ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
We've established from a recent thread that I'm a skinflint with an eye for a bargain. What got me looking at B&O kit to start with was that I wanted a record deck, and the tangential ones made me act like an excited schoolboy. So, now I've bought a Beocentre and speakers, but I can see scooping a tangential table for cheapness won't be easy. I've bought a Beogram 1202 which comes with two cartridges and hopefully only needs a belt, but I can tell that if I'm patient enough, I'll find a tangential I can afford. Trouble is, it'll most likely come without a cartridge, and if it has one, well, that'll wear out. What are my options, really? All I can find is buying a used one on eBay, which will most likely not be cheap, and certainly be risky, or a Soundsmith cartridge for, frankly, more than the total I'll have spent on all the rest of my kit. I read a reference to a German company whose name I'll essay at with.....no I won't, I'm just going to get it wrong, but it's apparently run by someone called Axel. I couldn't find their site; does anyone know what they charge for a retip? And are there other options I'm missing? If there's basically no option much cheaper than £200, then I might be smart to stick with the 1202, with it's replaceable stylus.....
Got lots of those Beograms tangential players and MMC's.
PM me if you're interested? Where you from?
Brengen & Ophalen
Location, location, location.
You may very well have a potential 1202 buyer...
Beo4 'til I die!
His name is Axel Schürholz, and his workmanship is very good. He has restorated six of my B&O cartridges with great success. His cheapest option is at €99.-, which is a very good MMC4-spec cantilever/diamond. A step up the latter, there is the €159.- which is with a contact line diamond, very much like the MMC2 (my favourite) does have a more delicate sound to it, I love it.
The next is the Shibata at €179.- which I also like for a much more delicate bass reproduction and mid-response, but I don't like the low treble response which is inherent in the Shibata shape.
His webpage is http://schallplattennadeln.de/ Send him a mail if in doubt, he is a very nice person.
Vinyl records, cassettes, open reel, valve amplifiers and film photography.
Sam it is a bit of a myth to think that spending more on the cart than your gear is wrong. It is the sole reason B&O decks are soooo cheap IMO. If it were such that you could fit any cart I think they would command much higher prices! Go for the Axel option, you will not be disappointed :)
Olly
Well, if 100 euro for a rebuild exists, then I'm in. It was the Soundsmith prices that put me off. I'm in Southampton, UK.
Step1: Sam it is a bit of a myth to think that spending more on the cart than your gear is wrong. It is the sole reason B&O decks are soooo cheap IMO. If it were such that you could fit any cart I think they would command much higher prices! Go for the Axel option, you will not be disappointed :)
I suppose the important point here is not that I think it's wrong to pay more for the cart, it's about what I can afford to spend (or at least, am prepared to spend) full stop, and the fact that the cart is a consumable that I'm going to have to pay for more than once. If the total package price is £300, then if the performance was the same, I'd rather have a £200 unit with a £100 consumable, rather than a £50 unit with a £250 consumable, because that consumable price is going to repeat on me. I'm not really an audiophile; I love music and I have a lot of it, but I started this journey just wanting to put together a system that gave me decent listening, not to reach nirvana. What drew me to B&O was my love of nice design, (and it's that about the tangentials; what a great idea, you know?), and also the appeal of being able to own something which I could never have afforded new. The bottom line is that I'm never going to spend £1000 on a piece of audio, and that £200 for a record deck is *really* pushing the envelope. I've bought the 1202 for £26, and if all it needs is a belt, then there's part of me that says I should just forget about a tangential deck, but they *are* nice......
My advice, for what it's worth, is if you don't want to pay for a decent tangential and a rebuilt stylus/cartridge then don't bother. You will undoubtedly buy a pup.
I buy and sell tangentials professionally and I have bought enough pups to enter them in an ugly dogs show!
Radial decks don't come much prettier than the 1202 so get a belt from Dillen, give the deck drop of sewing machine oil in the correct places and see how it sounds. If necessary, get the stylus refurbed by Axel and sit back and appreciate the music.
Deck for £26, belt for £20 or so, refurb from Axel for £90, job done!
Regards Graham
So, I weighed up all these things, and picked up at Beogram 3000 for £77, which includes a cart that needs a retip. Apparently it runs both speeds, the arm tracks raises and lowers correctly, so hopefully it's ONLY that which needs doing! I think I'm going to hang on to the 1202 as well; it just looks too cool not to. Perhaps in time I'll hunt out a Beocentre 1200, and set up an alternative vinyl listening station in another room.
You could always hope for a spot of good luck. I managed to get a Beogram 8002 W/MMC3 for $20. Guy did not know what he was getting rid of. Spend a couple of hours and maybe $80 on it. (Caps/Belt) It in great but not perfect shape but it sounds almost perfect and will after the cap swap.
I'm looking forward to see what turns up. There's no way I can pick up the 3000, so I'm relying on the seller doing a good packing job
This could all end in tears!!!
It could, but maybe it won't, and then what? It's a risk, but you know what? There's not much to lose. At the very worst, it's a complete crock (or is after shipping), and I'm out £77. That'd hurt, but it's not the end of the world. At best, I've bought a completely working TT for £77, and just need to save up for the retip. There's no available disaster scenario, so the tears would be short and not too bitter, and then I can turn the platter into one of those fancy clocks I'm a terrible one for rolling the dice.
Just had a moment of clarity; my return journey from Norwich in a couple of weeks time will take me 30 miles from the seller's door. I can pick up the TT, and a) avoid the tender mercies of the Royal Mail, and b) ensure that it meets his description, and tell him to sling his hook if it doesn't. I'm picking up my 1202 on that trip as well, it'll be turntabletastic!
My son collects every deck we buy after our experiences with so called packaging.
One deck was wrapped in the sports page........and nothing else! In another, the platter had lifted off the centre and sliced both arms off at the carriage!
One wrap of small bubble seems to be the norm and no internal packing with the platter left in place. They seem to think that tightening one of the transit screws must be adequate.
Wankers!!
So here's where you can help me out; what would you recommend I do with each of these decks to protect them in the back of my car (actually a tiny van - a Daihatsu Hijet.) I habitually wrap more delicate things in sleeping bags to cushion them and keep them still, but it seems like there's probably a good few more steps I'd need to take here, right?
SamWise72: So here's where you can help me out; what would you recommend I do with each of these decks to protect them in the back of my car (actually a tiny van - a Daihatsu Hijet.) I habitually wrap more delicate things in sleeping bags to cushion them and keep them still, but it seems like there's probably a good few more steps I'd need to take here, right?
In the back of a van you need to take the platter off and store it in the sleeping bag or similar.
Tighten all 3 transit screws.
Place a piece of sponge/ rolled up bubble wrap/ piece of polystyrene packing under both arms to prevent the arms bouncing around.
Sit the deck on padding such as sleeping bag.
That should be adequate if you are not going to turn the deck upside down!
Thanks Graham. Where are the packing screws found, and are they obvious? And I assume all the same applied to the 1202, except for the word "both"in regard to arms?
SamWise72: Thanks Graham. Where are the packing screws found, and are they obvious? And I assume all the same applied to the 1202, except for the word "both"in regard to arms?
Sorry, I don't know much about radial decks having only ever thrown them in the skip!!
I am a tangential man.
The transit screws are to be found underneath and there are three of them.
Don't turn the deck over, slide each side over the edge of a worktop or table and tighten each one in turn.
So......the seller of the BG3000 has not responded to any messages suggesting pickup times, or asking any other questions. It's been 6 days now, so I'm giving him til I need to go out this afternoon, and then I'm opening a dispute. I half expect it to turn up through the post, even though I asked for local pickup, and if so, I hope it's well packed. Would you really sell something like that and then not check your email?
Better news. It appears the seller switched to a Mac, and none of his replies to eBay messages were getting through. He hadn't entrusted the deck to Royal Mail, and pickup is arranged. Also, it does have a cartridge, only with a worn stylus, so I can get it sorted by Axel. Looking forward to meeting it, and assessing whether that's all it needs.
Sorry Evan, I think I'm gonna keep the 1202.
SamWise72: Sorry Evan, I think I'm gonna keep the 1202.
Shoot. Well enjoy it, those decks are brilliant!