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So in my living room I have a nice classic stereo setup as in Squeezebox, D/A converter, high end amp and two big passive speakers (sorry, not B&O) and I am considering a music solution for the bed room. As I try to keep things as simple as possible for the bed room I am considering a BEOPLAY A9 MKII, however I wonder about stereo with such a setup - is there such a thing as to simple a setup?
The question is really both a BEOPLAY A9 MKII question, but also a general one when looking at all the active one speaker setups that are being bought these days. It sort of has me wondering - all the work I did with how my speakers was placed in my living room with my, now old school, setup is that just not needed anymore? Or is it that the convenience of just the one speaker has won over the loss in audio quality? Or is the truth somewhere in between?
Bottom line. Being used to listening to a good classic stereo setup will the A9 work for me, or am I serviced just as well by just cranking up the volume in the living room when locating my self in the bed room?
Also. A bit off topic for this thread, but I plan to have my Logitech Music Server act as a DLNA server to feed the A9. If there is good or bad things about this do say so.
Considering how popular stereo headphones are, I’d say stereo sound as a format is definitely very much still a thing. Also, I do believe there is a strong interest in stereo sound in the automobile environment.
That said, it does seam like dedicated home stereo setups have seen notable reductions in interest, with the number of available systems that offer a true stereo sound experience dwindling to meet the decreasing demand. It would appear that an increasing number of people find it quite acceptable to passively listen to music in the background in a home setting, preferring small size and convenience over stereophonic high fidelity.
However, there will always be a number of audiophiles that strongly prefer a true stereo sound experience in the home setting. That said, I don’t believe this is what will keep the stereo sound format mainstream. Rather, at least in my opinion, the format will stay mainstream due to the popularity of the format with headphones and in the automobile environment.
Dom
2x BeoSystem 3, BeoSystem 5000, BeoSystem 6500, 2x BeoMaster 7000, 2 pair of BeoLab Penta mk2, AV 7000, Beolab 4000, BeoSound 4000, Playmaker, BeoLab 2500, S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-50, C-75, 3x CX-100, 3x MCL2 link rooms, 3x Beolab 2000, M3, P2, Earset, A8 earphones, A3, 2x 4001 relay, H3, H3 ANC, H6, 2014 Audi S5 with B&O sound, and ambio
BlindZenDriver: So in my living room I have a nice classic stereo setup as in Squeezebox, D/A converter, high end amp and two big passive speakers (sorry, not B&O) and I am considering a music solution for the bed room. As I try to keep things as simple as possible for the bed room I am considering a BEOPLAY A9 MKII, however I wonder about stereo with such a setup - is there such a thing as to simple a setup? The question is really both a BEOPLAY A9 MKII question, but also a general one when looking at all the active one speaker setups that are being bought these days. It sort of has me wondering - all the work I did with how my speakers was placed in my living room with my, now old school, setup is that just not needed anymore? Or is it that the convenience of just the one speaker has won over the loss in audio quality? Or is the truth somewhere in between? Bottom line. Being used to listening to a good classic stereo setup will the A9 work for me, or am I serviced just as well by just cranking up the volume in the living room when locating my self in the bed room? Also. A bit off topic for this thread, but I plan to have my Logitech Music Server act as a DLNA server to feed the A9. If there is good or bad things about this do say so.
This sounds familiar, as I too am very attached and habituated to stereo sound for music listening - even to the extent that in my main (lounge) 5.1 setup, I only really listen to music using stereo 2.0. (if I engage the other speakers in the 5.1 setup, it doesn't sound right to me)
So as very much a stereo fan, I do have an A9 MKII in my bedroom, which is 5m by 5m.
The A9 is probably (until the Eclipse release recently), one of the best of these one unit speakers / systems ever made. I have no regrets really with it.
However, while I am happy with it as an overkill solution for a modest sized room, and use it more for radio, podcasts (i.e. talk-y stuff), for music it does leave me feeling slightly underwhelmed at times. The separation just isn't there, for all its musical merits. Compared to the A6 for example, it has lovely depth and balance, and its plenty powerful enough. But I do miss the wider soundstage that a pair of speakers provides.
In the end bedroom listening may always be a compromise vs a lounge setup, being usually smaller, harder to place left right speakers etc.
I'm ok with the compromise, in part as I use it 80% of the time for non-music, in part because sorting out a neat alternative (wall mounting a pair of BL3's) is too much hassle right now.
Not sure if that helps - but sounds like we come from a similar place, preference wise.
Made a longer post....that vanished as I pushed POST
So here in short are my thoughts.
A proper stereo setup/a proper stereo listening experience is very much dependent on where you sit in the room.
The place in front and between the two speakers is called the ‘money seat’, the ‘sweet spot’....which is where you can benefit from the stereo perspective of/the ‘stage’ in the recording.
If you want and need that kind of experience in the bedroom, you must go for an old school stereo setup.
However, it will sound different from the one in yor main room, because the room is another - and as you know, will need some time to find the right place forcthe speakers etc.
The A9 is in fact a stereo setup, but due to the construction you won’t get the wide stereo seperation, that you may be used to in the main room.
The A9 is tuned to have a a uniform tonal balance in the whole room (which a stereo setup can’t have) - practically no matter where you (as the listener/s) are placed in the room.
(This also makes it easier to place the unit in the room)
Finding out which preferences you have for listening there is priority.
What will work for you in the bedroom, only a test can tell.
But beware, the A9 is very powerfull - worth considering, if the bedroom is rather smallish.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
BlindZenDriver: Also. A bit off topic for this thread, but I plan to have my Logitech Music Server act as a DLNA server to feed the A9. If there is good or bad things about this do say so.
In Bang & Olufsen app/Settings/Music/DLNA you can choose your server.
I don’t use the Logitech Server, but I might as well - no problems there.
@BlindZenDriver
To your question in the title of the thread: ‘Is stereo still a thing’.
Imo certainly yes....done the right way.
But not in any case!
I enjoy music from a single point speaker as well as music sitting in the 2 channel sweet spot with my main setup.
By the way, I enjoy music in multi channel there too.
Many thanks to all of you for the good info. I do now feel a lot more confident about putting up just one unit to provide music in my bedroom - and also that it working with my current Logitech Media Server should not be a problem.
Along with reading your answers here I have also been looking at what B&O writes in their support section, looking especially at the manual and while clear enough it also leaves me with some questions and also I discovered there is a MKIII of the A9. I will research a bit more and I suspect I will have some questions on how one sets up the A9 like fx. can one do so without using an app - is there for instance an build-in web server one can access using WIFI or through an Ethernet cable.
Also I would like to find an review that compares the MKIII with the MKII, the new version has a different speaker arrangement and also sees a big jump in power. It also comes with a price bump or maybe it is just that right now one can buy the last of the MKII's at a discount. Priority one for me is getting the best solution as who remembers a price saving anyway over the long run.
http://bogo.custhelp.com/app/answers/answer_view/a_id/7207
But why not use the app - you will probably need that anyway e.g. for radio/TuneIn.....or?
Note: if you really only want to use DLNA sourced material (no B&O mulitroom etc), you could opt for the A9 first gen.
Preowned they go for rather little money, since they are limited (no ChromeCast/AirPlay 2...) - the sound is just as good as from the 2nd gen.
Millemissen: http://bogo.custhelp.com/app/answers/answer_view/a_id/7207 But why not use the app - you will probably need that anyway e.g. for radio/TuneIn.....or? Note: if you really only want to use DLNA sourced material (no B&O mulitroom etc), you could opt for the A9 first gen. Preowned they go for rather little money, since they are limited (no ChromeCast/AirPlay 2...) - the sound is just as good as from the 2nd gen. MM
Thank you. Interesting tip on the MkI and something I will look into.
I imagine the App will be my main way of controlling the A9, either that or possibly using a Logitech Duet controller(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt9N6NmsHUs) provided I can control the A9 through DLNA using the Logitech Media Server that is my music source. In my living room this is how I feed the stereo, as I have a Logitech box that is connected to my D/A-converter...
I think it is fine there is an app, however I do like that one can also talk directly to the A9 without having to use special software which is dependent on third parties(Apple/Google). To me that help ensuring longevity of a product.
Just for your info - it seems that you are getting things mixed up a bit.
Using the Logitech Media Server (LSM) is one thing - for this you would need to connect the output of the Logitech box (from the YouTubed product).
I suppose this is how you do it now in your main setup.
If this would be what you want for the A9, you will need no app, basicly no nothing.
Just connect the R/L output of the Logitech box to the L/R input on the A9.
Though this would work, I would not recommend it. You will most likely have to deal with 2 x volume control, which can be confusing.
Soundwise the best thing to do, would be to set the Logi-box to fixed line-output and control the volume solely on the A9.
Not very handy, I guess......when you do everything else on the Logitec controller.
Note: The A9 1 gen can be ir-controlled by a Beo4 - the 2nd and 3rd can not.
The other way to use the LMS, is to use the DLNA server that the LMS also provides (this was your initial question).
Using a DLNA server to get to your music with the A9 means using some kind of DLNA ‘playback software’ (in a controlling device).
This kind of software is essentially built-in to the Bang & Olufsen (iOS or Android) app. Hence my question, why not use the app?
Theoretically you could use any DLNA controller software/application/app for this.....but not the handy Logitech Remote (from the video)!!!
Sorry - maybe this is a bit confusing at first - but you will have to know these differences, in order to avoid false expectations.
MM.
Millemissen: Just for your info - it seems that you are getting things mixed up a bit. Using the Logitech Media Server (LSM) is one thing - for this you would need to connect the output of the Logitech box (from the YouTubed product). I suppose this is how you do it now in your main setup. If this would be what you want for the A9, you will need no app, basicly no nothing. Just connect the R/L output of the Logitech box to the L/R input on the A9. Though this would work, I would not recommend it. You will most likely have to deal with 2 x volume control, which can be confusing. Soundwise the best thing to do, would be to set the Logi-box to fixed line-output and control the volume solely on the A9. Not very handy, I guess......when you do everything else on the Logitec controller. Note: The A9 1 gen can be ir-controlled by a Beo4 - the 2nd and 3rd can not. The other way to use the LMS, is to use the DLNA server that the LMS also provides (this was your initial question). Using a DLNA server to get to your music with the A9 means using some kind of DLNA ‘playback software’ (in a controlling device). This kind of software is essentially built-in to the Bang & Olufsen (iOS or Android) app. Hence my question, why not use the app? Theoretically you could use any DLNA controller software/application/app for this.....but not the handy Logitech Remote (from the video)!!! Sorry - maybe this is a bit confusing at first - but you will have to know these differences, in order to avoid false expectations. MM.
Thank you very much for the added info.It is most helpful as I am planning my adventure into the B&O, a place I was last back when they made CRT TV's so it has been while.
I must admit to having no experience with DLNA and I guess that my hope of controlling what the A9 is playing from the server side may be impossible, that was my though regarding perhaps being able to control the music using my Logitech controller as I really like its interface with physical buttons and a screen(especially the scroll wheel is handy and it is clever - wakes up when you pick it up).
No question though that a "solution" where two volume controls are needed is not really a solution at all, so while a Squeezebox->A9 could work I can not imagine doing that. It would also mean having more gear in the bedroom than just the A9, so that would sort ruin the whole idea. If one were to go that way then the Mk3 is to have an optical in, meaning one could at least electrically isolate the A9 from the more basic Squeezebox.
Comparing the specs of the M2 with the Mk3 does have me scratching my head, there is a massive bump in power going to the latest generation(specs copied from the B&O website).
Beoplay A9 3rd generation 1 x 400 watt class D for bass 2 x 200 watt class D for midrange 2 x 200 watt class D for fullrange 2 x 150 watt class D for treble
I mean the 480 watt of the 2nd gen is almost embarrassing compared to the 1,500 watt of the new one - class D makes for crazy numbers.
if you're going to get an A9, get the Mk3 when it comes out. You may get in to streaming in the future and you'll be sorry it's not the latest.
BlindZenDriver: Comparing the specs of the M2 with the Mk3 does have me scratching my head, there is a massive bump in power going to the latest generation(specs copied from the B&O website). Beoplay A9 2nd generation 1 x 160 watt class D for bass 2 x 80 watt class D for midrange 2 x 80 watt class D for treble Beoplay A9 3rd generation 1 x 400 watt class D for bass 2 x 200 watt class D for midrange 2 x 200 watt class D for fullrange 2 x 150 watt class D for treble I mean the 480 watt of the 2nd gen is almost embarrassing compared to the 1,500 watt of the new one - class D makes for crazy numbers.
Don’t worry too much about these specs - they tell you something about the amp modules used in the new gen.
They don’t necessarily tell you something about how loud it can play.
But....any A9 can play loud - louder than most people want it, especially in a bedroom.
Not having heard the new version yet, I’d suppose that this (with the additional drivers on the back) will have an even more uniform tonal balance in the room - especially in a bigger room.
You can only find out about these things listening to it and to the earlier versions.....if you can make that possible.
If BlindZenDriver would want to stick with integrating the Squeezebox Duet solution, he already is into streaming - or rather he could be.
The Squeezebox has support for Spotify and even Deezer - it was/still is a highly flexible solution.
In this case any of the A9’s would do.
But I agree - the 2nd and 3rd gen does streaming natively.
Personally I’d prefer the 2nd gen....since they have ditched Spotify Connect support on the new one.
But that is just me 😏
Aussie Michael: if you're going to get an A9, get the Mk3 when it comes out. You may get in to streaming in the future and you'll be sorry it's not the latest.
Ooops - that comment above was meant for Aussie Michael....forgot the quote.
Millemissen: But....any A9 can play loud - louder than most people want it, especially in a bedroom.
This is very true and something I was trying to say previously about not being encouraged solely on watts/power.
I'm more than happy with my A9. I'd even go as far as it's possibly one of the best B&O purchases in the last 10 years, in terms of power, design, sound quality and performance. A6 was terrible in comparison and sold.
If I was going to get an A9, I'd take advantage of some of the discounted MKII's dealers are selling off on the market right now.
Hey All,... I figured I'd contribute to this one since it was incidentally on my mind recently.
Does anyone remember when Apple (the real Apple:EMI) released all the mono versions of Beatles Mono tracks in back in 2014? That really got the debate going, and it honestly awoke questions within me that I never in my life entertained.
I feel like stereo definitely has its place and will always be relevant. However, the second part is how well the source was mixed. If you recall the stereo versions of some Beatles tracks that were originally in mono, they were remixed into stereo in a horrible way (from an audiophile's POV). I will admit, the strong separation led to quite a successful novelty that still give smiles to anyone that listens.
But if you think about it, listening to a source with strong separation through headphones, doesn't quite give you the best true experience. Just listen to any of the tracks that were remixed in to stereo (Girl 2009 remaster is a good one). The separation isn't quite 100%, but pretty close. It the band was playing right in front of you, John and George weren't exactly playing right up your left year, but even then, your right ear would pick up more than what the stereo release would indicate. This is a problem for stereo-in-headphones. But like I said, it's still an enjoyable gimmick that won't go away anytime soon.
I feel like the best mixes tend to be recordings of orchestras, but even then, the level of separation needs to be careful. For a front row seat, i like the 1st violin to be right at 10 degrees from center, and violins at maybe 15 degrees further, with some further out to even 80 degrees. Trumpets and trombones closer to 5 degrees off center. Of course, the further your virtual seats might be, everything might be closer to center (mono)
5.1 is a totally different ballgame, but it should still follow basic rules about how much separation is given during the final mixing.
My total unprofessional opinion is to have stereo, but maybe not have the L and R speakers quite so far apart,... so the A9 might be the best solution to achieve this. with headphones, you're quite restricted. Your source might have decided to place drums 100% in your left ear, which would never happen in real life.
An interesting experiment would be to butt up all your L and R speakers right next to each other and maybe just angle the out so slightly.
I'll have to wait for someone else to try this,... I have too many wires to deal with to give this one a go!
Anyway, hope I've added somewhat... I hate staying quite for this long.
moxxey: Millemissen: But....any A9 can play loud - louder than most people want it, especially in a bedroom. This is very true and something I was trying to say previously about not being encouraged solely on watts/power. I'm more than happy with my A9. I'd even go as far as it's possibly one of the best B&O purchases in the last 10 years, in terms of power, design, sound quality and performance. A6 was terrible in comparison and sold. If I was going to get an A9, I'd take advantage of some of the discounted MKII's dealers are selling off on the market right now.
Just for the record. I am in no doubt that the A9 has more than ample power and that it is the case for all the versions. I should have elaborated a bit more about the specs I posted, basically the numbers are so big I find them absurd and that is for the Mk1 and Mk2 - the numbers for the Mk3 is beyond absurd.
For reference the amp I use in my living room is a Electrocompaniet which is 2x50 watt, another measurement is weight as it gives a rough idea on construction and in there it pretty much matches the A9 (Except of course only A9 uses Class D amps. The bottom line for me is that the numbers doesn't matter, as long as they are big enough that the system is not stressed. With audio amps it is like powerful cars - power is nothing without control.
I haven't made up my mind on exactly what A9 to go for. It is interesting to me that the Mk3 has a changed speaker configuration and apparently also lots of changes to the electronics - I would love to see/hear B&O lets us all in on their thinking. I plan on hitting the local B&O shop, it is just a mile from here, to look, listen and interrogate them on the A9. I also have to decide on the visuals.
As suggested the Mk2 is more friendly to the bank account and I have seen it priced as low as $1.500 for a demo model with full warranty, but I want to hear or at least read some real reviews that compare the two before deciding. Unfortunately finding proper reviews of the A9 seems impossible - so far those I have found has been by gadget magazines, or similar, and they do not know to really review audio gear.
Earle: Hey All,... I figured I'd contribute to this one since it was incidentally on my mind recently. <SNIP> I feel like stereo definitely has its place and will always be relevant. However, the second part is how well the source was mixed. If you recall the stereo versions of some Beatles tracks that were originally in mono, they were remixed into stereo in a horrible way (from an audiophile's POV). I will admit, the strong separation led to quite a successful novelty that still give smiles to anyone that listens. <SNIP> My total unprofessional opinion is to have stereo, but maybe not have the L and R speakers quite so far apart,... so the A9 might be the best solution to achieve this. with headphones, you're quite restricted. Your source might have decided to place drums 100% in your left ear, which would never happen in real life. An interesting experiment would be to butt up all your L and R speakers right next to each other and maybe just angle the out so slightly. I'll have to wait for someone else to try this,... I have too many wires to deal with to give this one a go! Anyway, hope I've added somewhat... I hate staying quite for this long.
<SNIP>
:-) What you express is much as I have come to think also.
For me stereo definitely has a place, but I have also come to the conclusion that while I love sitting down in the sweet spot and listen to music much of the time I listen without being in that sweet spot. This is why I have come to the place of even considering the A9, simply put if it plays all the music and creates a sound stage that is more that what a traditional single speaker does I imagine it will work well for the more unfocused listening. And it should also be a good deal better than my current way of bringing music to my bedroom, as that is simply playing music in the living room and letting it flow through the door - it is still music but...
Another experiment to the one you suggest which should be somewhat easier to do, simply try and aim your speakers more directly towards your listening spot. The precise effect will of course be dependent on how "pointy" you're speakers are, what reflections from your room does and all that but still it may give some sort idea on just how much or how little even small changes make. One can spend hours experimenting like that, fair warning once you get started you may find yourself moving around furniture to rey and change the reflections from the room also!
Going back to the original question which started this thread, that of a single speaker used for stereo reproduction...
Some single speakers, like those made by Sonos, can be used in a pair for “true” stereo.
Is there such an option with the A9? Can one use TWO A9s, each connected to one channel of a stereo system? To start with, I do not know at this moment whether the A9 has an “input jack” to allow combining the two channels or whether any of its wireless connections can (Sonos’s do) but I am also curious whether the “stereo” set-up of its drivers would result in some weird effects?
Some “single speaker stereo” devices manipulate phase relationships between the two channels to simulate a broader stereo image. I wondered if the A9 does any such processing.
Aussie Michael:To me the Beoplay A9 is not a single speaker. There are speakers on the left and speakers on the right. To me that’s stereo. As opposed to the A1 that is just one speaker.
There are speakers on the left and speakers on the right. To me that’s stereo.
As opposed to the A1 that is just one speaker.
I'd say so too. One might argue the left and right channel are too close to one another for the full stereo experience, but technically it's stereo. But some might judge otherwise: I remember when the A9 came out reading some comments it was way too expensive for a mono speaker...
Vähintään yhdeksänkymmentä prosenttia suomalainen!
toptip:Some single speakers, like those made by Sonos, can be used in a pair for “true” stereo.Is there such an option with the A9? Can one use TWO A9s, each connected to one channel of a stereo system?
CB:I don’t think this build-in option exists for the A9, thought it’s always possible to imagine feeding two A9 with left/right sources...
Jacques
I'm not fully with you on this, Jacques... (or only partially with you if you prefer )
If you're listening to a single singer/speaker or musician, it's mono.
If you're listening to a distant audio source, it's mono (like being in the back of a concert hall for example)
If you want to be "there" (i.e. close to a multiple spreaded audio source, then it's a 2D/3D scene, and stereo a way to achieve this.
The BS Shape should be (is it really ?) a better solution than stereo as I imagine it.
Happy sweet-spotting 😉
Millemissen: Happy sweet-spotting 😉 MM
Indeed, but when I listen to music I do nothing else.
The only place where this really is an issue would be if you set up speakers with room correction tuned to a sweet spot!
Claiming mono is anything but a curiosity, is simply sad. The Stereo image does NOT necessarily require a sweet spot, i will be present anywhere in a room.
I anyone doubt this, simply select a music track, and slide the balance to one speaker, and notice what happens, bye bye low range and and welcome pale and dull.
Where mono is king would be the Centre speaker. Reproduce the center channel on a stereo speaker and you will have about on feet of sweet spot!
MM was referring to Quad electrostatic loudspeakers I think, which have a tiny sweet spot.
I have both A9MkII and a pair of Beolab 17s and I can say that while 17s create without a doubt better stereo soundstage - still it depends quite a lot about the recording itself. I am regularly noticing albums that bring little to none audible stereo image (at least to me) even on separate stereo speakers. Maybe it is also my hearing deteriorating with the age. LOL
In other words: if you‘re not very specific on stereo image you expect, I believe A9 (especially new one with extra pair of speakers) should delight you in every sense. And, it is pleasure to look at it. A beautiful sound-sculpture in your home. <3
chartz: MM was referring to Quad electrostatic loudspeakers I think, which have a tiny sweet spot.
I more inclined to think he is trying to adjust the physical properties of real world to better match the B&O product range.
I have owned a MK1 for a long time. The L/R drivers are mounted on a convex surface that seems to point the more directional drivers slightly outward, with a back-firing woofer. It is a great physical design like a sub-satellite system all-in-one. The soundstage is amazing to me, especially in big space.
We mainly use it outdoors and play it LOUD. Maybe that is why it is not as appealing in a single room? They could use the design philosophy in smaller and battery versions...
I think it is the greatest B&O value of all.
Actually, this is not a bad idea. Clearly using one half of an A9 is “wasteful” but then again not completely so, as much of the power goes to the woofer, of which there is only one.
For over 10 years I have used a pair of Red Lines hanging from the ceiling as my bedroom home theater front speakers as well as for music (tried to add a picture but it keeps getting stuck at “loading”). That set up has served me well except the bass is a bit weak. To that end, I was using a subwoofer which recently stopped working. I thought, with second hand A9s getting cheaper, a pair could replace the Red Lines and not require a subwoofer.
But the question still remains: does the A9 process the signal in some way to create a broader soundstage, despite the close proximity of the drivers to each other? Some other single-unit stereo speakers do, meaning, they use psychoacoustics and “ear transfer functions” to modify perception. Some even do the same to simulate back channels. Those do not work well as stand-alone “mono” speakers in a stereo set up.
If I were to do mono on an A9 it would be by converting the source to line outputs (using whatever converter necessary), splitting each, and sending identical channel output to both A9 line inputs. Repeat for the other unit. Not pretty, but simple and effective. Only question is why?
poodleboy: If I were to do mono on an A9 it would be by converting the source to line outputs (using whatever converter necessary), splitting each, and sending identical channel output to both A9 line inputs. Repeat for the other unit. Not pretty, but simple and effective. Only question is why?
Couple of things:
1. For movies, I think a "truer" separation may be better; and
2. Having grown up with the doctrine of how stereo speakers are to be set up, it is hard to break the habit of thinking that way!
This is how the Red Lines are hung now. I thought two A9s to replace them may look nice:
@toptic
That is a beautiful room and the speakers look fantastic!