ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
beoinbuff: Audiophiles. I recently had a Mcintosh Men220 at home to demo. It's a 2 channel room correction system. I have a system in my living room where placing acoustic panels, bass traps, etc is not ideal. The room is an acoustical nightmare with hardwood floors and floor to ceiling windows without treatments. The Men220 was unbelievable, the sound completely transformed and my living room system sounded truly hi end with nice, tight bass and spacious soundstage. Now I have to credit my local audio dealer because they first had me demo a DAC which is far cheaper in the hopes that it would improve my sound. It didn't make a lick of difference. In any case, I went to a well known audiophile forum to ask about the Mcintosh's competitors. The Mcintosh is 4500 USD and there are 2 channel alternatives that are much cheaper. So what do these imbeciles have to say? Well, most frown upon room correction in general because it upsets the "purity" of the signal. They mention extra ADA conversions and other such nonsense forgetting that most of what they listen to has likely been through thousands of such conversions in the studio. They talk about swapping cables, changing preamps, changing DACS, adding tubes, moving components, changing speakers, changing amps, and other ridiculous crap. Purity of the signal my ass. These are the same people who will use an upsampling CD player, pass the signal to a preamp, then pass it along to an upsampling DAC, then to some distortion ridden tube amp and then finally to their speakers. They are so full of ****.
Audiophiles.
I recently had a Mcintosh Men220 at home to demo. It's a 2 channel room correction system. I have a system in my living room where placing acoustic panels, bass traps, etc is not ideal. The room is an acoustical nightmare with hardwood floors and floor to ceiling windows without treatments. The Men220 was unbelievable, the sound completely transformed and my living room system sounded truly hi end with nice, tight bass and spacious soundstage.
Now I have to credit my local audio dealer because they first had me demo a DAC which is far cheaper in the hopes that it would improve my sound. It didn't make a lick of difference.
In any case, I went to a well known audiophile forum to ask about the Mcintosh's competitors. The Mcintosh is 4500 USD and there are 2 channel alternatives that are much cheaper.
So what do these imbeciles have to say? Well, most frown upon room correction in general because it upsets the "purity" of the signal. They mention extra ADA conversions and other such nonsense forgetting that most of what they listen to has likely been through thousands of such conversions in the studio.
They talk about swapping cables, changing preamps, changing DACS, adding tubes, moving components, changing speakers, changing amps, and other ridiculous crap. Purity of the signal my ass. These are the same people who will use an upsampling CD player, pass the signal to a preamp, then pass it along to an upsampling DAC, then to some distortion ridden tube amp and then finally to their speakers. They are so full of ****.
DSP is all the rage nowadays. Check out Dspeaker. But you have a point - I still have my reservations on converting my signal from D/A back to Digital and then back to analog again. I know the losses might be very minimal and with digital crossover the gains might be more than the losses but I have too much anxiety for that. I was planning on purchasing active loudspeakers from Salagar (a company now defunct) but because Salagar only accepts analogue inputs and do DSP internally it was definitely a no go for me so I went with ATCs instead.
So beoinbuff do you mainly have analogue sources? I don't so I'd rather go for DSP prior to D/A conversion. I have not found an automated purely digital in and out processor as of yet , most of them throw in D/A and A/D which are features I do not require and so far only 24bit/96khz output only . And the DsPeaker only offers correction up to 500hz I think? Do you know of any component that function only as an automated room DSP?
To each his own... Some are purist and some admittedly are not.... They would post in forums saying out loud that they prefer inserting and extra stage of tube pre-amplification for some added distortion in between their high end D/A and power amplifiers.
I am more of the purist type thus direct from DAC to active loudspeaker. According to the designer of the TotalDac who I asked the question why he limited his digital crossover to a maximum 18db (extremely gentle) crossovers instead of the steep 48db - 68db slope that most digital crossover modules are capable of doing ( I was planning of building a custom pair os DSP speakers based on TAD drivers which are used in the studios) he mentioned about digital ringing.... the steeper the filter the more the ringing which made sense since he is all about minimizing that in his DAC. It's a little off topic but apparently maybe sometimes active crossovers combined with DSP room correction is abetter way to go. And that is actually the design that the Lab5s are based upon. I used to think that the Lab5s used digital crossovers like Meridian loudspeakers but I was wrong.
So just in case if anybody is wondering I did not go ahead and built the TAD based active speakers. I am way too much an amateur to execute own active crossovers etc...... And one TAD compression driver might cost as much as $4500 and that is excluding the required horn! Too major for an amateur to take on. So Electrified if you are an expert like you claimed I bet you can easily aid me in the design or perhaps it is too lowly a project with too lowly a person for you?
To Electrified, Butch1 and Puncher
I am sure I rubbed off on you guys the wrong way for a valid reason. I am sorry things got this way.
Duplicate post
BeoBoy68: Sirs, The subject is Devialet vs B&O. Tks
Sirs, The subject is Devialet vs B&O. Tks
LOL indeed. I think Icepower has more potential than Devialet. Devialet can't even deliver to its promised power rating without shutting down and the resolution and wifi interference... What a joke for an amplifier so expensive and hyped up. I do admire the luxurious take on the finnish on the all in one amplifier though.
If IcePower can elevate its standard up to the latest Hypex Ncore standard then I would say its a slam dunk.
Electrified: wonderfulelectric:BTW you can't really properly compare the Lab5s with other reference active speakers LOL, of course you can. It's called measurements. No wonder you buy into snake oil.
wonderfulelectric:BTW you can't really properly compare the Lab5s with other reference active speakers
LOL, of course you can. It's called measurements. No wonder you buy into snake oil.
What I meant is in-room response. Some reference speakers are meant to measure very well in anechoic chambers and some in-room. And some like the ridiculously expensive Cabasse is supposed to emulate point source albeit you will have to put up with the horrible ringing DSP filters that is...
Again no offends but I know where you are coming from most reference speakers will measure worse than the B&O off axis and B&O's built-in bass correction is a welcomed add-on. Then again it is no point source and the bass enclosure is known to vibrate. So in terms of cabinet resonance suppression.....
And PS... when the Lab5s were first released I praised them for their excellent polar response amongst other things such as polar response and distortion ratings. I even posted a clipping of the measurements taken by Hifi News of the Lab5s for goodness sake.
That was before I found out about the recent BMR drivers which is way more ideal than the acoustic lenses featured on the Lab 5s that is.... but lets not go down that path again.... Obviously you are a big fan of the Lab 5s and have great passion for them.
And Butch1. You don't have the Klimax 350p you claimed in another thread but instead you have the 242s so..... I am sure you can extrapolate what I am trying to put across from here.
this was before I changed my speakers to klimax 350p from black gloss 242 and 226 sub,the solos are in my old bv5 cabinet below the 7-40 mk5.This is my music room.Obviously you dont know english well,Read what I said IF I EVER changed my music set-up I would have meridian over b&O,in my music room only.I have B&o setups everywhere else in my house.I dont want to get into money anymore,but I would honestly be embarassed,if at 25 I had to live of my parents and for them to pay for my expensive tastes.
read the first sentence,from my thread with picture.You need glasses aswell.
butch1: this was before I changed my speakers to klimax 350p from black gloss 242 and 226 sub,the solos are in my old bv5 cabinet below the 7-40 mk5.This is my music room.Obviously you dont know english well,Read what I said IF I EVER changed my music set-up I would have meridian over b&O,in my music room only.I have B&o setups everywhere else in my house.I dont want to get into money anymore,but I would honestly be embarassed,if at 25 I had to live of my parents and for them to pay for my expensive tastes. read the first sentence,from my thread with picture.You need glasses aswell.
Thanks for getting personal yet again. Oh never mind... Good for you that you are getting the kick out of it !
You insisted that I take a look at your system so shouldn't you be glad that I was?
I second that you are "self-made".
I must admit I do feel a little ashamed with living off them. I do have a 5 yr plan for myself. Thanks for making me more aware of that fact. But sometimes I do wonder what is there to be "ashamed" off? The parasitic nature of my mere existence?
Again Newton's law of conservation of energy applies to all of this dimension. This is veering way off topic but I just had to let this one bit out.
Perhaps its because you remind me of the many that I struggled to have a balanced relationship with.
You must be kidding!? Do you expect working people to write a response to each and every nonsensical claim you got wrong in your extremely long and many posts?
One could, of course, select only one sentence from each, as you have done with my post, where you ignored everything else where you had been shown wrong. But that would most likely make you accuse me of being "selective".
In any case, you're a tosser, a troll, who knows nothing, and at the same time suffers from delusions of grandeur. Crawl back into the hole of audiophiles. You yourself claimed they were so welcoming of you.
Oh, and as for "getting personal". It's because you have made a fool of yourself, yet maintain the delusions of grandeur. Of course people don't suffer such things with a smile. So, as for getting personal: You're most welcome. It is deserved.
Electrified:You must be kidding!? Do you expect working people to write a response to each and every nonsensical claim you got wrong in your extremely long and many posts?
Well you certainly are aren't you? Case in point. You responded my post on the other thread with lightning speed. What's this some love hate thing?
wonderfulelectric: Electrified:You must be kidding!? Do you expect working people to write a response to each and every nonsensical claim you got wrong in your extremely long and many posts? Well you certainly are aren't you?
Well you certainly are aren't you?
How do you figure that, since I wasn't responding to the, oh, about ten posts, many of which excessively long, you posted during the last 12-16 hours? Do you honestly think that I have explained and hit on everything you have wrong? Sheesh! Are your comprehension that of a 12 year old?
Case in point. You responded my post on the other thread with lightning speed. What's this some love hate thing?
How is that "case in point"? Did I respond to you, point by point, with most every sentence in those long posts of yours, often being so off-the-wall that they're not even wrong (i.e. they're so wrong, they're not even in ballpark of having a fighting chance of being right)? Now, did I?
I like how you now pair your delusions of grandeur with paranoid delusions. I logged in and viewed "active threads", and clicked on those I had partaken in. Surprise, surprise, you were back, this time spewing at least as much nonsense as before.
Are you able to comprehend this post, or is that too beyond your comprehension skills?
Right electrified,puncher and others,we have to stop replying to wonderfulelectrics posts,I am as guilty as any,I should not let a jobless little spoilt boy wind me up.having to prove to him what systems I have,I know what I have got I should not need to prove it with pictures if doubted.
He is doing this to wind us all up,as he has nothing better to do.Do we really want some know it all quoting audiphile jargon,quoted from magazines on our forum.I dont mind mentioning other brands,I am as guilty as any,but this is getting beyond the joke.A troll will always be a troll.
butch1: Right electrified,puncher and others,we have to stop replying to wonderfulelectrics posts,I am as guilty as any,I should not let a jobless little spoilt boy wind me up.having to prove to him what systems I have,I know what I have got I should not need to prove it with pictures if doubted. He is doing this to wind us all up,as he has nothing better to do.Do we really want some know it all quoting audiphile jargon,quoted from magazines on our forum.I dont mind mentioning other brands,I am as guilty as any,but this is getting beyond the joke.A troll will always be a troll.
butch1:Right electrified,puncher and others,we have to stop replying to wonderfulelectrics posts
Agreed
Goodness! What a thread! Please keep things civilised here. I don't think anyone should have to justify themselves - anyone is entitled to an opinion - that is what a forum is for! Clearly some people will not agree with others, but that is fine! Please keep things polite - you may well find that you can disagree with another member but still find that he is a perfectly friendly chap. You may well become friends! Don't insult people and you will find that life is that much better!! No matter what speakers you have!
Peter
Thats fine peter,I understand you are trying to mellow the situation.I agree everyone is entitled to an opinion,its when they start preaching rubbish as gospel,about things not connected with the thread or forum.
I would not go onto a BMW forum and start preaching MERCEDES technology is better.I come on here to talk about B&O,I go onto LINN forum to talk about LINN,and so on.
I come on here, as you dont get the snake oil rubbish,audiophile jargon.I love music,thats why I buy music systems to listen to music,not sit and listen for faults, and what power cable to upgrade to or dac etc.
My music room system to many is a high-end audiophile setup,I have never touched it since installed,and I use the cables that came with it,I like simple systems that produce excellent performance,but must look good aswell to keep my wife happy,thats why B&o is all over the house.
My dealer and family friend for B&o and linn has been in the trade for years and has a fantastic reputation,he even says himself, that cables costing £££££££££s and other snake oil,is a waste of money and is marketed for the obsessive,but brings in good money,as they are always upgrading.
Thats why I dont like being preached to about( B&o should use this technolog)y,this technology is better, because the tech labs say so,or the magazines say so.
My ears dont lie,I know what sound I like.
Electrified: butch1:Right electrified,puncher and others,we have to stop replying to wonderfulelectrics posts Agreed
Oh good for you to think that I had the power to wind you guys up,provoke those insults and personal attacks. What credit you guys are giving me!
And Butch1 I even tried to accept your shaming but apparently you went on and added the word troll. Well I am not remotely the best looking person in the world but..... troll? Oh well to each his own.
If I am a troll I definitely want to be one of the trolls in "The Troll in Central Park". Funny I actually stayed by Central park. Maybe I am a troll. lol
I genuinely wanted friendly exchanges. Well I can't have everyone like me obviously!
The ganging up. Very interesting conclusion can be reached if you dissect this scenario from literary, historical and psychological points of view.
( I will like to edit my previous post the age that I first had the B&O experience from 8 to 4. Gosh my mother was way ahead of the curve! She bought the Beocenter 2300 system way back when it was released in 1991! I remember that now cos I was 4 when I moved to Singapore and I remember working it while she is away on long business trips.)
wonderfulelectric:Anyway I am boring people here I shall never return.
Don't promise something you can't keep...
Steffen: wonderfulelectric:Anyway I am boring people here I shall never return. Don't promise something you can't keep...
Sorry did that sentence imply a promise? Or is that something you simply infer?
butch1: Thats fine peter,I understand you are trying to mellow the situation.I agree everyone is entitled to an opinion,its when they start preaching rubbish as gospel,about things not connected with the thread or forum. I would not go onto a BMW forum and start preaching MERCEDES technology is better.I come on here to talk about B&O,I go onto LINN forum to talk about LINN,and so on. I come on here, as you dont get the snake oil rubbish,audiophile jargon.I love music,thats why I buy music systems to listen to music,not sit and listen for faults, and what power cable to upgrade to or dac etc. My music room system to many is a high-end audiophile setup,I have never touched it since installed,and I use the cables that came with it,I like simple systems that produce excellent performance,but must look good aswell to keep my wife happy,thats why B&o is all over the house. My dealer and family friend for B&o and linn has been in the trade for years and has a fantastic reputation,he even says himself, that cables costing £££££££££s and other snake oil,is a waste of money and is marketed for the obsessive,but brings in good money,as they are always upgrading. Thats why I dont like being preached to about( B&o should use this technolog)y,this technology is better, because the tech labs say so,or the magazines say so. My ears dont lie,I know what sound I like.
Spoken by a man who insisted on me looking at his Linn system on a B&O forum.
And where are the pictures of the system Klimax system you said you have posted and own? And now its Meridian you are comparing with B&O And would go for Meridian instead? Let's not mention the white elephant in the room here.
Hi guys,it was me ,who should be priviilaged for wonderfulelectric,to find the time to look at my linn system on a B&O forum,I insisted he look at it?.
This statement was from his earlier post
.It looks like he was asking me!
Silly me for posting a picture of a b&o tv and cabinet but with linn speakers,I will post long and boring threads about other companiies in future,or move other brands out of the photo, fellow beoworlders.lol
Not to mention that some of "his" equipment isn't up and running, because - as he went - "my place is being renovated".
Coming from a bloke living at home, that is just outright funny.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Chris Townsend:Mock as you might, I'd laugh my head off of his "parents place" was a 20,000 foot palace.
If his parent's place was a 20,000 foot palace (it would be a small palace), he would be able to have his Oppo player up and running, while "his place" was being renovated. And if it was a palace, and it was being completely rebuild, I bet his parents could afford to rent another house while the renovation was done.
Even better, he might actually be the dear leaders son!!! Sweet dreams boys :-/
Hehe, yeah, like the "dear leader" who could hold his breath for ten minutes, hit 20 holes in one in a row and so on. I think you might actually be on to something!!
He also mentioned in earlier posts that his family have numerous properties,and he has some in his name?I think he is searching google images now of chinese palaces to post,to try and impress us,that will never happen.
He would make a good gravedigger though,saying that he would probably not get out of the hole,as he has been digging a hole for himself for ages now,that he cant get out of with his silly statements.
butch1:He also mentioned in earlier posts that his family have numerous properties,and he has some in his name?I think he is searching google images now of chinese palaces to post,to try and impress us,that will never happen.
LOL, I didn't know he had claimed that as well. He's the gift that keeps on giving! Oh, and I bet you're right about the pictures.
butch1:He would make a good gravedigger though,saying that he would probably not get out of the hole,as he has been digging a hole for himself for ages now,that he cant get out of with his silly statements.
I completely agree. He has shown what he's made of.
I think you have a point.
if you look at the beoplay crap it's plain to see that bno have lost the plot
i also think the way they treated David Lewis passing , not even a tribute on their site says it all really. I was very unimpressed with the way they handled that.
The thread's title was Devialet vs. Bang & Olufsen.
But for me it seems like changed to Deviatet from Bang & Olufsen.
SCNR
I just thought I'd resurrect this thread as Devialet have come on in leaps and bounds since then, certainly with regards to the Phantom and all the rave reviews it's getting.
Have our thoughts changed. Has anyone heard the Phantom? What did you think?
Lee
KMA
B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.
Sadly I've not had a chance to hear one, would like to though. They have an integrated amp that is quite stunning though, very thin and well finished, in a way reminds me of the old Lecson gear back in the day. They also have a large number of different makers speakers which they have characterized and offer adaptive software for, which takes into account things like driver excursion limits and such, which I gather offers similar benefits to the B&O ABL stuff, boosting bass to improve low end response while taking driver power rating and excursion limits into account. Going through the list of speakers, it's sad that almost all of them are rectangular boxes, although Kef offers some interesting shapes. They even have a wall mount option for the integrated amp that looks good.
I still think their speaker looks ugly as original sin though. But it is different!
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
For me, all the hype about the Phantom is about getting a very high sound level out of something very small. But to my Ears, b&o is far better, for instance a set of BL3 s far more accurate, has less distorsion, but of course can't make as much noise as a pair of phantom.
diisign.com
If you want to read a review from someone, who has done a bit more than just seen them or listened to them at a demo.....
....then you could read Mitchco's article on Computeraudiophile.
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/reviews/devialet-phantom-gold-loudspeaker-review-r654/
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: If you want to read a review from someone, who has done a bit more than just seen them or listened to them at a demo..... ....then you could read Mitchco's article on Computeraudiophile. https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/reviews/devialet-phantom-gold-loudspeaker-review-r654/ MM
A very interesting review! But would you buy a pair of these horrendous looking things or, for a similar price, the BL9/20? (Or any Beolab at a similar or lower price?)
Proof, in my mind at least, that good aesthetics have real value even if the technical performance in the lab is apparently inferior in some areas.
Graham
Millemissen:If you want to read a review from someone, who has done a bit more than just seen them or listened to them at a demo...
Millemissen:If you want to read a review from someone, who has done a bit more than just seen them or listened to them at a demo..... ....then you could read Mitchco's article on Computeraudiophile. https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/reviews/devialet-phantom-gold-loudspeaker-review-r654/ MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
I would have bought one if they had it in black and without the crazy 18W standby power consumption (I don't know if this has been fixed now)...
I ended up with a Beosound 2.