ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello everyone,
I am a new member, located in Finland. Not sure if this has been asked several times before, so please do not get upset with me.
What do you think about a streamer from another brand with Beolabs, especially Naim ND 555, PS Audio Direct Stream DAC, Hegel HD 30 and Primare Pre35 DAC? I do not want a Beovision in the room the Beolabs will be in.
Should be connected with a digital cable?
Thank you
Michael
Hi Michael, specifically which BeoLabs are you driving?
Currently: BeoLab 17, BeoLab 18, BeoSound Core, Beosound Level, Beosound A1 2nd Gen, BeoPlay S8 Connection Hub, Halo, Essence Remote
Previously: BeoSound 1 non-GVA
It will be either the 50s or 90s, the room is large enough for both models.
If you’re in the Apple ecosystem, your system would benefit from the Naim Uniti Atom. Worth taking a look at.
B&O in my life 😊:
Pioneer N-70AE
.
Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.
Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.
MichaelFrilund:Should be connected with a digital cable? Thank you Michael
Sounds like excellent advice!
To the OP. There are a lot of good YouTube reviews, I like the style of John Darko, there is another guy (Aussie living in Tokyo) who's channel is called Currawong. The Auralic and Naim both looks really nice.
My B&O Apartment:
(cabled but unseen ;-) WISA as indicated):
Lounge:
Bedroom:
Coming Soon:
MichaelFrilund:Hello everyone, I am a new member, located in Finland. Not sure if this has been asked several times before, so please do not get upset with me. What do you think about a streamer from another brand with Beolabs, especially Naim ND 555, PS Audio Direct Stream DAC, Hegel HD 30 and Primare Pre35 DAC? I do not want a Beovision in the room the Beolabs will be in. Should be connected with a digital cable? Thank you Michael
I have heard so much about how wonderful Naim's DAC is, so I am rather looking forward to trying one. And it can stream almost anything.
To be honest, I am probably not blessed with audiophile ears. Would I hear a difference? Probably not.
Also, I like the Marantz SA10, should I connect it as a streamer to any DAC if I get one?
Dac/streamer is the way to go although the sound differences between the various brands are really subtle and unlikely to be noticed unless in a concentrated AB comparison.
I will make the move when someone comes up with a UI that I can get on with although Roon is the closest at the moment but it still has a lack of features that forces me back to using a phone/iPad outside of their system.
There are many skilled people at B&O, someone should make a grand DAC with a streamer. Now their best solution is a black round thing with only optical and a few other things. I might be missing something.
Disclaimer! Sorry for being a ‘non-audiophile-gear-proponent‘ in this matter.
But why would you need a DAC, when you are planning ro use the 50’s/90’?
They already have a ‘DAC’ built-in.....means no matter how you feed it, the ‘sound’ will be processed there.
All you need is something that lets you transport the sound (= the digital stream) into the speakers.
Using the digital/optical output of a Chromecast Audio device could do that - it could even function as a Roon endpoint, if you are into the possibilities of Roon and its gui.
This Darko video gives a bit of background for Chromecast and Roon Ready:
https://youtu.be/qX2LbNfMAS4
If you want to take that a step further (which I would do), get a Beosound Core and use the digital/optical output there to connect to the 50’s/90’s.
The built-in Chromecast support can serve as an endpoint for Roon....in addition to the Airplay, Spotify Connect and TuneIn options there.
If you want a handy volume control, just use an Essence Remote or - even better - the new Halo remote.
No need to go grazy on ‘audiophile gear’, when B&O offers all you need.
You could even connect a turntable to the Core....if you are into that, too.
Darko was mentioned earlier. He recently made a video about the Naim’s Uniti Atom. You can read it here (do watch the video too).
https://darko.audio/2020/06/a-pragmatists-preference-roon-spotify-and-chromecast/
However you won’t need the DAC, the amplifier and the display built-in there and you don’t need to pay that much.
Why go over the water after water, when B&O already offers, what you’d need.
For desert......those of you, who have a Chromecast dongle connected to their BV or built-in AND are interested in Roon, please watch this video;
https://youtu.be/TONHIcO3D2E
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
MichaelFrilund: There are many skilled people at B&O, someone should make a grand DAC with a streamer. Now their best solution is a black round thing with only optical and a few other things. I might be missing something.
Yes you might!
Watch out for my take on this - my post (once again) went into moderation ;-(
I think I could spend hours at a dealer, but COVID-19 makes a trip a bit more serious as a ministry here is against travels unless it is work related. If I somehow can make it just that...
MichaelFrilund:There are many skilled people at B&O, someone should make a grand DAC with a streamer. Now their best solution is a black round thing with only optical and a few other things. I might be missing something.
If it were me (or should I say, when it comes my time to be in the same position you’re in), I would ask myself a few questions:
1. Do I care about particular formats? For example, MQA? If I care about full MQA decoding because I use TIDAL, then that limits your options, which honestly, makes this all easier.
2. I would probably want a streamer with no DAC so as to allow the BL50 or 90 to handle all the decoding and processing.
3. I would ensure whatever streamer I purchase has digital outputs that pass 24/192, so as to maximize the speakers’ potential. The Node 2i, for instance, can only output 24/192 on its RCA outputs, not Toslink, which may conflict with (2) above, then, if you care. I would only care to use the digital outputs on the streamer.4. If this is your only source to the BeoLabs, then consider if you find Bluetooth, Airplay or chromecast important features for occasional, casual use.
5. My own personal feeling is I wouldn’t buy a Naim Uniti Atom or anything else with an amplifier in it because it’s redundant with our active speakers. You’re probably paying for components you wouldn’t use that can at best, have a neutral effect on the signal and at worst, degrade it.
Unfortunately the Core only serves 24/96, so while integration is good but the software kind of stinks, it’s also limited on the resolution side for BL50 and 90.
My research points me, one day, towards an Auralic Aries and a Qobuz subscription. To each their own! Let us know what you choose!
Curly, thank you.
Oh, and by the way, I’d ensure my streamer output 24/192 over USB or SPDIF and forget about Toslink because BL50 and 90 can only accept up to 24/96 on Toslink. For the full digital beans, you need USB or SPDIF, according to the technical sound guide.
I have quite a list of expensive boxes on the end of my BL90s
Auralic G2 stack (Aries streamer, Vega DAC and the Leo clock)
Melco N1 music server
Melco D1 ripper
you can argue merits of each and why all you want. I was drawn both the Aries and the Melco can drive DLNA across the house, with existing NL products, I wanted something that could be moved away from B&O if required and was not going to be subject to Firmware changes that could invalidate one product with another.
Solid units and a fair amount of coin spent. I would have so much preferred B&O develop their own hi-fi/hi-res player comparable for the BL90 because the market is there (Naim, NAD, AURALiC, Aurender +++]. No doubt it would have saved me thousands if they could have been bothered
Sorry for the multiple posts. I can’t figure out how to edit previously submitted posts.
I just wanted to share this article, which I found helpful in my research. The chart at the bottom is particularly useful.
https://www.themasterswitch.com/best-music-streamers
It really helped me see just how unusual B&O is in the audio world. It feels like the vast majority of folks are using passive speakers and are therefore concerned with amps, DACs, power conditioners, cables. In some ways, our lives are so much simpler! But I feel it also makes going outside the B&O ecosystem for gear a bit challenging at times.
Because the 50s and 90s have all the amps and DACs built-in, if you want the least redundancy and least amount of “external influence” on the sound, you’d buy a component WITHOUT an amp and DAC and just leave it to the BeoLabs to process everything, as they were designed.
Now, others have suggested correctly that adding these components back in can flavor the sound (perhaps subtly) to taste and if that’s preferable to you, go for it! Ultimately, there are few rights and wrongs—what determines success is whether your system sounds good to you.
In any case, my philosophy is that I wouldn’t want to duplicate components and potentially change the flavor of the sound Geoff and team designed into our speakers. I also prefer the simplest solutions possible, generally. So to me, this leads me to ask WHO MAKES A GOOD STREAMER WITHOUT AN AMP AND WITHOUT A DAC?
You are free to ask yourself an entirely different question, of course! And that being said, many of us wouldn’t have the ability to hear great differences in various setups anyway! So, to me, it’s like insurance—am I doing what I can to ensure the truest expression of the highest quality sound? With the understanding that I may not even be able to tell the difference between 24/96 and 24/192. But if you buy such expensive speakers, you may want to ensure you’re maximizing their potential.
Let us know what you choose!
Very good point, and reflects my thinking.
While I have bought 50s, I can foresee a day when B&O speakers are all I own from them.
In that regard I've gone for a Linn streamer / DAC - this takes care of my music (streaming, NAS music) and radio, and gives me Roon as a UI option. And yes, in a similar to yourself, this reduces my reliance on B&O for everything.
And again to echo your point, my Linn streamer / DAC was not cheap, but it sounds excellent, and if B&O made an audio source that fully matched the 50s (90s) capability, that would probably be similarly expensive.
Anyway, if the OP is not overly fussed by the subtleties of different musical presentations, then I'm not sure it makes sense spending many thousands on streamer and DACs.
Mr 10Percent: I have quite a list of expensive boxes on the end of my BL90s Auralic G2 stack (Aries streamer, Vega DAC and the Leo clock) Melco N1 music server Melco D1 ripper you can argue merits of each and why all you want. I was drawn both the Aries and the Melco can drive DLNA across the house, with existing NL products, I wanted something that could be moved away from B&O if required and was not going to be subject to Firmware changes that could invalidate one product with another. Solid units and a fair amount of coin spent. I would have so much preferred B&O develop their own hi-fi/hi-res player comparable for the BL90 because the market is there (Naim, NAD, AURALiC, Aurender +++]. No doubt it would have saved me thousands if they could have been bothered
So who makes such a streamer? Someone mentioned Chord in the UK once.
I can find PS Audio, Naim, Classé, Chord, Cambridge, Marantz, Yamaha and a few others over here.
Presumably you also need to think about where you're music is coming from, and how you want to control it (i.e what UI)
Which streaming service do you use? And do you (also?) use locally stored music?
Again, if I was primarily a Deezer user and nothing else, I'd stick with a Core / BeoLab 50s / B&O app / Halo.
But in my case I am not, and want to use Roon to manage / play all my music, be that from Tidal / Qobuz / DLNA local music.........of course the Roon route and its requirement for something running the Roon server, means its not for everyone.
MichaelFrilund: I can find PS Audio, Naim, Classé, Chord, Cambridge, Marantz, Yamaha and a few others over here.
Streaming... Deezer probably. Also getting an SACD, probably a Marantz SA10 connected with a SPDIF to the streamer.
Almost forgot! Someone recommended to have the streamer on full volume, let the amp or loudspeakers to adjust the volume I hear. Something about the quality being better on full volume. No joke, came from a serious brand but can't remember which one.
Given that the Lab 90s/50s have their own inbuilt DAC, I would opt for a streaming transport rather than a streamer with a DAC. Different streaming transports certainly do not sound the same, just as with CD transports (even different B&O models produce slightly different results), so you should audition a few options at home. I'm currently using an Auralic Aries Femto and I recently auditioned an Aries G2.1 and a dCS Network Bridge. The G2.1 had a much more dynamic and exciting presentation of the music, whilst the Network Bridge – although, I suspect, perhaps more accurate to the source material – had a leaner and less upfront style. In the end, I decided to wait until Auralic launches the G3 and upgrade then.
I agree with tour post on many counts. The difference really is in the UX beyond a certain point. The Naum Uniti is a good product because I like the UX. However, the Core is pretty much all you need. I can’t hear the difference above a Core. Now my speakers are not the most revealing.
Lumin U1, what do you think? I could order a streamer from Sweden where there are more brands to choose from.
I doubt any / many here have tried a Lumin.
Decide whether you want a streamer (i.e transport) only, or a streamer / DAC.
Me, I go for the streamer / DAC.
But I'm pretty sure you'll be happy with a streamer alone, especially if, as you say, you're not overly fussy about musical presentation etc.
Many of the units that people have replied with (including the Linn I'm going to use) are pretty damn expensive. And yes, while the 50s (or 90s) are also a lot of money, that doesnt necessitate spending multiple thousands again.
If you're happy with Deezer, and using the B&O app / Halo, then given the above, a Core may be plenty good enough. After all, a fair few people on here have remarked that the Core is surprisingly capable, although the 50/90s may sound better with something "better".
Anyway, as I'm not prepared to use the B&O app, and wanted Roon - a 3rd party unit was always going to be better for me.
MichaelFrilund: Lumin U1, what do you think? I could order a streamer from Sweden where there are more brands to choose from.
PS Audio's Directstream DAC seems to be a good one, and not terribly expensive if compared to Naim for example. And it gets software updates so it would be like having a new one about twice a year.
I've tested a Core with 50s, and a Linn streamer with 50s.
Much preferred the Linn combo.
But thats just me.
seethroughyou:Why would you want a DAC? The Beolab 50/90s have one of the best/most transparent DACs in the world?
The Beolab 50/90s have one of the best/most transparent DACs in the world?
there are some good reasons why you would do that;-
1. Aries 1 had a compatibility issue early on with the BL90s rendering it unusable
2. I believe you can get better “sounds” via the DAC-ACD and in my opinion a more “analogue” sound
3. The Vega DAC I use can also act as a very good pre-amp for my record deck and the SPdif output of the Oppo
4. I never liked using the USB connects even though it should be the best. Clunky to control volume and the sound was not the best for me.
10
Maybe have a look outside the regular hifi box:A completely different approch for home use can be one of the professional DJ media players from Pioneer and Denon. The Denon players have two variants, the regular and the "m" variant which has a motorized turntable platter for some kind of vinyl feeling. You'll have great local control / search functions. No app required, bomb proof reliable machines (hard- and software), digital output, multiple source options. The Denon machines feature dual layer configuration, which means that you can feed your Beolab 50/90 with Digital output 1 and feed another B&O system with Digital or analog output 2 to allow multiroom usage. Of course both layers can play different tracks at the same time. And the Denon players can stream from Tidal, Beatport, Soundcloud and Beatsource.Denon SC6000https://www.denondj.com/sc6000-prime
Denon SC6000m (identical to the SC6000 but with motorized platter)https://www.denondj.com/sc6000m-prime
Denon SC5000:https://www.denondj.com/sc5000%20prime-sc5000primexusDenon SC5000m: (identical to the SC5000 but with motorized platter)https://www.denondj.com/sc5000m-prime-sc5000mprimexusPioneer CDJ3000:https://www.pioneerdj.com/en-gb/product/player/cdj-3000/black/overview/#infoAfter playing with some of these there are only very few hifi digital playback sources that comes close to such an easy and fast local operation: - Sony HAP-Z1es- Hermstedt Hifidelio (old and maybe very unknown)
Interesting idea, thank you! Would not have thought of this myself.
At first I said to myself it will not work, but I would not mind giving it a try.
Sorry I forgot:You can install a SSD into Denon SC6000 and SC6000m to have your music ready on the device. There's a cover underneath the unit. That way you would have something like a Beosound 5 in a space ship outfit.