ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello.
I am replacing my speakers and am very confused what to buy. Either white 8000's or 3's.
I have had both and found the 3's to be terribly lacking in mid-range on many not so perfect recordings, where the 8000's mid-range was beautiful and unaffected. Even playing a disc such as the best of Fleetwood Mac played well on the 8000's, but sounded flat on the 3's. I think the disc is mastered well.
But the 3's have a beautifully airy crisp top end, and with the right recording they have more detail and sound exceptionally sweet, but the majority of recordings in my opinion are not up to scratch.
I was in the shop the other day and heard 3's again and they sounded quite lovely.
I cannot play music loud, as the next neighbor is a nut job (the 8000's seem to play a lot louder from experience.)
Has anyone else had the same problems with the 3's - lacking in mid-range and being more sensitive to not so perfect recordings more so than other B&O speakers?
I don't want to buy another pair and be disappointed, but the 3's really did sound great in the shop. Mabey the addition of a lab 11 would clean up the mid-range, letting the 3's concentrate on mids and highs.
I like the look of both speaker, so that is not of concern. I believe the 3's may have been updated on the 3's, so maybe I had mk1??
Any suggestions?? Not sure what to do.......
You are so indecisive mate
Jonnie
Make up a playlist of your favourite music ... the tracks you listen to at least once every month, the tracks you use to lift you up, or simply a bundle of CDs that fit the bill and head to the dealer and LISTEN to those tracks and then make your decision
I did that for my favourite classical music ... and chose BL 6000s over BL 4000s; and then maybe 6 years later added the Beolab 11 which breathed new life into the BL 6000s
BeoNut since '75
I know Jonnie. They both have their +'s & -'s
The beolab 6000's have a sweeter sound than the 8000's.
They sound great with a lab 11! Heard that set up in the shop.
Even the 8000's are improved significantly with a lab 11. The bass can sound a little muddy.
Rex:Even the 8000's are improved significantly with a lab 11.
Demo the bl2 - but probably not suitable with your neighbour.
When we were looking for speakers one of the big pros for the BL3 is the fact that they can be placed on a wall.. They dont take too much space..
A bigger speaker always gets a fuller sound. We currently have BL3 as fronts with a BL11. This works great for us. The 3s lack in the middle, they are a bit thin. But the big pro is the tweeter, the crisp highs, I love it! When we go 4 channel stereo 2x BL3 2xBL4000 and the BL11 then we have a really nice sound!
Good luck, it is a nice "problem" to have - deciding what speakers to buy :)
Had the BL2 before. I don't think it is very musical. It is better for home theater in my opinion.
Too rumbly and slow. Not tight and fast like a musical sub should be I.M.O from experience. (comparing it to a powered B&W sub for instance.)
Probably depends on the room acoustics but I had it in two rooms and thought it was OK for what it was.
I love b&O stuff but from where they derive their power ratings makes me wonder. Beolab 2 850 watt? B&W sub 140 watt rms blew it to smithereens!!
Just as quoted power on beocenter 9500 is 80 watts x 2. There is NO WAY that is a real 80 watts of power per channel. Impossible!! More like 30.
I think it depends how they mesure and the sher power behind, as NAD has low watss with high amp. Or just measure otherwise.. I can agree that B&O has strange power figures. My BL3 with 125 w amp makes less party nice than my old NAD & B&W speakers. In the other hand all of the other parts takes 4 times as much space at home..
Good point Rikard. That's why I have always gone back to B&O. Great sound and stunning aesthetics. (maybey the power output is measured at 2 instead of 8??) I'm no tech head, but anyway.... And saying NAD, I was amazed at the sound from such a budget amplifier, being 25w a channel, so who knows, B&0 may be doing the same. I had a 2400-2 which I loved, & that was only rated at 20 or 30 watts, but it had magical sound, as the NAD. I should have kept it, it was one of my favorites!!
Why do 3's seem to have better resale. The pair i had took me a Loooong time to get rid of in Melbourne, but 8000's seem to be so popular on the secondhand market. i missed an auction the other day, a set of 3's on stands for A$1700 (1100 pounds. Now that was a bargain!!!!)
To answer the original question;
The beolab 3's indeed lack midrange. Somewhere in the old forum archive you can find a discussion about that, with interesting information of mr.Moulton. Recently though, I listened to the 3's in store, witrh and without the addition of a beolab 11. The difference was enormous! Adding the 11 results in a much roomier sound, subjectively more midrange (although Mr Moulton in the mentioned thread denied such a phenomenon could take place because of preset crossover frequencies), but to my ears a essential addition to the beolab 3's.
I have no extensive experience with the 8002's. In the shop they sounded good, lots of clear midrange, but also a bit 'dated', like a speaker. The beolab 3 doesn't; it's hard to locate with your eyes closed.
jc:The beolab 3's indeed lack midrange. Somewhere in the old forum archive you can find a discussion about that, with interesting information of mr.Moulton. Recently though, I listened to the 3's in store, witrh and without the addition of a beolab 11. The difference was enormous! Adding the 11 results in a much roomier sound, subjectively more midrange (although Mr Moulton in the mentioned thread denied such a phenomenon could take place because of preset crossover frequencies), but to my ears a essential addition to the beolab 3's.
I tend to agree
I moved my BL11 (from the BL3s) to be with the BL6Ks in another room, and now the BL3 room sounds quite flat -- I had not realised how used I had become to the subtle influence of the BL11
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BV 11-46 / Beoplay V1 -40 / Apple TV 1+3 / Beosound Essence MK2 / BL3 / 2* BL11 / BL 6000 / BL 12-1 / BL 2000 / 3 * Beo4 /BL Converter 1611
Heribert. I wish I never sold my 3's, and got a sub like you said. Rash decision!! Have some 8000's now with white frets. At least they're art!! They do look sexy still after all these years. Don't quite have the same crisp finesse as the 3's though. Arghhh!!
Rex your BL8000s re timeless and i bet look incredible in white. Don't despare, they will look amazing in years to come AND you can keep those in your lounge and maybe work towards a music room / home cinema room / dj room with BL3s in!!! Or do what i did with my first B&O and make a chill out room. It was at the back of my house and i had the best sofa in there which also made into a bed. I'd sleep in there on a weekend and enjoy the B&O!!!
Something to think about!!!
Awwwww thanks Pauli!!
Dude its a great idea because then you never need to compromise.
It worked well for me because in my house i had all over my Technics separates and MINIDISC recorders and BOSE AM5 speakers. To me, it was the most dynamic sounding system and i loved it BUT i really wanted a B&O too. I loved the Century but it was no good at being creative, for instance you couldnt record a MiniDisc or CDR compilation on it. So i got round it by making that chill out room and for that room it was perfect as i didnt want big boxes and lots of dusty cable which of course came with the Technics.
Sadly it didnt sound even 25% as good as the Technics/BOSE combo but it looked great in this chill out room and played 'soft' music really nicely. If i am to be TOTALLY honest I was a bit disappointed in its sound quality for such a large amount of money, but i told myself it was great and played certain kinds of music on it.
Of course the poor old lean machine is retired these days as it has FM & CD and the tape deck stopped worked after 3 years. Got to say it make very very clear recordings!!! I don't even use it now but i still keep it for retro moments. Sadly that glass door was a pain from day 1 - if the house temperature drops, it simply sticks and refuses to open! hmmmm.
Chill out rooms can be a very nice addition in a house and certainly would accomodate those beautiful BL3s. But Bl8000 are timeless. ive never really heard them but i liked the bl6000 once id cranked the bass and treble up so im assuming they sound like a bigger 6000?
In a way the BL8000 have the style and grace of a grand piano - that's my interpretation any way. I think if i could choose any speaker for a beach house, i'd go with the BL8000 as the ultimate looking speaker!!!
It's a big like putting Audrey Hepburn next to the singer Pink - she may not sing as loud but she sure looks a lot better ;)
Pauli.
Well said!!
My mother has Acoustimass 5 speakers (from a LOOONG time ago.)
The sound off those lifestyle systems with the amp built into the sub is horrendous.
The drivers are massively power hungry. Big power makes them sound decent. The inbuilt amp on those lifestyle systems is just not strong enough to drive the drivers. don't know what Bose was thinking.... Anyhow....
I hooked them up with a 180 watt a channel Marantz power amp and they really don't sound that bad!
People bash Bose, but they do things differently like B&o.
I had an acoustic wave boom box with batteries, and that little thing just cranked.
Nothing else like it on the market that can put out that kind of sound/volume without mains power.
Had a beosound 1. The clarity was much better, but it was for ambient listening.
totally agree with you Rex. I had the AM5's too bought as a shorty way back in 1988 with lots of £3 a week paper round saving believe me!!!
Yes they are VERY power hungry but MY GOSH they are practically bomb proof!!! The abuse they took at my teenage parties years later. Strange thing is my little brother is still using them 24 years later and they are still as strong.
BOSE is very very much like B&O in that it has people who love them and others who really hate them. I have several friends who will only buy BOSE from headphones to docks to home cinemas etc. Their is a strong brand loyalty with them just like B&O but then again, as a marketing guy, brand loyalty exists in every market. Don't even get me started on clothes or protein powders :)
Yo Pauli.
When I was a young young man, I used to set up sound equipment for conferences/weddings etc. (The wedding singer is BACK.)
Like you said, Bose speakers are bullet-proof like and impossible to blow, almost...... like B&o.
The Pa systems they made ala 402 0r 802 with a sub, were impossible to blow. It was quite amazing the sound/output from a small driver/s.
Other traditional PA systems did not really sound any better at all.
But again, the speakers and sub were always driven by a grunty amp.
Like any passive speaker, they only sound as good as the amp that is driving them.
I put on eBay a pair of Jamo bookshelf speakers that I thought were absolute junk.
My sister gave them to me. She was running them with a Sony receiver and they just sounded like rubbish.
Come the day the guy picks them up, I hooked them up to a Musical Fidelity amp (100w x 2) and they just sounded sublime!! Argghhhhhhh!!!
Hahahhahha love that story about the speakers!!!!
In radio, we still use BOSE 802s to this day for all of our concerts. They are the only ones that we can rely on! Same with Pioneer when it comes to DJ equipment. They take a lot of abuse from our DJs who all have their own style or abusing equipment. We once had a dj who got through cross faders on mixers every 2 weeks :)
During my radio presenting days, I once did my breakfast show and we got caught out in a rain storm. We ran for cover in the woods only to hear bangs which we thought was thunder - it turned out we'd left the mixing desk and amps out in the rain and i think it was the amps blowing through the 802 speakers. Needless to say, the AV company were we'd hire them from dropped our account after that. Seriously, we thought it was really bad thunder :) Those poor amps ;)
OUCH!!!!
Dtzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz grrrrrrrrrr!!!
Hey Rex, the beauty of today's technology & B&O having amps built in is of course you don't need to buy lots of components. One day if you created another room with BL3s, you could get away with say a Playmaker (when a prettier model is announced) etc :)
PS Damn, if I was in Aus, i'd be surfing every day - one of my biggest loves!!!!!! Julian Wilson from Aus will soon be the World's best surfer!
My buddy has a couple of pioneer decks, I went with him to the Melbourne cup.
He was playing in one of the tents. I only had one drink........ (BS)
They are out of production now he tells me....?
Analogue vinyl sounds 100 times better than CD or digital from my experience. Has a beautiful warmth to it.
We were playing CD then record of the same track and there is NO comparison.
Hopefully getting a 6500 system off Lesley.
The prettiest most elegant white record player that has been made.
Very sexy!! (Like Anna in her hey day.)
Oh yeah the 6500, 5500 and 5000 were the most amazing designed B&O systems - i have a 1984 brochure with the 5000 and CD50 in it!!!
Beautiful systems, it must have taken drastic guts to decide to stop the production of the 6500/7000!!!
Yes the Pioneers - the CDJs are incredible -all very similar from the CDj500 to todays models - again bullet proof. Good to see a company dating back many many decades still producing quality today!
I have my late Grandad's Beogram 1500 in storage. He loved that record player. Such a delicate looking player though and terrible at finding a track as i believe you had to physically pick up the tonearm. Beautifully crafted though. I remember that he was so proud of his B&O system.
Pauli, you say mini disc!! lol! i was watching Basic Instinct - when Sharon was an absolute cranker.. pause.. I have to compose myself... on Laser disc.. ha Hah!! The old formats!! God she was the most beautiful girl in that movie, diving the Lotus Esprit!! & her *** lover drove one as well. Classic car!! Best of British in their heyday.
Haha we had to do an appraisal of the film Basic Instinct in our first year at University. We had to do some bizarre academic interpretation of it - not one of my university high lights!!!!!
I loved MINIDISC - I found it more reliable than CD and I loved being able to record on it, delete tracks and rearrange. We still use MINIDISC in radio as a back up of WAV files of programmes & adverts etc. I like it as a medium very much.
Oh gosh yes, i remember laser disc way back. How anyone could have fought over VHS, Beta etc in the days of curved crt screens is unbelievable. I remember when B&O made a Video 2000 recorder. Now that was a bizarre format!!!! Being honest I still use VHS for vintage moments and videos of me as a child still play fantastically - 28 years on. I dont think there will be many DVDs still working at 28 years old!!!! gotta admit i still like VHS. I used it in the 90s as a 8 hour sound recorder - fantastic sound quality. Hard to find a track though :) Again, Panasonic video recorders were bomb proof!!!
Totally agree both Sharon and Lotus are RAW!!!
Jesus!!
Another 80's/90's fan. Love it!!
http://youtu.be/DZHUgchT6Gg
Sexy x 2!!
Not sure which one looks the most sexiest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! VERY NICE!
Definitely an early 80s music fan!!! I was around 5 when the breakdance craze was out in 1984 and man, I lived for that!!! I still love it now & i'm mad on all of the 80s soul funk tunes!!! I had it all on chrome cassette in the day and i've spent a fortune buying them all on iTunes which i've shared with friends.
Weird Science from the mid 80s is probably one of my favourite films. Indecent Proposal from the 90s because of its beautiful soundtrack. Now my B&O Century came alive with that piano music!!!
Ha Ha Ha!!!
Kelly Le Brock??
She was a vixen!!!
Love it!!
buddy, I had the chance of meeting Penny Ford when she was in Melbourne.
Her sister .. deceased.. Sharon Redd was Preludes staple!!
Ha ha ha!!
http://youtu.be/kbFSXU3ByPk
http://youtu.be/_g__PaW0ibQ
http://youtu.be/IHQL7yhqbww
http://youtu.be/i8mKPp9_ogA (oldie but a goodie)
Sisters in crime!!
WOW Absolutely incredible!
Not really Tigger.
Send me your email PM, and I will send you some great and rare music files I got off my buddy.
They are true classics - ha early 80s music was pretty coooool!!!
Well I have lived with both... long story... The Beoiab 8000s were my parents but got lost in a house fire. I have the beolab3s as near field computer speakers and that's where they should stay. They can't excel far field. I just tested them out and it sounded dismal! Perhaps with an aid of a subwoofer things will improve? The Beolab3's bass are a little boomy when play at an average level far field. I attribute that to high distortion.
The ALT technology aren't exactly ideal btw. Dispersion is way too wide and causes the treble to be too hot in room; a lot of the high frequency is reflected off from an untreated room. That's why you think the midrange of the Lab3s are scooped.
The Lab8000s are way more neutral then again the midrange is a little phasey because there are two drivers working in tandem in the range when only one should be working.
None of the speakers above are paint accurate pictures of the music recorded but you just have to choose the lesser of two evils.
I really wish B&O will come out with a range of no compromise column loudspeakers. Like why should I choose aesthetic over performance when I can have both. Sure you can charge higher but audiophiles don't really care. I mean The lab8000s is only priced at a level of a decent outfit. Loudspeakers outlive clothes! Times are different people are way more discriminating these days plus there is a larger affluent group too. Stop putting cheap parts into great chassis and you can of course raise prices if the speakers deliver.
Again ALT isn't all that. It gets tiring after a long listen. And squeezing high distortion bass out of small drivers just causes listening fatigue. You are doing many things wrong B&O. On the other note. I think I might be getting a pair of gold Beolab8000s for the bedroom of my vacation home. lol... I am sucker for design. It's a love hate.