ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Had time to check my P45s yesterday.
The speakers has never been opened since they left the factory, the drivers was like glued in, the back even so, with all gaskets in place.
Numbers
backside, needs cleaning
Front, needs new cloth, on the other speaker the P45 sign is missing (Martin maybe has one??)
Front plate, all 4 drivers moves freely
Fret back, press wood looks like new
No loose magnets, all 4 drivers OK
The other driver
Crossover, looks like original, no repairs done.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Dom
2x BeoSystem 3, BeoSystem 5000, BeoSystem 6500, 2x BeoMaster 7000, 2 pair of BeoLab Penta mk2, AV 7000, Beolab 4000, BeoSound 4000, Playmaker, BeoLab 2500, S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-50, C-75, 3x CX-100, 3x MCL2 link rooms, 3x Beolab 2000, M3, P2, Earset, A8 earphones, A3, 2x 4001 relay, H3, H3 ANC, H6, 2014 Audi S5 with B&O sound, and ambio
DMacri:Great news - I'm glad they made it to you ok.
I was nervous about the magnets, but they are OK, the glue used must be different for different series, or it has to do with where the speakers were stored or used.
Do elemens back plate have small sticker dot on middle? All 4 a like?
blah-blah and photographs as needed
Orava: Do elemens back plate have small sticker dot on middle? All 4 a like?
Orava, As I dont have the space here to work, (still visiting in McAllen) I assembled the speakers again. I will check when I´m back in Mexico-
Søren Mexico: Orava: Do elemens back plate have small sticker dot on middle? All 4 a like? Orava, As I dont have the space here to work, (still visiting in McAllen) I assembled the speakers again. I will check when I´m back in Mexico-
Those with dot were, or looked like older series, prehaps.... And weaker gluing. Others without dot had clearly more glue when looked down to airgap.
Orava: Søren Mexico: Orava: Do elemens back plate have small sticker dot on middle? All 4 a like? Orava, As I dont have the space here to work, (still visiting in McAllen) I assembled the speakers again. I will check when I´m back in Mexico- Those with dot were, or looked like older series, prehaps.... And weaker gluing. Others without dot had clearly more glue when looked down to airgap.
I hope you were able to at least glue the magnets. I will light another candle and rub the Bhudas belly for your trip back to Mexico.
Anymore after being stung by the faoled magnets a couple of times I now make it standard proceedure to re glue all the driver on any vintage set of Beovox speakers. Might be a bit of over kill but it makes me feel better.
eugene1960: Might be a bit of over kill but it makes me feel better.
Might be a bit of over kill but it makes me feel better.
And as everyone knows, if you feel better, the loudspeaker sounds better.
Unglued P45's take no prisoners, your a lucky man!
As for mine, three of four locked drivers received Orava's magic touch... a real champion!
Now on the wall they look beautiful and sound... well, they sound like a new project is about to begin in the form of a beomaster 2400-2 restoration
The drivers apparently survived the 1100 Km drive down to Mexico city, packed in 4 layers of bobble plastic and two door mats in the trunk of a Honda Accord, (thank you Honda for soft suspension).
I will test the speakers with my BM 2400 this weekend, and then change the caps in the crossovers, if time allows, do the wood and the frets.
I did change cap on one of my S45's, other I didn't, frankly I didn't hear Any difference between old and new... Maybe my ears aren't "Hi-Fi"
Orava: I did change cap on one of my S45's, other I didn't, frankly I didn't hear Any difference between old and new... Maybe my ears aren't "Hi-Fi"
Same here Orava, no difference, even with expensive caps I heard no difference, but the caps are old, new ones cheap, and with the speakers open why not change them.
@Orava: I promised you pics from the drivers, all 4 are the same, all 4 no brand names.
And thank you to Eugene for lighting a candle for Buddha, that and my prayers to my Gods helped a lot to get the speakers down here without damage.
Spider
The mid range
Søren Mexico: Orava: I did change cap on one of my S45's, other I didn't, frankly I didn't hear Any difference between old and new... Maybe my ears aren't "Hi-Fi" Same here Orava, no difference, even with expensive caps I heard no difference, but the caps are old, new ones cheap, and with the speakers open why not change them.
Yes, good point, why not change. I was maybe little tried for that project, and didnt bother to open other speaker ones again to change caps. After all the old ones I measured were very nicely in their tolerances. Maybe someday...
Started yesterday on my P45s, got one wood frame finished, the other one I had to glue in one corner, the steel frames for the grills was also partially loose, so they got some glue too.
See the difference
Steel frames glued
Couldn't do much today, the FS bought a new mini carry around music recorder from the fruit company, and of course I had to provide setup and music files.
So I could only finish the 2nd wood frame and the grills, here a pic with the grill loosely in the frame, the grill fabric is actually black, but somehow it came out sort of gray in the pic.
Looking good!
//Bo.A long list...
Below is an M70 tweeter. Looks the same. I don't have my notes here at work to tell you the make and model of the M70 tweeter, but if it is the same as your P45, I have spares if you may ever need one.
Awesome - glad to know the drivers made it to their new home.
eugene1960: Awesome - glad to know the drivers made it to their new home.
Buddha and your candles was a big help
Søren Mexico: eugene1960: Awesome - glad to know the drivers made it to their new home. Buddha and your candles was a big help
I bet - no I guarantee they will add new sound and dimension to your Beomaster 4000 and 2400. I know the S45 from the 70's sure work well with those two receivers.
Rich: Below is an M70 tweeter. Looks the same. I don't have my notes here at work to tell you the make and model of the M70 tweeter, but if it is the same as your P45, I have spares if you may ever need one.
Here is one of mine
The Dickster:I bet - no I guarantee they will add new sound and dimension to your Beomaster 4000 and 2400. I know the S45 from the 70's sure work well with those two receivers.
I tested today with my BM 2400, they are much more detailed than my S 45s (2 way), and brighter highs and a little boomier bass, than my 3702, this tested with the speakers standing on the floor close to a wall, tuned to diff. FM stations. and new caps in the crossovers, it may sound better if hanging on a wall. Will try to test with my BM 4000, but the FS has a party planned for tomorrow, and forbid me changing anything in the living and dining room.
Here the finished result, I drove them for 3 hours, from low to high volume, no funny sounds what so ever, and the drivers stays glued. The grills are glued to the frame at 6 small points
The Dickster: Søren Mexico: eugene1960: Awesome - glad to know the drivers made it to their new home. Buddha and your candles was a big help I bet - no I guarantee they will add new sound and dimension to your Beomaster 4000 and 2400. I know the S45 from the 70's sure work well with those two receivers.
I see you have changed, not only avatar (beautiful art), but also screen name, any special reason, or just because you are growing sideways (Dickster)
Søren Mexico: The Dickster: Søren Mexico: eugene1960: Awesome - glad to know the drivers made it to their new home. Buddha and your candles was a big help I bet - no I guarantee they will add new sound and dimension to your Beomaster 4000 and 2400. I know the S45 from the 70's sure work well with those two receivers. I see you have changed, not only avatar (beautiful art), but also screen name, any special reason, or just because you are growing sideways (Dickster)
I felt it was time for a change = perhaps it is menopause or some other mid life crises.
Anyways I was frettin' several sets of speakers yesterday. The P30''s being part of all that. I decided to give them an appropriate shakedown so I position them on a ledge halfway up my lower level wall they rest against the wall and are backed by a coarsing of drywall then a flooring beam so there is some meat behind them. I have them in a horizontal position and I hooked them up to my BM 1900. Very good results.
Finding new caps for them is proving to be a bit of a challenge. Not very many 5UF or 16uf caps are made. To get them I may have to buy expensive foil caps from a couple different manufactures. All at different voltages.
The Dickster:Finding new caps for them is proving to be a bit of a challenge. Not very many 5UF or 16uf caps are made.
5 = 4.7 µF (-8.5%)
16 = 15 µF (-6.3%)
The tolerances on the original caps were something awful already when they left the factory, so errors like that won't make much of a difference. Besides, the service manual on site actually shows 4.7 / 6.8 / 15 µF for P30?
--mika
tournedos: The Dickster:Finding new caps for them is proving to be a bit of a challenge. Not very many 5UF or 16uf caps are made. 5 = 4.7 µF (-8.5%) 16 = 15 µF (-6.3%) The tolerances on the original caps were something awful already when they left the factory, so errors like that won't make much of a difference. Besides, the service manual on site actually shows 4.7 / 6.8 / 15 µF for P30?
Cheating values (a little) is something I had considered - but as a rule I try to match the values I find inside a component.
I had a little problems for P45s too, used 17 + 8 for the 25 uF, for your 5 why not 4 +1, and 2 x 8 for the 16. Bought from Parts Express and they have the cheaper ones in these sizes.
Søren Mexico: I had a little problems for P45s too, used 17 + 8 for the 25 uF, for your 5 why not 4 +1, and 2 x 8 for the 16. Bought from Parts Express and they have the cheaper ones in these sizes.
Thought of that too Soren but I have to mindful of how much space I have available inside the cabinet and on the board, Using the larger foil caps esp. a 400V Solen would require that I somehow relocate the crossover. Right now it sit kind of offset under the tweeter.
I would prefer to use standard electrolytic at 100V. I may just end up cheating values a tad.
The Dickster:I would prefer to use standard electrolytic at 100V. I may just end up cheating values a tad.
As the service manual lists the "off" values I mentioned, the cheating probably happened already at the factory! In those days, cap values weren't yet completely slotted into the standard E6 / E12 / E24 / etc series that are now the norm (they were first applied to resistors). They may have designed the crossover into those values, but at the assembly stage installed caps from some manufacturer which was still using the old, more "human" selection of values.
Small manufacturers that produce caps specifically for speakers still like to use the more even values for some reason, but I personally would never get out of my way to get the exact values, if stock series allow for <10% error. As said, electolytic caps usually have a specified tolerance at least that big to begin with. Even the expensive Intertechnik MKT foil caps I've used in some of my speakers are specified only to +/-%5.
There are so many other variables in practical speaker placement etc. that I doubt anybody would ever hear differences such as this. I'd pay more attention to the values if I only recapped one speaker of a pair, but that wouldn't make any sense anyway.
The Dickster:Thought of that too Soren but I have to mindful of how much space I have available inside the cabinet and on the board, Using the larger foil caps esp. a 400V Solen would require that I somehow relocate the crossover. Right now it sit kind of offset under the tweeter.
I used these for my P45, small and works
Søren Mexico: The Dickster:Thought of that too Soren but I have to mindful of how much space I have available inside the cabinet and on the board, Using the larger foil caps esp. a 400V Solen would require that I somehow relocate the crossover. Right now it sit kind of offset under the tweeter. I used these for my P45, small and works
Thanks Mika and Soren I found this site and it could prove helpful should questions such as this arise in the future
http://circuitcalculator.com/wordpress/2006/01/21/find-standard-resistor-and-capacitor-values/
I really am enjoying the sound the P30 produces when mated with a BM1900. very clear with plenty of bass mids and highs. Way better than a CX anything.
M70 tweeter is the same: 4 ohm H-086