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I'm deciding between two very different houses to purchase. One is a super-modern new build with big walls and I'm already visualising using one wall for a Shape.
The Shape isn't something discussed at length on this forum, so wanted a few opinions:
Sound. If I went for 8 dampers, how does it compare to other B&O speakers? Since it was launched I always had the impression it looked like it would sound quite mid-range?
Installation. I guess it has to be done professionally. Any suggestions? I'm thinking I'd get it installed before I move in, so I can channel the cables in to the wall.
How do you have your Shape setup? Any opinions on this. Any photos you'd care to share?
moxxey:The Shape isn't something discussed at length on this forum, so wanted a few opinions:
First my setup only had 4 tiles with speakers connected to one amp (and a lot of dampers). Now I upgraded to 8 tiles with two amps. I love the sound, I find it astonishing. Especially the sound modes option has made the sound experience of the Shape even better (mode settings: BandOnTheWall, Stereo, Following; to be set in the app).
Installation: did it my self. The hardest was to get the cables though the wall (Idea: install not only a LAN and main cable but also an AUX cable to connect a device to the Core. I'm planning to connect the BS5e that way to the Core)
EDIT: pre-install also a PL cable; for the possibillity to connect the Shape to a BV
Carolpa: Installation: did it my self. The hardest was to get the cables though the wall (Idea: install not only a LAN and main cable but also an AUX cable to connect a device to the Core. I'm planning to connect the BS5e that way to the Core)
Thanks for the feedback. Just been to see the builds and as they are 80% finished, it offers an opportunity to channel the cables in to the walls.
They do look great. I was thinking of starting with 8 panels. Part of me wants this as it looks amazing. If it only offers a background/ambient noise, that's not so bad, as it would be on the wall in the kitchen/diner and would play through the French doors to the outdoor area, too!
You've also gone for the colours I would choose!
moxxey:If it only offers a background/ambient noise, that's not so bad,
One of the best B&o purchase the last years.
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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
@moxxey
8 tiles ( = 4 speakers) is a good start.
But, beware - after the description of the room - you will very soon extend it to a 8 speaker version.
These Shape installations tend to be rather addictive ;-))
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
I'm glad that moxxey brought up this thread. I have so many Shape questions. One question I asked a dealer: when moving up from 4 speakers (the minimum) to 6 speakers or more, what do I get for my money? Speaker tiles cost more than damper tiles. In addition, moving past 4 speakers requires a second amp. What do extra speakers bring to the party?
I hoped the answer would be that the Shape algorithm would do something clever with the speakers, like extending the frequency response of the unit, maybe ganging together two speakers to act as a virtual subwoofer. Or do something with the imaging. Surely the answer can't be 'more dBs,'
The response from B&O corporate (the dealer had to ask) was: the additional speakers (plus amp) create a fuller atmosphere to the sound and allow for more body in the audio.
Does anyone have a better answer, or is that the best answer?
Regarding ambient 'band on the wall' versus stereo imaging, Henrik has two contrasting videos on this topic. Apparently, the Shape can handle either via configuration in the app,
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MXyo5wYLGw
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBn8J65RU-E
BeoFrederic: The response from B&O corporate (the dealer had to ask) was: the additional speakers (plus amp) create a fuller atmosphere to the sound and allow for more body in the audio. Does anyone have a better answer, or is that the best answer?
I read a Shape review before bed last night which seem to suggest small Shape can 'lose' you if you move around the room quite a bit and the sound is only most effective with at least 4 speakers (or 8 dampers in total). I think I'd start with 8 and potentially move up later.
The important part for me is channeling the initial cables in to the walls! I don't really want to see the power cable hanging off the core to the floor. Ideally, I'd like to avoid this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MXyo5wYLGw
Henrik is renting that apartment - he probably had no other option.
The good thing about starting with e.g. 8 tiles is, that once you have made the hidden cabling, you just can go on from there expending, if/when you need it.
How about using the B&O AR Experience app to show you how a Shape would look on your wall in different sizes/configurations.
https://apps.apple.com/dk/app/b-o-ar-experience/id1408625574?l=da
When the Shape (concept) was initially presented, Jakob (Dyreby), who was one of the main sound engineers of the Shape, was asked about the comparison to other Beolabs.
There was a chart somewhere, which I don’t find right now (maybe someone else?)
However, I do remember that it was metioned, that it takes 16 speakers to ‘match’ a set of the BL20’s.
But you should not forget, that the concept of the Shape - the socalled Band on the Wall effect - was made for music listening in a room, where you typically walk around or have diverse seating positions.
Therefore it is not just a matter of comparing this with speakers that typically are used for more critically listening....sound stage, imaging, sweet spot, money seat listening etc.
You also must know that it nowadays is possible to run the Shape in a pure stereo (2 channel) configuration, if you need or like that more that the Band on the Wall configuration.
(The Shape without the BS Core can also easily be used as speakers for another B&O music system or a BV. You could also run it both ways, when a Core is installed).
Maybe it is worth watching this initial presentation made in Struer back then.
https://youtu.be/DTGN129Mw_E
I attended a similar presentation and heard the Shape in a rather big (?) configuration around the same time....that was pretty impressing.
BeoFrederic:What do extra speakers bring to the party?
Millemissen:There was a chart somewhere, which I don’t find right now (maybe someone else?)
@CB
Yes, that‘s the one - thanks!
CB and MM: thanks for engaging and re-posting those images from the B&O rollout. I'd seen them before. Not shooting the messenger here - I find these graphics perfectly ambiguous. What, in this context, does B&O mean by the word 'performance' ?
Also, MM: have a listen to Henrik's recording of a Shape in stereo mode. What do you think of that mode? For me, under headphones, there's a robust stereo image. Carolpa also mentioned this in his/her post.
moxxie: here in the U.S. (not relevant to you) an average consumer can't just punch a hole in the wall and run the power/mains cable behind the drywall: it's against the electric code. You need an electrician, Romex, etc. I'm sure it's similar in the UK. So yeah, wire it up before the drywall is finished if you can.
FWIW, if I ever pull the trigger on a Shape myself, I'll consider a false wall/large piece of finished plywood to act as the substrate for the installation. It should make cabling easier and avoid holes in the room's wall.
Finally, Carolpa's suggestion of loading up the Shape's core with connections aforehand is an excellent thought; e.g not only could you use a PL connection to connect to BV, you could also use a PL connection to connect the Shape to a BL subwoofer.
Henrik has a video detailing this, though it's in Danish so I"m only guessing as to content.
CB:To give you an idea of sound equivalent speakers vs Shapes I thought these pictures would be useful.
I remember seeing this chart....and wondering if it's true? ie. how can speakers on a wall 'sound' like a ALT-based BeoLab 3 or how can the woofers have the depth of an A9?
Mind you, just compared the frequency range of the Shape versus an A9 and was astonished to see the Shape has a wider range!
BeoFrederic: moxxie: here in the U.S. (not relevant to you) an average consumer can't just punch a hole in the wall and run the power/mains cable behind the drywall: it's against the electric code. You need an electrician, Romex, etc. I'm sure it's similar in the UK. So yeah, wire it up before the drywall is finished if you can.
That's exactly the plan. As the new build is being completed, my thought was to try and get them to incorporate this before it's finished. I was going to email Tuesday with my plans and see if they can implement as part of the buying process!
There are several Shape related threads, so I did not know where to place this….but here goes:
https://youtu.be/aQFMHMZNUH4
BeoFrederic:Re-animating an old thread, because it seems the appropriate place to comment. After a couple of years of pestering Beoworld folks about the Shape, I dove in an purchased one. I just finished the installation last night, fired it up this morning for the time, and it’s *glorious.* I’ve joined the 21st century. This is my first (non-Beoplay) B&O purchase of the millennium.
I’ve joined the 21st century. This is my first (non-Beoplay) B&O purchase of the millennium.
That is nice to hear - have fun with the Shape.
I wish I had space for one.
BeoFrederic:I just finished the installation last night,...
BeoFrederic:I’ve joined the 21st century.
Of interest if you don't want to post pix, you talked of (1) building a false wall like Henrik, did you?; and (2) NEC code (USA) -- which might, or might not, allow a DIY with the Arlington Industries pre-wired "TV-Bridge" boxes -- did you go old-school with an electrician and Romex to wallboxes?
Millemissen:That is nice to hear - have fun with the Shape.
Mikipidia:Congrats, glad you’re liking it!
trackbeo: Pictures or it didn't happen. Oh, wait, wait,... your flip phone does have a camera, doesn't it?
Pictures or it didn't happen. Oh, wait, wait,... your flip phone does have a camera, doesn't it?
Hah! I’m hep and down with these smartphone gadgets. . Actually, I’m a veteran of Silicon Valley - if I don’t keep up with my tech, my friends will laugh at me.
Pics: the Shape is step one in a larger remodeling project for the library room. I’ll post something when complete. However: here’s proof-of-life:
It’s well that I did this mock-up; I realized that the natural wall placement for a Shape is too high for audio when seated in listening position. The final installation is about a foot lower.
trackbeo: Of interest if you don't want to post pix, you talked of (1) building a false wall like Henrik, did you?; and (2) NEC code (USA) -- which might, or might not, allow a DIY with the Arlington Industries pre-wired "TV-Bridge" boxes -- did you go old-school with an electrician and Romex to wallboxes?
1. False wall: didn’t do it, but I still think it may have been the best bet. See #2.
2. Haven’t tackled the electrical yet, so dangling cables. My DIY electrical skills rank below my meager carpentry skills. I am considering this product however, and very open to other suggestions.
I have never seen that product -- basically a "smurf tube" plus right-angle wall fittings! Cute idea. But the 3rd picture shows what I thought was a code no-no, running a figure-8 AC cable in the same raceway with low voltage. Also the seller dodged a question about approvals, saying only "engineered to meet NEC and UL standards", which of course means they *didn't* get a listing. I'm certain it would be fine, especially given the low wattage carried and the airspace around the standard AC cord. But would some supercilious insurance lawyer claim *it* was responsible for starting the fire? Of course...
Sorry, I should have posted a link to the Arlington product: http://www.aifittings.com/landing/tv-bridge-kits/ . It has an ETL listing but not UL -- even pre-built, I'm unsure if their flexible cord is allowed behind the wall per NEC either. The basic idea is that you cut in upper and lower boxes, and the lower box has a pre-molded permanently fixed AC cable that you plug into the wall outlet "over there", meaning you can put the upper box wherever you like and not worry about drilling horizontally through studs behind the drywall to route your AC wiring. That CableClear tube would use an extra-long cord to reach down and then across to the outlet, but then you don't need to put an AC receptacle into a full-size upper box.
That's great new BeoFrederic, likewise I have recently completed a Shape installation & very much enjoying it. Sound quality is superb. It's also my first experience of the Core, net linked to my BV11. All working very well, very easy to use & setup.
Kind regards,
Julian
Interesting. I'm thinking about adding one as rear surrounds. Not sure if I need two amps or if one is enough?
- Beovision Eclipse 55 Mk2 - Beolab 19 - Beosound Shape - Oppo UDP-203
swestland: Interesting. I'm thinking about adding one as rear surrounds. Not sure if I need two amps or if one is enough?
This video might help you:
https://youtu.be/7xV8RyZAzuM
swestland:Interesting. I'm thinking about adding one as rear surrounds. Not sure if I need two amps or if one is enough?
If the Shape will be used as a separate audio unit aside as surround speakers you will need a Core. If used solemnly as surround speakers the Core is only used in the first setup of the surround speaker (or for amp/speaker setup changes afterwards).
Ah great info, thanks. So it can be done with 1 amp. One amp can have 4 speakers attached. Not sure if you can use it then as 4 individual speakers in the surround set up of the BV. I don't think so, I think its 1 amp for 1 speaker (which can be a total of 4). But if you want a seperate left and right channel you would need 2 amps and use 2 powerlink cables to the BV.
swestland:Not sure if you can use it then as 4 individual speakers
swestland:I think its 1 amp for 1 speaker (which can be a total of 4)
swestland:But if you want a seperate left and right channel you would need 2 amps and use 2 powerlink cables to the BV.
But yes, you can chose 2 amps with both 2 speaker units and 2 PL cables (if the Shape is divided in separate left/right parts).
Carolpa: swestland:Not sure if you can use it then as 4 individual speakers No. In principle you will have 2 channels swestland:I think its 1 amp for 1 speaker (which can be a total of 4)No, one amp can handle 4 speaker unit, 2x2 channel swestland:But if you want a seperate left and right channel you would need 2 amps and use 2 powerlink cables to the BV. No, not necessary. One PL line will hold the right/left channel. But than with separate left/right you have to connect the Shape without amp to the one with an amp. But yes, you can chose 2 amps with both 2 speaker units and 2 PL cables (if the Shape is divided in separate left/right parts).
So maybe I'm overcomplicating right? Just have 1 core, 1 amp and 4 speaker tiles would give a Left and Right surround channel. Then connection by 1 powerlink to the BV.
swestland: Just have 1 core, 1 amp and 4 speaker tiles would give a Left and Right surround channel. Then connection by 1 powerlink to the BV.