ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Beovision 7-55 MK1 red, Beolab 10 red. Beolab 50, all black. Beolab 17 broken ice. Beolab transmitter. Apple tv4 and apple express 2.
Turntable: Beogram 6000 (quadraphonic) + Beomaster 6000 (quadraphonic) as pre-amp
CD player: Beogram CD 5500
Cassette deck: Beocord 5500
Universal disk player: Cambridge CXU
File player/streamer: Auralic Aries (Femto clock model)
Reel-to-reel deck: Beocord 1200
Eight-track cartridge player: National Panasonic RS845US (quadraphonic)
Hi
I have recently bought an Auralic Aries G1. I feed the 50 with digital coaxial cable.
The result is fantastic with extremly good sound with much more sense of
resolution than with powelink from Eclipse.
I recommend the Auralic streamer alot for this speakers.
Martin
NEW! Beovision Eclipse 65 2nd generation (G1) with floorstand (from STB Brackets), Beolab 50 front, Beolab 3 rear, 2 x Beoplay A6 linkrooms, 2xBeoremote one BT, Beosound 9000 Mark III (sw 3.4), Beosound 5 (for DLNA only), Philips Hue (all lights in the home), Oppo UDP-203, Apple TV 4K (2021 model). Beoremote HALO, 3xBeoplay Charging pad, Beoplay M5
politician:Eight-track cartridge player: National Panasonic RS845US (quadraphonic)
I would love to see a photo of the pinnacle of speaker development driven by an eight track... please?
BEOVOX141: politician:Eight-track cartridge player: National Panasonic RS845US (quadraphonic) I would love to see a photo of the pinnacle of speaker development driven by an eight track... please?
At least it's a pure analog source!
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
1. Beovision Eclipse 65 via Powerlink
2. Oppo 105D via Coax
3. Auralic Vega G2 Streamer/DAC (plus next week the Leo GX Clock) via XLR
4. Melco N1ZH60 Music Server via DNLA via the Vega or Eclipse
Hi mr 10%,
Wich of
the sources
do you think sound best?
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
- Flere
smile and enjoy the moment
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia
Mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4
Mikipedia on Intagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikipedi4/
Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
You can read more about my system here:
https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/35361/262317.aspx#262317
Razlaw:I am hoping my 50s will arrive this week. I am planning to connect them to a Core by optical and a BV7 by Power Link. That will also give me access through the Master Link system to a Beosound 5 and Beosound 3000.
Esax:Would be interesting to her your opinion on core vs beosound 5. Beovision 7-55 MK1 red, Beolab 10 red. Beolab 50, all black. Beolab 17 broken ice. Beolab transmitter. Apple tv4 and apple express 2.
Our Beolab 90s are connected to:
1. Beovision Eclipse 65" via wireless Powerlink
2. BeoSound 9000 via wired Powerlink
3. Yamaha CX-10000 preamplifer via the XLR inputs.
Plugged into the Yamaha I have a Marantz CD-94/CDA-94 CD player/DAC pairing, plus a Nakamichi TX-1000 turntable/SME309 arm/Clearaudio MC Essence cartridge through an Anatek MC1 phono preamplifier.
Martin: Hi mr 10%, Wich of the sources do you think sound best?
Hi mr 10%, Wich of the sources do you think sound best?
I use the Oppo for CD playback - rarely. The Oppo also plays direct to the Eclipse in DVD mode.
The Melco is a cool music server but over rated and over promised in terms of what Melco said it could/would do and what it can. Useless control interface (touted as a music server you don’t need a PC for - I could do them over of false trading with that). However, stick it over the network and it’s works with everything.
The Vega G2 also picks up from the network, is highly controllable via its DS app and it just works. Can also act as a preamp for other connections if required so probably worth investing in if you have lots of 3 party gear to connect up. It’s also my Qobuz source (Melco should have done that).
Musically, I have only limited experience due to time away from work. However, I remember giving a bit of Mo’Horizons a bit of bash and noting that this routing seem to offer more “punch”, rhythm over the source coming in via the eclipse and Powerlink . The best I can describe is like wearing sunglasses on a fair day. The tint is nice (Powerlink) but seeing correctly without the slight colour or blur is a revelation.
Next week I’m home demoing the Leo clock (sharpened th3 sound a lot on a demo with some good-ish monkey coffins and I’m hoping the same will happen again with the 90s. Not cheap. Have to see?)
Razlaw:I have listened to the same track with the Core and the Beosound 5, at this point I do not hear a difference.
Esax:What did you run trough the core? Beovision 7-55 MK1 red, Beolab 10 red. Beolab 50, all black. Beolab 17 broken ice. Beolab transmitter. Apple tv4 and apple express 2.
Hi there - I'm thinking of doing the same with my (soon to be arriving) 50s.
Do you have any issues using the Nucleus as server and streamer?
I keep looking at a Nucleus and a separate streamer / DAC to feed the 50s.
But not sure its worth spending 2k+ on a dedicated streamer / DAC.
Maybe Nucleus first, and add a streamer later if desired.
Anyway, any thoughts re quality and ease of use with Roon would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Flere:With a ROON Nucleus connected via USB to the BeoLab 50.
Esax:What do you feed your Beolab 50 and/or 90 with? I mean music device. Beovision 7-55 MK1 red, Beolab 10 red. Beolab 50, all black. Beolab 17 broken ice. Beolab transmitter. Apple tv4 and apple express 2.
.
Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.
Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.
Oppo 105 connected as follows:
I've got the 90s with the inputs prioritised in the order listed above, That way they automatically select the S/PDIF input over the XLR when I'm playing PCM materials, and the Power Link wins when I turn on the TV.
No, the Beovision 11 isn't 4k - and the Oppo isn't either. Neither does either support Dolby Atmos. However, we don't watch TV much - so 4k is not a priority for us, and the Oppo has excellent performance - and too many good features for me to want to replace it with anything
For testing & experiments, I occasionally use the following as well:
Cheers-geoff
Thanks Geoff.
I have my 50s coming soon, so have been pondering audio sources.
Cant quite decide between just feeding it Roon Nucleus via USB Audio to the 50s. I wont ask for comment re quality, as my guess is that its not something you have played with.
Or as an alternative, using a 3rd party streamer/DAC unit (Auralic, Linn etc) to the 50s.
The Linn streamer I'm looking at has both digital outputs (SPDIF), and analogue (RCA) outputs. I can connect the Linn to the 50s both of two ways. The Linn will output to both simultaneously.
1. SPDIF (digital) route the audio through my Beosystem 4 via Powerlink to the 50s, but wont then use the Linn DAC, but as a BS4 source can then be distributed multi-room using NL.
2. RCA direct to the 50s, will use the Linn as both streamer and DAC.
The Linn will output to both simultaneously, and I can chose which to listen to using the B&O app.
My question to Flere above was given his/her experience of just using the Roon Nucleus direct to the 50s via USB Audio (i.e. no additional streamer/DAC).
Anyway, looking forwards to the 50s installation.
Sandeep
Geoff Martin: Oppo 105 connected as follows: -> HDMI -> Beovision 11 -> Power Link to Beolab 90s for anything with video or in surround -> S/PDIF - > Beolab 90s for all 2.0 PCM playback up to 192 kHz -> XLR -> Beolab 90s for DSD materials (2.0 SACD and DSD files) I've got the 90s with the inputs prioritised in the order listed above, That way they automatically select the S/PDIF input over the XLR when I'm playing PCM materials, and the Power Link wins when I turn on the TV. No, the Beovision 11 isn't 4k - and the Oppo isn't either. Neither does either support Dolby Atmos. However, we don't watch TV much - so 4k is not a priority for us, and the Oppo has excellent performance - and too many good features for me to want to replace it with anything For testing & experiments, I occasionally use the following as well: A Raspberry Pi running Volumio connected to the USB Audio input An old Google Chromecast Audio with an Optical connection to the 90s A Beogram turntable via a cheap third-party RIAA preamp into the RCA inputs. As soon as I finish making my own RIAA, that'll join the system and get used a lot more, I hope... (otherwise, I wasted my time making the preamp...) Cheers-geoff
Mikipidia:Side note question, what makes a good RIAA? I though it was all a standard they had to follow?! How can you tell which one is good/better/best?
RIAA is just a specification of a filter curve - so it's a measure of the magnitude response (what most people call the "frequency response") of the preamp - the gain of the preamp as a function of frequency at one input level.
However, this is only one measure of a preamp - and, more importantly, it's just a linear measure, which is one of the easiest aspects to implement.
Like any audio equipment, there are lots of other things to consider - the non-linear aspects like signal-to-noise ratio and distortion characteristics, for example.
Since I'm building my own, I can also optimise the output level to the expected level at the input of the device to which it's connected. This helps to maximise the signal-to-noise of the entire system.
One of the reasons I'm not finished designing my preamp yet is that I haven't quite decided whether it will only have the RIAA compensation, or if I should also implement some of its predecessors and competitors. This is because I have about 2 m of shelves of 78 RPM records in my collection - many of which were made before the RIAA standard. In those days, you had a selectable de-emphasis filters, and you just picked the one that sounded best for the record you put on. I also have some of the old Teldec Direct Metal Mastering discs, which didn't use the RIAA standard either.
For a little more info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization
https://wikimili.com/en/RIAA_equalization
https://audiocirc.com/2016/06/30/equalization-curves/
Cheers
-geoff
Sandyb:I wont ask for comment re quality, as my guess is that its not something you have played with.
Hi,
I never make any comment or recommendations on any audio equipment that I have not personally tested...
HOWEVER, I should like to point out that, when looking at streaming devices, you can't just consider the end-device (in this discussion, the player). You also have to consider the interaction between it and your network, the software running inside your NAS drive (if you have one), the streaming service and its local settings, and whether the file on the streaming service's server is identical to the original master or not...
I wrote a 8+1-part series of articles about these pitfalls that might help if you can't sleep. They start here:
https://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2018/02/08/typical-errors-in-digital-audio-part-1/
If you go through all of these, then you'll understand why making any recommendation is foolish. My only advice is to find something you're happy with, and then never read another magazine or the Internet again. :-)
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
AdamS: Our Beolab 90s are connected to: 3. Yamaha CX-10000 preamplifer via the XLR inputs. Plugged into the Yamaha I have a Marantz CD-94/CDA-94 CD player/DAC pairing, plus a Nakamichi TX-1000 turntable/SME309 arm/Clearaudio MC Essence cartridge through an Anatek MC1 phono preamplifier.
I concur that a high-end streaming transport designed to feed the BeoLab 90 and 50 would be an excellent addition to the B&O range.
Is there anything like that on the horizon, Geoff?
I'm currently using an Auralic Aries Femto in this role, but I'm vaguely considering upgrading to an Aries 2.1 or dCS Network Bridge at some point.
The big problem with the Core is that its direct digital output is Optical only, and the BeoLab 90 cannot accept signals above 96/24 by Optical. As such, there are no sources in the current B&O range – whether turntables, CD/universal disk players or streaming transports – that can drive the Lab 90s or 50s, making me think they're missing a trick.
I think the nit we are picking here is the Core’s best output is 96/24, which is fine for the BL18-20 as those speakers also max out at 96/24. But BL50 and BL90 each have various inputs that can accept up to 192/24. Thus, B&O offers no streaming device that can “fully” serve the firm’s two best speakers. Whether we could hear a difference is another question. Whether the source material is mastered in a way that makes a difference noticeable is yet another question. :)
Based on my experience with a Bluesound Node 2i and my Core (see thread A DAY WITH THE BLUESOUND NODE 2i), I’m not sure I could hear an improvement but I understand that for people spending as much as cars or small homes on speakers, they want to ensure they’re getting the highest quality sound. I was surprised at B&O’s lack of delivery at the highest resolution and bit rate but what do I know!
Currently: BeoLab 17, BeoLab 18, BeoSound Core, Beosound Level, Beosound A1 2nd Gen, BeoPlay S8 Connection Hub, Halo, Essence Remote
Previously: BeoSound 1 non-GVA
Indeed, and another way of looking at it is this - why make a speaker capable of higher rates if those higher rates make no difference?
There is no strict necessity for B&O to make a higher quality audio source though - the 50s/90s are sufficiently niche, that its reasonable for B&O to expect (some of) those customers to use 3rd party sources.
Of course it would be nice if they did, but I can see why they haven't.
Curly: I think the nit we are picking here is the Core’s best output is 96/24, which is fine for the BL18-20 as those speakers also max out at 96/24. But BL50 and BL90 each have various inputs that can accept up to 192/24. Thus, B&O offers no streaming device that can “fully” serve the firm’s two best speakers. Whether we could hear a difference is another question. Whether the source material is mastered in a way that makes a difference noticeable is yet another question. :) Based on my experience with a Bluesound Node 2i and my Core (see thread A DAY WITH THE BLUESOUND NODE 2i), I’m not sure I could hear an improvement but I understand that for people spending as much as cars or small homes on speakers, they want to ensure they’re getting the highest quality sound. I was surprised at B&O’s lack of delivery at the highest resolution and bit rate but what do I know!
Just a quick follow-up on the stuff I wrote about de-emphasis filters back a couple of weeks ago.
I've been digging into vinyl playback a little more than usual of late, for reasons both personal and professional (as you can probably guess). As I told someone recently, I'm old enough that my textbooks talk about mastering for vinyl, but I'm young enough that we skipped those chapters, since vinyl was on its way out in those days. So, I happened to have a library of information that I've never read until recently...
I'm in the process of writing some stuff for my blog about how vinyl recordings work and as part of my digging, I had a quick chat with one of my prof's from the old days... He pointed me to this page
https://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/78rpm_playback_curves
which lists a pretty good compilation of de-emphasis curves, of which RIAA was (obviously) the most popular.
For those of you who are REALLY interested in geeking out on vinyl, "Basic Disc Mastering" by Larry Boden is a good place to start.
https://archive.org/details/BasicDiscMasteringLarryBoden600dpi/mode/2up
cheers-geoff
Sandyb: Indeed, and another way of looking at it is this - why make a speaker capable of higher rates if those higher rates make no difference?
There are advantages and disadvantages of using higher sampling rates - neither of which is terribly simple to explain in a couple of sentences. However, the usual excuses of "temporal resolution" (which is just wrong) and "bandwidth to include inaudible frequencies" (which has been proven repeatedly to be pretty irrelevant)
On the "advantages" side, you have things like the behaviour of high-frequency filters (because the Nyquist frequency is further away), and the simplicity of locking to the native frequency of the incoming signal (which introduces other disadvantages in some use cases). On the "disadvantages" side, you have the performance of low-frequency filters (which can have quantisation in the frequency domain) with higher Q values (which can cause THD problems).
Either way, it's incorrect to assume that higher sampling rates make no difference.