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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022

 

What does MMC stand for?

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Romy1965
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Romy1965 Posted: Sat, May 2 2020 4:28 PM

Sorry, I have a MMC5 cartridge. What do the letters stand for?

trackbeo
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I presumed MMC abbreviated "Moving Magnet Cartridge".  But there's probably some better, Danish, explanation...

[Edit: Oops, of course Hiort is correct, and it's the exact *opposite* of Moving Magnet: The magnets and coils are actually *stationary* and the micro-cross, which is actually a Moving Iron, moves between two separate pairs of them.  B&O got a patent for it.]

Hiort
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Hiort replied on Sat, May 2 2020 4:47 PM
"MMC" stands for Moving Micro-Cross

 

 

 

 

Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2  Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote  Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset

Hiort
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Hiort replied on Sat, May 2 2020 4:48 PM
https://www.lpgear.com/category/B_O.html

 

 

 

 

Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2  Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote  Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset

Romy1965
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So would that be considered moving magnet or moving coils???

Romy1965
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So mine be considered a moving magnet or moving coils? The reason why I ask is because I'm trying to set up my preamp and need to know if it's moving magnet or moving coils

 

OldJack
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OldJack replied on Sat, May 2 2020 5:03 PM

Moving magnet coil Cool

Sorry,bad joke.My MMC2 is moving coil.

 

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trackbeo
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You should use a search engine to look through the archived forums -- there was a lot of back-and-forth about this, a long time ago.  

My take on it is that if you only have a single switch MM vs. MC, you should choose MM.  This is because flat frequency response depends on a match between the output impedance of the cartridge and the input impedance of the phono preamp.  The switch also changes what the preamp expects as an output level from the cartridge, alas you'll have to turn the volume up for the B&O cartridge.  But if you choose MC, you'll have to turn the volume down! (There's also a minor risk of distortion, beyond the impedance settings, if the signal overloads the MC input.  It isn't dangerous to the equipment but will sound bad.  In fact that's a reasonable way of choosing: try both and just listen!)

However, if you have a fancy preamp with multiple settings/switches to match an MC cartridge, go do the reading: *In theory* you can probably get a good match with one of the MC settings and match the volume level too.  Generally MC sections were built with better components & layout, because the output level of MC cartridges was so much lower, more amplification was needed.

Romy1965
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Thanks for your help. Im currently thinking about investing in the Mani by Schiit https://www.schiit.com/products/mani

It has multiple switches, so now at this point not sure how to set the switches. 

lawrencejmcook
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If you click on the Specs tab of that link you posted they suggest the following for low-output MM cartridges:

Gain 1 = H, Gain 2 = L (Low Output MM/High Output MC Mode)

Use that as a starting point and, as trackbeo said, listen to how it sounds.
Romy1965
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No I was told not to go with the mani by Schiit. I was told to go and purchase a bellari Rolls VP129. Apparently this is a tube amp which would be better for my turntable MMC5

sonavor
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sonavor replied on Sun, May 3 2020 5:25 AM

MMC is not a Moving Coil type cartridge.

From High Fidelity magazine's review of the, then new, MMC-1 in April of 1983 (the year I bought a Beogram 8002 and an MMC-2 cartridge) they said this about the Beogram 8002 design and the MMC-1 -

"The 8002 uses neither belt- nor direct -

drive. Instead, coils beneath the platter rim

induce eddy currents that cause it to move.

Correct speed is maintained by a quartz -

locked servo system, although you can

deliberately introduce alterations by means

of a pair of buttons below the digital speed

display on the control panel.

Before starting design on the new

pickups for which the 8002 is intended,

B&O set out to determine whether any particular

transduction system has an innate

sonic advantage over the others. To do this,

the company conducted a series of rigorously

controlled listening tests with high -quality

moving -iron, moving -magnet. and

moving -coil cartridges. As we would have

expected, the results indicated that none is

inherently superior to the others: Superlative

sound can be obtained from any of

them.

B&O's engineers elected to use the

moving -iron principle. which has enabled

them to combine high performance. high

output, and low sensitivity to capacitive

loading in an extraordinarily small, lightweight

package. The low mass of these

pickups has in turn enabled the B&O design

team to increase the effective mass of the

8002's tonearm (for greater stiffness) without

moving the arm/cartridge resonance frequency

down into the record -warp range."

I have used the Luxman, Yamaha and B&O amplifiers with the Beogram 400x and 800x turntables. Those were also with MMC 4000, MMC 6000, MMC-20CL, MMC-1 and MMC-2 B&O cartridges. The non-B&O amplifiers had phono selection options and I always use the setting for moving magnet. With a B&O amplifier you obviously don't have to select anything....they are compatible.

-sonavor

Ian
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Ian replied on Sun, May 3 2020 5:57 AM

It's really neither MM or MC in terms of construction. It's MMC=moving micro-cross, as others have said. Essentially moving-iron, a technology a few others like Grado implement. To get into the specifics, both the coil and magnet are fixed, and the stylus cantilever manipulates an armature between the two that changes the magnetic field. 

Goldring has a good explanation and GIF of it in action.

Peter Ledermann of SoundSmith, who build replacement B&O carts and others based on the same technology, explains why he's a proponent. 

But more to your essential question, which is setup. Trackbeo has it right: you want to set this up as a low-output-voltage MM. 

Again, to quote Peter from SoundSmith, on their 'high output' (that is, in their lineup, and the B&O clones fall into this):

"They are designed to be used with standard MM phono preamps – 47K Ohms load, with 100-300 pf capacitance loading - to taste. The pf loading will affect the top end sound/roll characteristics. Preferred gain range is 40-44 db." 

Aside from all that—both the Schitt and Bellari stages are amazing (and I definitely want one or the other), but definitely be sure that a now possibly 40+ year old cartridge is up to task. We're talking worn stylus and likely failing suspension. I will say, however, that SoundSmith's SMMC4 is absolutely phenomenal for $200, and I'd budget for a new cartridge before a new phono stage, unless, of course, you don't have one to begin with.

Beomaster 2000 (1980s), Beogram CD 3300 (1987), Technics SL1200mkII (1984) + Ortofon 2m Bronze, Beovox S45 (1970s)

In progress: custom stands for the Beovox

On deck: Beogram 5000, SoundSmith SMMC4

Ian
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Ian replied on Sun, May 3 2020 5:57 AM

It's really neither MM or MC in terms of construction. It's MMC=moving micro-cross, as others have said. Essentially moving-iron, a technology a few others like Grado implement. To get into the specifics, both the coil and magnet are fixed, and the stylus cantilever manipulates an armature between the two that changes the magnetic field. 

Goldring has a good explanation and GIF of it in action.

Peter Ledermann of SoundSmith, who build replacement B&O carts and others based on the same technology, explains why he's a proponent. 

But more to your essential question, which is setup. Trackbeo has it right: you want to set this up as a low-output-voltage MM. 

Again, to quote Peter from SoundSmith, on their 'high output' (that is, in their lineup, and the B&O clones fall into this):

"They are designed to be used with standard MM phono preamps – 47K Ohms load, with 100-300 pf capacitance loading - to taste. The pf loading will affect the top end sound/roll characteristics. Preferred gain range is 40-44 db." 

Aside from all that—both the Schitt and Bellari stages are amazing (and I definitely want one or the other), but definitely be sure that a now possibly 40+ year old cartridge is up to task. We're talking worn stylus and likely failing suspension. I will say, however, that SoundSmith's SMMC4 is absolutely phenomenal for $200, and I'd budget for a new cartridge before a new phono stage, unless, of course, you don't have one to begin with.

Beomaster 2000 (1980s), Beogram CD 3300 (1987), Technics SL1200mkII (1984) + Ortofon 2m Bronze, Beovox S45 (1970s)

In progress: custom stands for the Beovox

On deck: Beogram 5000, SoundSmith SMMC4

Romy1965
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Thank you for all your input. Still trying to decide on the pre amp. 

Mani vs Bellai VP130. The Bellari is a tube amp which I heard brings in a warmer sound true sound. 

Beozip
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B & O Test Certificate ....1

Beozip
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B & O Test Certificate .... 2

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