50 Shades of Grey

Hello all,

I am sorting through some stuff and felt like sharing 30 years of design technology with you.

Having these things side by side, it is quite spectacular how well these speakers all go together despite them spanning four decaeds. For the uninitiated It is nearly impossible to discern which design is the oldest and the newest. A remarkable feat of design ingenuity and consistency over the ages.

I can think of no other brand like Bang & Olufsen.

However:

While it remains a sheer delight to behold and listen to these icons of industrial design, I find that it has become increasingly difficult to appraise the brand for the values that have hitherto defined it: namely seamless integration and ease-of-use. Those days, sadly, are long gone.

I don't know, if you agree, but perhaps we could discuss. 

I have been an almost lifelong admirer of B&O, to the point that I consider myself a fanatic, an evangelist, an acolyte. I outright love B&O.   

But I have gradually arrived at a crossroads where I find it difficult to praise the brand unequivocally.

The early nineties for me represent the pinnacle of Bang & Olufsen ingenuity, luxury and superiority. We have come along way from the days when a Masterlink setup just worked once it was setup. While the speakers have likely never been better, B&O are falling short on everything that used to identify the brand. The days of a user-friendly seamless integration that just worked are long gone. Will they ever come back?

A B&O experience today offers little guarantee of a hassle-free music or viewing experience. It has gradually become an inelegant, mangled affair of work-arounds and third-party applications. Things reboot or must be rebooted. Network Link is a long shout away from the simplicity of Masterlink, and it requires an enthusiastic owner to accept that things sometime work and sometimes don't, without any clear-cut answer to why. Timers don't go off, etc. 

One could have hoped that a dedicated effort to boost the software department could have brought everything "back to normal", as it seems that the hardware is state-of-the-art, and user experience today is largely down to software. But just when it couldn't get worse, it now appears that all new products must be activated via a Google account!  Even if there will be no usage of Google services, the devices are dead before you register them with Google. This counts for the Edge, the Stage and the Beosound 1 and 2. Maybe more. Even activating bluetooth is impossible, and key Beolink functions are disabled.

What is the point? Why is a B&O consumer not able to use a premium product that advertises its own sophisticated multiroom technology without enabling that of Google? And if one chooses to opt out of Google, by turning off the microphones on the product, why must your B&O product loudly announce that the microphone is turned off every time you turn it on? And constantly remind you visually with four red dots that serve no purpose? It is, simply put, neither refined nor elegant. Such a shame. 

I could go on, and maybe I will. I could talk of the greatness of the Sonos app and its wide array of sources vis-à-vis the crippling limitations of the B&O app, but. I digress.

The point was actually to share with you these lovely, never-aging steely-grey cousins. It is hard not to be enthusiastic about design.

And at least the design and the sound is still enjoyable, even if the experience has become sub-par.

Happy New Year. May it be a good one for Bang & Olufsen and the rest of us!

-StKong

The Google sign in drives me mad.

My A9 and BS2 are pre-Google sign in versions, but its a massive turn off.

Thankfully I have these two already, and no need to change them for another 5/10 years.

A new BV TV may well require a google sign in, I'm not familiar with webOS enough, and I'd accept it on a BV TV reluctantly, but not for my speakers.

I understand that some want GA, be they younger types or not, but I'm sure there are plenty that dont.

Its a horrible choice that is being foisted upon us.

Sandyb:

The Google sign in drives me mad.

My A9 and BS2 are pre-Google sign in versions, but its a massive turn off.

Thankfully I have these two already, and no need to change them for another 5/10 years.

A new BV TV may well require a google sign in, I'm not familiar with webOS enough, and I'd accept it on a BV TV reluctantly, but not for my speakers.

I understand that some want GA, be they younger types or not, but I'm sure there are plenty that dont.

Its a horrible choice that is being foisted upon us.

I agree completely. Google integration is fine for those who want it, and should be available as an opt-in, just like Airplay, Bluetooth and DNLA. We all have our different use cases.

BUT:

An NL Multiroom user should be able to use the products as B&O products within the B&O ecosystem without hassle or impediments.

I can think of no reason what so ever that legitimises this step. But perhaps B&O have been forced into an unholy alliance. I find it most regrettable and I would consider addressing this issue with the new management. If more people feel the same, it could be done in a coordinated fashion. 

I'm with you, I had thought about communicating my feelings to the company

Happy to help

StKong:

I agree completely. Google integration is fine for those who want it, and should be available as an opt-in, just like Airplay, Bluetooth and DNLA. We all have our different use cases.

BUT:

An NL Multiroom user should be able to use the products as B&O products within the B&O ecosystem without hassle or impediments.

You are sure one can not switch Google off? I do not have the newer GA supported NL devices, but on all NL devices Google is turned off (a setup choice during the first and after a factory setup)  

 

I think the point is relevant to the newer GA enabled devices in the main.

Firstly they require Google sign in, which some dont want or need to do.

Secondly the implementation is such that even if you disable the GA, its still bit visible / clunky, such as the red lights / voice announcement disputation described above.

There may be reasons why Google sign in is required, but I dont see why myself.

The pre-GA speakers were CC capable, but didn't require sing in to set them up, plus the other issues.

Anyway, while they are unlikely to remove GA - I believe it was decided a while ago that the primary control paradigm for B&O speakers would be GA, Alexa, and Siri - though where they are on the latter 2 I dont know.   Just wish that the GA stuff wasn't so in your face, and not mandatory for set up.

 

Carolpa:

StKong:

I agree completely. Google integration is fine for those who want it, and should be available as an opt-in, just like Airplay, Bluetooth and DNLA. We all have our different use cases.

BUT:

An NL Multiroom user should be able to use the products as B&O products within the B&O ecosystem without hassle or impediments.

You are sure one can not switch Google off? I do not have the newer GA supported NL devices, but on all NL devices Google is turned off (a setup choice during the first and after a factory setup)  

 

 

Sandyb:

think the point is relevant to the newer GA enabled devices in the main.

Firstly they require Google sign in, which some dont want or need to do.

Secondly the implementation is such that even if you disable the GA, its still bit visible / clunky, such as the red lights / voice announcement disputation described above.

There may be reasons why Google sign in is required, but I dont see why myself.

Note: my NL devices have no Google active and therefor NOT signed in to Google!

 

Carolpa:

Sandyb:

think the point is relevant to the newer GA enabled devices in the main.

Firstly they require Google sign in, which some dont want or need to do.

Secondly the implementation is such that even if you disable the GA, its still bit visible / clunky, such as the red lights / voice announcement disputation described above.

There may be reasons why Google sign in is required, but I dont see why myself.

Note: my NL devices have no Google active and therefor NOT signed in to Google!

 

The Edge, Stage and Beosound 1 & 2 must be set up via the Google Home App. They will not work otherwise. It is also the case on the A9 mk 4 (perhaps also mk 3). The Bang & Olufsen App identifies the product, then launches the Google Home App as a requirement. The products will not work before they are set up via Google. It is a sine qua non-situation, and in my view it severely detracts from the B&O experience.

In the case of the Beosound 1 - a fine speaker - every time it turns on, a female Google voice very loudly exclaims "By the way, the microphone is turned off". On top of the unit four red dots are constantly lit. They are not a battery indicator or serve any functional purpose. They are there to tell you that you have turned Google voice Assistant off. 

Toggling the Chromecast menu you sent a picture off does not change anything. Google is ever-present. 

 

Strange that such an interface has passed the B&O user experience quality control. 

To draw the Sonos card, Sonos have just launched two identical versions of the same speaker: one with voice control and one without. 

 

StKong:

Hello all,

 

I am sorting through some stuff and felt like sharing 30 years of design technology with you.

 

Having these things side by side, it is quite spectacular how well these speakers all go together despite them spanning four decaeds. For the uninitiated It is nearly impossible to discern which design is the oldest and the newest. A remarkable feat of design ingenuity and consistency over the ages.

 

I can think of no other brand like Bang & Olufsen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On a more positive note: how about that great design! I don't regularly have these different speakers so closely together, but wow! 

Only thing missing in the picture is something from the 00's. Perhaps a Beolab 3, although there's not much aluminium in those.

I love how well it all fits together. Longevity and consistency are wonderful virtues of B&O.

Does not seem like these products HAVE TO be set up through Google Home App. Check the B&O support link below:

https://bogo.custhelp.com/app/answers/answer_view/a_id/1058112/session/L3RpbWUvMTU3NDc1NDUyNy9nZW4vMTU3NDc1NDUyNy9z

I have been on the phone with several retailers. If this is indeed the case, there is still hope.

I will give it a go tomorrow evening and let you know.

AnalogPlanet:

Does not seem like these products HAVE TO be set up through Google Home App. Check the B&O support link below:

https://bogo.custhelp.com/app/answers/answer_view/a_id/1058112/session/L3RpbWUvMTU3NDc1NDUyNy9nZW4vMTU3NDc1NDUyNy9z

AnalogPlanet, thanks for the post. I got up early and have now tried the method outlined in your link. 

Your link is for the Beosound Stage, and I use the Beosound 1 GVA, but I gave it a go.

Airplay and NL can indeed work this way: indeed – the method allows one to setup the product via the B&O App without it launching the Google Home App. 

I can use the speaker as an Airplay and NL device.

But: Just to spoil the enjoyment, there is no bluetooth. I cannot access bluetooth without involving the Google Home App. Additionally, the device is still very much a Google-product: when turning it on, a female Google voice (very loudly) proclaims that the microphone is turned off, and I still see four red dots on top of the product to remind me that I have muted the microphone. The voice is so loud that it literally wakes up the house if I turn the speaker on in the early hours (!).

What I am after is a clean user experience allowing me to use the speaker with no extra luminary or verbal cues reminding me that I have not gone down the Google route. I don't think that I am being unreasonable.

Prior to my coming to this site, three different B&O dealers, incl. the B&O-owned Copenhagen flagship store had told me that there was no way to use the product without registering it with a Google account. Seems they were right, even if there is a work-around (not listed in the manual)  to get the product to work as an Airplay and Nl speaker. There isn't much documentation for the Beosound 1 for non-google users.

It seems there is no Bluetooth for those of us who like to use Bluetooth normally (which means not pairing BT via the Google Home App). A weird executive decision on behalf of B&O, if you ask me.

Any ideas, how BT functionality can be restored to my Beosound 1? Other than a much needed software update?

I include a few screenshots from the online manual.

StKong:

The Edge, Stage and Beosound 1 & 2 must be set up via the Google Home App. They will not work otherwise. It is also the case on the A9 mk 4 (perhaps also mk 3). The Bang & Olufsen App identifies the product, then launches the Google Home App as a requirement. The products will not work before they are set up via Google. It is a sine qua non-situation, and in my view it severely detracts from the B&O experience.

In the case of the Beosound 1 - a fine speaker - every time it turns on, a female Google voice very loudly exclaims "By the way, the microphone is turned off". On top of the unit four red dots are constantly lit. They are not a battery indicator or serve any functional purpose. They are there to tell you that you have turned Google voice Assistant off.

Toggling the Chromecast menu you sent a picture off does not change anything. Google is ever-present.

Strange that such an interface has passed the B&O user experience quality control.

To draw the Sonos card, Sonos have just launched two identical versions of the same speaker: one with voice control and one without.

The stage work fine without google.

https://bogo.custhelp.com/app/answers/answer_view/a_id/1058112/session/L3RpbWUvMTU3NDc1NDUyNy9nZW4vMTU3NDc1NDUyNy9zaWQvZlVzTl9xc0FRMGVGanEzTnNJWmtkMW1Cbnp3SExIQk1fbGVLQzhxSnpBQzFwcER3RGI2RGNSemMzMkVoZklNR1BiZXBxTHhDMVd1RTh4OW40OXVrb2dVWWRmWV9tNnJaaHByQ2VXYlBmWWw2Qm9mU3pYbGY0cVRBJTIxJTIx

Esax:

The stage work fine without google.

https://bogo.custhelp.com/app/answers/answer_view/a_id/1058112/session/L3RpbWUvMTU3NDc1NDUyNy9nZW4vMTU3NDc1NDUyNy9zaWQ

Thanks for pointing out that the Stage can work without Google. On the Beosound 1, the method in your link offers WIFI and skips the Google registration, but as I have stated above in the thread BT still requires the Google App, it talks like Google, shows that the microphone is off, etc.

The official setup guide and video (https://youtu.be/dZhXh_b-t7o) wants Google to connect to WIFI:

CONNECT YOUR BEOSOUND STAGE TO WIFI

The Bang & Olufsen app will send you off to the Google Home App to setup your speaker. Afterwards you will be brought back to the Bang & Olufsen App for the finishing touches.

(https://support.bang-olufsen.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010138100-Connect-your-Beosound-Stage-to-WiFi)

It could be interesting to see if anyone with a Stage can confirm that everything is fully operational without Google?

If it is, there is no reason for B&O to make the Beosound 1's BT depend on Google.

Well I'm sad to hear it didn't really help with your Beosound 1. :( And that this voice is still "announcing" that the mic is turned off...

I will get my Stage installed tomorrow, and will update you once all is done - hopefully without the Google Home App. What gives hope is the fact that the Stage does not have the mic, so... let's see.

Hi StKong, hi alls,

You couldn't have better said my thinking. It's been already discuss but again, I would never invest on a device related to Google or any online service which requires permanent sign-in. I like things to be stand-alone, able to work by themselves without any account or mandatory smartphone App or whatever else. Things are moving fast in this world and one day or the other, the server/service/app editor/os version is suddenly not supported anymore and you find yourself like with a perfectly working Beovision but without remote! Plus all the datelining stuff I hate and find invasive.

Thats one of the reason why my setup rely almost entirely on old stuff, pre-google account dependance, and which should work until the power supply blow off. So far I see no or little inconvenience with this solution: cheaper, reliable, standalone, flexible; but its also work for me and for my way of listening to music and maybe not for everyone…

Anyway, I would also add some comments:

StKong:

I have been an almost lifelong admirer of B&O, to the point that I consider myself a fanatic, an evangelist, an acolyte. I outright love B&O. But I have gradually arrived at a crossroads where I find it difficult to praise the brand unequivocally.

For any "passions" I have had which have lead me to forums or followers group etc… This feeling has always been quite common and the older your love for the brand is, the bitter is the feeling: B&O, Apple, car brands, watch brands… I'm not saying it means nothing, but brands may be aware of that cycle and one way or another, not care too much.

matador43:

You couldn't have better said my thinking. It's been already discuss but again, I would never invest on a device related to Google or any online service which requires permanent sign-in. I like things to be stand-alone, able to work by themselves without any account or mandatory smartphone App or whatever else. Things are moving fast in this world and one day or the other, the server/service/app editor/os version is suddenly not supported anymore and you find yourself like with a perfectly working Beovision but without remote! Plus all the datelining stuff I hate and find invasive.

I am intrigued by the executive decision process steering the company so decisively towards Google.

Especially when I read the below passage  in the Beosound 1 online manual: 

"Use Multiroom to seamlessly connect your different wireless speakers into one system. 
Control speakers in tandam or individually with our integrated platforms, Apple AirPlay or Chromecast.

For older speakers, please use Beolink Multiroom. This can be accessed in your settings." 

(https://support.bang-olufsen.com/hc/en-us/articles/360009206534-Multiroom)

With B&O labelling their own Beolink Multiroom a technology "for older speakers", could this be a hint that the proprietary B&O Multiroom is nearing the end of its life?  One can always speculate as to why a company from a communications perspective would choose such a wording.

matador43:

For any "passions" I have had which have lead me to forums or followers group etc… This feeling has always been quite common and the older your love for the brand is, the bitter is the feeling: B&O, Apple, car brands, watch brands… I'm not saying it means nothing, but brands may be aware of that cycle and one way or another, not care too much.

Perhaps you are right. I read it a little differently; B&O used to be all about longevity of products, seamless integration and first and foremost a refined, elegant and intuitive user experience. Now products are scrapped as obsolete a few years arter their introduction: Beosound 5, Beosound Moment, Beosound Essence, Beosound 35 to mention a few. Especially the music systems seem to be particularly short-lived and must cost a fortune to develop, and probably have hardly covered their development costs in earnings. Additionally as a consumer, I would feel cheated by buying a premium system only to see it scrapped and unsupported a few years later. Other companies, sure, but this Is B&O.

I think that those of us who are old enough to know how the brand's products used to perform find it difficult to (and surely there are several iterations of brand loyalty here depending on when people caught the beovirus). I wonder if there is an entire group of people catching the virus today.
The younger generation is used to products going an extra mile.  

Let's take the Beosound 1 New York edition:

The power cable that comes with it is a cheap, shiny black cable with a large obtrusive label saying Made in China. It doesn't exactly scream 'PREMIUM'.

To compare, I looked at the Apple Airport Express, which has a nice, soft to touch white cable. One has to go no further than the new IKEA Symfonisk speakers to find nice colour-matched, cloth-covered cables. At more than 15 times the price, I am sure there would be a sufficient margin for B&O to spend half a dollar more on each cable. Also the "manual", is an uninformative, flimsy folded brochure. The product itself may be premium, but little care (if any) has been afforded to how it presents itself at first glance. The cord of a Beoplay M3 is colour-matched and of a nicer quality than that of the BS1. Somebody is not taking the necessary care to uphold the premium experience. 

matador43:

Maybe the GA implementation comes from a "market demand". When you see how it as been done (aren't those four 80's red led so ugly when B&O is able to usually use little shinny white dots everywhere?). Young generation "wants" this feature and they have not the same relationship with Online services the middle to old generation may have.

I'm not a fan of the four red dots. In fact I have become extremely adverse to them. A user on this forum has told me that they also appear on the new A9 shining through the cloth right at you at all times(!). My Beolab 17s have a diode under the speaker cloth which gives off a light when necessary, but it goes away when no longer needed. That is premium. 

As per the discussions of the GVA feature being added by popular demand: I am all for it, as long as I can properly turn it off as well. Something for everybody. Noone should have 3rd-party features forced upon them.

A final suggestion to B&O would be to prioritize "Consistency" and "Care".Things are too random at present.

If care is not taken to create products that exert a consistent sense of quality throug-and-through, B&O will hardly attract a new generation of brand-loyalists.