ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
This was before I changed my speakers to klimax 350p from black gloss 242 and 226 sub,the solos are in my old bv5 cabinet below the 7-40 mk5.This is my music room.Obviously you dont know english well,Read what I said IF I EVER changed my music set-up I would have meridian over b&O,in my music room only.I have B&o setups everywhere else in my house.I dont want to get into money anymore,but I would honestly be embarassed,if at 25 I had to live of my parents and for them to pay for my expensive tastes.
My family own 7 car dealerships and are millionaires,started from nothing,I can honestly say,and everyone that knows me,I have worked for everything I own,my dads to tight anyways.So to answer your question I am not envious or jealous.
,I am actually mad with myself now,for having to justify myself to you regarding my systems etc.I am open and honest in my posts regarding personal experiences, of equipment,not just a web troll,reading reviews and magazines all day,then posting about how great their life is.
Their is watch and car threads on this forum,two of my big passions more so than b&0,I dont post my collections on their as I dont want to look flash or be judged,were as you try to fit every designer brand going into as many posts as possible,talking about the same nonsense,I dont know who it impresses,but certainly not me.
Regarding fashion and women,As I work nearly 7 days a week,unlike you,she buys a lot of my clothes,as she knows my style,classic and quality from canali,zegna,boss.You see anyone can post the labels.This is the last reply to any of your posts,I am just going to reserve your nonsense from a distance in future.
As you can tell now Puncher is more a gentleman than me.his reply was polite.
wonderfulelectric:Hmmm then again you guys are assuming that all nouveau riche are alike and you guys assume that B&O is following fashion at all. B&O is not at the pulse of fashion of current trends. It obviously lacks vision and neither here nor there. Neither luxurious nor..... I blame the CEO or the fact that it is publicly traded. FYI the new generation is super discriminating quality wise so...
Youre talking about what other people are assuming...And then you're assuming that the 'new generation' are all alike... How can you speak on behalf of a whole generation..,
Off-topic, but before I answer your comment, but could you please quote properly: When you have hit "reply" the post you're responding to is in that grey area above. Select the text you want to quote (you can do it in parts), and click "quote" in the left hand corner of the grey box, and it will pop into the white box below.
butch1:Watts and specs are not everything,also they are measured different ways.
Yes, you're right. Quite a lot of hi-fi brands cheat on the scales, to make it sound like it has more wattage than it does. The Meridian M6, though, doesn't have a lot of power no matter how you twist it. Measurements aren't everything. However, with poor measurements and not a lot of power, you will have distortion. Your 30W class-A amplifier connected to passive speakers will not only measure badly, it will sound awful too. At least if you know what to listen for. If you don't, well, I guess anything and everything is just fine for your ears.
If you dont think meridian make good activ speakers,your ears are full of wax.
I make a living from my ears.I work with audio production on a daily basis, and I know enough about to know how easily one's ears can be fooled by simply playing with relative volume.
Have you ever auditioned them,or only read about them?
I have auditioned Meridians, but I must admit I haven't auditoned the M6s. I see no point in that, considering they have what amounts to a subwoofer (one in each speaker) and that the rest is taken care off by a single (one in each speaker) "full range" driver. And this is where knowledge and specs come in. You can't possible audition everything there is out there. But making a shortlist of sorts is done by specs. However, you need to know how to go about it, and not be like WonderfulElectric who takes marketing speech as gospel, until he finds a new brand with a different marketing spiel and buy wholeheartedly into that.
love b&o and never try to compare,but dsp 5200,7200,8000 are awesome speakers,and to my ears outperform,beolab9 and 5.If I ever changed my music setup,I would have meridian dsp speakers.
That is why you need to know how the ears are fooled, what specs mean, and if you don't like that, tough luck, because you might as well join WonderfulElectric when he makes daft comments such as this:
wonderfulelectric: I used to think I wouldn't be able to tell between sources, cables, software playbacks etc.... Because I grew up with B&O and that's what they tell you to think...
I used to think I wouldn't be able to tell between sources, cables, software playbacks etc.... Because I grew up with B&O and that's what they tell you to think...
butch1: This was before I changed my speakers from black gloss 242 and 226 sub,the solos are in my old bv5 cabinet below the 7-40 mk5.This is my music room.Obviously you dont know english well,Read what I said IF I EVER changed my music set-up I would have meridian over b&O,in my music room only.I have B&o setups everywhere else in my house.I dont want to get into money anymore,but I would honestly be embarassed,if at 25 I had to live of my parents and for them to pay for my expensive tastes. My family own 7 car dealerships and are millionaires,started from nothing,I can honestly say,and everyone that knows me,I have worked for everything I own,my dads to tight anyways.So to answer your question I am not envious or jealous. ,I am actually mad with myself now,for having to justify myself to you regarding my systems etc.I am open and honest in my posts regarding personal experiences, of equipment,not just a web troll,reading reviews and magazines all day,then posting about how great their life is. Their is watch and car threads on this forum,two of my big passions more so than b&0,I dont post my collections on their as I dont want to look flash or be judged,were as you try to fit every designer brand going into as many posts as possible,talking about the same nonsense,I dont know who it impresses,but certainly not me. Regarding fashion and women,As I work nearly 7 days a week,unlike you,she buys a lot of my clothes,as she knows my style,classic and quality from canali,zegna,boss.You see anyone can post the labels.This is the last reply to any of your posts,I am just going to reserve your nonsense from a distance in future. As you can tell now Puncher is more a gentleman than me.his reply was polite.
This was before I changed my speakers from black gloss 242 and 226 sub,the solos are in my old bv5 cabinet below the 7-40 mk5.This is my music room.Obviously you dont know english well,Read what I said IF I EVER changed my music set-up I would have meridian over b&O,in my music room only.I have B&o setups everywhere else in my house.I dont want to get into money anymore,but I would honestly be embarassed,if at 25 I had to live of my parents and for them to pay for my expensive tastes.
lol.... I have nothing to say except good for you
But I thought you have the Klimax speakers? Are you intending to activate the system in the future? BTW you don't buy retail. High end equipments are almost always on 30% off or you can shop secondhand online for the additional amplifiers.
Steffen: wonderfulelectric:Hmmm then again you guys are assuming that all nouveau riche are alike and you guys assume that B&O is following fashion at all. B&O is not at the pulse of fashion of current trends. It obviously lacks vision and neither here nor there. Neither luxurious nor..... I blame the CEO or the fact that it is publicly traded. FYI the new generation is super discriminating quality wise so... Youre talking about what other people are assuming...And then you're assuming that the 'new generation' are all alike... How can you speak on behalf of a whole generation..,
Sorry I am speaking of the new generation for myself and new market research and also of course from quotes from luxury brand leaders. Yes perhaps I generalized a little.
Electrified:I make a living from my ears.I work with audio production on a daily basis, and I know enough about to know how easily one's ears can be fooled by simply playing with relative volume.
Most proper auditions are db compensated.
So what is your favourite brand of active speakers?
I have only had the Linn's and ATCs so far. And of course B&Os. Linns are on their way. i find ATCs voiced a little dull and turns out it is indeed a well known fact that the treble on their speakers start rolling off by 17khz and the wide baffles aren't helping either otherwise it is pretty much perfect for active speakers. I thought I was imagining things because they were claimed to be the most accurate out there but I just couldn't get over the muted treble so.... I did my research...
What audio companies do you work for? BTW you can't really properly compare the Lab5s with other reference active speakers out there because the lab5s are voiced totally differently for a different purpose. Just tell me which recording is monitored on speakers that disperse 180 degrees from mids to highs? The problem is not with the execution of the lenses themselves but the logic behind it. The lab5s will sound too hot in the treble in any room unless you are in an anechoic chamber. In-room responses tend to matter more nowadays so you see more sealed or over damped bass alignments and also more focused mid to treble dispersion along with smoother polar response transitions in between drive units.
wonderfulelectric:Most proper auditions are db compensated.
I'm not only talking about the relative volume between speakers, but relative volume between individual drivers.
After you claiming you can tell a difference between signal and power cables, as well as claiming to be able to tell a difference between DACs playing in a different room, I'm afraid you have lost any credibility as far as reality goes.
My favourite brand of active speakers for my home is B&O BL5s and BL9s (in that order). And for close up monitors: BL3s and AVI speakers (also in that order). However, as I have alluded to, there's a reason we don't use linn's and atc. in a professional setting.
But again, there's no point in actually engaging with you, as you seem to buy into the 1980s' snake oil arguments from cable sales men.
wonderfulelectric:What audio companies do you work for?
I don't work for "an audio company" I produce audio, not audio equipment.
wonderfulelectric:BTW you can't really properly compare the Lab5s with other reference active speakers
LOL, of course you can. It's called measurements. No wonder you buy into snake oil.
wonderfulelectric: Just tell me which recording is monitored on speakers that disperse 180 degrees from mids to highs
Any recording can be monitored like that. But usually one doesn't have just one set of speakers. Think of near-field monitoring before japping about that. Secondly, take a look at far-field montors, and you will notice that most have what amounts to "horns" (i.e. very wide dispersement).
wonderfulelectric: The problem is not with the execution of the lenses themselves but the logic behind it. The lab5s will sound too hot in the treble in any room unless you are in an anechoic chamber.
You have no idea of what you're talking about.
wonderfulelectric: In-room responses tend to matter more nowadays so you see more sealed or over damped bass alignments and also more focused mid to treble dispersion along with smoother polar response transitions in between drive units.
All the words of a snake oil sales man, and no idea.
So many words, so little insight. It will balance out over time.
I've had the pleasure of "auditioning" the BL5s before leading, world-class musicians.
"I've never heard this true a treble from speakers before, it's astonishing. I've heard lots of expensive systems and come away disappointed by the badly resolved treble and exaggerated bass. This is the closest I've come to the hall."
This thread isn't going anywhere, I suspect. But I have heard and operated the Devialet. It's an interesting synthesis of Class-D and Class-A amplification and signal control, attractively packaged and with the promise of software upgrades and some interesting add-ons (such as being able to get EQ-curve adjustments for different PU/Tonearm combinations in bespoke fashion, which is not a bad idea.)
There are things there that it would have been nice to get from B&O.
Really?
I must admit the Devialet definitely look lux but the measured performance? Only 18bits of resolution and disappointing Wifi performance is definitely a no go for me. I'd rather go for the Nad M2 at 1/4 the price, maybe in a couple of years Nad will offer a successor to the M2 and by then the Zetex direct digital amplifier will reach at least 22 bit in resolution already. I think the the Devialet is more style and market ing than substance, I mean the whole hybrid technology drive stink of marketing sales hype. I wonder why no other companies are adopting the Zetex DDA amplification topology as of yet? It is superlative for a power DAC! Perhaps Nad has struck some kind of exclusive with the electronic parts manufacturer. Anyway I am sure other companies will be able to churn out similar or better amplification in time.
If you insist on PWM/ digital amplifiers check out Mola Mola - a high end brand now created by Hypex to promote their groundbreaking nCore technology. The Mola Molas at $10k each for a monoblock sure are an expensive way to introduce the nCore to the world though. I think the brand is simply created to showcase the latest amplification modules more than anything else. I mean better high frequency distortion characteristics than most conventional high end amplifiers? That's crazy for a PWM amplifier. Maybe I should commission someone to build me some DIY nCore amplifiers. I don't even know how to work a solder.
Why has't B&O come out with something like the nCore. Icepower is like the oldest commercially available digital amplifiers out there. And they did not deliver their promise on creating direct digital amplifiers. And B&O has the funding for it. I guess their CEO isn't as anal as some other CEOs out there. Way too accommodating in my opinion. If the stock prices fall low enough I might just buy enough share in the company to grant me 60% control.
The Icepower brand needs a new marketing team. Have you realized that most Icepower implementations out there are only restricted to low frequency amplifications right now? I think it is so going to be totally replaced soon. BTW I have to mention this again is anyone of you aware that Icepower is now in its third incarnation and there is an option for totally balanced operation? I don't think so...
soundproof:So many words, so little insight.
That was the phrase I was searching for, but wasn't able to dig up from the back of my mind!
Electrified: soundproof:So many words, so little insight. That was the phrase I was searching for, but wasn't able to dig up from the back of my mind!
So exactly what kind of insight are you looking for? Well you must be gaining something out of it otherwise you won't be following this thread.
Sirs, The subject is Devialet vs B&O. Tks
wonderfulelectric:So exactly what kind of insight are you looking for? Well you must be gaining something out of it otherwise you won't be following this thread
I never posted for your benefit but for other readers and participants of this thread. You just decided to spew the snake oil. Just because people respond to you, doesn't mean you're right. Especially not when they say you're wrong.
It's important for people entering into the world of audio that your bollocks doesn't stand uncountered. It's like having someone talking positively aboiut homoeopathic "remedies". Such nonsense should not be allowed to stand uncountered
Are you seriously suggesting what I think you're suggesting? That I get some kind of insight from your ramblings? Seriously? It would tie well into your delusions of grandeur when you constantly go "And I'm not getting paid for this advice" (or words to that effect) when rambling about B&O.
This is why I stopped posting on this site. After being criticised for actually calling people 'Guys' come on get real!
For me BANG&OLUFSEN will NEVER be young, inspiring and fresh. It's stuck in it's ways, it under performs and it's boring. It's an old man in todays fresh Apple, BEATS etc can do environment.
I found the place stale, backward, pretentious and quite frankly, sad with a rather selfish, self rich crowd. Certainly give Wonderfulelectric space. He has some valid points. B&O customers need to wake up to a world outside of their high margin, overpriced B&O junk!
Wow, just wow.
I appreciate and commend the posters who try to make things just a little bit better for people they will probably never meet. That being said, there is relatively little drama on BeoWorld.
Paul W: This is why I stopped posting on this site. After being criticised for actually calling people 'Guys' come on get real! For me BANG&OLUFSEN will NEVER be young, inspiring and fresh. It's stuck in it's ways, it under performs and it's boring. It's an old man in todays fresh Apple, BEATS etc can do environment. I found the place stale, backward, pretentious and quite frankly, sad with a rather selfish, self rich crowd. Certainly give Wonderfulelectric space. He has some valid points. B&O customers need to wake up to a world outside of their high margin, overpriced B&O junk!
Wow! Thanks Paul! Yeah I think B&O should totally catch on with the times. I mean even the relative new headphone brands like Beat or Dr Dre are beating B&O profit growth wise. I think we might be in an age of celebrity endorsements. And how about Molami headphones? It is high fashion meets audio. B&O should get their act together. And why isn't B&O expanding their headphone range anyway? There are $1000 headphones that sell you know. And Molami isn't exactly high performance but the build certainly is luxurious and very stylish. I think B&O might be one of the only few luxury brands whose sales are sliding.... Luxury brands are doing very well despite the economy for a reason. Apple charges premium for premium quality so..... B&O must learn to offer more for more. be a true luxury brand instead of a wannabe.
As much as I hate to see B&O go, I have plans for my own audio line. It will be quite a mix of high style, high-brow art, high performance with an added element of surprise which I shall not disclose for now. In case somebody use my ideas for evil........
PS... Not to boast of anything I have declined invites to be a brand ambassador of sorts. I am super anal plus I want to be in control of my own name. I have seen so many people whose name got sold off and it was so sad. The corporate world isn't too bothered with ethics. Although I must admit I am lucky enough to afford to decline such an invite. Sometimes the temptations can be too big.....
Dr. Dre's Beats (now owned whole by HP) is now "a luxury brand!! Ha, ha, if you hadn't already made yourself look like a know-nothing in this regard, endorsing Beats as something good, when it's just a name with no minimum specifications to back it up, sure puts the nail in that particular coffin.
You can have all the plans you want. Good luck to you. However, I doubt very many of us have even the slightest interest to "do evil" with it. Dreamers are everywhere. Besides, I have integrity, so I'd be a very poor sales man. Especially of snake oil.
I can't help but laugh at the idea that you think you'd come across as boasting because you have been offered to prostitute yourself in order to endorse products. As for you being anal (you brought it up), I can't help but notice you're not anal enough to investigate nonsensical claims, but take them at face value with all your audiophilic nonsense.
soundproof: So many words, so little insight. It will balance out over time. I've had the pleasure of "auditioning" the BL5s before leading, world-class musicians. "I've never heard this true a treble from speakers before, it's astonishing. I've heard lots of expensive systems and come away disappointed by the badly resolved treble and exaggerated bass. This is the closest I've come to the hall." This thread isn't going anywhere, I suspect. But I have heard and operated the Devialet. It's an interesting synthesis of Class-D and Class-A amplification and signal control, attractively packaged and with the promise of software upgrades and some interesting add-ons (such as being able to get EQ-curve adjustments for different PU/Tonearm combinations in bespoke fashion, which is not a bad idea.) There are things there that it would have been nice to get from B&O.
Welcome back Soundproof. I have never posted much as I stick to only those topics that I know (not many), but have lurked around here with varying frequency for at least 10 years. I have always enjoyed your contributions. If it takes threads like this to bring you back, I'm all for it :)
Stan
@WE
The reason your posts are received so poorly is that this is a B&O site, the vast majority are owners, all but a vey few realise that they are in trouble and most know the main reasons why - they have been discussed at length many times ....... what they are not interested in reading is a long series of repetitve posts quoting marketing literature, sales leaflet and, highly dubious pseudo-technical claims from boutique hifi manufacturers that pander to a different market segment. Also, and it may be a cultural thing but, quoting long lists of supposed luxury brand names and manufacturers from other product types (clothes etc) not only doesn't impress the readers here (with perhaps one or two exceptions) its actually percieved as a real annoyance!
You are young, wealthy and have probably received a very expensive education - I would urge you to use it and actively question everything these people tell you, rather than believe you are correct because these people agree with you!!! You are living in "Emporers new clothes" land and there is an unending queue of people waiting to take your money whilst agreeing with everything you say.
I wish you all the very best in your business venture but please make sure it is limited liability company and be very wary of the sorts of people I mentioned above. I can only hope your business acumen outstrips your judgement on matters hifi.
Ban boring signatures!
Electrified: Dr. Dre's Beats (now owned whole by HP) is now "a luxury brand!! Ha, ha, if you hadn't already made yourself look like a know-nothing in this regard, endorsing Beats as something good, when it's just a name with no minimum specifications to back it up, sure puts the nail in that particular coffin. You can have all the plans you want. Good luck to you. However, I doubt very many of us have even the slightest interest to "do evil" with it. Dreamers are everywhere. Besides, I have integrity, so I'd be a very poor sales man. Especially of snake oil. I can't help but laugh at the idea that you think you'd come across as boasting because you have been offered to prostitute yourself in order to endorse products. As for you being anal (you brought it up), I can't help but notice you're not anal enough to investigate nonsensical claims, but take them at face value with all your audiophilic nonsense.
Exactly what is snake oil to you Electrified ? In case you haven't notice I am a firm believer in measurements. Devialet might have been well received by the press but I did not buy into the hype one bit. My instincts tell me there is something inherently flawed in hybrid designs. And yes indeed Puncher I am better received at an audiophile forum. No idea what's with the hostility here. Not all are hostile though.... strangely enough only the ones who follow closely are the ones.
My point is those brands I mentioned know how to market themselves. And yes they are luxury brands with headphones better built with plenty costlier than B&O's headphones. Andy Warhol predicted the celebrity culture so there you go...
I might not be the authority in luxury... But I am quite a firm believer in it. I think it reduces waste and the increased likelihood that the workers getting paid well comforts me too. I declined the chance of being a creative director of something major because it went against the grain of my vision ... not just as a muse. What I am trying to say is that if B&O took my advices way back when..... it might not have been too late. I suggested finishes other than flashy aluminum way before they introduced the Lab5s. Anyway stop following my posts I don't care for your insults which you have clearly given plenty.
Gosh sometimes the tone over here transports me back to my years as a child who ends up getting into fights all for something trivial.
Review you posts Electrified.... and perhaps try to be mindful of your over aggressiveness of tone and language. Find out why...
Welcome back Paul W,the place has not been the same.
Puncher: @WE The reason your posts are received so poorly is that this is a B&O site, the vast majority are owners, all but a vey few realise that they are in trouble and most know the main reasons why - they have been discussed at length many times ....... what they are not interested in reading is a long series of repetitve posts quoting marketing literature, sales leaflet and, highly dubious pseudo-technical claims from boutique hifi manufacturers that pander to a different market segment. Also, and it may be a cultural thing but, quoting long lists of supposed luxury brand names and manufacturers from other product types (clothes etc) not only doesn't impress the readers here (with perhaps one or two exceptions) its actually percieved as a real annoyance! You are young, wealthy and have probably received a very expensive education - I would urge you to use it and actively question everything these people tell you, rather than believe you are correct because these people agree with you!!! You are living in "Emporers new clothes" land and there is an unending queue of people waiting to take your money whilst agreeing with everything you say. I wish you all the very best in your business venture but please make sure it is limited liability company and be very wary of the sorts of people I mentioned above. I can only hope your business acumen outstrips your judgement on matters hifi.
Thanks... I just thought B&O should be aware that the closed system "lifestyle" approach they are taking will not be working any longer. I think there is a reason behind why Meridian and Linn are willing to offer me their speakers at such steep discounts. The Meridian salesman was really pushing the DSP8000 at half price.
And what is B&O anyway what is the essence as you call it behind it? Is it just electronics? Is it just fashion? Is it just style? Doesn't it too follow the rule of the times we live in ? And what is fashion exactly? And what is luxury what defines luxury? All I am trying to put across here is that one thought does not exit without the coexistence of another. So to dispel... other things beyond what you define as the "scope" of B&O......
Anyway I am boring people here I shall never return. Toys are just toys or are they?
Okay, I'll indulge you for once, because you still seem to get even the basics. After this post, I'll revert back to not actually have a "discussion" with you.
wonderfulelectric:Exactly what is snake oil to you Electrified ?
I have already told you that. If you understood what you wrote, you wouldn't have to ask. On the other hand, you wouldn't have the opinions you have if you knew the first thing about audio, or critical thinking, for that matter.
wonderfulelectric:In case you haven't notice I am a firm believer in measurements.
Nope, you're not. Then you wouldn't claim that signal and power cables meant a lot, that you could tell from a room next door that you could differentiate between two DACs, nor would you claim that Dr. Dre's (now HP's) "Beats" was something to aspire to (and now that I have your attention, Beats and Dr. Dre isn't two brands. Beats was the brain child of Dr. Dre and he sold it HP). In fact, I don't feel like repeating almost every claim you have made in this tread, because that it what would be needed. Instead I refer you to re-read the thread, and perhaps in time you will understand, just how much you have bought into snake oil.
wonderfulelectric:Devialet might have been well received by the press but I did not buy into the hype one bit.
But you have shown yourself to buy into everything else. In fact, you even used it as an argument against B&O, because "they" would have you believe that cables doesn't mean anything (assuming, of course, they're of adequate gauge, which doesn't take much), not realising we're talking about the laws of physics.
You're as critical thinking as a creationist who just goes nuh-uh in the face of evidence, and thinks that constitutes critical thinking.
wonderfulelectric: My instincts tell me there is something inherently flawed in hybrid designs
Not necessarily (potentially, yes, but not necessarily). It's sort of the same problem as with crossovers. Active vs. passive. Unless you run an actual full-range driver, you can't get rid of crossovers entirely. However, the limitations of full range drivers makes an active design almost perfect in comparison (measurements, see).
wonderfulelectric: And yes indeed Puncher I am better received at an audiophile forum
Of course you are, you're parroting the idiotic audiophilic snake oil with claims of hearing that not only would be golden, but would make a mockery of the laws of physics if it were possible. You know, claims of hearing a difference between power cables and signal cables etc. Things that can't be measured, and things that noone has been able to replicate in a proper blind test. Hell, a lot of "audiophiles" even think their record player or tape player is better than a digital file, that their passive speakers is better than the best active designs, and that their tube amplifier with an impressive 50 watts is much better than the best solid state amplifiers. Audiophiles even buy "cable lifters" to keep their speaker cables ten inches above the ground, buy a "sonic clock" which is supposed to "sync" your digital music, and quite a lot of those people have written raving reviews of such products.
wonderfulelectric:No idea what's with the hostility here.
No, you obviously have no idea as to why that is.
wonderfulelectric: Not all are hostile though.... strangely enough only the ones who follow closely are the ones.
What does that even mean? The ones engaging you and countered your nonsense is of course the ones "following" the discussion, as they are part of it!!
wonderfulelectric:My point is those brands I mentioned know how to market themselves
So does McDonald's. In other words, you're now saying that it's all about marketing whether something is "luxury", and I notice you have now completely swapped the notion of "accurate audio reproduction" with "better marketing". I guess, when you have been shown to be wrong on all other counts, let's talk about the marketing of a particular brand.
wonderfulelectric:And yes they are luxury brands with headphones better built with plenty costlier than B&O's headphones.
I don't buy B&O headphones for accurate reproduction or monitoring. Once again you try to move the goal posts. We were talking about active speakers, and you find an accessory product (in B&O context) to cover over the fact that you thought that Beats were something to aspire to quality wise.
wonderfulelectric:Andy Warhol predicted the celebrity culture so there you go..
Yes, there I go. I couldn't give a rat's *** about what Andy Warhol predicted. He knew very little about audio production and reproduction and has been dead for decades. You don't actually his non-prediction somehow lends credit to anything you have said, do you?
wonderfulelectric:I might not be the authority in luxury... But I am quite a firm believer in it. I think it reduces waste and the increased likelihood that the workers getting paid well comforts me too.
Funny, you seem to be unaware of sweatshops. But it's still irrelevant in this context, when we talk about audio reproduction.
wonderfulelectric:I declined the chance of being a creative director of something major because it went against the grain of my vision
Oh, so now you were offered to be "creative director of something major". "Boasting" about you being approached to push products didn't succeed in impressing us, so you step it up a notch, in the hope that will impress us suitably. I'm sorry, but there's way to many of you out there who thinks they could do any job and that they are really wanted. But let's say that was actually true (I don't believe it one bit), what makes you think that would lend you any credence in this discussion about accurate audio (re-)production, and you buying into snake oil and sales tactics?
wonderfulelectric:not just as a muse
Wow, the delusions of grandeur aren't keeping you down, are they?
wonderfulelectric:What I am trying to say is that if B&O took my advices way back when..... it might not have been too late.
Ah, yes, the advice from someone who doesn't know the first thing about audio production and reproduction.
wonderfulelectric: I suggested finishes other than flashy aluminum way before they introduced the Lab5s
Ah, yes, the most important thing is suggesting finishes. You realise that the BL5s have a lot of aluminium, right? And that B&O are some of the best when it comes to finishing aluminium, right? Oh, that's right, flashy plastic like Beats have is much, much better.
wonderfulelectric:Anyway stop following my posts I don't care for your insults which you have clearly given plenty.
Well, each and every one of them has been well deserved. Had I been talking to you in real life, you would be amazed at just how harsh I'd come across.
wonderfulelectric:Gosh sometimes the tone over here transports me back to my years as a child who ends up getting into fights all for something trivial.
It's a shame you haven't learned how to listen, then. If you had, then you'd know exactly why I, for one, have lost patience with you.
wonderfulelectric:Review you posts Electrified.... and perhaps try to be mindful of your over aggressiveness of tone and language. Find out why...
I have no qualms about being aggressive towards ignorance. You are ignorant of most anything pertaining to audio, but you have learned a few words and think that those words carry some kind of magical power. They don't. You need to understand the reality behind those words, otherwise you're just talking nonsense.
I have already explained why I counter the nonsense you spew. It's not so much that I care about you (I really don't), I care that the drivel you utter doesn't stand uncountered. Audiophilic nonsense, fortunately has had its heyday, and I don't want that kind of superstition and general ignorance to come back as it was in 1980s. I think persistent ignorance, regardless of what the evidence says, should be met with scorn, because that is what it deserves. Especially when the ignorance is used (by the merchants) to pull money out of unsuspecting people.
wonderfulelectric: Anyway I am boring people here I shall never return. Toys are just toys or are they?
I work with audio for a living, so that shows just how much you have been able to understand. To me, speakers, amplifers etc. aren't exactly toys. They're a necessity.
But, in any case, I'm glad you're gone.
I'm not really in the mood to go through all the erroneous claims and statements made in this thread, but will satisfy myself with this: Class-D is not digital amplification, and ICEpower are not "digital amplifiers."
Since something that basic isn't sorted, then why bother? The Hypex Ncore topology is very interesting, and does address the pre-ringing problem, among other things. That's good.As ICEpower is doing well, we should expect further developments from that camp. Competition is also good.
wonderfulelectric:What I am trying to say is that if B&O took my advices way back when..... it might not have been too late. I suggested finishes other than flashy aluminum way before they introduced the Lab5s.
As the Lab 5's were introduced in 2003 that would make it "way before" you were ~15 years old!! That's either very, very impressive or complete and utter bollocks!
I would go with the bollocks.
Yep, like all the rest of his, well, bollocks.
Well - just because it is 'luxury' -or just expensive, doesn't nescessarily mean that the workers are 'paid well'. A lot of 'luxury' brands are actually manufactured in China, India, Indonesia or other low cost countries, just to maximize profits...
How about some well known 'american' jeans -manufactured in China along with other 'no name' jeans that cost one tenth or less in the stores.-or the iPhones...made in China...
So much for the 'workers getting payed well'...
butch1:I would go with the bollocks.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Anyone here remember when Joly of Joly loudspeaker "fame" (or infamy) was haunting the Usenet audio forums? Wonderfulelectric gives me a strong sense of deja moo* for Joly.
* déjà moo - the strange feeling you've seen this BS before.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Well, WonderfulElectric isn't all off the map with his comments, and there is quite a lot in high-end audio that isn't rubbish, but I personally appreciate the integrity with which B&O has gone about finding ways to deliver very credible and natural sounding playback, without resorting to audiophool mumbo-jumbo.
When I was doing projects for B&O, we asked about the audiophile predilection for wrist-caliber speaker wire costing tens of thousands of dollars, and why B&O wasn't capitalizing on this willingness to shell out for passive components."It wouldn't be truthful," was the simple answer we got. And then the head of audio revealed that they would often get queries from manufacturers of more expensive wire who wanted to collaborate with B&O, "to improve playback." Some had been invited to demonstrate the superiority of their products by picking it out in blind tests at B&O's facility, with no one managing do do so to date.
A lot of high-enders haven't understood the significant benefit of sending a line-level signal direct to the loudspeaker, for processing there, compared to the traditional audiophile signal chain.And most curious of all, in high-end audio, breaking the signal chain up into as many stages as is possible, before the signal reaches the transducer that converts signal into sound, makes perfect sense, in spite of being illogical and obviously a way of increasing the required spend for a system.
Still, without high-end audio I would miss out on a lot of good laughs - and some good products, as long as one knows how to navigate the strange claims being made at times.
Audiophiles.
I recently had a Mcintosh Men220 at home to demo. It's a 2 channel room correction system. I have a system in my living room where placing acoustic panels, bass traps, etc is not ideal. The room is an acoustical nightmare with hardwood floors and floor to ceiling windows without treatments. The Men220 was unbelievable, the sound completely transformed and my living room system sounded truly hi end with nice, tight bass and spacious soundstage.
Now I have to credit my local audio dealer because they first had me demo a DAC which is far cheaper in the hopes that it would improve my sound. It didn't make a lick of difference.
In any case, I went to a well known audiophile forum to ask about the Mcintosh's competitors. The Mcintosh is 4500 USD and there are 2 channel alternatives that are much cheaper.
So what do these imbeciles have to say? Well, most frown upon room correction in general because it upsets the "purity" of the signal. They mention extra ADA conversions and other such nonsense forgetting that most of what they listen to has likely been through thousands of such conversions in the studio.
They talk about swapping cables, changing preamps, changing DACS, adding tubes, moving components, changing speakers, changing amps, and other ridiculous crap. Purity of the signal my ass. These are the same people who will use an upsampling CD player, pass the signal to a preamp, then pass it along to an upsampling DAC, then to some distortion ridden tube amp and then finally to their speakers. They are so full of ****.
beoinbuff: forgetting that most of what they listen to has likely been through thousands of such conversions in the studio.
Although I agree completely with the rest of your post, this sentence isn't quite true. When it has arrived digitally, I don't make it analogue, and then record that to digital again. Especially not "thousands" of times. With that said, and if I did, it would happen with 24 bit resolution on the digital end, so not the same problem as with a 16 bit cd/flac (or whatever) track.
As for purity, you're so right I could cry. Going through tube amps and usually ending up using passive speakers is not exactly "pure".
As for bass-traps, I prefer to do without them, if I can otherwise fix the problem (at home). I really don't want my home look like a studio.
Electrified,
I stand corrected re studio DA conversions. I'm glad you agree with the other parts, though
I definitely agree, the speaker, the room, and their interaction are where most problems occur. The high end crowd by and large obsess over minutiae while ignoring the elephant that is the room. Signal purity! Whata hoot, but it's the same mentality that eschews tone controls and will spend lots of time listening to music they may not really like much because it's so well recorded. That's one thing I really enjoyed about the Beosound 9000 when I got it, remote control of tone controls that seemed to be smartly designed to allow small but significant improvements to real world recordings. CD mastered a bit bright? One click down on treble fixes most of them.
DSP room correction and multichannel audio are the areas where real improvement will come from, not another wire or tweako amp topology. But these are also areas where most of the audiophile favored small cottage industry types of firms will have little chance of doing, it'll be the larger firms many of them seem to love to hate.
Puncher: wonderfulelectric:What I am trying to say is that if B&O took my advices way back when..... it might not have been too late. I suggested finishes other than flashy aluminum way before they introduced the Lab5s. As the Lab 5's were introduced in 2003 that would make it "way before" you were ~15 years old!! That's either very, very impressive or complete and utter bollocks!
Ewww.... I was just revisiting this post to see whether you guys would "leave" "my posts" alone.... Yes I posted my suggestions way before Lab5s were introduced in their IDEA land/ forum when they had it then... Do they still have it now?.... I remember B&O celebrating an anniversary of sorts around the time when I bought my own first B&O product ( the hook earphones). And I remember purchasing the Beosound 2 that wasn't compatible with the AIFF files I have on my mac so I converted my files into WAV. How many years ago was that? OMG I was 16 cos I remember bringing it to school to show it off. lol... I found out about www.nacsound.it and thought they looked fantastic and thought that speakers can be ceramic or even resin as used in the original Apple Hifi to great effect both acoustically and aesthetically so I suggested other materials than just those aluminum used in the column range.Back then there was another brand from Denmark that was making columnar aluminum loudspeakers with designs akin to the Lab8000s so.... I thought it was a good idea to introduce designs that are not so widely imitated.... Funny thing I remember the moderator from B&O's forum actually responded by saying that the feedbacks will be taken into consideration etc... Way back when I was 8 when my mom had a Beosound 2300 with matching lab2500s later the lab 6000s then 9000s with 8000s and Beosound 1..... I grew up with B&O in a way.
And Electrified I have never dismissed you not knowing anything about sound etc.... So what's with the defensiveness? Why so personal? So I presume you are the authority in accurate music production? And why is your argument against people being 'audiophiles" surround only in areas pertaining "passive driven loudspeakers" and "cables". Why do professionals mainly require balanced amplification/termination/ cabling then? BTW as of now no B&O active speakers I know accept balanced inputs. It is the most cost effective way to shield signal from interference and yet...
So I know nothing? Well thanks for that implication.... because I am sure you know what "nothing" also means.
What's with the attacks? They are unbelievable... And Electrified... Again many not all audiophiles can simply be dismissed as believers in " snake oil" most of them active drive their loudspeakers in full digital mode with DSP etc.You might not be way off about how some audiophiles prefer the euphony of tube amps and passive loudspeakers but not all are....
I remember following the thread of one audiophile's venture to find the right system for him... He contemplated between the Lab5s and B&W 800 diamonds back and forth even went for extended auditions but he went for the B&Ws with Classe amplification instead. And yes B&W's midrange is depressed and voiced in a certain way and so are the Lab5s... The treble is obviously hot and the dispersion characteristic will not work for many rooms. In the previous posts It's like you were trying to implicate that all audiophiles are into passive speakers?huh? I know tons who are into active loudspeakers who consider themselves as audiophiles too.
We are in obviously in different wavelengths.
What I like in the audiophile forum is that they are open to suggestions and are even aware to their own individual preferences that might be away from the absolute reference which non and I should repeat non of the B&O active loudspeakers represent. And I am not saying nobody should not like B&O loudspeakers just because they are not references. I own quite a bit of B&O gear FYI and I am certain that most of them are very voiced and have a smiley response and yet do possess their own charms.
I am sure that it is because you guys felt so sure of yourself and that was why you started with the "attacks".
And Butch1. You don't have the Klimax 350p you claimed in another thread but instead you have the 242s so..... I am sure you can extrapolate what I am trying to put across from here.