I don't undestand B&O. My last experience for sure.

It took years for the beosound moment to work as planned yet some people are still in doubt. When it did, they discontinued it.

This approach reminds me a lot of what General Motors was infamous for and it damned near killed them. The Corvair, nice enough but had design issues. By the time it had the reputation of a rabid dog with fleas, they had perfected it into a nice little sporty car, but too late, by then no one would touch one. The Fiero debuted as an under powered, ill handling, overpriced crap box. The last models with the V6 were very nice cars, but by the time GM got around to fixing all the problems no one would touch one with a 10 foot pole. Over and over again and they never learned to do it right the first time. And they had much deeper pockets than B&O.

 

Maybe it will (similarly) end in a bailout for B&O by the Danish government!

Being the strategically important company that it is, of course.

Sandyb:

Maybe it will (similarly) end in a bailout for B&O by the Danish government!

Being the strategically important company that it is, of course.

Many jobs in Struer have already gone so I can’t see that happening.

What’s the current holding of the big Chinese investor?

It wouldn’t surprise me if this investor also had shares in the new Chinese factories that make products.

I was kidding of course, and invoking the Obama Era bailout of the US auto makers.

But point taken of course

A big question is the future for TV market. The kids sits in front of our two UHD screens with YouTube etc and it’s also easy to stream to them via Apple TV or Chromecast. But what do they do? They’re just watching the tiny screen of the iPhone! I’m not sure they will buy a TV when they move out.

Agree, these habits formed in youth must have some impact on their desire to buy TVs as they grow up. We've had this debate here before, and not everyone agrees, but logic would suggest there should be some impact, I agree.

I don't think this means the big screen market has no future, just a different one, with either a lower lifetime spend on big screens, and/or a less frequent upgrade cycle.

Families will still want a big screen though, so it's as if there will be no demand.

Millemissen:

Thanks, Steve for being a bt more positive thinking about the future Bang & Olufsen than (almost) any other poster in this thread.

Yes, and he also makes a living from the brand. When Commodore went bust and Gateway took over the successful Amiga in the 2000’s I stayed positive about the future as I earned from its success. Doesn’t mean I was right. Just hopeful.

i wasn’t being negative, I was pointing out what might or might not be happening, primarily from a lack of new products, dealers closing and almost zero info from B&O.

Daniel:

A big question is the future for TV market. The kids sits in front of our two UHD screens with YouTube etc and it’s also easy to stream to them via Apple TV or Chromecast. But what do they do? They’re just watching the tiny screen of the iPhone! I’m not sure they will buy a TV when they move out.

Well it might be that the future of TVs as in broadcasting over the air is in danger but if we look at the TV evolution since 2008, everyone seem to go for the bigger size; a 55" TV is now considered just OK. 

TVs are now a synonym for giant screens; of course smart ones. Of course it's nice to watch cartoons or series on an iphone/ipad screen in bed but who wants to watch sports/ concerts/ live events on a 5" screen ?

My 2 cents.

I know. 

Nothing is just negative or just posetive. - most posters are somewhat in between.

But you must admit that there is a certain negative tone in most posts - and I wrote ‘(almost)’.

By the way - John o’ Manchester says in his latest video:

https://youtu.be/VKyJM0rtR1E

that he expects to have new product to talk about/show soon....

.....whatever that means.

But - of course - that probably won’t be that interesting for those, who awaits a resurrection of the ‘glorious times’ of Bang & Olufsen.

I am looking forward to it - and am eager to see, if it will be something, that can fit into my setup, that might improve

or accompany my productmix from several generations.

MM

Nothing is just negative or positive?

It would be hard to describe the last few years of B&O products (Play aside) as anything other than net negative.

But i am here because pessimism, realism and hope are not mutually exclusive (well not entirely).

Even for Play products, i'd argue those outcomes have been mixed - the headphones are not great, and had some quite terrible reviews recently, and the standalone bt speakers cannot be described as anything other than average.

If the recent releases had matched the A9, or the H6, one could be more optimistic about that product segment, but the quality has fallen off even there.

And the stock price, while higher, cannot be described as anything other than an average performer at best against a background of most develop market equity close to all time highs.

Millemissen:

I know. 

Nothing is just negative or just posetive. - most posters are somewhat in between.

But you must admit that there is a certain negative tone in most posts - and I wrote ‘(almost)’.

Well, if B&O hasn't gotten in touch with any of the forum moderators since 15 months, that's something to worry about. Not sure if the company attitude towards their customers leaves any room for optimism.

Sandyb:

And the stock price, while higher, cannot be described as anything other than an average performer at best against a background of most develop market equity close to all time highs.

That usually means high sales figures or high profit. no ? which is very strange. The stock price tripled  over the last 5 years although I don't see anything interesting released in the last 2 years.

koning:

No new products this year??

 unbelievable!

 

Bang & Olufsen have a product launch at the IFA trade show (at the end of august).

But I don't know what they show this time. Anyone?

  /Lars

european stocks were at their post crisis lows 5 years ago, as the EZ debt crisis was at its crescendo.

European markets have recovered well since then, as growth has returned to the European economy.

The majority of europena stocks will have gone up a lot since that starting point, with notable exceptions like Deutsche Bank which has deep problems.

And compared to global brand tech stocks, B&O stock has not done especially well.

Transitioning their profit composition to Play has been a short term positive, but thats against a challenged longer term background.

Probably another headphone or Blutooth speaker I guess... but who knows... Geoff has written a bunch of documents regarding reproduction of digital audio.. maybe something magic will appear...

Karel.

 

Lars Ladingkaer:

koning:

No new products this year??

 unbelievable!

 

Bang & Olufsen have a product launch at the IFA trade show (at the end of august).

But I don't know what they show this time. Anyone?

  /Lars

 

Lars Ladingkaer:

Bang & Olufsen have a product launch at the IFA trade show (at the end of august).

But I don't know what they show this time. Anyone?

  /Lars

Yes. Both B&O and BeoPlay: https://www.virtualmarket.ifa-berlin.de/en/Bang-Olufsen-a-s,c394051

moxxey:

Yes. Both B&O and BeoPlay: https://www.virtualmarket.ifa-berlin.de/en/Bang-Olufsen-a-s,c394051

The products listed on that seems to be last years news - must be something else.

MM

IA64:

Well, if B&O hasn't gotten in touch with any of the forum moderators since 15 months, that's something to worry about. Not sure if the company attitude towards their customers leaves any room for optimism.

And why should they get in touch with someone from this forum - usually they want to control when the news are out themselves.

Spreading the word to forum members would be the same as to make it public too early.

Even if they have contact to someone before an official launch, these persons are not allowed to tell anything anyway.

MM

Millemissen:

moxxey:

Yes. Both B&O and BeoPlay: https://www.virtualmarket.ifa-berlin.de/en/Bang-Olufsen-a-s,c394051

The products listed on that seems to be last years news - must be something else.

I think the point is/was that they are listed as an exhibitor for 2018....not the products. That's a legacy thing from their profile which probably was added as part of last years show.

B&O is listed for 2018, which means they have something to show/announce.

B&O is listed for 2018, which means they have something to show/announce.

A whole new range of exciting, bold colors no doubt.

Jeff:

B&O is listed for 2018, which means they have something to show/announce.

A whole new range of exciting, bold colors no doubt.

To be fair, A/W18 is coming, so I'd expect them September 

Sandyb:

I was kidding of course, and invoking the Obama Era bailout of the US auto makers.

But point taken of course

moxxey:

Jeff:

B&O is listed for 2018, which means they have something to show/announce.

A whole new range of exciting, bold colors no doubt.

To be fair, A/W18 is coming, so I'd expect them September 

 

 

To be fair you say?

no more dark colours next season then..

 

 

 

This thread has got outta hand.

Perhaps B&O should simply offer their Android TV customers an upgrade to Android version 7.0+. Much the same as Sony has done with their Bravia model. Effectively delivering on the promise they made to customers in product  through marketing material and selling process and so televisions remain effective, reliable and usable for years to come.

I for one hope they do so.

Beoaus.

beoaus:

This thread has got outta hand

This discussion is a mere 2 pages long and addresses the topic: "I don't undestand B&O"

How is that a thread which has got out of hand? Perplexing.

Jeff:

A whole new range of exciting, bold colors no doubt.

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

I’m thinking more somber tones this summer

Iv been a B&O fanatic since I was 15 years old. Its a rather young age to get bitten by the B&O bug, and this was on a set of Beovox 2400 speakers, hooked up to a Beomaster 1600. The year was 1996, so this was already vintage equipment then. This played music off a SONY disc-man, connected to a simple headphone jack-DIN cable, and I was living in Zimbabwe.

I know live in Los Angeles, and that music I played over that system all those years ago changed my life. So I have a special place in my heart for B&O.

In my office at work, I have a Beomaster 8000, hooked up to Beovox S45-2s. This is played off my computer running the latest Mac OSX connected with a simple earphone jack.

 

I recently decided to start moving towards more modern versions of B&O products, and it has just depressed me. I have a Beoplay A9, which is beautiful enough, but the sound quality is ordinary, but, to be fair, it is just a "boombox" after all. Its a MKI A9, and of course the latest B&O app does NOT support playing it!!!

I then got myself a pair of Beolab 9s. Another total disappointment. While the speakers are great, connectivity to a non-B&O product has been a nightmare, and 4 weeks later, I still havent been able to enjoy my speakers. From loud buzzing, to simply being unable to connect them in simple stereo (due to running them in LINE mode) is just so STUPID.

I mean, I have a total of 6 beovox speakers, a pair of M-75, a set of S-75 and a pair of S-45s that run JUST FINE from anything from my Playstation 4, to an Onkyo receiver, to my computer. ZERO problems.

I get a modern speaker, a Beolab 9, and cant even get them to work properly!

The sound quality on the Beomaster 8000 tthrough the Beovox S-45 is still audiophile quality in my estimation, and I thought I could significantly upgrade by more modern B&O speakers, but the connectivity issue has left me actually depressed based on how disappointing its been. 

I hope B&O simplify their products, and refocus on making them sound and look (picture) good, rather than chasing all this "lifestyle technology" that they clearly are clueless about. And whats all this Beoplay stuff?

Im happy I have the vintage B&O equipment, this modern crap really hasnt done it for me. Im sure the Beolab 50, 90 , 5  and 9 are amazing, but, I dare say, ill stick to the vintage stuff just so it actually connects and works without leaving me up Schitt's creek without a paddle.

Still waiting on cables from overseas to even see if I can get rid of the buzzing on the Beolab 9s. Its just a joke. 

Hi Howzit, 

Please drop me a line via my link at the foot of the page, I can get your Beolab 9 speakers sounding great without the buzzing issues. Hopefully this will help to restore your confidence in newer B&O products.

Kind regards Steve.

moxxey:

beoaus:

This thread has got outta hand

This discussion is a mere 2 pages long and addresses the topic: "I don't undestand B&O"

How is that a thread which has got out of hand? Perplexing.

The current confusion over which products to buy have helped me;

Instead of a new Beovision I've spent the thousands of pounds on new road bikes for myself and my wife and a new Mtb for myself. Much healthier. 

 

 

Howzit:

Iv been a B&O fanatic since I was 15 years old. Its a rather young age to get bitten by the B&O bug, and this was on a set of Beovox 2400 speakers, hooked up to a Beomaster 1600. The year was 1996, so this was already vintage equipment then. This played music off a SONY disc-man, connected to a simple headphone jack-DIN cable, and I was living in Zimbabwe.

I know live in Los Angeles, and that music I played over that system all those years ago changed my life. So I have a special place in my heart for B&O.

In my office at work, I have a Beomaster 8000, hooked up to Beovox S45-2s. This is played off my computer running the latest Mac OSX connected with a simple earphone jack.

 

I recently decided to start moving towards more modern versions of B&O products, and it has just depressed me. I have a Beoplay A9, which is beautiful enough, but the sound quality is ordinary, but, to be fair, it is just a "boombox" after all. Its a MKI A9, and of course the latest B&O app does NOT support playing it!!!

I then got myself a pair of Beolab 9s. Another total disappointment. While the speakers are great, connectivity to a non-B&O product has been a nightmare, and 4 weeks later, I still havent been able to enjoy my speakers. From loud buzzing, to simply being unable to connect them in simple stereo (due to running them in LINE mode) is just so STUPID.

I mean, I have a total of 6 beovox speakers, a pair of M-75, a set of S-75 and a pair of S-45s that run JUST FINE from anything from my Playstation 4, to an Onkyo receiver, to my computer. ZERO problems.

I get a modern speaker, a Beolab 9, and cant even get them to work properly!

The sound quality on the Beomaster 8000 tthrough the Beovox S-45 is still audiophile quality in my estimation, and I thought I could significantly upgrade by more modern B&O speakers, but the connectivity issue has left me actually depressed based on how disappointing its been. 

I hope B&O simplify their products, and refocus on making them sound and look (picture) good, rather than chasing all this "lifestyle technology" that they clearly are clueless about. And whats all this Beoplay stuff?

Im happy I have the vintage B&O equipment, this modern crap really hasnt done it for me. Im sure the Beolab 50, 90 , 5  and 9 are amazing, but, I dare say, ill stick to the vintage stuff just so it actually connects and works without leaving me up Schitt's creek without a paddle.

Still waiting on cables from overseas to even see if I can get rid of the buzzing on the Beolab 9s. Its just a joke. 

Modern I guess is a definition that can adjust to the single person. Beolab 9 is not for me a modern speaker. The beolab 20 as they sell now, is easy as it should be to connect other systems. B&O have moved on in the speaker program. Bashing Beolab 9 does not really make sense. And A9 MKI is also quit old in the tech world.

Howzit:

I recently decided to start moving towards more modern versions of B&O products, and it has just depressed me. I have a Beoplay A9, which is beautiful enough, but the sound quality is ordinary, but, to be fair, it is just a "boombox" after all. Its a MKI A9, and of course the latest B&O app does NOT support playing it!!!

Well, this is interesting. I've owned most B&O speakers and BeoPlay devices and, on balance, think the A9 is up there as the best (in terms of performance, power and price). Others agree. I've had people visit my apartment and hear the A9 and decide they want one (and they don't really say that about any other B&O/Play speaker apart from the BL3s due to their compact size).

The A9 is fantastic. And the MK1 can be controlled through a Beo4 remote, so swings and roundabouts with control (as the MK2 can't be controlled via a standard remote).

moxxey:

Well, this is interesting. I've owned most B&O speakers and BeoPlay devices and, on balance, think the A9 is up there as the best (in terms of performance, power and price). Others agree. I've had people visit my apartment and hear the A9 and decide they want one (and they don't really say that about any other B&O/Play speaker apart from the BL3s due to their compact size).

The A9 is fantastic. And the MK1 can be controlled through a Beo4 remote, so swings and roundabouts with control (as the MK2 can't be controlled via a standard remote).

Ditto, 2 fold lol

The A9 is my best b&o. I think it sounds marvellous.

Ah, but let's be truthful...who cares if many are dissatisfied and the products have issues, B&O's numbers are up, yay!

B&O could well wind up just being Play type products, that might be a long term success, but it would be a sad end for a company with their history.

Aussie Michael:

moxxey:

Well, this is interesting. I've owned most B&O speakers and BeoPlay devices and, on balance, think the A9 is up there as the best (in terms of performance, power and price). Others agree. I've had people visit my apartment and hear the A9 and decide they want one (and they don't really say that about any other B&O/Play speaker apart from the BL3s due to their compact size).

The A9 is fantastic. And the MK1 can be controlled through a Beo4 remote, so swings and roundabouts with control (as the MK2 can't be controlled via a standard remote)

Ditto, 2 fold lol

The A9 is my best b&o. I think it sounds marvellous.

A9 was a fantastic innovation and has yet to be topped. One of the many Play strategies was to buy then dress it up to personalise. A  friend has a white on white with wall bracket in his mid century living room. It would also be cool on an easel type floor bracket or even a smaller version. Put a core in it. Surely as desirable as putting molecular chain of hexagons on a wall. 

I agree, the A9 is the ONLY Play product, to me, which embodies all of the design language and innovative thinking of the old B&O. It's stunning looking, sounds great, and is a very modern take on having an audio system for a room where you don't want traditional speakers. Which probably means they'll discontinue it soon.

I wanted to clarify something, I’m certainly NOT bashing the Beolab 9! :) Nor the A9.

I meant that the A9 is not an audiophile system to be compared to say, the beolab 90 or BL50. The A9 is a great piece, I LOVE it. It is a more domestic piece, but one that actually shines in that realm. I also LOVE the Beolab 9. (Hence being so deflated trying to get to enjoy it!)

My issue with this ‘modern’ B&O stuff is its CONNECTIVITY. The bottom line is that were I connecting it to some other B&O ‘hub’, like a new B&O tv, or the new $1,000 beosound core, it would plug in and I could start enjoying it right away. But for those wanting slightly more felxebility, B&O has made it very difficult. Or should I say, they have been meandering around settling on a connectivity system for this modern era, but abandon setups as they go along, leaving people confused. On the smart phone side of things, the latest B&O app does not function with the A9 MKI. It works to get it connected to the WiFi system, but after that, the controls don’t work for playing music etc. This is case in point in that the MKII is Bluetooth, while the MKI is not, and even the Beoplay App won’t even do anything without Bluetooth being enabled, which the A9MKI doesn’t have.

I was at a B&O store, (great store and people) and it took them 15 minutes (not a figure of speech) faffing around trying to get one of the systems I wanted to hear going... it wouldn’t connect via Bluetooth. Then, it would connect to the wrong speakers, then it would drop out, then the app would freeze. Finally when the unit I wanted to listen to turned on, the volume almost permanently damaged our ears because it was extremely loud because in trying to get it to work, the person had fiddled with the volume on not hearing it work. Of course they felt really embarrassed and frustrated, but I knew this is typical of all this stuff, I work with it everyday.

I tried to sample some headphones, and it was the same thing. This is not a symptom specific to B&O, I’m just saying it’s all just silly. It’s suppose to be “smart” technology, but 40 year old equipment simply turns on, works, and is connected to any of my latest smart and computerized systems.

I guess the context and underscore for me is that my B&O equipment of almost 40 years, some of it almost 45 years, has ZERO issues integrating into modern attachments and systems such as computers, WiFi, Bluetooth etc. No buzzing or humming no matter what cables you use. And they still sound better than most stuff you can buy off the shelf at an electronic store.

i was just taken back by how much work I had to do, to get equipment a quarter of the age of my old stuff to actually connect and get going.

Being high end equipment, if they want to have a smart ecosystem, they need to approach it like they did in their golden era, meaning they have to actually be leaders, innovators and inventors, rather than just slapping on smart tech used by everyone. THEY need to be the Apple or Samsung of hifi connectivity.

I know part of this rant is coming from frustration. So you will forgive me.

(And thanks Steve, Iv been meaning to reach out to you, I’ll drop you a msg.)

To be honest Howzit, B&O has long had a reputation for not playing well with others, due to their use of DIN connectors, the low output of their phono cartridges being much lower than the gain on most phono preamps, etc. What's different now is that B&O products by and large don't play well with themselves either. See said issues with the BeoApp, NL and such, yada yada. Their rollout of wireless products has been dreadful, unreliable and balky wifi cards, and who in the world heard, in the modern world, of products with as much of a price premium/alleged high end pretensions as B&O claims that came out with only 2.4 GHZ wifi and not 5 GHZ as well.

Your point is well taken, not to mention the nonstandard 455KHz IR carrier frequency.  

BUT it seems to me that forcing 2.4GHz WiFi is a wise choice: The usable range from the WiFi access point becomes "guaranteed not to be worse than any other device", e.g. the iOS iDevice with which the consumer might configure it.  Sure, back-off & re-try vs. buffering is an issue especially when there are (still!) piggy 802.11b devices in use.  But for example Sonos made the same choice: Their products on mesh used 2.4GHz and when they switched to WiFi after it became more reliable, they remained on 2.4GHz.  Then they used a (proprietary) 5GHz connection solely for adjunct speakers in the same zone, i.e. the subwoofer and the Play:1 when used as surround speakers.  This gave them the best range for the zone and pushed their own "extra" wireless transmissions into a frequency where they wouldn't reduce bandwidth of the 2.4 GHz device(s).

Interesting history about the Sonos, I've not looked at them closely. Thanks for the info, that's in quite informative!

The problem with limiting your product to 2.4 GHZ, and especially the balky single freq cards they've used, is that if you are in a 2.4 GHZ environment with a crowded spectrum, say in a dense urban area or an apartment, you don't have a choice to move to 5 GHZ to try and find a less crowded part of the spectrum. As for balky, I live in the middle of a 3 acre property, I can't even see my neighbor's wifi on my PC's wifi list, but I've still had issues with my Playmaker. For a while it was reasonably stable but not completely so, the microwave would drop it off air and it would at times for no apparent reason lose connection. I've replaced it with an Auralic Aries Mini, which has both bands, and it's rock stable on either band. I still think it's inexcusable on products as pricey as B&O to limit the user to only the 2.4 band. In addition to the Playmaker getting more buggy as time went on, I got tired of it being blown off the air every time I used the microwave! And when it got blown off air it wasn't always easy to get it to reacquire.

My Panasonic TV, 6 years old, offers 2.4 and 5 GHZ, my Samsung TV bought 5 years ago, the same, and my Apple TV 4, the same, ditto for my Auralic and my Oppo Blu Ray player. None of these are exactly premium priced products in the league of B&O, yet they have dual band capability. I can reach all over my fairly large house with 5 GHZ even though it's shorter range than 2.4. I just don't see the reason for skimping on wifi. The reason my Beolit 15 is Blue Tooth is the poor performance of the Beolit 12 wifi, at least the BT works on my BL15.

The long term performance of my PlayMaker was the start of my true disillusionment with B&O. I paid as much for it as for my Auralic which just works. As does my first generation Beosound 9000 and late 90s Beolab 8000s.