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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I was thinking of getting an A6 speaker, but it's been discontinued. There's all these mono speakers now instead (M3, M5, Beosound 1&2). I don't see that these can be paired for stereo, (though the portable speakers seem to have that capability). Are people giving up on stereo because sitting in the sweet spot is too limiting? Were the all-in-one units just not giving enough separation to be worth it (I know the A9 and BS35 still exist)? What's the story here? I'm a bit hesitant to buy an all-in-one wireless speaker that's only mono.
-- Paul
I think that as most people just want a 'compact boom box' these days it's rather pointless trying to separate stereo when the drivers are literally a handful of centimetres apart..
Just have one driver and make it bigger, so more boom.
I've probably completely missed the point, Geoff Martin will interject with something technical, and I'll crawl back under my stone again - but that's my thought on it. :)
People are giving up on stereo because they are lazy and cheap, and it takes a lot of,... you know,... like,... space? "Heck, this other cute one still *Plays* *My* *Music*, right?" Besides, if you are going to buy a tiny speaker and wedge it onto your kitchen counter, in the corner, shoved back echoing between the countertop and the upper cabinets,... well, who the heck *cares*?
Seriously though, it's pretty basic: the difference between no-music vs. having-music, is much much greater than the difference between mono music vs. point-source stereo music vs. separated channels. And in some places, like the kitchen in my example, arranging stereo for multiple areas is tricky. People just don't get that they could buy 6 speakers and play them all less loudly, then arrange them for sink, stove, and table stereo images, plus a decent L/R vs. R/L "traveling" image. Even understanding, they still don't want to bother or don't want to spend the money. It's just too much trouble, if all you really want, is to whistle while you work. Apply the same only-slightly-exaggerated scenario to other rooms of the house. Just grab a speaker, toss it wherever you are. Lather, rinse, repeat.
The same question gets asked of Sonos, where the Play:1 is cute and compact, vs. the Play:3 and the Play:5 try to do stereo from a single box. At least with Sonos, the answer seems to be "so just buy one Play:1, and if you don't like mono, buy a second one and pair 'em to stereo." (That's even true of their Play:5; if you turn it vertical it goes mono, then you add a second unit.) The Bose Wave Radio is another example of point-source stereo. B&W Zeppelin, Naim MuSo, same idea. At least the A6 aimed the speakers slightly outward so it would sound 2-channel at a medium distance. I have heard all four; all are "just fine." I happened to like the A6 best. Does stereo matter? I dunno... To me, it only sounds "right", i.e. stereo image w/non-exaggerated bass, if you place them away from the wall, and sit 4 feet away. But that's just me. I put 6 ceiling speakers in a kitchen once... They liked it. But they also added a Play:3 in the corner of their dining room.
Because modern music is so bad...hearing it out of two speakers would be twice as bad.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Even upgrading to *bad* surround generates a result that (some people think) is perfectly OK: Have you ever pressed the 5-speaker button on a Bose Lifestyle remote? It does some processing to generate a Center and pushes some kind of signal into the Left/Right Surrounds. The rear channels even have their own volume up/down buttons, so it was clearly intended for such "party" use, as it sorta kinda fills a living room with sound(s).
Surely a 'proper' stereo system gives you the best of all worlds. Stereo in the sweet spot, and 'surround' or background when you are standing or sitting anywhere else. In small rooms BL3500's can achieve this, and if Masterlinked together you get a smooth sound transition moving room to room.
There's mention of the Bose Wave Radio above. I have a Mk 1, still in regular bedroom use. Updated with Chromecast Audio it’s output is remarkable. Bose never made any special claims about the Wave R. being Hi Fi etc but it does have a remarkable stereo output, including bass, from those plastic waveguides!
Graham
Jeff: Because modern music is so bad...hearing it out of two speakers would be twice as bad.
You could also argue, that the hearing of the slippers and pipe generation is so bad that they need two speakers.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
beopaul: Are people giving up on stereo because sitting in the sweet spot is too limiting?
Are people giving up on stereo because sitting in the sweet spot is too limiting?
How often do you sit in the sweet spot, when listening to music/music is on???
I do occasionally, but not always - that is the reason why I have both options at home.
I've just purchased a second A2 Active as I am keen to have at least the option of stereo when travelling/outside/in the garage/etc. Often in these environments it's far easier to find the 'sweet spot' for listening rather than in the clutter of home, when I always seem to be moving around and doing other stuff.
Also, I do appreciate good stereo separation in the car - where let's face it, a significant proportion of many people's listening takes place.
Millemissen: beopaul: Are people giving up on stereo because sitting in the sweet spot is too limiting? How often do you sit in the sweet spot, when listening to music/music is on??? I do occasionally, but not always - that is the reason why I have both options at home. MM
That's why you use B&O speakers with the ALT lenses...the "sweet spot" isn't confined to a spot!
I think people are less trying to replicate music as it was performed in a studio and more trying to make their home comfy and inviting. A smaller speaker thats more flexible in placing and size has perks that a stereo system rarely can provide. Sure a small stereo speaker can somewhat do both but how much stereo separation is there then, and is it worth it? Maybe you want fuller sound instead of directional speakers. A portable speaker is even more inconvenient with stereo since it might be placed in different places with different reflections and so on. Then a mono speaker is beneficial because you can focus on making it sound good, loud and clear and make it as small and convenient as possible. And beautiful. I listen quite a lot on my small bluetooth speakers that I can walk around with in my home. It works well and the music comes from it. I am not sure that stereo even gives me any benefits at all in most cases. Music played back live is more than stereo too and usually you put a microphone or two, or three on each instrument and mix it down somehow to a mix decided by a technician. Stereo could therefore arguably be pretty faux.
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Guy: Also, I do appreciate good stereo separation in the car - where let's face it, a significant proportion of many people's listening takes place.
"You think we can slap some oak on this thing?"
Jeff: Millemissen: beopaul: Are people giving up on stereo because sitting in the sweet spot is too limiting? How often do you sit in the sweet spot, when listening to music/music is on??? I do occasionally, but not always - that is the reason why I have both options at home. MM That's why you use B&O speakers with the ALT lenses...the "sweet spot" isn't confined to a spot!
Well said! The argument goes full circle! B&O solved a problem with the acoustic lens, but the majority of speaker manufacturers are focussed on cheaper production. I've often thought that we are gradually conditioned to prefer what manufacturers offer....... rather than manufacturers responding to customer demand. The current trend is that stereo is not important......... not a trend that I follow. Of course B&O are trying to follow both trends at the same time, but do they really publicise the ALT lens advantages sufficiently?
In my opinion it is two separate things
Mono for background music or entertaining is fine - people managed with it for years and years, and nowadays it sounds great and is portable. Added to the fact that these days people have so many distractions, a mobile phone is not only used for streaming music, but social media, texting etc. etc. etc. so the attention span and actual listening is not that great.
Personally, if I want to listen, sit down, enjoy and really listen to music, I am lucky enough to have a separate room with the speakers set up properly and the room is dedicated to music and books - no streaming and no TV.
Andrew: In my opinion it is two separate things Mono for background music or entertaining is fine - people managed with it for years and years, and nowadays it sounds great and is portable. Added to the fact that these days people have so many distractions, a mobile phone is not only used for streaming music, but social media, texting etc. etc. etc. so the attention span and actual listening is not that great. Personally, if I want to listen, sit down, enjoy and really listen to music, I am lucky enough to have a separate room with the speakers set up properly and the room is dedicated to music and books - no streaming and no TV.
+1
I love my BL3’s....too!
I’d say - the ‘sweet spot’ is wider, when a speaker uses the acoustic lens technology.
But that won’t solve the problem completely (and you loose some of the defined stage, that you could have without the lens).
It gives you more ‘freedom’ on the couch - better listening positions when more people/family members are listening.
If you move around in a room, a one point/360 degree system might still be the better choice.
It’s nice to have more options - some will need them, others won’t....no religion there.
Millemissen:If you move around in a room, a one point/360 degree system might still be the better choice.
leosgonewild: Brings me back to when I had JBL Decade speakers with a dual 10” sub in my golf MK3. It had so much pressure that my heart literally skipped a beat. I do enjoy critical listening, but nothing beats the bass pressure you feel on your body in a car.
Brings me back to when I had JBL Decade speakers with a dual 10” sub in my golf MK3. It had so much pressure that my heart literally skipped a beat.
I do enjoy critical listening, but nothing beats the bass pressure you feel on your body in a car.
If you want that at home go and get a Klipsch corner horn and just use the bass part as a subwoofer.I don't know any speaker that has so much power and yes, I would enjoy a live comparison of a Klipsch horn speaker system with the Beolab 90.
Maybe Geoff Martin had that pleasure at work?!
Regarding the topic: Those bluetooth mono speakers are nice convenience items, especially when on holidays. Beoplay A1 in combination with a high res audio player is great for the kids to listen to their music and fairy tales - and I can put both devices somewhere high enough on a shelf that the little toddlers can't reach them (which prolongs the gadgets live!)A2 is used for our music at the holiday home.
When traveling I even use a Beoplay A2 or A1 with a loooong cable to get better sound from the Hotel TVs At home those items are only for the kitchen, bathrooms or the garage when you don't want to install a complete audio system with link speakers in every room. So yes, there's a place for them, too, but not as a main audio system at home.
Oddly enough, Klipschhorns don't really go all that low, I seem to recall a LF cutoff of about 35 hz, not a subwoofer level of bass extension. What they do offer is incredible efficiency and lack of problems with underdamping.
It's also interesting how audio has come full circle. In the beginning, was the single point of sound big old radio. Which evolved into mono "hifi" gear. Which evolved into stereo, and now is coming back to mono again. If you can manage even a small pair of speakers with some separation, not even that much, in my opinion it sounds better. Certainly if you're using a more full range system two speakers makes for better bass as two speakers drive the room modes differently, less chance of suckouts or humps in response.
TWG: Regarding the topic: Those bluetooth mono speakers are nice convenience items, especially when on holidays. Beoplay A1 in combination with a high res audio player is great for the kids to listen to their music and fairy tales - and I can put both devices somewhere high enough on a shelf that the little toddlers can't reach them (which prolongs the gadgets live!)A2 is used for our music at the holiday home. When traveling I even use a Beoplay A2 or A1 with a loooong cable to get better sound from the Hotel TVs At home those items are only for the kitchen, bathrooms or the garage when you don't want to install a complete audio system with link speakers in every room.
When traveling I even use a Beoplay A2 or A1 with a loooong cable to get better sound from the Hotel TVs At home those items are only for the kitchen, bathrooms or the garage when you don't want to install a complete audio system with link speakers in every room.
And that is what it really is...convenience. I’m trying to keep warm presently in bed somewhere where it’s sooooo cold but have a P6 and an Astell & Kern AK70 PDP on my 2 book book shelf. Totally acceptable for casual listening and portability and for the space I’m in. I do 50 - 60% of my music listening with this combo. Does a job where comfort and luxury is sparse.
When on break, I listen to my music on the BL90s. Totally different experience, not only listening to music, but a vastly improved tonal response and importantly, soundstage and imaging adding layers to the experience.
I can understand both view points; the massive space consuming and gravity bending BL90s for an old-school experience, the P6/P2/A1/A2/H8 etc when serious compromise has to be made. They all deliver pleasure equally for what they are and what they do and there is space in the world for all of them.
Ok,thank you Experts ! I am going for a single Beolab 90
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beopaul: I was thinking of getting an A6 speaker, but it's been discontinued.
I was thinking of getting an A6 speaker, but it's been discontinued.
I wouldn't. I own an A9, owned an A6, BeoSound 1 and various BeoPlay speakers (A1, A2, P6 etc) and the A6 was probably the most disappointing. No way near the level of an A9, lacking the vibrancy of the BeoSound 1. Just felt very mid-range to me. A bit 'muddy' sounding.
I'm looking at a BeoSound 2. More compact than the A9, more powerful than the BeoSound 1 and more an all-around sound.
OldJack: Millemissen:If you move around in a room, a one point/360 degree system might still be the better choice. Ok,thank you Experts ! I am going for a single Beolab 90
Slave or master?
Millemissen: OldJack: Millemissen:If you move around in a room, a one point/360 degree system might still be the better choice. Ok,thank you Experts ! I am going for a single Beolab 90 Slave or master? MM
Master.Placed in ''sweet corner'',covering 247 degrees of listening area
Hope I don't bother by replying to this old thread, but I wonder why nobody mentions one disadvantage of mono: interference. There is interference in stereo too, if the speakers are not widely apart, but it doesn't compare to the interference from inside of the summing circuit which reduces stereo into mono.
You can try a test with Michael Jackson's Jam first seconds - listen to the voice saying "One, two, three..." and what it goes on saying afterwards. Compare the mono scenario with a stereo scenario, even if the stereo scenario is with 2 speakers close to each other, on the kitchen counter, no sweet spot at all. In mono it sounds muffled. In the "kitchen-counter-stereo" it won't sound separated, but still, it won't be that muffled.
The same with many of ABBA's songs. Or other music which has out-of-phase left/right sounds. You don't know which sounds the producer has chosen to be out of phase, it's a lottery. Even if the music still sounds ok-ish in mono, this lottery cutout doesn't seem to me to do justice even to kitchen music.
There have been discussions about this over the years. One I recall was around the time when the new BS1 first came out, an early user had a favorite song that had an out-of-phase portion where the 2 channels cancelled out in the mono down-mix. However, it sounded much better on the BS2 which has separate mid-range drivers (pointed away from each other to minimize interference), and they may have tweaked the software to be a bit more intelligent than straight summing the audio channels (I could be making this part up).
The higher range "mono" speakers (Bs2, A9, Edge, Balance) are actually "single point" speakers as they have separate drivers for the stereo channels so out of phase channel interference is less pronounced.
Bottom line, it's all about trade-offs. Convenience and simplicity vs. sound quality. B&O has options for both. Buy what you like.
I use single point speakers in my back yard as the layout doesn't lend itself to a stereo "sweet spot". A while back I was doing some re-wiring, and I accidentally wired one of the channels opposite on the other. Sounded worse than a clock radio.
I also prefer the sound of my "mono" BS2 to a pair of BL8000s I have in my office. How can this be? I cannot position the BL8000s to create a good sweet spot. One speaker must be close, and the other far away and adjusting the balance doesn't fix it. True, there's not sweet spot, but there's more to music than the sweet spot... where is the sweet spot when you listen to live music?
PaulGiles:It seems very limited to me too. Ok, sell the “mono” speaker but have the facility to stereo pair like Sonos. E.g. M3 vs Sonos 1 M3 is stuck as single speaker and you cannot switch the Led off, for. Bedroom environment this can be quite bright. Sonos on the other hand, stereo pair, ability to switch off led. B&O have stated it is 100% not possible with the M3. A real missed opportunity I think.
Ok, sell the “mono” speaker but have the facility to stereo pair like Sonos.
E.g. M3 vs Sonos 1
M3 is stuck as single speaker and you cannot switch the Led off, for. Bedroom environment this can be quite bright.
Sonos on the other hand, stereo pair, ability to switch off led.
B&O have stated it is 100% not possible with the M3. A real missed opportunity I think.
Agree. Although, the led doesn't bother me because my m3 is in my bathroom
The newer versions of Bang & Olufsen mono speakers have been fitted with stereo pairing. It was only the bluetooth speakers and Beoplay M5 before if I am not wrong. But now, you can visit the Bang & Olufsen website and find out that the new Beosound 1, 2, and even the new Beoplay A9 can be paired stereo. Unfortunately, the M3 still has no stereo pairing feature
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