ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Dear Community,
a few words to us...
We are not a B&O dealer nor are we extensive B&O users. We are a specialized on high secure LAN/WLAN.
For our current issue the customers B&O partner has no answer. Allow me to scratched the scenario.
- To avoid high amount of multicast traffic and to secure the networks we have segregated the network into following VLAN:
- xx.xx.100.xx Management Netwoork
- xx.xx.105.xx VoIP
- xx.xx.107.xx KNX
- xx.xx.108.xx .MultiMedia
- xx.xx.109.xx General network traffic including WLAN APs
- xx.xx.110.xx Gateway network
Inter VLAN routing is enabled, the network switch acts as ta gateway for each VLAN.
Out network client operates in total 12 B&O network drives speaker system, 4 B&O absolutely high TV sets. All controlled by the B&O App.
The B&O dealer insists that the App is unable to handle the devices if it is out site the Multimedia VLAN.
It must be in the same subnet as the devices. It does make sense when in a small environment but not in a network as scratched. The dealer suggested that the customers changes WLAN SSID when he wants to control multimedia. A situation which is definitely inacceptable. Is there any path we might go to solve the issue? I almost cannot believe that there is no way to manage B&O devices via routed IP traffic.
The dealer has delivered a multiroom system.
Any idea is more the welcome.
KInd regards
Uwe
I can not answer your question, but maybe you can find some inspiration/some hints in this document:
https://beointegration.com/uploaded/EN-BeoLink-handbook-v1-9.pdf#page52
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Thanks a lot for your reply and documentation recommendation! I'll work myself through the document.
Cheers
Hi Millemissan,
I read through the document. As a workaround BeoLink might be an option. Instead of the native B&O App a KNX App could perhaps replace the native app. At least the user would be able to control his devices out site of the media vlan. Only disadvantage is the extra effort involved. I'll call the dealer tomorrow and listen to what he has to say. Though I would prefer a smart network solution by B&O.
That wouldn't help to solve the issue. The client has a multiroom setup which we have designed to run in its own VLAN but the App doesn't reach the devices because MAC addresses are layer 2 and routing takes place on layer 3. Do you see our dilemma? The WLAN SSID is for all purposes, traffic is controlled by services and routed accordingly. I have the feeling that currently there is no solution unless the system architecture is changed to support such a setup. All network devices in the same subnet might work on small home network but not in a professional network environment. On the other hand our B&O product knowledge is to little and there4 we count on the B&O dealer but in this case he is overstrained.
uschmidt:That wouldn't help to solve the issue. The client has a multiroom setup which we have designed to run in its own VLAN but the App doesn't reach the devices because MAC addresses are layer 2 and routing takes place on layer 3. Do you see our dilemma? The WLAN SSID is for all purposes, traffic is controlled by services and routed accordingly. I have the feeling that currently there is no solution unless the system architecture is changed to support such a setup. All network devices in the same subnet might work on small home network but not in a professional network environment. On the other hand our B&O product knowledge is to little and there4 we count on the B&O dealer but in this case he is overstrained. Cheers Uwe
https://www.draytek.co.uk/support/guides/kb-vigor-8021qvlan?highlight=WyJ2bGFuIiwiJ3ZsYW4nIiwiJ3ZsYW4iXQ==
I would set up your VLANS as per this section,
but the only compromise is to have all the Multimedia untagged to suit the B&O components but you could restrict the access of the untagged network say to one port of the router..
We are using an HPE ARUBA 5400 series switch. We already make use of tagged and untagged VLAN. However - we give it a try with some Layer 2 approach. I'll post any result here. Most likely by the end of the week.
Thanks for the reply!
We already have VLAN, please see my original post. The troublemaker is the multiroom control app. It does not see the B&O devices when in a different VLAN.As I wrote a few minutes ago, I'll give it try with mac mapping on layer 2 level.
Regards
I do commercial networking as a profession, and in reading that integration document indeed your dealer is correct. The App and devices MUST be on the same L2 segment for discovery and multicast. Going further I assume their 'discovery' could be as simple ARP broadcast and doesn't even support IGMP PIM-sparse.
Also not to be argumentative, why do you require a "..We are a specialized on high secure LAN/WLAN.. ". Is there restrictions inter-vlan? Using a firewall/IPS between? VXLAN or SGT for microsegmentation? Creating Vlans for the sake of creating Vlans in my opinion doesn't make sense, especially in a non-commerical setting.
You're going to need to flatten that SSID and B&O 'multimedia' to one same L2 vlan. Yes it's not 'proper' design mixing wired and wireless however not the first time I've seen such compromises. Industrial PLCs often for example don't even support a L3 'gateway'.
Quote below from the Integration Manual:
I do agree with davidr above. I have also found problems with HP and Aruba switched VLAN's when connections get complex.
The B&O app will only find equipment on its own subnet. Check with wireshark for further information. So for now you need to design around this.
I would start with what you are trying to achieve for the client.
Perhaps you have enough suitable equipment to setup zones on subnets. Each zone/room/wing being L3 routed rather than a L2 VLAN. Then with some smarts around the WAP's the iPhone will find the zones WAP and connect allowing the App to find the equipment. You could also wall mount an iPad for fixed rather than roaming zone style communication and a whole lot more.
Further to the above you could even separate out media servers into their own segment and run apps on the TV's with some smart networking to allow access as broadcast traffic is blocked.
Good luck, Beoaus.
beoaus:Each zone/room/wing being L3 routed rather than a L2 VLAN
BS Moment, BS Core, BG 4002, BC 4500, BS1, BL18, BL19, BL8000 + RCV1, A6, M5, M3, A1, P6 (tks Botty), H5, TR1
I believe my reply was lost. You are correct.
Perhaps a zone can contain rooms, like a floor, or wing. Otherwise maybe look at the beoamp 16 and this link may have something in it. https://beointegration.com/uploaded/Idea_Catalogue_v3.2.pdf
Goodluck Beoaus.