falling prices of semi vintage?

I was surfing blocket.se the swedish market place for just about everything..

are these exampels of cheap equipment?

100kr currently 11€

BL3500 at 4500kr

Beosystem3500 (master tape and CD) at 2500kr

Link converter 1611 at 400kr

beosystem 5500 including MCP 3500kr and 4000kr

and I only listed the ones that seem to be in really good condition, else not of interest

so what do you think?

It is the times of te world right now.. No one want to buy anything, boats are unsellabe, unless you sell the boat at 50% of the "market price" or the market price as it shall be.. 
When the time is getting better the prices will rise again..

 

These are prices that I have seen the past two - three years. Also similar to what equipment goes for on Lauritz.com or Bukowski's market (website).

I have had e few times myself that what I considered as a bargain proofed to be very hard to sell later on.

 

Definitely, the prices are dropping. Especially here in Denmark (where there's more B&O than anywhere else ).

A few examples of what I have bought this year:

Beosystem 4500 (master, tape, CD, turntable AND Beovox 4500): 2700,-DKKr (But I sold the turntable for 1500,- DKKr )

Beolab 2000:  950,-DKKr.

Beolab 4000:  2500,- DKKr for a set in almost mint condition ( I have to say that the 'usual' price here is 4000,- to 7000,-DKKr ).  Just lucky

That's quiet simple

at the end of the day Bang & Olufsen (never targeted the poor) is considered luxury

As every aspect of every day life people seem be more aware and careful with money (unless of course there's real bargain to get)

Also there seem be less collectors willing to keep up with outdated and moody equipment, or and incapable to pay for repairs

trends are generally changing, and new devices flooding the market are cheaper and cheaper (4 tablets released in one week )

When times get tougher - the flood gates will open and prices are set to fall (bit in keep with the rest of Hi-Fi's with virtually no value at all) even more

bob

Steffen:

Definitely, the prices are dropping. Especially here in Denmark (where there's more B&O than anywhere else ).

A few examples of what I have bought this year:

Beosystem 4500 (master, tape, CD, turntable AND Beovox 4500): 2700,-DKKr (But I sold the turntable for 1500,- DKKr )

Beolab 2000:  950,-DKKr.

Beolab 4000:  2500,- DKKr for a set in almost mint condition ( I have to say that the 'usual' price here is 4000,- to 7000,-DKKr ).  Just lucky

 

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Yes, it's seems that the B&O pre-used devices market is saturated... I am following the market of vintage 60's and 70's B&O equipment since 2 years.

Globally, at the moment there are few seller on ebay which dissolving some very big collections of vintage devices and the prices are already very low

Locally, for example here in central Europe, it is the same. I saw collection of 250 B&O vintage devices in one big depot sold for a peanuts. Year ago it was not possible to get e.g. Beomaster 1000 or Beomaster 900 under 100e and now you can choose the very nice one and it can be gotten for 40 or max. 50€.

Only the very rare and mint condition equipment has a relative good price but also not so good as before one or two years.

And as somebody said, there are no collectors more as earlier (those collections are now at the market -> one reason for saturation) and a new (and cheep) mass production overrun everything.

In the short term I don't think it will be any price correction on the way up ... Therefore -> good times for collectors (if any few are a live outside from beoworld J ) and bad times for a trader …

 

Made the same experience here in Switzerland - prices are falling and falling.... also newer Beolab 9 for 50% from the original price.

From my point of view several indicators are responsible for the second life prices:

- No "must have" in the actual productportfolio (e.g Overture, Beosound 9000 with Beolab 8000, Avant)

- Younger generation is focused on i devices - BeoPlay is the right answer instead of having a house / flat with Masterlink. Poor man's multiroom is possible with several airport express and (cheap) active speakers or old Hifi systems.

- prices of the TV's are still high (not the V1) and a Flat TV from other brands are also looking "not bad" (the remote controls are horrible, but some of the TV's can be controlled by ipad / iphone)

 

Being at the sharp end of all this, I totally agree.

Pre-owned prices have taken a real battering over the last 6-12 Months, with some products becoming just simply not worth buying - even if 12 months ago they were considered 'desirable'

Anything totally non-HD in the TV range has to have another element to it (say the BV5, which does it on PQ and design) or be so cheap you just cannot say no.  Less and less people are 'treating themselves' to the B&O they always wanted when they saw it new and it was out of their reach, so the 'bread and butter' items like BeoSound 3000 / BeoLab 6000 combo's for instance are simply not being bought which results in oversupply and a softening of prices.

Even 720p HD has become undesirable. It's 1080p or nothing if a product needs to retain value and sell quickly.

I saw this coming a few years ago, and now it's here.

Lee

Low prices still means you really can get very high quality B&O at bargain prices. I do not buy B&O with an eye to future price: I buy it to enjoy!

I have really struggled to try and justify getting rid of a BC1 mounted on a tall pole stand so that it can be replaced by a BV10 or 11 on the wall. (I can't!)  The fact of the matter is that the BC1, although 4:3 CRT, is a stunning design, and looks fantastic on the pole stand. Strange thing is that whilst BV1's and BC1's plummet in price, the taller poles have suddenly found a new use for the later flat screens and so are now fetching £500-£1000! (Whether I would really want to buy a fixed  reproduction pole (£975)or a pole adapter (£265) for a BV10  is another matter altogether!)

 

Graham

Yeah, I've seen the falling prices for about a year too, but could this actually be a good thing? Might this open the pre-owned market to folks that would not have experienced B&O before? If that is a positive experience, could that translate into more sales of new product in the near future?

good point, that's me you are talking about, admired B and O since the 70's, now able to indulge myself, got to be good for second hand market, could lead to a new purchase if the finances improve, who knows?

Interesting.

I was on US Ebay over the weekend for the first time in a few weeks and thought, "Hhhmmm, looks like vintage B&O is starting to get more expensive."

Rich:

Interesting.

I was on US Ebay over the weekend for the first time in a few weeks and thought, "Hhhmmm, looks like vintage B&O is starting to get more expensive."

You are right Rich, some sellers have fantasy prices, but if you follow it, they will have to relist, There is one with a pair of Bvox S75s with stand I think he is listing now for the 3rd time, he started at USD 300.00, is now at USD 200.00, but also BGs are there at high prices, but once in a while there is a cheap one. but you are right at the moment the prices overall are up.

But in DK Vintage and semi vintage are going down, and also with cheap prices they dont sell, some of the items there are worth buying even with the high shipping costs, compared to US prices. Not to speak of the item you just cant buy "over here"

 

Quiet right (as always) - good indication is to look at finished listing demands and reality are two totally different animals :)

I've to re-list most of my stuff and starting to be pushed into uncomfortable area of not making any profit at all, regardless on the fact that the prices are well justified and items worth every penny - people first must want to buy and pay for it and that'll be the value of it :)

bob

P.S. I even had stuff given away for free not picked up

Søren Mexico:

You are right Rich, some sellers have fantasy prices, but if you follow it, they will have to relist,

 

B&O vintage are special items, hobby or collectors, these people buy if money is there. When bad times, like now, has been there for some time, people think twice before buying. I have had times where I bought for nearly whatever price if I wanted an item, today I do think a lot about it before buying. Vintage are not things we need, and in ruff times it comes in second  or even last. So at least in Europe its bad time for sellers, and it will be over here shortly.

Sorry for you Bob, best thing is to sit on it, if possible, and wait for better times, which in my opinion wont come soon.

Thank you very much my friend, I will need all luck there is - I'm realistic and as long at least my expenses are covered and bread on table - I'm happy

We'll on the receiving end first, because the amount of units available and everyone seem have the idea sell at the time you try... Price is sadly the only measure for many.. I don't want to sell any (in fact I want to buy more.... can I do it no i can't, not real bob the builder, am i?) 

B

I cannot elaborate on times and goings, because of my grumpy moods are well know.... always expect the worse and be pleasantly surprised

Søren Mexico:

Sorry for you Bob, best thing is to sit on it, if possible, and wait for better times, which in my opinion wont come soon.

 

I think if you ask any of the resellers, they will tell you that the new equipment has value and can be sold. Anything older than a few years has very little value unless it has perceived added value - think Classic Audio and the restored 5000 system. There are the odd exception but these tend to be rare esoteric pieces - I expect that if I sold either my Beogram 3000 Thorens or Beomaster 4401, I would get a good price! 

Absolutely (especially from what I'm hearing about you Sir) 

The point remains, economy is getting worse and people think twice or more what is essential (to live or to enjoy) and unless it's rare the value will depend on demand - simpuls

I also been saying that value of anything not necessarily reflects the reality and B&O will get closer to other vintage equipment for the very same reasons and thanks to new demands for modern and trendy.

R

Peter:

I think if you ask any of the resellers, they will tell you that the new equipment has value and can be sold. Anything older than a few years has very little value unless it has perceived added value - think Classic Audio and the restored 5000 system. There are the odd exception but these tend to be rare esoteric pieces - I expect that if I sold either my Beogram 3000 Thorens or Beomaster 4401, I would get a good price! 

 

I'm watching the german B&O used/pre-owned market on ebay and quoka since appr. 1 - 1,5 years now, starting with buying my lovely Beosystem 4500. I'm not sure, what the proper meaning of "semi vintage" is, especially timewise. I'm looking for stuff mostly from 1985 onwards, being still in the "collector phase", only selling because of space reasons or I get something in addition to a desired item which I was not aiming for.

From March to July you could get real bargains on the market places, for what I could see no reason for. Example: I got a Beolink 7000 including table charger for € 151,00 in really mint condition. Since July the prices have been rising high again. BL 7000 example again: Today most of them in really good condition are being sold for over € 200,00. The best price I saw last week, being sold for € 451,00 (according to the alias I assume a forum member, congrats!).

Reasons for the trend might be found in german economy being very stable over the year (don't be envious, wherever you are in a bad economical market situation, sadly it's already here, but the crucial point will be when people start realizing it).

Also, a lot of people around my age now are able to buy the stuff they have been desiring as a young lad, staring through the B&O dealers window without the home or buying power in that days. A lot of stuff is now available which most likely is more supporting a lower price trend, but at the same time maybe making more people think of realizing the dreams they had, when the older B&O equipment was new, because it's available.

I'm aware that price levels for used/pre-owned B&O in european markets are different, so the recommendation, if you want to sell, sell it now on german market places, should be checked carefully before doing so.

Kind regards,

Rolf

Rolf:

BL 7000 example again: Today most of them in really good condition are being sold for over € 200,00. The best price I saw last week, being sold for € 451,00 (according to the alias I assume a forum member, congrats!).

 

I was very surprised to see these prices, too....

But you can see, there were 3 bidders who bid more than 300 Euros, and 2 around 450 Euros.
I have no idea if that has to do with sw version or the product itself.

Prices vary alot according to the different offerings.

You MUST include:
- hi-res photos
- payment via paypal
- worldwide shipping
- being very precise with your description

And having built up a good reputation (100% positive feedback, more than 100 feedbacks) helps a lot, too.

Ralf

Rolf:

I'm not sure, what the proper meaning of "semi vintage" is, especially timewise.

I think that someone here on Beoworld once mentioned that Vintage is more than 40 years old.
So 'semi-vintage' must be anything newer than that... But - not too new - 'cause then it's not vintage at all...

And - did this make any sense..? 

Steffen:

Rolf:

I'm not sure, what the proper meaning of "semi vintage" is, especially timewise.

I think that someone here on Beoworld once mentioned that Vintage is more than 40 years old.
So 'semi-vintage' must be anything newer than that... But - not too new - 'cause then it's not vintage at all...

And - did this make any sense..? 

LOL!!!!

Yes, that makes sense to me, that´s how I feel: Semi vintage, but it doesn´t correspond to my Vintage age.

Kind regards,

Rolf

kallasr:

You MUST include:

- hi-res photos
- payment via paypal
- worldwide shipping
- being very precise with your description

And having built up a good reputation (100% positive feedback, more than 100 feedbacks) helps a lot, too.

Ralf

You´re absolutely right , I agree 100% on premium pictures. And a real, precise description is really important, and last but not least the positive seller record. In my case, when I bought my BL 7000, the seller did everything right, except the gallery picture, which was the backside of the remote with the B&O data label. I guess, this was the main reason that there were not too many bidders.

Btw: Today my "new" BL 7000 floor stand arrived. Condition better than expected (near mint) and functioning without a problem . The seller considered what you recommended, and therefore got a good price, but it´s worth it.

Kind regards,

Rolf

An I would add, great deal of intuition... also expect at least 1in10 idiots (that's realistic estimate coming from selling on eBay for some 15y)

Rolf:

kallasr:

You MUST include:

- hi-res photos
- payment via paypal
- worldwide shipping
- being very precise with your description

And having built up a good reputation (100% positive feedback, more than 100 feedbacks) helps a lot, too.

Ralf

You´re absolutely right , I agree 100% on premium pictures. And a real, precise description is really important, and last but not least the positive seller record. In my case, when I bought my BL 7000, the seller did everything right, except the gallery picture, which was the backside of the remote with the B&O data label. I guess, this was the main reason that there were not too many bidders.

Btw: Today my "new" BL 7000 floor stand arrived. Condition better than expected (near mint) and functioning without a problem . The seller considered what you recommended, and therefore got a good price, but it´s worth it.

Kind regards,

Rolf

 

Bob:

An I would add, great deal of intuition... also expect at least 1in10 idiots (that's realistic estimate coming from selling on eBay for some 15y)

And I would add to this perspective that at the same time their was a BL 7000 including floorstand for € 449,00 available .

Kind regards,

Rolf