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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
http://www.devialet.com/index.php The French audio-revolution
Could you please elaborate on this a little in your own words, especially from the angle in your topic, so we wouldn't need to delete this as another advertisement?
--mika
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Agree Chris but join a nice pair of speakers and it cost same price as BeoLab 5 ! I like the Devialet D-Premier design. It is a digital versatil / DAC amplifier. Read articles in their website. Devialet have planned to launch a system for 1.000 €uros only. We will see !
Tournedos is not an ad just a simply information that they are audio companies that have find new technical options. Bang & Olufsen is sleeping with their ICEpower technology - 12 years old now.
Why the double thread? Nobody is going to read my previous post now. lol...
Yes Icepower may be 12 years old but I think it is now in it's third incarnation. But the B&O marketing department is not doing a very good job in telling the public about it. Like we know there is Icepower but what kind and what yr? What's the difference?
Hypex PWM amplifiers are now considered so much more superior now.
Will not get the Devialet simply because I find the technology not too elegant nor is it remotely good in measurement terms. And for the price that is completely not acceptable.
Like I said B&O cannot just be a lifestyle brand now that other brands with higher HiFi credentials are charging into the market as well. I mean since audio technology moves at a relatively slow pace as compared to vision then it makes sense to offer upgrades to the audio line to boost profit margins instead of offering new loudspeakers that is more of the same or worse - uglier looking.
Completely agree that Beo should launch new products in audio line. They have enough loudspeakers but I read they will continue to launch speakers. BeoLab 14 will be show soon.
Just another alumium box without soul that plays music.
Probably in a perfect manner but my eyes won't see the difference.
B&o is more than that.
Something that you feel with your eyes, ears and finally heart.
Unfortunately, b&o lacks of great audio attractiv player.
Not easy to make something eye catching, easy to use and efficient.
I am sure that they will solve this issue by finding a great designer.
When I take a look on the shareholders of Devialet (french billionaires in fashion and telecoms), and I see their kind of marketing policy, I don't believe they will produce any product that won't generate high margin.
So, at 1000 euros, I don't expect a b&o killer product.
Icepower is great but this is not only this technology in question.The DAC is a part that surely will make the difference.
I read a very long thread about Devialet on a french forum and its efficiency depend a lot of the type of connection/cable used, the quality of the music played and the quality of the speakers.
So, nothing new, just another option, simplier solution (dac, preamp, amp) that help to reach a high level of audio quality.
At 12000 euros, I find this just ... normal.
4 beolab 5, beolab 9, beolab 10, beolab 5000, beolab 8000 mk2, beolab 6002, beolab 3500, beovision 7 55 mk2, 2 beovision 11 46 mk4, beotime, beosound ouverture, beosound essence, beoplay A8, beomaster 900 RG de luxe and the collection continues...
I am impatient too ! :-)) I want a new elegant aluminium media player for audio & video. B&O wake up !!
This doesn't float my boat... But a new B&O media player for audio and video... There's a thought.
Vähintään yhdeksänkymmentä prosenttia suomalainen!
( I have decided to put my previous post in the duplicate thread here just in case it is getting lost. lol )
Oh the Devialet has been around for a couple of years. I like that it is all in one though. I will much prefer a Direct digital amplifier/ power DAC than a PWM amplifier just because it is a much more elegant solution. The Devialet is very innovative in terms of having a traditional Class A 1 watt amplifier drive the voltage part and letting the class D do the heavy lifting in the current delivery. Didn't measure all that well in the Stereophile review as compared to the either NAD M2 power DAC or the NAD M51 direct digital DAC though despite costing a lot more than either of them. I wonder whether that is why Devialet is now dropped by the many demonstrators at this year's CES.
Here is a link to the measurements taken by Stereophile. Horrible! Compared to modern state of the art.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/devialet-d-premier-da-integrated-amplifier-measurements
Here are the links to the measurements ( insanely over-performing considering the price! ) taken from the Nad offerings. They are enough to make me doubt of my extravagance on my high end setup purchase. PS. The M2 amplifier is older than the Devialet by a yr or two.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-m51-direct-digital-da-converter-measurements
http://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-m2-direct-digital-integrated-amplifier-measurements
Actually Icepower had put plans on creating a direct digital amplifier nearly a decade ago. Whatever happened to that plan? It's true that direct digital amplifiers are not at all that efficient as compared with traditional switching amplifiers but they are definitely applicable for high end hifi. Direct digital amplifiers are basically digital signals upsampled very precisely to match the switching frequency of a switching amplifier like Icepower but without the whole process of D/A conversion and converted to PWM. Icepower is considered as cheap amplification now so.... why not create a upmarket division of Icepower?
I really hope B&O will one day make its foray into true high end hifi. High end all in one and not separates because that's where the whole hifi industry is heading to anyway. I think a 5-6 figure B&O loudspeaker is a more worthwhile investment than a 5-6 figure TV. Plus it is so much easier to upgrade HiFi than TV - Linn managed to offer costly upgrades to their reference active loudspeaker line with new drive units, crossover and power supplies.
On second thought it is actually quite impossible to upgrade TV.
Chris Townsend:I must admit, après CES I'm a bit impatient about some new high end B&O products. I think a revised media player in the Beosound range would be current and market leading. A music and video player, which also includes a marketplace of not only the finest digital music(lossless), but BluRay quality films with their matching sound quality all under one roof. Obviously enough terabytes to sink a ship for future 4K films. Maybe a detachable and upgradable hard drive unit that can grow not only with your library, but as necessary for the inevitable increase in demand. Essentially a high quality iTunes type of service, married to their finest processing within a body that can reawaken that B&O magic.
Chris this would be brilliant, B&O products deliver the best sound & video quality for sure.
However Struer seem to be so far behind in their thinking with regards to the delivery and accessability of content from the consumer's point of view;
LP gave way to CD
CD gave way to the Hard drive
Hard Drive gives way to streaming
and so on................
Each time quality seems to give way to the end users' desire for convenience.
B&O Play has accepted the new concept to a point. However, the core brand is WAY off the mark, and at the moment has no real idendtity or cohesion as a coordinated system.
Chris Townsend:I know there will be the usual doom mungers saying it can't be done/will cost too much etc. These were the same folk who said airbags weren't commercially viable for the general public or music downloads would take too long and therefore never take off. Technology and industry always find a way. I now rarely buy a bluray movie simply because its far easier to download a slightly lesser quality HD movie from Sky/Sony/ITunes etc. I just want to pay more for a better quality product including music, and nobody does a one stop device.
I now rarely buy a bluray movie simply because its far easier to download a slightly lesser quality HD movie from Sky/Sony/ITunes etc. I just want to pay more for a better quality product including music, and nobody does a one stop device.
B&O made a brave attempt with the BS5 in terms of a unique controller but missed the mark for many reasons which were well documented at the time. It is clear that storing lossless (or even studio master) quality recordings is trivial an so cannot be a core competence. B&O have also demonstrated that playing digital files can be a stunning experience (BL5). So we have the stored files, we have the transducers - so what is missing?
I suggest a killer interface for searching, interrogating and sending your (lossless or HD) music to HD capable transducers. Since the hardware is almost trivial the secret is in the interface and manual interaction.........searching, organising and scheduling your music collection for playing is still the key. Quality is assured in the HD file and the transducer, a faultless and unsurpassed interface to the music (together with the necessary hardware) is all important. And here I'll differ with the general consensus - I still don't believe that an app on some general purpose controller/phone is the way.........I think it needs to be an always alive gubbins that easily navigates your music /movies and distributes them accordingly. In short, a tactile, untethered music, movie selecting device........... the modern day MCP.
The killer sales point is that it all needs to be aimed at modern day Euro middle-class instead of nouveau riche Russians/Chinese!
One is long term, the other is a fad/fashion.
Ban boring signatures!
I don't get the "aiming for the high-end hi-fi market" (or words to that effect).To me, that's not something to aim for.
Passive speakers (and yes, that includes powered passives) still rules supreme in the "hi-fi" market, closing in 30 years after the professional market, resulting in poorly measuring products isn't something to aspire to in my book.
In order to get actual "high fidelity" in the true sense of the term, you have to go active speakers and get something that measures properly. Yeah, sure, your ears are important, but only after the measurements have been done.
Yes, I know, I'm probably in the minority here, but - regardless of price - you won't find anything in the hi-fi market who uses passive speakers (again, or powered passives) that can compete with the BL5s, or even the BL9s. In fact, I find passive speakers horrific to listen to these days.
B&O makes and have made a lot of products I will never buy, nor want to buy, but going with active design in most of their speakers (and now in some of the in-walls!) is the best way to up the sound quality. Couple this with powerful (power is important) solid state amplification, and you have a winner, almost regardless of what else you do (almost).
I think you guys are undervaluing B&O on their speakers. It's really good tech, much better than most anything out there. Only som of the pro products I have heard can compete. But, as always, they're not cheaper, nor are they something I ever want to look at in my home (What design? It's separate boxes, separate amplifiers for each driver, and separate boxes for the tweeters etc.).
Edit:
I hadn't actually checked, being a bit lazy, but of course the Devialet, albeit slightly modified, is still a passive design, not active. For crying out loud, please join the 1980s at least since the 90s, 00s and 10s are way too difficult.
I think what B&O need to focus on is its media player software app and modules similar to the playmaker. The future will surely be a computer as the controller of a home entertainment system for sure. I have not made that move yet but I have seen many who did and I will soon follow suit. Perhaps a multi-channel streaming app or tv with a fully functional computer with streaming? I really do see all loudspeakers and video systems to be untethered to their sources in the very near future.
Imagine just walking into a room with a laptop or tablet and there surround sound and blu-ray quality video streaming in your very palms. Ipad is kind of there already but you still need an apple TV and cables to the rest of the system.... It's just the matter of time.... We already have wireless subwoofers bundled in home cinema packages.... Since B&O loudspeakers are mainly active so why not take the lead?.... It would totally shake up the whole digital entertainment industry! Again is someone paying me for this already?... .... it's going to be a slim chance that I am going to participate in electronics anywhere near this decade so..... and I bet some company is already working on this already... It's all in the app/software!
But please B&O astonish us!
And really this is only the beginning... soon.... I am going to keep my lips sealed now... People will either laugh my idea away or have paranoiac attacks.
I don't want something basically autoplaying on my tablet or laptop. Especially not movies of any kind. I mean, I don't want to watch a movie while walking. I'm all for very broadband wireless connections though. I look forward to being able to watch and stream 4K an 5k movies.
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I don't quite get this sentence:
wonderfulelectric:Since B&O loudspeakers are mainly active so why not take the lead?
I mean, I do get your point, but you seem to be under the impression this is somehow new tech of some sort? Active speakers have been the de facto standard for audio production since the late 1980s. Only the hi-fi world never seems to catch on. But I get that you mean that they're leading the pack somewhat, and I have to agree with that. I can find no other "hifi" manufacturer that makes active speakers, and to such a high standard.
I seriously think they should play more on the actual advantages of active speakers, instead of focusing on "Our ears are the final judge" mantra which seems to often translate into "we think our speakers sound good, but your passive speakers driven by a 30 watt amplifier might be just as good. Our design is better, though". Sorry for that, but it wouldn't hurt to educate the people at the same time, since they actually have awesome speakers.
Sure Wonderfulelectric, Application Software is the Future. Apple is the Leader actually. All products are AirPlay. I am not sure that B&O can surprise us. Research & Development are very expensive.
The sound quality of a Bang & Olufsen system coupled with a user interface and operation as good as Sonos.
Now that would be a start
Yes hoping that Bang & Olufsen will move this year !
Electrified: I don't quite get this sentence: wonderfulelectric:Since B&O loudspeakers are mainly active so why not take the lead?
Let me clarify with what I meant by that sentence. Wireless streaming will be way easier to handle with active loudspeakers. So why doesn't B&O just create individual playmakers per channel of loud speakers so we can finally be freed from all the wiring trouble. Plus they can have the option of varying degrees of quality in terms of the playmaker modules like users can buy higher grade playmakers when they see the need etc... Why should all B&O loudspeakers share the same quality of DAC when they are so different. And also because the modules are only created for in house loudspeakers why not have DSP integrated into them? So basically you can have a technician or a tech savvy client tailor the individual frequency/ phase/impulse responses of each active loudspeaker via wifi into the advanced individual playmaker modules via their computer with a calibrated microphone.
And also at the risk of repeating myself I am just going to mention this only once in this thread. Employ refined BMR drivers to handle the mid to high frequency instead of the usual flawed ALT lens with mid or mid/bass cone combo. The implementation is so flawed I don't even know where to begin. High quality BMR drive units offer extreme wide dispersion, polar response evenness and excellent impulse response throughout their range of operation. And the technology is just in its infancy. Having just the ALT lens for the treble and not the midrange just throws the whole tonal response of loudspeakers out of balance and exactly what natural instrument have a 180 degree horizontal dispersion and artificially narrowed vertical dispersion in the high frequency anyway? Granted the focused lens was a novel idea that should have been explored but now that there are way superior drive unit technologies out there..... I don't see why bother with the lenses anymore. They are expensive to machine, inherently flawed and considering not everyone has lushly furnished interiors to dampen the side wall reflection problems imposed by the lenses. And which recording studio uses those lenses to master music anyway plus the lenses themselves limit the degree of freedom on how designers can design loudspeakers for B&O. Besides when you eliminate the resources allocated to two drivers ( two amplification, the acoustic lens, the treble unit and the midrange), you get to use a higher power quality implementation of ICEpower to the mid-high range which is in fully balanced mode, I am not talking about bridged mode to boost power but balanced mode to half the distortion, and perhaps fully balanced ICEpower for the bass range too. I mean there is a tremendous cost saving from not using an acoustic lens and there will be a reduced labor cost of not assembling as many components too.
Some links of the existing BMR designs out there. Pretty close to perfection already!
http://www.cotswoldsoundsystems.com/index.php
http://www.naimaudio.com/sites/default/files/products/downloads/files/naim_ovator-s-600_bmr_white-paper_may2009.pdf
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/naim5/ovator_2.html
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/320792163/the-coleridge-design-acube-bmr-speaker-system
http://www.avguide.com/blog/radical-bmr-drivers-make-cambridge-audio-s-minx-system-different-better
http://www.frankenspiel.com
I know some might have been tired of me mentioning LAT subwoofer technology time and again but for those who have not read my posts or arguments for it... here it is. LAT subwoofer technology is basically a very novel "subwoofer" implementation that was a joint innovation venture between three international divisions of Tymphany that flopped because the the audio industry isn't ready for it yet and the marketing was totally off at launch.
An LAT "subwoofer" is basically an incarnation of the Heil Motion Transformer employed in the bass frequency. What you have are very potent magnetic motors balanced at each side of a tube driving an array of smaller cones with each cone in opposition. Basically what you have is similar to the implementation in the Beolab 11 but way faster and lower in distortion with the need of occupying only 1/3 of the volume usually required for subwoofers of similar potency. You can pack a the power of a ten inch long throw subwoofer (it actually has the total surface cone area of 2 ten incher but because of its limited excursion...) with the agility that supersede any woofer out there in a form of a tube that is only 5" in diameter. The only caveat is that the technology works best when driven actively but since B&O is all about active drive..... In B&O terms it will mean that a speaker similar in form to the beolab 8000 will have the bass extension and power that matches or exceeds that of the beolab 9 but with negligible structural vibration and with the bass speed similar to that of a machine gun. B&O might be the only company with the scale and suitably high end enough to bring the technology back from limbo and with B&O's philosophy of getting maximum sound out of small enclosures... this will be a match made in heaven. I think B&O knows very clearly of the existence of this technology otherwise what's with the driver implementations in the Beolab 11 and the latest in wall subwoofer? B&O buys a ton of speakers from Tymphany ! Most of all LAT subwoofers are cheap and can be scaled all the way from a tiny 2.5" tube to massive 12" tube! It will mark the end of overcharging clients for quality bass or even the need for subwoofers altogether.
Just so you know the rough estimate for the value for bass quality of this calibre, it is around $10,000 to $20,000 per subwoofer.
Actually hifi manufacturers have made costly but not necessarily better implementations of the same such as Paradigm, B&W , Martin Logan and Wilson Benesch.
Here is an old page to the LAT. Thank god it has not been removed yet.
http://www.d-s-t.com.au/LAT/
You obviously dont know much about active speakers,if you cant find any other manufacturer that makes them,try meridian they were the first,and atc,Beolab 5 is the only full digital active speaker in yhe range.
OMG! Check this out!
Look at the competition that B&O is about to face! No wonder their shops are closing.The speakers sure aren't the prettiest but they are the most no compromise all in compact loudspeakers I have ever laid my eyes on especially for the price! I am totally lost for words! Gosh the competition is tough when the economy is down. Maybe the economic instability isn't all for the worse?
http://www.moosaudio.com/
Well I don't mind if B&O charge me double and deliver a prettier looking loudspeaker in the form of the lab4000s with this kind of quality. What a shame...... Might never happen.
I want to order it but I have too many speakers already! Grrr!!! Who wants my barely used A9 on a cheap? I still have original boxes and an extra grill cloth.
butch1: I mean, I do get your point, but you seem to be under the impression this is somehow new tech of some sort? Active speakers have been the de facto standard for audio production since the late 1980s. Only the hi-fi world never seems to catch on. But I get that you mean that they're leading the pack somewhat, and I have to agree with that. I can find no other "hifi" manufacturer that makes active speakers, and to such a high standard. I seriously think they should play more on the actual advantages of active speakers, instead of focusing on "Our ears are the final judge" mantra which seems to often translate into "we think our speakers sound good, but your passive speakers driven by a 30 watt amplifier might be just as good. Our design is better, though". Sorry for that, but it wouldn't hurt to educate the people at the same time, since they actually have awesome speakers. You obviously dont know much about active speakers,if you cant find any other manufacturer that makes them,try meridian they were the first,and atc,Beolab 5 is the only full digital active speaker in yhe range.
Let me clarify again. I know there are many active loudspeaker manufacturers in fact I have not purchased any non-active designs. The active ATC 20s were my first serious hifi purchase. And then there is the Klimax 350As from Linn. Then there is the Kef 300As that I am getting as a gift for my little sister. And of course there are the Lab3s, Lab4s, Lab4000s, Lab6000s, Lab8000s from B&O. What I meant to say is that it will be easy for B&O to implement the wireless concept since their loudspeakers are active.
Speaking of active you can't overlook the new surge of brands offering active loudspeakers. Focal, Unity Audio, PTE acoustic, Cabasse, Backes & Muller, Manger, DsPeaker, Wadax and Elipson. And of course the old favorites Dynaudio, Genelec, Adam, Equator Audio, KS digital and Barefoot.
B&O is a brand that I grew up having around I just hate to see it go. That is why I putting in suggestions. Of course I know there are better active designs out there but most of them aren't that friendly space wise. The Active 20s I have with their stands? Way bigger than the Lab9s.
Have you not been following my posts or got what I was trying to put forth?
And check out those Moos Audio speakers! What a shocker for the price! I think Meridian might have got some serious competition on their hands!
Oh did I mention I got the 2 Meridian M80 all in systems as gifts on a clearance sale? They were quite a bargain. One for my mom and one as a wedding gift.
Gosh Butch you are not the most polite person around and neither is Puncher.
Yes Puncher! You!
Shame on you by polarizing people into niches like the nouveau riche and middle class europeans. It's not the way you categorize the two but the fact that the way you imply one is of more importance? Are you Nuts!? Especially on a forum? Thank god you don't have your pic posted up otherwise that will be social suicide!
In the past I thought you were just a grumpy lad but now I kinda know where that is coming from. Your pattern of thinking! Stop the negativity! Or in other words understand where your negativity is coming from!
butch1:Active speakers have been the de facto standard for audio production since the late 1980s
Actually they have been around in the sixties by Sonab http://www.carlssonplanet.com/oa6i.php?lang=en&lang=en and in the seventies by Philips http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motional_Feedback and surely by others as well.
Not de facto standard by that time, but the concept is old and used since long time.
//Bo.A long list...
wonderfulelectric: ....................you are not the most polite person around and neither is Puncher. Yes Puncher! You! Shame on you by polarizing people into niches like the nouveau riche and middle class europeans. It's not the way you categorize the two but the fact that the way you imply one is of more importance? Are you Nuts!? Especially on a forum? Thank god you don't have your pic posted up otherwise that will be social suicide!
....................you are not the most polite person around and neither is Puncher.
Are you on drugs???!!!!!!!
I will defend to the end your (and every one else's) right to have an opinion and to publish it for general consumption despite the fact that you are talking nonsense (again)!
I'm prepared to let it slide, given it may be a culture or a language thing, but my post was neither racist, classist or hifi-ist!! My point was that B&O's traditional market was middle class or professional Europeans that were long standing and repeat customers whereas they now seem to be chasing nouveau riche (at extended prices) who are buying brands and labels and would change in a heartbeat if something with a better "pose-value" came along tomorrow (for those in China and Russia who are genuine and long standing B&O fans I apologise for generalising). The danger here is that that market could disappear overnight given a change of fashion!
Right Puncher ! The brand BeoPlay is fashionable and for The nouveau Riche.
Hoping the classic brand Bang & Olufsen will stay alive with new elegant product !
butch1:You obviously dont know much about active speakers,if you cant find any other manufacturer that makes them,try meridian they were the first,and atc,Beolab 5 is the only full digital active speaker in yhe range.
1) I wasn't talking about "fully digital" as that means ef all in this context. I was talking about active design. Wether or not it takes a digital input is irrelevant when we're talking about active design vs. passive design/powered passive design.
2) The meridian speakers I have looked at. But if you recall, I mentioned power and that power was important. If you take a look at their M6 speakers, they have 150w for the bass and 100W for the other. That's very low and it will distort quite quickly.
So, in short, no, I don't think Meridian makes good active design. They're pretty, though, and they will obviously be much better than a passive design.
Bos00: butch1:Active speakers have been the de facto standard for audio production since the late 1980s Actually they have been around in the sixties by Sonab http://www.carlssonplanet.com/oa6i.php?lang=en&lang=en and in the seventies by Philips http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motional_Feedback and surely by others as well. Not de facto standard by that time, but the concept is old and used since long time.
Very true, but as you mention I was talking about being a de facto standard.
Puncher: wonderfulelectric: ....................you are not the most polite person around and neither is Puncher. Yes Puncher! You! Shame on you by polarizing people into niches like the nouveau riche and middle class europeans. It's not the way you categorize the two but the fact that the way you imply one is of more importance? Are you Nuts!? Especially on a forum? Thank god you don't have your pic posted up otherwise that will be social suicide! Are you on drugs???!!!!!!! I will defend to the end your (and every one else's) right to have an opinion and to publish it for general consumption despite the fact that you are talking nonsense (again)! I'm prepared to let it slide, given it may be a culture or a language thing, but my post was neither racist, classist or hifi-ist!! My point was that B&O's traditional market was middle class or professional Europeans that were long standing and repeat customers whereas they now seem to be chasing nouveau riche (at extended prices) who are buying brands and labels and would change in a heartbeat if something with a better "pose-value" came along tomorrow (for those in China and Russia who are genuine and long standing B&O fans I apologise for generalising). The danger here is that that market could disappear overnight given a change of fashion!
B&O chasing the luxury renminbi is not going so well, and their BRIC strategy is suffering. Problem being that they are trying to massage markets that know f-all about B&O, while ignoring the feed-back from markets where people knew the brand well.
So Puncher has this right down to the dotted i's and crossed t's. Unfortunately, Mantoni's crew has decided to stick with the BRIC-strategy, chasing money in Dubai, emerging economies, etc - where the luxury sophistication quotient starts with gold toilet paper holders.It's a complete mystery to me how people who didn't know or respect the B&O brand well came to be running it from the mid 90s onwards. Chalk it down to the MBA-disease that has run a scythe through most businesses.
Hmmm then again you guys are assuming that all nouveau riche are alike and you guys assume that B&O is following fashion at all. B&O is not at the pulse of fashion of current trends. It obviously lacks vision and neither here nor there. Neither luxurious nor..... I blame the CEO or the fact that it is publicly traded. FYI the new generation is super discriminating quality wise so... if indeed B&O is following fashion then it should be doing well. But obviously it is not. As designer Tom Ford once mentioned in his coffee table book "fashion is to capture the zeitgeist". B&O is a wannabe.
Full disclosure. I am Chinese and might be considered nouveau riche but too bad B&O doesn't know the younger demographic at all. I mean I would rather spend on a Alexander Mcqueen runway suit than one of their new generation of speakers. At least top fashion labels would invent fabrics/materials just to showcase their latest designs. The y would spend millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars on new equipments and R&D to realize the designer's vision The internal components of B&O are cheap off the rack and the enclosures ring like crazy. They just lack the quality, built, vision etc.... B&O is dying to be honest. No balls and guts to lead the market but instead just following it. Bose can afford to be the way it is because it's cheap and they have good marketing but B&O isn't exactly cheap and the new generation is extremely discriminating in terms of quality.
The whole good is just enough ethos of B&O is not what luxury is about. No B&O speakers done so far is truly luxurious in terms of built performance or anything except for the quite decent service which is commendable. Well the new speakers from www.moosaudio.com should be what B&O should aspire to build. No compromise drivers, amplification, dacs and proprietary wireless high res link at a silly price. Sure B&O can charge their consumers higher for that kind of quality in a fancier but it's a fact none of the speakers in the B&O range approaches that kind of quality and might never will if they still follow their way of doing business. Even the Lab5s are heavily criticized by many audiophiles for their flawed dispersion pattern, artificial sound and cheap drive units. The lenses are just a marketing ploy. There is a reason why no recording studios to date use them. Plus Icepower is one of the cheapest least performing amplification there is now. Wyred 4 sound sells the an Icepower 1000watt monoblock with linear power supply for around $1000. Imagine that. PWM amplifiers are actually especially sensitive to the power supply but what do you get by paying premium for B&O ? Cheap switch mode power supplies to match with their equally cheap modules except for the Lab5s though where they use linear power supplies as evidenced by that huge transformer in it. But I must say that the latest 80 watt modules are way better sounding than the old 250 watt modules, just by looking at the distortion graphs you can see a halving of distortion in the higher frequencies. Maybe that is why the highs in A9 is less piercing despite being just as sharp as the Lab 3s?
And in case you guys are wondering what I think about the A9 - it has a good neutral balance and integration across the mids to the highs but the bass is not its strong point. It might be strong but not remotely as detailed as compared to the rest of the range. I blame it on the resonant enclosure more than anything else. And if B&O followed fashion, they would have at least included 24 bit streaming capabilities. I can't even playback some of the audiophile downloads on it. I am 25 and okay money wise and should be their target market but they are totally missing the mark. I have friends who spends tens of thousands on computers alone so.....
This reminds me of something that my parents and family used to tell me- I am really into upkeep and I take the best anti-aging products out there be it skincare or supplements. They used to tell me what would you do when you grow older and my rebut was there will always be advances in technology so why not take full advantage of the best that science has to offer now. My point is that there is no such thing as good enough because soon whatever you are doing now will no longer be good enough. Fashion and technology evolves. It is better to be safe than sorry. If you are just okay now.... It means that your 5 mins of fame is about to be over. Just like the A9. It is so going to be outdated in a couple of years or so and so is the rest of the B&O range. Design is cheap these days. The secret lies in proprietary technologies and build quality. Prada was all the craze last year but now it is out... you get my drift. People know their *** these days. B&O doesn't seem to be getting the memo. B&O isn't as easy to dispose as Bose... first there is the price and then there is the size. Sometimes I feel people in fashion know more about business than people in business. lol... But it is true... Fashionistas are actually known to save a lot more money than most contrary how the media likes to portray them,
I used to think I wouldn't be able to tell between sources, cables, software playbacks etc.... Because I grew up with B&O and that's what they tell you to think...
But ever since my visits to audiophile dealers. My mind was completely flipped upside down. The most life changing experience was when I was just casually trying to get my payments processed asap and the other dealer was demonstrating a piece of the music a couple of times over the same DAC that I was completely unfamiliar or bothered with because it was so pedestrian looking and then I thought to myself how was it possible that the sound from the first demonstration is so different from the second, was I imagining things ?I was later told that he was demoing to the client two similar Dacs where one is modded and the other was not modded and I quickly pointed out that the first demonstrated was way better from top to bottom, way easier on the ears etc..... But the client insisted that he heard no differences. It turns out the first demonstration was the Dac that was modded. It was then that I know for sure that it is not all a bunch of hoopla in the audiophile world.
I'll limit myself to pointing out an obvious fact that a lot of people miss when it comes to B&O. As a B&O customer you are like the guest in a top restaurant, sitting down to enjoy an excellent meal, without effort. As a high-end audiophile, you are in the kitchen of such a restaurant, struggling to achieve the impossible. B&O has never made any secrets of what it prefers doing, and while the company at regular intervals misses a beat and has a roller-coaster ride, as long as it stays true to this ethos, it keeps coming back.
You seem to be wishing for a post in the kitchen, and not at the best table out in front.
(I see my post-count is now 15, while it's probably around 10015, and other members will know that I do not shy away from being critical of B&O, but there's little doubt that the company through the years has gotten a lot of things exactly right when it comes to catering to people who desire effortless access to their A/V, and that's the point -- not wondering which modded DAC does or does not go with a certain wire and what raisers another wire should be suspended by to avoid the dielectric against the floor influencing the capabilities of the cryogenically treated speaker wire ...
The number of tricks being used to demonstrate differences in high-end audio are legion and highly rewarding at the cash register, particularly when it comes to passive components that are cheap to manufacture and that grow in capabilities commensurate with the price tag affixed. You'll have lots of fun finding this out.)
Watts and specs are not everything,also they are measured different ways.If you dont think meridian make good activ speakers,your ears are full of wax.Have you ever auditioned them,or only read about them?I love b&o and never try to compare,but dsp 5200,7200,8000 are awesome speakers,and to my ears outperform,beolab9 and 5.If I ever changed my music setup,I would have meridian dsp speakers.
We are obviously having a communication breakdown. You know what is funny you mentioned owing a Klimax 350 with a solos before....
I guess now you are into Meridian?
Yeah I nearly got the Meridian 8000s at a good price but then again it is only limited to the sampling rate of 96khz.
I don't think you have any idea what I was talking about pertaining to fashion. I was referring fashion as a reference to the times and trends not just clothes. What's now and what's going to be in. The zeitgeist so to speak. Ever read the economist? Herald Tribune? New Yorker? or Vanity Fair perhaps? And what era you are in? The 1950s? Leave the fashion to the wife? How misogynistic in a way. If fashion is so trivial as you seemed to imply then may I ask why luxury stocks are on the rise?
We are clearly in totally different wavelengths. And where are the pictures of the system Klimax system you said you have posted and own? And now its Meridian you are comparing with B&O? And would go for Meridian instead? Let's not mention the white elephant in the room here.
Regarding me spending the money my parents gave me? Yes what I have has to come somewhere right? It's basic Newton's law of conservation of energy. It's say it as if that rule does not apply to you. So Yes I am proud that I am the child of this cosmos and thus abide the natural laws. And thanks for even thinking of me in the terms of being "boring" and have "no social life". I bet you know what is the true meaning underneath what you wrote already.
soundproof: I'll limit myself to pointing out an obvious fact that a lot of people miss when it comes to B&O. As a B&O customer you are like the guest in a top restaurant, sitting down to enjoy an excellent meal, without effort. As a high-end audiophile, you are in the kitchen of such a restaurant, struggling to achieve the impossible. B&O has never made any secrets of what it prefers doing, and while the company at regular intervals misses a beat and has a roller-coaster ride, as long as it stays true to this ethos, it keeps coming back. You seem to be wishing for a post in the kitchen, and not at the best table out in front. (I see my post-count is now 15, while it's probably around 10015, and other members will know that I do not shy away from being critical of B&O, but there's little doubt that the company through the years has gotten a lot of things exactly right when it comes to catering to people who desire effortless access to their A/V, and that's the point -- not wondering which modded DAC does or does not go with a certain wire and what raisers another wire should be suspended by to avoid the dielectric against the floor influencing the capabilities of the cryogenically treated speaker wire ... The number of tricks being used to demonstrate differences in high-end audio are legion and highly rewarding at the cash register, particularly when it comes to passive components that are cheap to manufacture and that grow in capabilities commensurate with the price tag affixed. You'll have lots of fun finding this out.)
I agree with you on that. The fact that B&O is closing down over a hundred boutiques is a little scary. That's a huge downsize. Then again if B&O is gone I think some other company can easily swoop in to take over its place or maybe not. After all the whole high end "lifestyle" market is slowly but surely collapsing. There's always a rise and a fall. Brands disappear all the time. Sigh...
I just hope that B&O has taken my advices on their forum way back when though because the whole BeoPlay range looks strangely similar to what I might have suggested the direction B&O should take like a decade ago.