ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello forum members. I'm new to posting so please forgive me if I violate forum etiquette or for any technical ineptitude. I'm considering purchasing a 512 zone Beovision 7-55 Mark II. As far as I can determine B&O is the only company to use this panel in the US or the EU.. Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on the 7-55 as compared too other Full Array BackLit panels sold in the US such as the Sharp Elite or Sony 9 series which I understand is also available in Europe.
For example, how does the Picture Quality compare? How good is the processor for Standard Definition or internet video such as Apple TV? What about reliability? In addition, does anyone know if the 2D 512 zone panel is the same as the 3d panel? I might consider buying a demo.. Any other factors I should be considering? I'm unable to find any reviews on theMII although I did fine a review of the Toshiba 512 zone 3D panel.
I live in New York City. There are several dealers within a 30 mile radius of my home. Anybody care to comment on warranty service? I've been told that most repairs are completed within 72 hours. Questions such as how long it would take to replace the panel because of dead/stuck pixels, clouding, Dirty Screen Effect (areas of solid color appear "dirty" during rapid panning), etc.,are generally answered with some variation of "not possible with B&O". I'v been unable to fine a locate a written warranty that states the details of coverage. for me, with a purchase of this magnitude, I've got to know what is specifically covered and the down time.
A wealthy friend of mine and a fellow videophile liked the PQ, but thinks that a Beovision purchase is 1/3 sophisticated technical specification, 1/3 design + build quality, and 1/3 status. Like certain exotic cars, for some part of the thrill of ownership is mentioning the trails and tribulations of servicing. similar to "If you have to ask, you can't afford it.".
My primary interest is PQ, reliability, and prompt service. I'm willing to pay for the experience. I like the 7-55 design and build quality. I understand the concept of diminishing returns, but I can't see paying 4 times the price of a full array elite ($4500 for a 60 inch) or 6 times the price for a full array Sony ($2500 for the 55 inch), if they have close to equivalent PQ, reliability, and service.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions and comments.
Welcome to the forum. I am also a US resident and have a BV7-55, non-3D. I find it to be an amazing TV. I have a friend who is very much into the technical aspect of home theater and quote specifications on TVs and speakers like an encyclopedia. He does not own a single piece of B and O but has a very elaborate theater room in his house. When he saw my 7-55 for the first time he expressed the opinion that he thought it was the best tv in the world. (no nasty comments please from those who disagree as there are many. I am merely repeating a statement that was made to me in an effort to answer the question)
As for use with Apple TV, I was quite happy with the picture quality with my original Apple TV. I am awaiting delivery this Friday of the newest Apple TV.
Also, remember when comparing the price of the 7-55 to other brands, that the 7-55 has a sophisticated surround sound processor in it whereas the other tis would require the purchase of separate components for surround sound.
As for service in 72 hours, I am a bit skeptical of that. (I have never needed repairs on my Beovision 10-40, Beosound 1, Beosound 3000, Beosound 5, Beosound 2000 (did have it cleaned as doors were sticking a bit at age 12 or any of my speakers) On the infrequent occasions I have needed warranty repairs on my Beovision Avant, and previous Beovison 7-40, I would describe the problem to the repair service, they would then typical order a "suitcase" from Denmark with parts and schedule the visit. The repairs were usually about two weeks later. Of course part of that was due to my schedule, my particular repair center's schedule, and perhaps most importantly the fact that my repair center is 3 hours from my home so technician has to schedule an entire day when he comes to my house.
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
Many thanks for your replay Razlaw. Suitcases were mentioned to me. I was told a certain number were kept at the service center, hence the 3 days. If the suitcase had to be ordered from the factory, then it's 2 weeks. I'm still interested in the terms and conditions of the warranty. Perhaps there are minor variations from dealer to dealer and that's why it's not easily available?
Frankly my current 5.1 system is still adequate for me. At some later date I would add a B&O sound system. I probably would also omit the integrated BluRay and substitute an external OPPO player as a member suggested to another some while back. Deleting these features also reduces the initial cost if I don't get a demo.. It still would be a 5 figure purchase.
May I ask if you have the Mark I or Mark II. FlatPanels.com rated the Mark I as the best LCDTV they had ever tested. The reviews there are technical and highly regarded by videophiles.
Thanks again for your helpful reply
The PQ from the BV7-55 3D is superior to that of the Mark 1.
One should bear in mind that the mainstream manufacturers,in order to drive down the cost of even their top of the range sets to the consumer,have been sacrificing both quality,and quality control.
This makes purchase a bit of a lottery as to whether or not one will obtain a problem free set.
Purchase of a B & O TV is certainly an expensive proposition,but one makes that purchase in the expectation that component quality will be first class,that tight quality control will deliver a TV with problem free performance,and that,as frequently happens with the mainstream,should a problem arise neither the dealer,nor the manufacturer,will duck,and dive,in an endeavour to fob off the customer.
With regard to the BV 7-55 3D TV,I have to say it has been the first LED TV to lure me away from Plasma.
I have had my set for about 4 weeks,and it's PQ,even on standard definition material,is simply stunning.
The great thing is the absence,to my eyes,of artifacts such as haloing,that are considered to be normally associated with full backlit TVs with local dimming,blur on fast motion,and DSE.
I would say that it warrrants serious consideration,and you should give it a thorough audition.
As for warranty,the fact that it is 3 years,and worldwide,indicates B & O's faith in the product.
TerryM:As for warranty,the fact that it is 3 years,and worldwide,indicates B & O's faith in the product.
And is dealer independent especially I would think if you are buying from a B1 store (their flagships), and if a dealer is not performing you have the recourse of writing to B&O (which sometimes works, but there is also a history of other dealers stepping and making small assists)
BeoNut since '75
Forum members, thank you for your responses. The way the "panel lottery" works in the U.S. under optimal circumstances is one buys the set, It's delivered. You run it through a battery of tests such as Video Essentials, Spears and Muncil, etc., in the presence of the delivery people. If it fails the delivery people immediately return it and bring you another. Generally this process can be repeated up to 3 times.
At this point both the buyer and seller usually become so fatigued the process is terminated. Money is returned. The buyer either starts over with another brand or vender or husbands their resources until the new models come to market. Prior to, and during this process the buyer keeps abreast of video publications and forums. The object is to be knowledgeable of what's best in concept and execution at a given price point. The reward to the rational is to obtain the best PQ currently available, unmarred by manufacturing defects.
Personally, I've never had to suffer through the test and return cycle. I'd like to keep it that way. I prefer to buy quality products with long life cycles. that's one of the attractions of B&O. My hesitation is the warranty seems to have a etherial quality to it. You all seem to have good experiences with B&O. I had a product experience where the original sales person was no longer employed, so the warranty became the arbitrator of the remedy. Where I live, "trust me" is the material for a plethora of jokes. It would be reassuring to read the warranty. Is it available on line?
I apologize for the time lapse between my responses to other members posts. Currently it's unavoidable.
VIDEOBESOTTED:"panel lottery"
That is an insane way to live and to conduct business - given tthat I don't blame you for being super-cautious !!!
A few members of Beoworld have ended up with bad panels but they have been replaced under warranty and with gracious dealer support ... admittedly I think mainly in the UK and the EU.
There are some US dealers on Beoworld (Russ, Trip, and the Upper West Side store (sorry I have forgotten your handle)) and they may spot this entry ... or you might ask the specific warranty question in the `North America' sub-forum.
B & O's International Guarantee states:
"In Japan,North America,South America,Taiwan,and South Korea it is not possible to have products repaired,or changed,if the products in question have not been produced for specific use in these countries,just as products purchased in the mentioned countries,can only be repaired or changed in the country of purchase."
The International Guarantee also states:"The Bang & Olufsen dealer in question will rectify the defect either by,at his choice,repairing the defect product,replacing it,or paying you back the purchase sum."
Thank you Terry M and Elephant for your answers. Reading over my posts, perhaps I appear slightly pedantic on the issue of warranty coverage. Maybe the forum members would be interested in shifting the discussion to Beovision PQ and B&O philosophy of Picture Quality?
The FlatpanelsHD review of the MI 7-55 mentions that the reviewer was unable to adjust the TV's color temperature to the international D6500 standard. The closest Mr. Larsen was able to get in the user menu was D7500. He wished for a "Movie Mode" set to D6500. When a salesperson was listing the features, they said the MII was set to D6500 at the factory. Apparently Mr. Larsen's wish has been granted.
I noticed some Edge Enhancement or sharpening. I wonder if the enhancement features can be adjusted and /or turned off? I know B&O has done extensive research into what elements and in what degree constitute superior PQ. (VisionClear}. I like the result, especially their implementation of Frame Interloping (adjustable?, can be defeated?). I also like the D6500 standard with minimal or no enhancements. Can I have both modes? As Terry M observed, I also saw no Haloing or Motion Artifacts on BluRay. The color did seem slightly blue to me. It could have been the source. I asked the salesperson if the TV was set to factory default. They said yes.
Does anybody know if these enhancements can be adjusted or turned off, perhaps Terry M? I couldn't fine any information on the B&O site. I like the salespeople they are polite and helpful, but the answers are general "Most owners don't find the need to adjust the set. It adjusts automatically.". I'm sure most owners don't and why should they if they're pleased with the picture? Most likely, I'm part of a small minority. To use another car analogy, I like a car transmission that can shift automatically or manually when desired.
Any comment or suggestions?
VIDEOBESOTTED:Any comment
Disclaimer: I am not any form of an expert - not even a prosumer.
We have always preferred what we felt were the more natural colours of European televisions: starting 35 years ago we bought Philips because we felt the skin tones were more natural, and we stuck with Philips for years.
I had always wanted B&O but never one the economic debate until we were in Newcastle and I was able to buy a second hand Avant from Gray Street. Living with that TV convinced my wife that the extra cost was worth it, and so on our return we went for an LCD BeoVision.
I look at the mass of TV displays in the bulk retailers and almost universal detest the colours I see there (I acknowledge that probably none have been properly installed, none the less the effect is enough to keep me from buying "cheap" solutions).
My last observation, is that in all these things the observer often makes subconscious adjustments - after all our eyes and brain are fantastic devices and I am sure they rapidly adjust to new settings (I know this could counter my cheap TV argument ... but what the heck )
Elephant, your reply is insightful. First, I do consider myself a prosumer. I too have a "we" relationship, and there must be agreement. Fortuitously, this has been achieved. Since the early 70's I've bought premium televisions and kept them for several years. In the early 90's we bought a Loewe. A brand sadly no longer available in the US. The Avant is one of the few CRT's that had a similar appeal to us, as we too prefer the more natural colors of the european TV.
Philips has also withdrawn from the US market. Philips here are now rebranded Chinese models, leaving B&O the only european TV. What prosumers do here after purchasing a premium television is hire a certified calibrator with special equipment to adjust the TV to Society of Motion Pictures and Television Engineers or SMPTE standard. I understand that B&O preforms a similar procedure at the factory.
To my eyes there is a CRT/film like quality to the 7 series. I like the 7-40 (and the more affordable price) but it's too small for our seating distance of 9 feet by US standards. 46 inches would be ideal, but the 10 series is not for us. We may make the size sacrifice and get the 55. Actually, 55 is now considered small here. The current standard is 60>65. Sharp has introduced a 80 inch model for approximately $3000. Proper seating distance for some is 8, yes 8 feet(!) for a "immersive" experience.
VIDEOBESOTTED:Sharp has introduced a 80 inch model for approximately $3000. Proper seating distance for some is 8, yes 8 feet(!) for a "immersive" experience.
I am all for immersive -- it's a constant debate when "we" go to the movies (as we did today, I lost, we sat in the back row) -- but I think I would sit closer to a smaller screen and save some money .... of course our home is smaller than an American establishment which also helps build the case
I should have made it clear when referring to the PQ of the BV7-55 3D that I was referring to it's performance with 2D material.
I have no interest in 3D,and,therefore,am unable to comment on the TV's performance with 3D.
If 3D is a consideration,the consensus view amongst professional reviewers appears to be that Panasonic's Plasma TVs are the best performing.
Prior to purchasing the BV7-55 3D,my TV was an 8G Pioneer Plasma which I had had professionally ISF calibrated in conjunction with a Lumagen Radiance XE video processor.
My ongoing complaint against B & O with their TVs is that there is no provision for user access to a set of controls to enable an ISF calibration to be performed.
Whenever I have raised this with my local B & O dealer the response has been the facility must be somewhere in the service menu,but it has never been shown to me.So whether it exists or not,I cannot say.
One has to take it on trust that the B & O factory calibration produces optimum PQ.
In his reveiw of the Mark One BV7-55,Rasmus Larsen said that it had the best out of the box measurement he had yet made,so one has no reason to suspect that there would have been any reduction in the quality of B & O's calibration procedure.
I think that proof of B & O's confidence in their factory calibration is that,unlike the mainstream manufacturers,there is no provision of multiple modes such as Cinema(or Movie),Dynamic,Standard,THX,etc.
Cartoon colours on LED/LCD TVs on display in retailers' showrooms are generally due to the TVs being set to Dynamic.
However,more mainstream manufacturers are providing user access to controls to enable ISF calibration,so one can obtain a more accurate PQ.
Before purchasing the BV7-55 3D,I was wary of the incorporation of an automatic adjustment of the picture to adapt to changing light levels,as in some mainstream models this has been accompanied by abrupt changes which prove to be disconcerting.
I have to say that I have not noticed any such problems with B & O's implementation of this facility.
The main attraction for me in moving from Plasma to LED/LCD was the latter's greater 'see through' property which,I presume,is due to the slight haze produced by Plasma's dithering noise.
To be honest,other than a slight reduction in contrast,I have had no reason to adjust the default settings on the BV7-55 3D.
My dealer assured me that the Blu-Ray player incorporated into the current 7-55 was superior to that in the Mark One.
I presume that each player is optimised to it's accompanying panel,as it's performance on SD material is excellent.
The downside,compared to my Oppo 95,is the paucity of user presets.
TerryM this is just the type of information I'm trying to acquire. Thank you. I'm not particularly interested in 3D either. Hence a 2D Mark II would suffice. I also have my televisions ISF calibrated. For the benefit of the members that may not know, the 8G Pioneer combined with a Lumagen Radiance XE and ISF calibrated was the ultimate Flat panel set up just a few years ago. The PQ is still competitive. Lumagen XE has been continuously updated by software downloads and is considered by many to be the best processor available today.
Any further thoughts, comments, or suggestions you may care to give would be of value to me TerryM. How does the Beosystem 3 compare to the Lumagen for SD? Have you connected the OPPO? Is the performance equal to the internal drive? In both cases is the SD equal? From my extensive reading on Beoworld I know there is a film mode on some models in the service menu. Perhaps the 7-55 has advanced to the point that no manual adjustments are needed even in the service menu. Perhaps your dealer has not yet revealed these service menu adjustments to you. I cannot say.
What I can say is that this is not the first time I've attempted to purchase a Beovision. Just before the 8G Pioneer was released, I auditioned a Beovision 4 50 inch with a Beosystem1 processor. At the time it was indisputably the best processor available for upconverting SD. There were few HD broadcasts in the NYC area. BluRay and HDDVD were in their infancy. The contrast screen gave the deepest black levels available at the time with most durable surface of any plasma at the time. There were additional useful features.
I went as far as to ask a renowned calibrater Kevin Miller to accompany me. All went well until he played his demonstration disc containing scenes designed to revel flaws. Heavy edge enhancement made the actors appear to be attempting escape from the phantom zone in the Superman movie. We asked the salesperson if the edge enhancement could be adjusted. He replied it was neither feasible nor desirable. At that point, I reluctantly gave up.
In the weeks prior, I had with some cajoling gotten the salesperson to call Corporate headquarter to find out the dead/stuck pixel policy (it was clusters of 3 or 4 near the center, 9 or more individuals randomly located) I remarked on the old adage of Rolls Royce when prospects asked about performance the reply was "adequate". The salesperson thought that was the appropriate.
I'm sure this is a sophisticated marketing decision, but is there no way that we who are interested in performance can know what adjustments are possible? I feel I'm perceived by B&O as a late 19th century cad who wants to peek at her ladyship's ankles when in fact, I'm besotted with admiration. My motives are pure. I could be so easily seduced.
VIDEOBESOTTED,
My Pioneer TV was used with the Pioneer's accessory speakers.
If I had had a 5.1 sound system,with an AV Receiver,with which I was happy,I don't think I would have considered a wholesale change to a B & O system,especially since,in my case,it was to be just for TV sound purposes as I have a very high end Hi-Fi system which I have no intention of replacing.
I would have seriously investigated the Panasonic VX300 Monitor.
In their review,avforums said it was the first tv in 3 years of reviews to be awarded reference status.
www.avforums.com/review/Panasonic-Professional-VX300-TH65VX300-65-Inch-3D-Plasma-TV-Review.html
I'm not sure that one can compare a Lumagen to a Beosystem 3,in that the Lumagen can be calibrated to the nth degree to each individual piece of equipment coneected to it.
Additionally,with an ISF calibration,as you know,the first part is the calibration of the TV itself,so that part is missing from the connection of the Lumagen to the BV7-55 3D,although the system still benefits from the calibration of my ancilliaries to the Lumagen.
Given that of the 4 HDMI inputs available on the BV7,2 will be taken up by the integral tuner,and blu-ray player,depending on one's ancilliary equipment one may well need an external HDMI switcher.
I have my Oppo 95 connected via the Lumagen,as it has the hardware all regions mod fitted.
Again it is difficult to compare it's performance to that of the BV7's integrated player,since the BV7 has not been optimised to it by way of an ISF calibration.
All I can say is that I have no complaints about the performance of the BV7's integrated player,particularly with SD DVDs.
As to the question of whether,or not,one can ISF calibrate a BV7 via it's service menu,even if one can,one does not know the extent of the controls provided.
As I have said,if I was in your position,with an existing 5.1 sound system,and a desire to have the utmost control over calibration,and assuming one could accommodate a 65" TV,I would investigate the Panasonic VX300.
Elephant Thanks for your thoughts on immersion. My situation is like that of the Highlander "There can be only one" quality video display in our home. So there is a swiss army knife aspect, one display must be able to do a bit of everything. We don't want to be immersed in the image when we are watching regular tv, for example the evening news. We rarely find time, say once a month, to turn off the lights and lose ourselves in a film. The only exception would be the episode in Faulty Towers where Faulty gives his auto a sound thrashing. I would view that conflict between man and technology on a 102 inch screen. It is exactly the situation I hope B&O will enable me to avoid with a new television. We thought of a projection system for those infrequent events, the cost of a quality projector starts at $8000 + motorized retractable screen $2000 + soffit,HDMI and power cables installation $2000 + calibration $500 + miscellaneous $500 and you approach the frontier of beovision.
Terry M let met congratulate on your choices of video equipment. You are, as my friends would say, living the videophile dream. Thank you for the link to AVForum's review of the VX300. This display was also recently meticulously reviewed in WIDESCREEN Review. It was rated "just shy of the best" for black level and contrast (probably on par with your 8G KURO). I believe B&O sources Panasonic plasma panels from the commercial division for their displays. B&O has first preference for "glass" coming off the production line. B&O modifies the panels for that Beovision magic.
You might be interested in the first review of the Panasonic LT55W50 LCD at HDGURU.com Supposedly, this panel resolved many of the problems associated with LCD's.