ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
In case you mean the NL/ML-converter, when you say "NL adaptor"???
To connect multiple BV11/V1 and future NL-products you don't need the converter.
This is only needed, when you want to connect a NL-product and one or more ML-products.
The Encore has no NL-support - and probably never will have. It is a standalone-product.
Greetings Millemissen
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: In case you mean the NL/ML-converter, when you say "NL adaptor"??? To connect multiple BV11/V1 and future NL-products you don't need the converter. This is only needed, when you want to connect a NL-product and one or more ML-products. The Encore has no NL-support - and probably never will have. It is a standalone-product. Greetings Millemissen
Yes, thats what I meant :). So the NL-traffic is going over the same IP-network as your regular computer network at home then? Thats nice to hear. And I suppose you just use one NL/ML-converter in the network and that all NL-units can connect to the ML-devices then? I know the Encore has no support for NL, but neither did the V1 at first, so perhaps it will gain it? Now both BS5 and the Encore is pretty useless for me at least - and maybe it still is even with NL. Hard to say :).
Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)
Only 2 products are NL compatible, The BV11 and the V1. Both of them have a software limitation that they can only be video master, so I do not think that you could have 2 in the same network anyway.
p.
Beoworld app with direct photo upload and emoticons.
@Michael You should always set up a NL-network as a subnetwork with its own router!
You only need one converter from your NL-product to the old ML-network.
The V1 is build on the same engine/has the same technology as the BV11. The Encore is different.Though it might be possible, I don't think the will ever change the firmware of that. Time for new NL-enabled audioproducts with AirPlay/DLNA-support.
@Phil This is no secret anymore:
"During spring we will further develop the Network Link capabilities to include echo-free sound distribution (Party-mode)as well as the possibility to allow both BeoPlay V1 and BeoVision 11 to work as a link room TV in a Network Link setup with either BeoVision 11 or another BeoPlay V1 in the main room. This means you can connect multiple Network Link TVs in the setup and distribute sound to one or all of them simultaneously."
It is time for every BV11-owner to start saving money for a V1 for the bedroom, kirchen etc.
Those who have the cash might even prefer buying a second or third BV11
We have learned from the ongoing discussions as well , that technical performance of V1 has got very close to the BV11. Apart from the price the biggest difference between them is the outlook , you should like the V1 or hate it. I belong to the first category. It is properly to integrate into an modern living room likewise to the good old MX7000 which was the nicest television B&O ever made (according to my taste).
Millemissen: @Michael You should always set up a NL-network as a subnetwork with its own router!
Why would you want to do that? Then those units would be on a different ip range and unable to communicate with DLNA and AirPlay on your "main" network, am I wrong? I work as an IT technician so I am a bit perplexed :P But of course there might be good reason to do so.
Millemissen: The V1 is build on the same engine/has the same technology as the BV11. The Encore is different.Though it might be possible, I don't think the will ever change the firmware of that. Time for new NL-enabled audioproducts with AirPlay/DLNA-support.
I think you might be right about that.
Millemissen: @Phil This is no secret anymore: "During spring we will further develop the Network Link capabilities to include echo-free sound distribution (Party-mode)as well as the possibility to allow both BeoPlay V1 and BeoVision 11 to work as a link room TV in a Network Link setup with either BeoVision 11 or another BeoPlay V1 in the main room. This means you can connect multiple Network Link TVs in the setup and distribute sound to one or all of them simultaneously." It is time for every BV11-owner to start saving money for a V1 for the bedroom, kirchen etc.
Nice to read that they are trying to fix the delayed audio that is the problem with the masterlink to NL, even if I think it will only be working good on the new sources and not ML. Apple has solved this very good and I can stream music to several AirPlay sources without any delay from a Mac server. And since the only NL-unit I have is the V1 I guess I have to start saving for a BV11
Michael: Then those units would be on a different ip range and unable to communicate with DLNA and AirPlay on your "main" network, am I wrong?
What about setting the "subnet mask" of the B&O net to 255.255.0.0 instead of 255.255.255.0
Michael: Why would you want to do that? But of course there might be good reason to do so.
In a small and simple one or two user(s) network a single gigabit network and a network harddisk "for everything" might be sufficient.
The idea of separating the traffic might seem OTT at the moment, but when you start transmitting full BluRay quality in 3D (as ISO or BDMV file) this will be a bit more demanding than distributing MP3 or lossles audio.
And in larger setups with simultanous video streams in full HD quality the traffic will muliply. In such cases further separation of the "two worlds" might be a good idea. A dedicated switch and NAS for homeentertainment being capable of port trunking will provide the needed bandwidth fore demanding installations.
Vienna: Michael: Then those units would be on a different ip range and unable to communicate with DLNA and AirPlay on your "main" network, am I wrong? What about setting the "subnet mask" of the B&O net to 255.255.0.0 instead of 255.255.255.0
Creating a subnet mask with 255.255.0.0 will not help. Michael is right. If you want to connect an Apple TV or NAS it must be connected to the subnetwork.
DoubleU: Creating a subnet mask with 255.255.0.0 will not help. Michael is right. If you want to connect an Apple TV or NAS it must be connected to the subnetwork.
You're right, has been a "very late night thought"
@Michael "Nice to read that they are trying to fix the delayed audio that is the problem with the masterlink to NL, even if I think it will only be working good on the new sources and not ML. Apple has solved this very good and I can stream music to several AirPlay sources without any delay from a Mac server."
Initially I thought of taking the first sentence of my quotation out, before posting - it wasn't that subject I wanted to get into.
But since you commented on it, here are my thoughts:
In a 'pure' NL-setup you won't have to deal with sound-delay - it is the analog/digital convertion (NL/ML-converter) that gives us those problems. I don't think that that will ever be solved - but we should be gratefull that Bang & Olufsen has created the converter. Any other brand would have said "Sorry, throw your old stuff away and get some new all-dgital stuff".
Apple/AirPlay has never had to solve that kind of problem - AirPlay is all-digital per definition.
And by the way: You can't stream to different AirPlay-devices at the same time from a Mac server.
You can use iTunes on a PC/Mac (or AirParrot or AirPlay-mirroring) to play to different AirPlay-devices... - and you can have iTunes getting the content from a server (e.g.on a NAS). But you will always have to run a PC/Mac for this.
Works well, but it isn't as comfortable as one might wish for.
------
You don't need to save for a BV11, another V1 will do
@Vienna, DoubleU, Michael
To understand how to set up a BeoLink NL-network I think we will all have to learn quite a bit..
Especially if we want to combine the NL with our existing HomeNetwork.
I am looking forward to a lot of informative postings
Millemissen: @Vienna, DoubleU, Michael To understand how to set up a BeoLink NL-network I think we will all have to learn quite a bit.. Especially if we want to combine the NL with our existing HomeNetwork.
Yes, Interesting!!
Well, the way I see it, the NL/ML convertor is basicly nothing more then a bridge that converts sound and commands in both ways.
To set it up in an existing homenetwork is something different and can be tricky. So here some thoughts the way I see it... Suppose you only use your existing router, this router can get very occupied if you are a heavy downloader, backing up massive files via FTP, watching HD-content and transferring audio via the NL/ML convertor, all at the same time.
So like Vienna allready suggested, B&O wants you to create a subnet with a 2nd router, to seperate the traffic. Easier said than done... For example, if you have NAS, in my opinion it should be connected to the subnet, but in an existing homenetwork it is connected to your existing router and in a place that in most cases is not nearby the 2nd router. This means some serious change in your infra-structure.
On paper it’s all easy how it should be connected if you understand network structure. In practice it can be troublesome.
DoubleU: Yes, Interesting!! Well, the way I see it, the NL/ML convertor is basicly nothing more then a bridge that converts sound and commands in both ways. To set it up in an existing homenetwork is something different and can be tricky. So here some thoughts the way I see it... Suppose you only use your existing router, this router can get very occupied if you are a heavy downloader, backing up massive files via FTP, watching HD-content and transferring audio via the NL/ML convertor, all at the same time. So like Vienna allready suggested, B&O wants you to create a subnet with a 2nd router, to seperate the traffic. Easier said than done... For example, if you have NAS, in my opinion it should be connected to the subnet, but in an existing homenetwork it is connected to your existing router and in a place that in most cases is not nearby the 2nd router. This means some serious change in your infra-structure. On paper it’s all easy how it should be connected if you understand network structure. In practice it can be troublesome.
I do not see this as a big issue. I mean, on a network not all devices have to get the same data. You can transfer a HD movie between NL-devices without any problems with your internet traffic to other devices if the network is planned in a good way and has a good backbone in the switches and router. And 10Gbit switches is probably going down in prices in a few years and then it is very much a no problem at all. But I actually do not see it as an issue at all today even.
Millemissen: @Michael "Nice to read that they are trying to fix the delayed audio that is the problem with the masterlink to NL, even if I think it will only be working good on the new sources and not ML. Apple has solved this very good and I can stream music to several AirPlay sources without any delay from a Mac server." Initially I thought of taking the first sentence of my quotation out, before posting - it wasn't that subject I wanted to get into. But since you commented on it, here are my thoughts: In a 'pure' NL-setup you won't have to deal with sound-delay - it is the analog/digital convertion (NL/ML-converter) that gives us those problems. I don't think that that will ever be solved - but we should be gratefull that Bang & Olufsen has created the converter. Any other brand would have said "Sorry, throw your old stuff away and get some new all-dgital stuff". Apple/AirPlay has never had to solve that kind of problem - AirPlay is all-digital per definition. And by the way: You can't stream to different AirPlay-devices at the same time from a Mac server. You can use iTunes on a PC/Mac (or AirParrot or AirPlay-mirroring) to play to different AirPlay-devices... - and you can have iTunes getting the content from a server (e.g.on a NAS). But you will always have to run a PC/Mac for this. Works well, but it isn't as comfortable as one might wish for. ------ You don't need to save for a BV11, another V1 will do Greetings Millemissen
Ha I guess you are right, but a BV11 could be nice :P. About Mac server I meant that If I run iTunes on my home server I can then connect via the remote app on my iPhone and choose to play in several AirPlay-devices at once. That I can not do from my iPhones own music player.
Do you know if there is any material available about the NL/ML Converter? I have only found the stupid guide on Bang-olufsen.com that shows its input and nothing else. I want to read all I can read about it :)
DoubleU: B&O wants you to create a subnet with a 2nd router, to seperate the traffic. Easier said than done... For example, if you have NAS, in my opinion it should be connected to the subnet, but in an existing homenetwork it is connected to your existing router and in a place that in most cases is not nearby the 2nd router. This means some serious change in your infra-structure.
When B&O is talking about a NAS in a larger setup they do not mean something like a WD My Book Live Duo or similar.They recommend NAS systems like Iomega NAS StorCenter px4-300, QNAP TS-269 Pro Turbo or larger , SYNOLOGY DiskStation DS713+ or larger , ...
All these units offer two Gbit-LAN ports - you will be able to configure one for your existig "main" network and use the other for the B&O Network Link subnet.Just remember, a lossy heavily compressed "HD" file for ATV may have 5 to 7GB, an uncompressed 3D ISO or BDMV file of a BluRay stored on your NAS 70-80 GB per movie.
So, in very demanding installations a dedicated NAS only used for the B&O Network can use port trunking to almost double the output.
Of course the PC/Mac used for "editing" will need a second network adapter (wired or wireless) to accessboth networks simultanously.
Finally, there is an other good reason for B&O dealers to separate networks. If a B&O dealer does not "touch" the existing main network, he does not need to know customer passwords or has to change settings.
Therefore he can't be held responsible for troubles that might happen in the main network of his customer! His responsibility will be limited to deliver a well performing BeoNet ...
Right, like I said, easier said than done.. So after you make the plunge to buy a V1 or BV11 with an expensive NL/ML convertor, you need to upgrade your NAS too. I don't think most customers with a NAS already have the recommended NAS with 2 LAN ports. Not to mention the cabling that goes with it.
I can see that that a setup like that will not interfere with the existing main network and deliver a trouble-free BeoNet. But just adding a NL/ML convertor + 2nd router is certainly not the all-in-one solution. You're only halfway there.
i strongly disagree with the solution to use several routers but perhaps thats the route B&O wants to take. I think it sounds quite strange. I would use VLANS instead which is easy to maintain with a good network backbone. That way different ports can be on different VLANS. If the NAS has several ports I would use them as you say for link aggregation for twice the performance.
By the way, the BV11 and V1 only has 100 mbit ethernet. So you would need a few TV´s to max the network performance :P.
Michael, no doubt you know what you are talking about, but most customers aren’t. And most installers are no experts in IT either.
Seperating the existing network and the Network Link with only recommended products is easier to setup and maintain in the future. Dealers won’t have issues with the main network. I think that’s the whole idea why B&O wants to take that route.
DoubleU is right when he writes "that's the whole idea why....."
But we - and Bang & Olufsen and the dealers - will have to deal with the fact that many of the costumers can't/won't make this strict distinction between homenet and beonet.
There will be plenty of costumers with small setups, who need some kind of practical advice how to deal with NL-products without beginning from scratch.
Not everyone, who has e.g. a V1 - and wants to stream movies and music to it - will be willing to buy a second router and a NAS with two lan-ports. Especially not if he already has a good NAS running.
Only those dealers who can think of cleaver solutions and who wants to help with 'alternative' setups, will stay in business.
I don't think they will all be be able to live only from costumers who buy/let install large and expensive setups based on 'pure NL-technology'.
It will in near future be very important for us Beoworlders to share our experiences with the new NL-based setups.
A lot of us know a great deal about ML, but time has changed...
There is in fact plenty of different documentation about NL and how to set it up, and of the new converter too.
But - as far as I know - there is no compendium, no NL-bible
And most of the documentation seems to be pre-BV11/V1.
Still plenty of work to do for Bang & Olufsen and for the Beoworld-community
P.S. @kiw4all Sorry for almost pirating your thread.
To your initial question about the software-update of the V1 there is a quick answer - the V1 behaves now just like the BV11.
The update - and the forthcoming updates - seems to be a lot more than just getting access to smart-tv functions. It gives us the possibility to start setting up NL-networks for real.
For now you're limited to using the V1 as a Master, which will conflict with your BV7.
When they update the software again and you can finally use it as a slave or link TV, you'll be able to get AUDIO from your TV and BS5. No video.
... however the BM5 is also a DLNA server. That means that you should be able to play media (all) stored on the BM5 on your V1. This uses a standard TCP-IP connection from the BM5 to the V1 and does not need to go through a converter.