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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello everybody,
Well, I've replaced the c2103 capacitor, with the right one (47ùf..) when my cd unit begins to spin, rattle and then stop.
It was nice to play cd again, when another thing happens, the cd start well, the '"number of songs" appears, the first one play, the other one, then the cd stop and switch off the unit !!!!
of course, if someone could help, it will be really appreciated...
thanks
jean louis
I think it should be 33uF?
Ask Graham (joeyboygolf) , he's the expert on these machines
Brengen & Ophalen
47uF should be fine. It's the filtering charateristics that is important which also makes the circuit ask for acertain brand/type of capacitor. The original is a blue axial Philips and that's what I would recommend, they work everytime.Don't expect any other brand/type to function correctly.
Replace the remaining caps on the servo board while you are at it.It will provide less supply ripple and less signal jitter.
Martin
33µF was the original value of C2103 but in the old forum Martin (DieBogener) mentioned that he also had success with a blue 47µF.
And i had success with a blue 68µF Capacitor ( Original Philips) which i had when i needed a replacement for the C2103 in my Beogram CD6500.
The capacitor has to be a blue Philips / Vishay with at least 33µF / 16V but it can be replaced with a bigger one 47µF for example as long as it is the 'famous' Philips type. Bigger values often enables the playback of CD-R's.
Greetings RaMaBo
Ralph-Marcus
Ah, I think Graham mentioned that also! Good to know! Very coincidence but this evening I replaced the C2103 on my BC9500 and it runs smoothly! Only the cassette belt needs to be replaced and I ordered 3 to get the other units fixed.
To Leslie, Martin or any Beo Samaritan,
I have similar problems with my Beocenter 9000, type 2501.
The CD player reads fine a few discs as far as I open the lid and before playing them, but refuses to read a large majority of them.
The cassette belts need to be replaced.
The mute relays to the main speakers are certainly dead since the auxiliary outputs are working fine but there is no sound out of the main ones.
Radio works fine :)
A lot of problems, but it is my beloved fisrt Beomaster, bought in 1987 and I want to save it.
In addition, it is the only part of my system to which I can hook my Beogram 6006 (still working except the arm which often stays "stuck" in the upper position... help needed too BTW).
To anyone who has the knowledge and the will to help me, I would be very happy to buy the complete set of capacitors for the CD, belts for the tape player and the mute relays.
Leslie, if you still have the service manual of Beocenter 9000 (type 2501) and Beogram 6006 (type 5625), I'm interested in buying them. Can you make me an offer through PM?
Kind regards to all of you...... and best wishes for 2013!
Yann.
Living Room BV Eclipse - BS Core - BL5 - BL8000 - LC2 x2 - Beo6
Lounge Beolink Passive - Cabasse Clipper - Beo4 Kitchen BL3500 - Beolink 1000
Bedroom BV9 - BL6000 (Thks Botty) - Beotime - LC2 - Beo5
Garden Lounge BC9000 - BG 6006 - BL4500 (Thks Botty) - Playmaker - Beolink 1000
Study BS1 - ML/NL Converter - BL2500 - Beo4 - Form 2 (Tks Botty) - Beoplay P2
PM on it's way
YannChris: To Leslie, Martin or any Beo Samaritan, I have similar problems with my Beocenter 9000, type 2501. The CD player reads fine a few discs as far as I open the lid and before playing them, but refuses to read a large majority of them. The cassette belts need to be replaced. The mute relays to the main speakers are certainly dead since the auxiliary outputs are working fine but there is no sound out of the main ones. Radio works fine :) A lot of problems, but it is my beloved fisrt Beomaster, bought in 1987 and I want to save it. In addition, it is the only part of my system to which I can hook my Beogram 6006 (still working except the arm which often stays "stuck" in the upper position... help needed too BTW). To anyone who has the knowledge and the will to help me, I would be very happy to buy the complete set of capacitors for the CD, belts for the tape player and the mute relays. Leslie, if you still have the service manual of Beocenter 9000 (type 2501) and Beogram 6006 (type 5625), I'm interested in buying them. Can you make me an offer through PM? Kind regards to all of you...... and best wishes for 2013! Yann.
Pretty much same stuff I have doing lately.... here
blah-blah and photographs as needed
Dillen: 47uF should be fine. It's the filtering charateristics that is important which also makes the circuit ask for acertain brand/type of capacitor. The original is a blue axial Philips and that's what I would recommend, they work everytime.Don't expect any other brand/type to function correctly. Replace the remaining caps on the servo board while you are at it.It will provide less supply ripple and less signal jitter. Martin
Does someone have a list of these? (for ordering)
//Bo.A long list...
Kits are readily available, slightly different to match the various deck types fitted.Drop me an email.
Bos00: Dillen: 47uF should be fine. It's the filtering charateristics that is important which also makes the circuit ask for acertain brand/type of capacitor. The original is a blue axial Philips and that's what I would recommend, they work everytime.Don't expect any other brand/type to function correctly. Replace the remaining caps on the servo board while you are at it.It will provide less supply ripple and less signal jitter. Martin Does someone have a list of these? (for ordering)
Dillen can provide a kit containing the correct caps for the job. I suggest that you make contact with him though this website.
Regards Graham
Paging Dillen
Martin, you have PM.
Regards,
Right here.You have a PM answer.
Well, thanks Dillen for the right kit. As I told you, I've changed all the caps of the kit, but something still goes wrong.
When i tested it, the number of song in the upper display was right here, but nothing appears in the down display, where you have the 0 to 9 number, and the index light on...the cd don't seem to start, and after a while, unit switch off again. and now, nothing light on, neither in the upper or down display...
i've changed all the caps of the pcb 31, still nothing...But the crazy thing is that I try the pcb31 with the cd unit on my second 9500 (in poor condition, no k7...) AND this little boy play all the cd I gave him !!!!
do you think a bad ghost or something is in my beloved beocenter.
poor me....
Dear Members, i know, this is and old thread, but as long as it can be found via Google easily, i have to clarify this.
These axial Philips capacitors are long gone out from production and nothing is the same or even similar with later Vishay/BC branded ones. These Phiilips capacitors are well known for failing in everywhere, especially if some (far from lot!) heat or impulsive loads are present. While japanese old brands still can be usable after all these years, Philips aren't. They were superior caps-till they were knew, but now they are goner. And NOS (new old stock) ones aren't an exception, they are getting deteriorated after such a long storage.
However. There is nothing very special in this position like C2103 to stick with certain manufacturer's certain product. It must have low ESR and high ripple capability to stand out and thus, any well known brand's well suited low ESR series should do the job. What you have to avoid is the el cheapo lesser quality mades and no, general purpose ones won't do the job well, or not do it for long time. I prefer Panasonic FC in this position, but Nichicon PW should be fine just like Nippon or Rubycon low ESR/high ripple series.
And never forget to replace all other Philipses in control PCB, they will surely fail.
What nobody else told here-check especially the regulators solderings (near the heat sink) and resoldering all the ICs are well recommended (avoid extreme heat stress, do it with caution!). These older Philips boards are full of weak or broken solder joints.
didyman: There is nothing very special in this position like C2103 to stick with certain manufacturer's certain product. It must have low ESR and high ripple capability to stand out and thus, any well known brand's well suited low ESR series should do the job. What you have to avoid is the el cheapo lesser quality mades and no, general purpose ones won't do the job well, or not do it for long time. I prefer Panasonic FC in this position, but Nichicon PW should be fine just like Nippon or Rubycon low ESR/high ripple series.
There is nothing very special in this position like C2103 to stick with certain manufacturer's certain product. It must have low ESR and high ripple capability to stand out and thus, any well known brand's well suited low ESR series should do the job. What you have to avoid is the el cheapo lesser quality mades and no, general purpose ones won't do the job well, or not do it for long time. I prefer Panasonic FC in this position, but Nichicon PW should be fine just like Nippon or Rubycon low ESR/high ripple series.
That's not my experience.Some other brands may work, I even found a cheap chinese one that worked, but unless a Philips/BC, they will wear out fast.I agree that the circuit looks nothing special, but there's more to this capacitor than meets the eye, and there's a reason this capis the only one of its type on the board - and it has nothing to do with low-ESR as such.Read more here: https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/35846/266550.aspx
Dillen: didyman: There is nothing very special in this position like C2103 to stick with certain manufacturer's certain product. It must have low ESR and high ripple capability to stand out and thus, any well known brand's well suited low ESR series should do the job. What you have to avoid is the el cheapo lesser quality mades and no, general purpose ones won't do the job well, or not do it for long time. I prefer Panasonic FC in this position, but Nichicon PW should be fine just like Nippon or Rubycon low ESR/high ripple series. That's not my experience.Some other brands may work, I even found a cheap chinese one that worked, but unless a Philips/BC, they will wear out fast.I agree that the circuit looks nothing special, but there's more to this capacitor than meets the eye, and there's a reason this capis the only one of its type on the board - and it has nothing to do with low-ESR as such.Read more here: https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/35846/266550.aspx Martin
I cannot understand why the so called "experts" will not just accept that there is something special about the blue Philips/Vishay capacitor that nobody understands.
I agree 100% with Martin as, like him, I have tried many other makes where some examples appear to work but other examples of the same batch don't. Or, all work for a few days or weeks and then fail.
There is a reason that the original designer of the board chose that particular capacitor, in that particular position, that that none of you understands. Moreover, we will probably never know because he is probably long since dead!
Just accept it maybe because it's blue!?!?
Martin, it's indeed a very interesting topic, thank You!
Joey, let me make you understand. I'm not a so-called expert as you told. You know, experience is a such thing that builds up upon time and tailored by continously learning and experiencing New things. I have repaired a number of these units, since 2001, when i got my first one of these Philips kits. Maybe i had luck, maybe i always chose something fit ok, and since Martin was só kind and pointed me in a different approach, i can accept it. But as long as someone tries to Tell me blue Philips capacitor instead of its exact tyoe number, please, let me consider it..
So no need to argue here.
I don't think Grahams comment was aimed specifically towards you, but rather in general.You are far from the first member unable to see anything special about this capacitor, so we have had thissubject up many times.I don't see anything special either. Neither in the schematics, nor on the scope, but after doing hundreds of thesedrives through decades, what works and for how long becomes very clear.I remember Anthony Garza and I discussing the issue decades ago, when he found the first dead C2103s but couldn'tprove them defect in any way.Neither of us could explain it, we just had to accept it.
We have a somewhat similar issue with the tuning prescaler IC in Beomaster 6000.The original TFK U264B (now long out of production) is the only one guaranteed to work.Occasionally the newer incarnations of the IC will work - but it's not a guaranteed fix and it typically won't work for long, despite it being a "direct factory replacement". After some time they typically start "rolling numbers" and eventually stops working altogether.The original (old stock) Telefunken IC works every time.Why? I cannot say, but there must be a significant difference between the original and the newer versions.(To prevent this issue I recommend you rearrange the very nearby and warm running voltage regulator away from the prescaler in Beomaster 6000, which is what I believe kills this already hard-working 8-pin IC).
I know about capacitors at least some, since the dawn of capacitor plague. Formulas of electrolytes are well kept secrets, just like the construction of electrodes and dielectric. As switch mode PSUs getting more common and their frequency is rising a lot, stability is a number one concern, so ringing is a thing that best to be avoided to a degree. The same holds true for audio application. Since low ESR caps are aimed to high ripple and high frequency, that may be a cross-hit with what this CDM needs. Also, semiconductors are getting older and more picky-diffusion never stops, just gets slower. If that TDA would have needed a specific capacitor, the datasheet should have taken a note about it, since Philips sells those to OEMs and proper application notes are a must. And axial construction have another benefit-the capacitor is absolutely shielded. Radial caps doesn't have that shield connected to one reference point of their electrodes, so that also may make a difference.
I"m just figuring-just like others what should be a reason. My oldest-first CDM2 runs with Yageo SX or SC, the time around i was able to source those (i can't remember, the CD isn't opened for service since) and since, a few thousand hours surely hit it and none of the rest have came back for repair (in the meantime i switched to Panasonic FC). but i will take note about this, perhaps do some tests if i will have time.
The current Beo 9500 i got have all of its Philips caps ruined. The 2103 is 25 uF with 8 ohm ESR and 8 % Vloss, wich is unacceptable for me. All 47 uF ones near the supply legs of logic ICs are around 12-15 uF and ESR is 20-50 Ohm, while a small 2,2 uF in the MPU reset stage showed 700 nF and 140 Ohm ESR. And guess what-the CD worked without a problem. :-) Just i had to disassemble and repair tapedeck, so i did the usual CDM work and power supply revision, as usual.
The old IC vs newer ones problems are well known for me. Sources of very old transistors simply can't be put near to their todays pairs. Much different ft, much different sound much stable operation. Basic parameters are all the same, just technology differs in some point.