app Following the latest software update
Yendys: Yes it is in the online manual accessed from Beoplay app
Yes it is in the online manual accessed from Beoplay app
Following the latest software update
Outstanding!
Reminds me of the Devil's Data Processing Dictionary definition of endless loop:
Endless Loop, n. - See Loop, Endless
Loop, Endless, n. - See Endless Loop
Jeff:I would say you're incorrect. The textbook definition of a software bug is: A software bug is an error, flaw, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways. If the "bug" as you call it is incapable of being manifested during the normal operation of the system, indeed in this instance beyond the life of the system, it never meets the definition of a bug. How much s/w development work have you done? If you have, what standards or definitions does your technical realm use that's different than my aerospace/DoD one? I am certain NATO is similar to identical to our DoD standards, as we did develop dual use systems for Europe and the US. As it is, you're getting hung up on semantics as a reason to be pedantic about it. Now if you said no s/w was perfect, I could easily agree with that, as it includes both issues that will never been seen as above and also inartfully or inefficiently coded algorithms. Jeff Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!
So, you have no software development experience and are just sticking to your guns regardless. Whatever floats your boat, Captain Pedantic!
Jeff:So, you have no software development experience and are just sticking to your guns regardless. Whatever floats your boat, Captain Pedantic! Jeff Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!
Duels: Jeff: So, you have no software development experience and are just sticking to your guns regardless. Whatever floats your boat, Captain Pedantic! Jeff Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list! What’s with name-calling? I thought Beoworld raised itself above petty stuff like that Jeff. This is turning sour so I’m going to leave it here. But if you give me the names of those guys who wrote the bug-free code I’m hiring them on Monday.
Jeff: So, you have no software development experience and are just sticking to your guns regardless. Whatever floats your boat, Captain Pedantic! Jeff Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!
What’s with name-calling? I thought Beoworld raised itself above petty stuff like that Jeff.
This is turning sour so I’m going to leave it here. But if you give me the names of those guys who wrote the bug-free code I’m hiring them on Monday.
So, you don't have any s/w development experience or training.
Perhaps you'd care to explain why people with no experience in a subject feel the need to lecture other, more knowledgeable people about things they don't themselves understand, continue to double down on their ignorance about the subject when called on it, and then get oh so pissy about "what's with the name calling!" It's a sure sign of an insecure person incapable of admitting error and who then attempts to deflect to the awful tone of the conversation, oh law, and throw a hissy fit about that. Seen it many times, you're not the first to be shown to be all hat and no cattle.
Well, bless your little heart Duels.You don't seem to be able to see your attitude and posts are insulting to me, I just love being lectured and talked down to over tech subjects I have decades of experience in, but you are sure happy to try and hide behind your own huffiness. I've noticed this passive aggressive approach by more than one person on here, and it never comes off as well as you think.
I agree that one reason to buy from a store is the expectation that some of the mark-up is earned by them ensuring it'll be up to date and working.
I'd assume the same from Beoplay if they pocket that markup and spend a fraction of it on posting a ready to use H9i .
I imagine the packaging should be designed so that it doesn't look like it's been a returned product when the headphones have been taken out and put back in!
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
Duels:It does have to I’m afraid Puncher.
Nonsense! I have a houseful of appliances that rely on software, as does everyone else. How many times have you had to flash your washing machine firmware?
Puncher:Nonsense! I have a houseful of appliances that rely on software, as does everyone else. How many times have you had to flash your washing machine firmware? Ban boring signatures!
Jeff:So, you don't have any s/w development experience or training. Perhaps you'd care to explain why people with no experience in a subject feel the need to lecture other, more knowledgeable people about things they don't themselves understand, continue to double down on their ignorance about the subject when called on it, and then get oh so pissy about "what's with the name calling!" It's a sure sign of an insecure person incapable of admitting error and who then attempts to deflect to the awful tone of the conversation, oh law, and throw a hissy fit about that. Seen it many times, you're not the first to be shown to be all hat and no cattle. Well, bless your little heart Duels.You don't seem to be able to see your attitude and posts are insulting to me, I just love being lectured and talked down to over tech subjects I have decades of experience in, but you are sure happy to try and hide behind your own huffiness. I've noticed this passive aggressive approach by more than one person on here, and it never comes off as well as you think. Jeff Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!
Duels: Puncher: Nonsense! I have a houseful of appliances that rely on software, as does everyone else. How many times have you had to flash your washing machine firmware? Ban boring signatures! Any LG model WM3170CW made pre April 2915.
Puncher: Nonsense! I have a houseful of appliances that rely on software, as does everyone else. How many times have you had to flash your washing machine firmware? Ban boring signatures!
Any LG model WM3170CW made pre April 2915.
So, not every model they release then, over and over again? How about all the other stuff, your Dyson Vac etc.? How come my Panasonic TV did/does all the things it says it can do straight out of the box with a long series of fixes/updates/ patches etc.
It can be done and any bug should be very much an exception rather than the norm which unfortunately is very much the case with B&O. In some respects they are lucky that they are a low volume manufacturer, the cost of large scale warranty issues both in Dollars and reputation for a large manufacturer could be ruinous.
Let me get this clear , Duels is nothing to do with software programming but he wants the names and addresses of some so he can hire them?
Jon:I think I agree with Jeff here. While software isn’t always perfect (would be out of a job if it were 😂), it doesn’t always have to be awful too and I don’t think B&O/the contractors they use to make their software understand that. These headphones are £449, the software and everything else needs to be as close to perfect as possible straight out of the box - if Sony can make a pair of wireless headphones and charge £180 for them and manage to have seemingly bugless software (cheap sound/plastic build quality aside of course), B&O sure as hell should too.
Agree with you on this. And contrary to what some people think with their "Show me one of these perfect programmers and I'll hire them" kind of talk, there are no perfect programmers, ever. A lot of people can even screw up the old HELLO WORLD thing as simple as it is through carelessness. It's the whole development environment for software, which is directly controlled and determined by the management philosophy of the company, that spells the difference between success and failure. Software development is an iterative process, code, test, recode, test, patch, test, etc. In the defense industry, standards were strictly enforced, there was ONE way to do it, per the required development process specifications, whereas in the civilian and especially consumer electronics market it's up the management. It appears obvious that either B&O is desperately in need of expertise in s/w development or, more likely in my view, they are unwilling or unable to take the time and put the money into it required to do it better. We used to laugh at the people who said that if there was a decision to do something via hardware or software they'd say well do it in software it's cheaper. Back then it was at least 10 times as expensive to do it via software, due to all the testing and documentation.
It's easy to encounter these issues with people who don't understand software. Oh, it's easy, just push it out, it'll work if not it's just a patch. And a ton of disappointed and angry customers and declining reputation. And regression testing is expensive, so the attitude is, well, we're only changing a couple of things, the rest of the software will be fine. How's that been working out for B&O lately? For those who don't know, in regression testing, say you have a software application that does 10 different things. You make a change to function 8 of the software, you don't just test function 8, you go back and retest ever function 1-10, and as often as not you'll find your one simple patch broke something else.
In all the years I spent in industry, out of all the missile tests I've seen, out of the ones I personally was there for I never once saw a flight failure due to software. Hardware and/or manufacturing issues, yes, software no. The space shuttle was an amazingly complex set of software driven systems, but the two flight failures of it were both due to hardware issues. It can be done, and for a consumer electronics company it doesn't even need to be anywhere near that perfectly, but there's no excuse for doing it as poorly as B&O has been doing it lately. In the 5 years I've owned my Panasonic plasma tv and my Oppo Blue Ray player, I've had a couple of firmware updates for each. They went through without a hitch, didn't brick the devices, and didn't induce problems or have to be immediately followed by another firmware update to correct the correction, so it can be done in the commercial world.
I had no intention of insulting your experience or intelligence Jeff, genuinely. I am sure you are an expert in your field. Can we all be friends please chaps?
Can we all be friends please chaps?
Simonbeo: I agree that one reason to buy from a store is the expectation that some of the mark-up is earned by them ensuring it'll be up to date and working. I'd assume the same from Beoplay if they pocket that markup and spend a fraction of it on posting a ready to use H9i . I imagine the packaging should be designed so that it doesn't look like it's been a returned product when the headphones have been taken out and put back in! Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8 , MX 5500 . Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8 , MX 5500 . Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.
That should be easy for a dealer.....”enjoy your new headphones Sir/Madam. Before you leave would you like us to ensure you have the very latest software updates? If not it’s quite straightforward to do at home. Whichever you prefer.”
Jeff:Jeff Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!