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Can anyone advise / help me please?
I have lubricated the motor bearings of my Beogram 2000 (properly by vacuum infusion) and have just put it all back into the turntable. I also cleaned and lubricated all moving parts of the idler wheel assembly.
I also had to replace the LIFT button assembly as mine had broken.
I'm as sure as I can be that I've put everything back correctly - I took many photos during disassembly.
I was hoping for a faultless re-commission of the turntable but sadly that is not the case.
PROBLEMS:
When I press the LIFT button I get a loud horrible 'spinning' noise (sounds to me like metal on metal, but I could be wrong?) combined with no rotation of the platter. The platter will spin if I help it manually, but it doesn't spin for long, certainly not long enough for the pick up arm to move over to the start of the record.
Additionally, when I press the LIFT button again to stop the motor, nothing happens, the motor keeps running, along with the horrible noise. I know the motor is working because I can see the conical stepped pulley, that drives the idler wheel, spinning.
To further complicate matters, when I power off and repeat the start process the motor sometimes doesn't work at all (or at least the conical stepped pulley is not spinning).
I have checked several times that the conical stepped pulley turns freely by hand, that it has been done up tight and is not slipping on the rotor spindle. I have also checked that the platter drive belt is seated properly. I now fear that if I allow the motor to run for too long, particularly with this noise present, then I will 'burn' something out or definitely do some damage.
I was very careful when lubricating the motor bearings. Both were soaked in acetone, then air dried, then soaked under vacuum in Mobil Velocite 6 oil. It took 24hrs before all the bubbles had stopped rising, then I released the vacuum. I also soaked the felt pads in acetone, air dried them, and re-oiled them before re-assembly. I had lost track which bearing was the bottom and which was the top but I believe them to be identical.
MOTOR NOISE - The noise is either coming from the stepped pulley (do I have it too tight up against the metal frame, however, as stated earlier it turns freely by hand), OR is it the motor or the bearings or an out of balance issue? I wasn't getting this noise before disassembling the motor. Obviously I have done something wrong but what? Have I fouled up somewhere when re-lubricating the motor bearings, or if not, have I assembled the Idler Wheel framework wrongly, i.e. do the 3 spring tensioners that secure the idler wheel framework need to go back in a certain way, perhaps in a specific order? That said, the noise occurs regardless of whether the idler wheel is in contact or not with the conical stepped pulley.
LIFT BUTTON START IS INTERMITTENT PLUS IT IS NOT STOPPING THE MOTOR - I have checked the solenoid that the LIFT button engages and all seems ok, no broken wires or anything that I can see. Pressing the LIFT button does start the motor, but starting is intermittent, and the platter doesn't turn on its own, i.e. without my help. The 'base' platter that the main platter sits on spins very freely when the turntable has no power (and possibly when there is power but I haven't checked that yet). I have also checked the thin connecting rod that runs away from the LIFT button rotating ring, and that seems ok. I've 'visually' checked all electrical wiring and I can't see anything wrong. I've turned the speed selector around the LIFT button to each of its 3 speed positions and everything seems fine, mechanically at least.
I'm now puzzled. Such a shame, particularly after a lot of hard work (hard as I've never done anything like this before). Does anyone have any ideas on the reasons for these problems and what steps I might take to identify and rectify?
Thank you for your help. Carl
Hi All,
Regarding my post above I haven't heard from anyone. Not sure why but then it is the holiday season.
Thought I'd provide an update:
I've taken the motor and bearings apart again to check everything was assembled correctly, and I'm pleased to say it was. However by powering up with the turntable upside down and the base cover off, I was able to ascertain that the 'noise' was the rotor slightly rubbing against the motor body. That is now fixed with no noise.
When putting it all back together I followed the service manual guidelines on adjusting the step cone pulley. I am happy that the step cone pulley is now set at the correct height in relation to the idler wheel.
I still had the problem with the LIFT button not stopping the motor. So using the service manual I adjusted the micro switch to its correct setting, however it was already in its correct setting so no adjustment was needed. The LIFT button still did not stop the motor.
Once all assembled, and with the turntable now the right way up, and importantly with the transport screws in their 'open' operating position, I discovered the LIFT button did now stop the motor. So clearly it was the transport screws being screwed down in their transport position that was preventing proper operation.
But that's far from the end of the story - whilst testing the motor to realign the rotor, i.e. with the turntable upside down and base cover off, the motor operated every time I pressed the LIFT button, i.e. the step cone pulley started to spin. To stop the motor I had to power off at the mains.
Now that it is all re-assembled, I cleaned the step cone pulley and idler wheel to remove the possibility of any oil, and attached my new drive belt. I installed the platter and adjusted the pickup arm weight in accordance with the user manual.
Then with full expectation of a working turntable I set the speed selector, put a record on and pressed the LIFT button. The platter started to spin, but it was disappointingly sluggish (just as it was before taking the motor apart). Then the pick up arm moved over to the start of the record. As the pickup arm lowered the platter slowly stopped spinning, leaving the pickup arm touching the record.
Now I can't even get the motor to start without unplugging from the mains and plugging it back in again. And when I do that the same problem re-occurs, i.e. the pickup arm lowers and the platter slowly stops spinning.
What could be causing this? remembering that I have a fully lubricated motor including vacuum infused bearings, a new LIFT button, and a new drive belt.
Is it an electrical problem? I did have to remove the electric wires from the multi connector when I removed the motor, but I am 100% sure they have been put back correctly - unless there is something I don't know? And after all, the motor has worked when upside down, and the turntable does start before it promptly stops.
I know this and my first thread above are wordy descriptions, but I wanted to give the fullest account I could. Can anyone help, is this a known problem that can be rectified. Does the problem I describe sound like its electrical, is there something else that could be wrong with motor, or is this a mechanical problem somewhere else within the turntable?
I'm at a loss as to what to try next so any guidance/advice will be very much appreciated.
Thank you, Carl
Anyone?? I realise the issues I’m having must sound very odd. I don’t know what else to try but I won’t give up until it’s working properly.
Many thanks for any help - Carl
Hi Carl,
You must keep the faith, Beograms threads have no much luck those days. I know what you're going thru as I started some myself which did have less to no answer at all when at the same time other thread about all or nothing have plenty of reply.
Maybe Beograms are kind of a church where newbies are not really welcome to fiddle with?Or more likely, just that people don't have nothing to say about the topic!
I believe that if you keep commenting on your own topic it may help someone someday. And also that if your close to do a really big mistake someone will come to advise you not to do so. Because in the end the fact nobody answers our questions make us move forward and find our own solutions. And so far, your beogram is going better, even if not absolutely working, but better still. As do mine.
It's a little bit deceptive but that's the way it is…
Well, how and where did you finally find the lift button? how did you change it?
Hi matador43, well you made me smile so thank you, and I promise to keep the faith :)
Yes it’s disconcerting when no replies are forthcoming, makes me wonder if I’m being a nuisance through my lack of know how. Maybe a solution to my issues are unknown? Sadly I don’t have the tools or competence to check the electrics in order to rule that out. But it does seem like an electrical problem to me? I will persevere through.
I got the replacement LIFT button holder from Martin (Dillan) which included the securing ring. It was actually quite easy to fit. The only downside is that the securing ring has to be glued to the holder. The securing ring, as it came, didn’t slide over the holder easily. It felt like once it was pushed on then it wouldn’t come off if adjustments were necessary. So I decided to file it down just a little so that it went on and could come off relatively easily. Once I was happy with everything I glued the securing ring to the holder. I’m very happy with the result.
Rgds, Carl
Hi to all,
Made some good progress today. I now have consistent power. I simply re-checked and reconnected all the wires that go into the white multi connector (choc block). There must have been a dodgy connection that I couldn't see, or a plastic sleeve from one of the wires was somehow preventing a reliable connection? I would have preferred to solder the 'paired' wires before inserting them into the connector block, but I don't have any equipment nor have I soldered before.
I also noticed the conical cone was slipping on the rotor spindle. I thought I had done it up tight but on closer inspection I could see that the shaft of the small screwdriver I had used was marginally too big, and did not go far enough in to the tiny grub screw hole to tighten the grub screw properly. Consequently I bought a smaller screwdriver and now the conical cone doesn't slip on the spindle.
The combination of good electrical connections and a non-slipping cone now allows the platter to get up to spin speed quickly, and the pickup arm moves into position without hesitation.
However - I still have two problems that as yet I can't fathom. I've read both the service manual and the user manual but haven't found the answer.
PROBLEM 1 - When a record is playing and I push the LIFT button to stop, the pickup arm rises but the platter keeps on spinning. The only way I can stop the platter from spinning is to turn off at the mains. I realise doing this is preventing the various mechanisms from going back to their default rest positions but I have no choice. Also with the platter spinning and the pickup arm raised (after I have pressed LIFT to stop), I've tried manually moving the pickup arm over to 'end of record' position but nothing happens, the pickup arm does not go back to its rest, and the platter doesn't stop spinning.
PROBLEM 2 - With the new drive belt in position and the idler wheel up against the spinning conical cone, I get a regular clucking sound plus a continuous loud whirling noise. The clunking sound is most likely caused by an irregularity in the idler wheel rubber, caused by being left up against the conical cone during many years of storage (I suspect I need a refurbished one). But I can't understand what the continuous noise is, particularly as I have lubricated everything that spins and moves in that area. Could this continuous noise be caused by the hardened rubber on the idler wheel. NB: when the belt is removed and the motor is spinning without contact with the idler wheel then all is very quiet.
Problem 1 is my main concern, so if you can help then that would be great. Problem 2 I suspect might be solved by a new idler wheel.
Carl: ... There must have been a dodgy connection that I couldn't see, or a plastic sleeve from one of the wires was somehow preventing a reliable connection? ... the conical cone was slipping on the rotor spindle. I thought I had done it up tight
... There must have been a dodgy connection that I couldn't see, or a plastic sleeve from one of the wires was somehow preventing a reliable connection?
... the conical cone was slipping on the rotor spindle. I thought I had done it up tight
Exactly why it is so difficult to help in these cases.It's next to impossible to take a qualified guess at what could possible have gone wrong. when you take it all apart, put it back together andsomething no longer works.Problems with "natural causes" are much easier to diagnose.
Carl: I get a regular clucking sound plus a continuous loud whirling noise. The clunking sound is most likely caused by an irregularity in the idler wheel rubber, caused by being left up against the conical cone during many years of storage (I suspect I need a refurbished one). But I can't understand what the continuous noise is, particularly as I have lubricated everything that spins and moves in that area. Could this continuous noise be caused by the hardened rubber on the idler wheel.
I get a regular clucking sound plus a continuous loud whirling noise. The clunking sound is most likely caused by an irregularity in the idler wheel rubber, caused by being left up against the conical cone during many years of storage (I suspect I need a refurbished one). But I can't understand what the continuous noise is, particularly as I have lubricated everything that spins and moves in that area. Could this continuous noise be caused by the hardened rubber on the idler wheel.
Yes.
Martin
Hi Martin, I totally understand what you're saying. I did think of not making my silly mistakes public, but if it can catch me out then it might catch out a similar newbie. At the end of the day lessons learnt are for sharing no matter how silly it makes one look - I'm ok in myself with the learning curve I'm on, trouble is this renovation is a one off, and so I doubt I'll get any future benefit from my currently improving knowledge.
Thanks for confirming I need a new idler wheel.
Just need to sort out why the platter won't stop when I press LIFT but I will get there. It will probably be two steps back and only one forward until I've sorted it.
Many thanks, Carl