ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello Comrades
We had a little party of 120 people or so on Saturday.... End up becoming more of a rave really, laser lights, smoke machines...
Was all going well... then the music stopped and the lights on beolab 9's turned amber!! Didn't know they could even do that. Luckily Dave Pyne, another beoworlder was onsite and said they had over heated!!!!! Yes they were loud but not deafeningly so.. (I live in a Victorian terrace so surprised the neighbours didn't complain.. ). We let them cool for a few minutes.. music started then amber lights again and no sound. Left them off for 5 minutes or so. The back of the speakers was exceptionally hot to touch.
This has never happened before.. They have been playing fine all day Sunday
Has anyone else had this experience and do i need to get them serviced?
Someone was overheard saying... "oh yeah they always have problems with their expensive B&O.. last time the playlist didnt work or something"...... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
David
p.s Thanks Dave for spotting the problem....
Beovision 8-40, Beocentre 6-26, Beocentre 2, Beolab 9's, Beogram 7000, Beogram 9500, Beo 5, Beolit 1000, 800, 700, 600, 400, Beocom 6's, Beotalk 1200
Hmmm, now Beolabs 9. Let's make a list shall we. Beosound 3, Beocom 5, .....
Sorry, can't help with your issue but it's ridiculous having problems with such expensive speakers made by B&O!
Brengen & Ophalen
David Coyne:This has never happened before.. They have been playing fine all day Sunday
120 people (to say nothing of smoke machines) would generate a fair bit of heat AND prevent air circulating as freely as it did on the Sunday - even though I think the temperature was about an extra +5C on the Sunday.
Next time move them to an area where the air movement is better.
BeoNut since '75
Reminds me of the time when I threw a 24 hour Ibiza party in my house and garden for everyone that we'd met in Ibiza. The 1210s were spinning the tunes and we 'cooked' a Technics' amplifier - mind you we did have 8 pairs of speakers connected to the poor thing :) Did very well for 12 or 14 hours non stop before the poor thing steamed. Got it exchanged under warranty ;)
I could never imagine using B&O stuff for a party - they're a bit err... middle aged
Paul W: Reminds me of the time when I threw a 24 hour Ibiza party in my house and garden for everyone that we'd met in Ibiza. The 1210s were spinning the tunes and we 'cooked' a Technics' amplifier - mind you we did have 8 pairs of speakers connected to the poor thing :) Did very well for 12 or 14 hours non stop before the poor thing steamed. Got it exchanged under warranty ;) I could never imagine using B&O stuff for a party - they're a bit err... middle aged
How RUDE!!!!! LOL
Leslie: Hmmm, now Beolabs 9. Let's make a list shall we. Beosound 3, Beocom 5, ..... Sorry, can't help with your issue but it's ridiculous having problems with such expensive speakers made by B&O!
My bl2 did this once, after playing very loud for a couple hours - it was some live Frank Zappa that finally did it in -lots of very low humming. After it cooled off it's been fine ever since (4 - 5 years). I don't see this as a problem, it's a feature. It called "thermal overload protection". Your bl9s should be just fine. They turn themselves off before they are permanently damaged. This is *good* engineering - most audio equipment just dies under these circumstances.
Stan
Paul W: I could never imagine using B&O stuff for a party - they're a bit err... middle aged
ROTFL
Whatever, we've had great parties at the flat in London. Lab 8000s and 2 cranked up and sounding great. Average age of guest: 26. Maybe you're just getting a bit middle-aged!
I have used my recapped Beomaster 4400 and Beovox S75 for a garden party earlier this year without any issues. The music was playing in 7 hours and it was mostly bass heavy techno/house music. A very hot Beomaster but no malfunction
Used a Beomaster 8000 / Beovox MS150.2 pair for my birthday party last year with great success
Vinyl records, cassettes, open reel, valve amplifiers and film photography.
Sounds great!
Maybe next time use some mini fans to move air over the rear of the speakers? Ambient temperature and low air movement will have a huge effect!!
I am surprised B&O haven't adapted a more intelligent heat management system i.e. lower volume and flash light or something to warn of impending cut off...?
Olly
David Coyne: Hello Comrades We had a little party of 120 people or so on Saturday.... End up becoming more of a rave really, laser lights, smoke machines... Was all going well... then the music stopped and the lights on beolab 9's turned amber!! Didn't know they could even do that. Luckily Dave Pyne, another beoworlder was onsite and said they had over heated!!!!! Yes they were loud but not deafeningly so.. (I live in a Victorian terrace so surprised the neighbours didn't complain.. ). We let them cool for a few minutes.. music started then amber lights again and no sound. Left them off for 5 minutes or so. The back of the speakers was exceptionally hot to touch. This has never happened before.. They have been playing fine all day Sunday Has anyone else had this experience and do i need to get them serviced? Someone was overheard saying... "oh yeah they always have problems with their expensive B&O.. last time the playlist didnt work or something"...... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr David p.s Thanks Dave for spotting the problem....
Hi there, your situation is nearly the same as mine, victorian house, lab 9's and orange lights. I find my lab 9's are excellent sound and can be cranked up but they do overheat. I also had some lab 12's in my music room and these did the same thing.
excellent sound the 9's but not cut out for party speakers when you want real long term volume.
PI have my lab 9's connected toy bv7 now and have a separate room for parties in fact I bought some b and w speakers powered by a rotel amp which funny enough uses bang and olufsen amplifiers and technology to protect the amp and they ran on Saturday loud all night and did me proud.i also got sick of the expensive bang and olufsen no working again comments.
i do however have the speakers and amp being run from a beocenter 9300 and the amp hidden.
good luck and if you want a party don't use lab 9's they cannot take the long term high volume, excellent sound and the bass is second to none though. I wonder if anyone has ever seen a orange light on lab 5's :)
Eclipse 65V1-32Beosound M5Essence MK2BLI
Oh and also think of the listening height of the 9's they are so much louder when you are on a sofa as the sound stage is low on these.
good luck
Seanie_230: Oh and also think of the listening height of the 9's they are so much louder when you are on a sofa as the sound stage is low on these. good luck
So true;
column speakers are not the ideal solution for parties unless you 'lift' them in some ways.....i've got 2 JAMO C805 which are excellent speakers, but i don't think they are ideal for parties....for rough use i plan to buy some (used preferably) bookshelf Cervin Vegas with cast frame speakers ; hanged at the four angles of my party room...like a disco.
Anyway; air flow is mandatory...i remember that with friends we cooled down a PHONIC amplifier which was clipping (and HOT !!!)) with dry ice...actually the method worked.
Or maybe you can try to use mini fans to blow air on the heatsink...never saw a Beolab 9 in the flesh...are the heatsink big or small (compared to the speaker itself)?
And, am i wrong or the D Class ICEPower amps are cosnidered cooler than the 'old' AB class amps ,like those used in the BL4000 MKI and on the BL 6000/8000 ?
Mindphaser:And, am i wrong or the D Class ICEPower amps are cosnidered cooler than the 'old' AB class amps ,like those used in the BL4000 MKI and on the BL 6000/8000 ?
Indeed, Class D amps are much cooler. But the Beolab 9 uses class AB for the tweeter and midrange, only the woofer is powered by an ICEpower amp ...
I was at a party last week at a friends, who had 4 lab1s and lab 2s playing in speaker 4 mode, house music on a beosound 5.Never struggled once and that was banging for hours.
Saying that at my dads 50th the lab 5s were knocking the tunes out with ease, as they have plenty of power in reserve, and are less stressed at higher volumes.
Magnus: Indeed, Class D amps are much cooler. But the Beolab 9 uses class AB for the tweeter and midrange, only the woofer is powered by an ICEpower amp ...
True;
but the AB amps for tweeters and midrange are 100W ones versus the 400W Class D of the Woofer....i i thought they could generate less heat for this reason...maybe the heatsink are too small for the power?
butch1: I was at a party last week at a friends, who had 4 lab1s and lab 2s playing in speaker 4 mode, house music on a beosound 5.Never struggled once and that was banging for hours. Saying that at my dads 50th the lab 5s were knocking the tunes out with ease, as they have plenty of power in reserve, and are less stressed at higher volumes.
Do Beolab 1 and Beolab 5 use Class D amps or Class D + Class AB ones ?
Mindphaser:Do Beolab 1 and Beolab 5 use Class D amps or Calss D + Class AB ones ?
The Beolab 5 use 4 class D amplifiers.
I can't believe it, please tell us more about your adjustment, like volume control, bass, treble, loudness on/off.
You say the music was not deafeningly.
If I turn my Beosound 9000 to level 50 in linear position of treble and bass without loudness, it's more than enough for me, the back of the speakers are between cold and slightly warm.
But for a party the music is never loud enough
Ingo
BeoVision Eclipse 55“ wallmounted, BeoRemote One BT; BeoSound 9000(ex-weiss), BeoLab 9; BeoLab 8000 rot; Beosound 1 grün; BeoPlay H6; Beo4
Søren Hammer: Mindphaser:Do Beolab 1 and Beolab 5 use Class D amps or Calss D + Class AB ones ? The Beolab 5 use 4 class D amplifiers.
I was sure that the Beolab 1 was all class D, but according to the Beoworld page, it's the same config as the Beolab 9 – AB for the top and D for the buttom.
Magnus: I was sure that the Beolab 1 was all class D, but according to the Beoworld page, it's the same config as the Beolab 9 – AB for the top and D for the buttom.
Interesting thread about the use of Class D amplifier only for bass driver (Beolab 1 and Beolab 9 config) the Archived Forum.
In my experience, using almost any domestic HIFi system/loudspeaker in a party situation can cause problems re overheating of the amplifier, or worse, if you don't avoid the inevitable desire to crank up the volume to what would otherwise be seen in normal circumstances as excessive volume.
Typically in a room full of people, they not only add heat, but act as very efficient sound deadening/damping material.
As the wine flows, the chatter rises, and inevitably somone turns up the volume so the music can be more easily heard.
And then the conversations rise to shouting above the music, and the volume gets turned up again, and so on.
Pretty soon the amp is at max. volume, and yet it doesn't seem that loud as compared to a normal near empty room situation, because all the reflected sound from room boundaries which usually sums with the direct sound to effect the total Sound pressure level that could be measured in the room, is being absorbed by the very efficient dampening effect of all those clothed bodies in the room.
If the amp starts to clip on music peaks, where the power supply can't supply anymore power and the output waveform clips, or squares off (looking at it on an oscilloscope) it will put out very high distortion levels which in turn will pretty much cook the voice coils of any tweeter - typically the voice coil of a tweeter has wire windings thinner than a human hair - and if the clipping/overload condition continues it will also damage the bass/midrange driver as well.
Usually this takes the form of overheating the voice coil, and the glues/adhesives bonding the coil to the former will soften, allowing the coil to distort and scrape in the magnet gap. Alternatively, very heavy bass can cause the coil/former to jump out of the magnet gap, or hit the back plate, usually distorting the former and ruining it. Either way, your speakers are toast.
Most amplifiers have protection circuits to prevent thermal overload through overdriving, and will protect the output transistors and shut down the amp to save it. Switching it off, letting it cool, and then switching on again usually restores normal operation.
In the case where an amp doesn't have thermal overload protection, over driving the system at parties is a good way to destroy your amp, speakers, or both, and I have seen it happen a few times with friends and parties, such as to be very cautious myself in such situations.
Thankfully, B&O provide better protection than most; the Bass driver is protected from mechanical overload by the ABL circuitry, so destroying the voice coil or former is not likely to happen. Also, the thermal overload protection is linked to the best of my knowledge (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong) to the voice coil temperatures of the drivers, and not just the amplifier output devices, so clipping the amp and damaging the drivers before the amp shuts down through overload/overheating is not likely to happen either.
All in all, after 40 odd years of experience in this hobby, and having witnessed a few party system expensive 'blowups' I can say that B&O have some of the best protection of their products going as regards inadvertent damage through overload, and accordingly are the only speaker brand that I would feel confident buying pre-owned because of this.
Hope this helps
Kind Regards
John...
Long story to make your point, but the BL9 is an active speaker which should have a perfect match between amp and speakers. It’s not a seperate amplifier connected to a pair of speakers where the impedance is too low.
David Coyne: Yes they were loud but not deafeningly so..
Yes they were loud but not deafeningly so..
If it can’t handle a continuous volume of let’s say 75%, I would say something is wrong.
I wonder, did both Beolabs go into protection mode at the same time?
Yes, both turned off at the same time!
DoubleU: If it can’t handle a continuous volume of let’s say 75%, I would say something is wrong. I wonder, did both Beolabs go into protection mode at the same time?
I use professional gear on a regular basis, and very few systems can handle '75%' of their level continuously without causing issues of some sort.
75% of what? Maximum perceived volume? Maximum electrical power? What is the maximum? That 400 watt rating will be under a certain set of measurement conditions which will also include a 'dynamic range' - clipped/compressed music will effectively completely void this measurement's relevance.
Let's say you start off with your system with an average level at around 80dB - and your BeoLab 9 amplifiers are producing peaks of 3-4 watts (this is an estimation). Increase that by 3dB (a relatively small increase) and you're now requiring twice the amount of power (peaks of maybe 8 watts?).
Increase it by another 6dB (now you're maybe at volume 54) and your system is having to produce 4x the amount of electrical power (peaks of 32w). Increase it by another 6dB come midnight and straight away you're way over 100w.
Now your speaker drivers start heating up - their resistance increases and two things happen. 1 - your amplifier's maximum output can suddenly become very restricted, and 2 - the speaker drivers become less efficient and require MORE power to make the SAME amount of sound.
So you add another 3-6dB on top (now you're maybe peaking the system overall at around 105dB at 1 meter for half an hour or so) and requiring peaks of around 300w from the amplifiers - you'll be surprised how in a room full of people, this can very quickly disappear.
The reason B&O builds speakers with 200-300w of power is so they are always within their stride (never working hard) when used in a domestic environment - with a little breathing room on top. As soon as you start to work speakers/amplifiers hard, they behave strangely/incorrectly and things start to overheat and fail.
The BeoLab 9 is a hifi speaker - not a PA speaker. If you want a system to make the walls shake all night long in a room full of noisy, acoustically absorbant people, you need a PA system.
Oke, this makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.
I must say I was allready surprised from the original post from David he was having a party with 120 people, only using a pair of BL9’s. Filling a room with loud music with 120 absorbant bodies, you need a lot more. He should have rented a PA-system in the first place.