ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi
I have a rather simple question about Beogram. This might be relevant to any turntable and not just Beogram:
I have a Brogram 5500 and MMC4 and weight is adjusted to 1.1-1.2. It plays well and all frequencies seem to be just fine. No skipping etc. I have cleaned the stylus tip and my record are reasonably clean (tried new records too). I can still here some level of scratchyness in the sound. Maybe not much but I wonder how much is acceptable? for example playing Metallica Unforgiven during the intro guitar which is acoustic I can heat the scratches at mid volume and barely hear them when the level goes up and songs becomes heavier.
So do you guys have any advice? those of you who have the same system in best condition, do you ear some scratchy sound at all?
Many thanks for your help.
Arta
Hi Arta,
Firstly, the level of snap,cracle pop that's acceptable is not an easy question- as they say in the classics, how long is a piece of string ? Whatever you can tolerate is acceptable.
More often than not ,it's not the turntable itself causing the static ,but the stylus/ cartridge doing it's job and picking up scratches, dust and imperfections in the record.
The reason that a new record can also have the snap crackle pop, is that even on the first play,the stylus will be picking up the residues left behind by the pressing process of the vinyl.
So, the "noise " can be found on any turntable not just a Beogram.
My tolerance to static is very low-so I have spent years trying to eliminate as much as I can on my records.
This involved the purchase of a record cleaning machine ,and cleaning fluid to suit.
Also applying LAST Record Preservative has not only tempered the static ,but removes the 2nd Harmonic distortion- with the end result being a substantial increase in clarity.
Hope this helps
Noel.
Hi Noel,
Thanks a lot for your very helpful answer - much appreciated.
Re LAST, I did a little bit of search and apparently it reduces the surface energy like making the surface more hydrophobic(?). I remember when I tried to clean a record with water or IPA, it had lots of static right after the cleaning but that went away after few hours. Of course washing with detergent and water (or IPA) increases surface energy and that is the opposite of what LAST does I think. If I know more about this LAST thingy, I might be able to find a much cheaper alternative for it.
Best,
I do as Noel, except for the LAST thingy, but I use these for all my records, paper and cheap plastic sleeves gives static and the paper sleeves leaves paper dust on the records
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Welcome to the exciting but frustrating world of snap,crackle and pop .
My journey started 39 years ago (I'm 64) when I bought my first Bang and Olufsen Turntable and Receiver. I was blown away by the performance and design. But it did also highlight the negatives- that is snap,crackle and pop. So the search started and I tried a few "record treatments" to little effect.
Then, along came LAST Record Preservative.It's not a cleaner, lubricant or anti-static agent-it was designed simply to make our records "LAST". (One application lasts 200 plays.) However ,numerous writers have made the point that "LAST" produces audible benefits far beyond it's original purpose as a preservative..
The 30 -second treatment bonds to the groove walls to a depth of 10 molecules which has the effect of reducing the "surface free energy" of the vinyl. What this means is that reducing the surface free energy of a substance increases it's stability and therefore its resistance to change.
It isn't cheap ($75 AUS.) for a two ounce bottle,but it's worth it .( And here I make the disclaimer that I'm not on commission from the LAST factory!)
A couple of years ago , I tried finding a cheaper alternative. I contacted a couple of manufacturers
in China , to see if they could copy the formulation- they couldn't .
Regards
Many thanks for the extra info - really helpful. Wow! that is a long experience!
Well like you explained, this LAST liquid apparently treats the vinyl material to become more hydrophobic (reducing surface energy). I believe vinyl is already more or less hydrophobic as the water drops sit on it and don't perfectly wet it, however, it is not perfectly hydrophobic. I don't know LAST formulation, what I know is that there are other stuff like HMDS that stick to dangling (polar) bonds of a surface and the other side of these modules is extremely hydrophobic so they decrease the surface energy as seen from increased water angle on such surfaces. I have used it by spin coating to make glass substrates more hydrophobic.
The other thing might be the requirement of something rather conductive like a conductive polymer to get rid of static. (I am a physicists working on conductive polymers for solar cells by the way)
The other requirement I imagine is the safety of use and MSDS. We cannot use any chemical - it must be safe to use without need of a chem lab.
Perhaps, I can come up with some sort of formulation after some try and error and share the results. Expert and experience people's opinion will be very helpful.
Cheers,
You seem enthusiastic to discover more about LAST.
I have 10 pages of info and reviews dating back to 1981 if you're interested.( Too much info.to post on here.)
Be prepared for a journey into why we have record wear and noise ,and how LAST addresses these problems. ( There's some great pictures from a Scanning Electron Microscope which show quite clearly the difference in vinyl condition between treated and un-treated)
regards
P.S. My e-mail address is : youngn@ncable.net.au if you want to send me your address so I can post the articles to you.
I tried posting more info.for you- but the administrator has configured the site not to allow duplicate posts.
You can e-mail me on : youngn@ncable.net.au.
Noel
cheers Noel. will do
Hi Arvan,
Long time no speak!
Just wondering if you've come up with an alternative solution to LAST?
Hi Arvind,
Just wondering if you came up with an alternative to LAST?