ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
Maybe because the amplifiers used for the mids and highs for the Lab5s are not as good as the 9s. It is a fact that first generation Ice modules are notorious for their grating highs ( extreme high distortion in the mids and more so for the highs) . That is why linear power supplies are employed in the Lab5s in the first place and that the power amplifiers for the mids and highs of the Lab9s are class AB I think.
Don't rush into making a purchase decision I sense an overhaul coming soon ( RJ45 sockets are now the new standard now) . The third generation Ice amps are quite a leap from the first and I think they will soon make into the higher end models.
I know of many who are not impressed with the Lab5s. I nearly bought them too but.....
Are you getting them pre-owned though? Maybe it's a bargain then... Well it's all up to you.
wonderfulelectric:Maybe because the amplifiers used for the mids and highs for the Lab5s are not as good as the 9s. It is a fact that first generation Ice modules are notorious for their grating highs ( extreme high distortion in the mids and more so for the highs) . That is why linear power supplies are employed in the Lab5s in the first place I think.
What are your sources when you’re speaking from "a fact"?
Don't rush into making a purchase decision I sense an overhaul coming soon ( RJ45 sockets are now the new standard now) .
Standard for what? If you need Powerlink, then buy a RJ45 adaptor. Otherwise SP/DIF for audio is doing perfectly well.
The third generation Ice amps are quite a leap from the first and I think they will soon make into the higher end models.
Have you ever compared them side by side?
But you prefer to use RJ45, I know.
maclife: wonderfulelectric:Maybe because the amplifiers used for the mids and highs for the Lab5s are not as good as the 9s. It is a fact that first generation Ice modules are notorious for their grating highs ( extreme high distortion in the mids and more so for the highs) . That is why linear power supplies are employed in the Lab5s in the first place I think. What are your sources when you’re speaking from "a fact"?
Just go to the Icepower website and it is all self explanatory. I am sure you are smart enough to understand distortion graphs. And I have listened to those high end Icepower amps powered by linear power supplies with so called "extensive" modifications and they sounded dismal. No idea what was the hype about. LIke OMG the audiophile communities were so all over it back in 2005. And why do you think that is that the Lab9s have conventional class AB amps for their mids and highs instead? And why do focal and adam monitors stopped using Iceamps for those frequency regions too?
Razlaw:The 5s have been here a few days and again, I am not impressed. I do not notice that much difference between them and the 9s. There is a difference, and the bass is tighter, if that is the right word, but different does not equal better. Whether it is my room, my ears, or my taste, I don't know.
It is like it is, so do not worry. There’s absolutely no need to buy a speaker you do not feel useful for your needs. And a BeoLab 5 costs more than twice the price of a BeoLab 9, so it absolutely should be a well considered investment.
In my experience, a BeoLab 5 should have place and a non vibrating stable floor to unfold its sound. Because it is adapting the lower frequencies to the size of the room the BeoLab 5 works in every kind of environment but in the end it just might sound like a smaller and less expensive speaker. If you do not like this approach, then you can of course first adapt it to a larger room and move it afterwards to a smaller place, but that would be not the idea behind it and just destroys the concept of an undistorted sound experience.
wonderfulelectric:Just go to the Icepower website and it is all self explanatory. I am sure you are smart enough to understand distortion graphs. And I have listened to those high end Icepower amps powered by linear power supplies with so called "extensive" modifications and they sounded dismal. No idea what was the hype about. LIke OMG the audiophile communities were so all over it back in 2005.
You’re very fast impressed by any kind of marketing vocabulary. But it is as simple as that: As B&O are the company behind ICEpower they most certainly have the best position to evaluate the use of their proper equipment. And as long as your listening experience is no more than "I have listened to those high end Icepower amps powered by linear power supplies" without any more details then there is just no value behind your remarks.
And why do you think that is that the Lab9s have conventional class AB amps for their mids and highs instead?
Because they are cheaper.
And why do focal and adam monitors stopped using Iceamps for those frequency regions too?
Most probably for being not compared to the BeoLab 5.
maclife: In my experience, a BeoLab 5 should have place and a non vibrating stable floor to unfold its sound. Because it is adapting the lower frequencies to the size of the room the BeoLab 5 works in every kind of environment but in the end it just might sound like a smaller and less expensive speaker. If you do not like this approach, then you can of course first adapt it to a larger room and move it afterwards to a smaller place, but that would be not the idea behind it and just destroys the concept of an undistorted sound experience.
I think you are right. It is my room. Something about the size, shape, wood floor with carpet on it, and perhaps that the speakers are too close to the wall. I have read that they may do better away from a wall?
Razlaw: wood floor with carpet on it,
I remember this point in your previous demo. A suggestion ; get 2 concrete pavers (no idea what that translates to in American ) they are used for patios and streets and measure (in ye old imperial ) 24 inches x 24inches and 2 inches thick and try them under the speakers- nothing ventured....
maclife: wonderfulelectric:Just go to the Icepower website and it is all self explanatory. I am sure you are smart enough to understand distortion graphs. And I have listened to those high end Icepower amps powered by linear power supplies with so called "extensive" modifications and they sounded dismal. No idea what was the hype about. LIke OMG the audiophile communities were so all over it back in 2005. You’re very fast impressed by any kind of marketing vocabulary. But it is as simple as that: As B&O are the company behind ICEpower they most certainly have the best position to evaluate the use of their proper equipment. And as long as your listening experience is no more than "I have listened to those high end Icepower amps powered by linear power supplies" without any more details then there is just no value behind your remarks. And why do you think that is that the Lab9s have conventional class AB amps for their mids and highs instead? Because they are cheaper. And why do focal and adam monitors stopped using Iceamps for those frequency regions too? Most probably for being not compared to the BeoLab 5.
Conventional Class AB amps are cheaper? Are you high? You know how much is a 1000W icepower third generation monoblock selling aftermarket nowadays? Below or around a thousand! And how much does a class AB amp sell for that kind of power? At least 5 times that and and I mean the cheapest ones. Haven't you been following beophile or beoworld at all? Icepower is meant as a power and cost saving.
And 250W two channel third gen Ice amplifiers are selling for only $700. Hello...
Do you just dish out responses without research?
Razlaw:I think you are right. It is my room. Something about the size, shape, wood floor with carpet on it, and perhaps that the speakers are too close to the wall. I have read that they may do better away from a wall?
Mr Moulton might give you the best details there. But yes, it sounds reasonable that the BeoLab 5 should not be placed too close to any wall as the lower bass driver is directed to the floor. And of course the floor itself should vibrate as little as possible because otherwise it just would serve as a giant bass driver with horrible distortions. And there you already have the biggest problem. If you’re not placing the BeoLab 5 on a ground floor without any cave below or above a structural reinforcement then you automatically have a distortion problem leading to a reduced bass reproduction. Unfortunately, stable speaker places a meter away from walls in a relatively large room rarely exist in a real world environment, so many BeoLab 5 are not fully unfolding their capacities, very often leading to the misunderstanding that they do not sound like they should for such a high priced speaker. The BeoLab 5 are very often compared to speakers without any adaptation to the room they’re standing in and even more rarely to speakers from other brands as B&O dealers often sell nothing else. Half of the discussions at this place are based on this unfortunate situation. How many people not using a BeoLab 5 are actually adapting their speakers to their listening environment and can there ever be a non frustrating experience considering the traditional acoustically non adapted listening approach?
wonderfulelectric: maclife: And why do you think that is that the Lab9s have conventional class AB amps for their mids and highs instead? Because they are cheaper. And why do focal and adam monitors stopped using Iceamps for those frequency regions too? Most probably for being not compared to the BeoLab 5. Conventional Class AB amps are cheaper? Are you high? ...
maclife: And why do you think that is that the Lab9s have conventional class AB amps for their mids and highs instead? Because they are cheaper. And why do focal and adam monitors stopped using Iceamps for those frequency regions too? Most probably for being not compared to the BeoLab 5.
Conventional Class AB amps are cheaper? Are you high? ...
The bl9 reused the chassis from the bl1. Therefore, it was cheaper as the engineering was mostly done.
Stan
Well that makes some sense but Icepower modules are plugin ready modules so.... Erm...
Actually amplification modules for active loudspeakers are almost always in ready plug in forms. Go search around and you will know what I mean. But AB is really expensive. I tried looking at bryston's amp packs and they cost like $3000 at least. A little nuts I would say. Okay maybe Bryston represents the top echelon of amp packs With Icepower you save a lot on the heatsinking and power supplies. I don't mean cheap = bad but what I mean is that way back when the Lab5s were made Icepower technology has yet to fully mature.
wonderfulelectric:Conventional Class AB amps are cheaper?
Yes.
Are you high?
No.
You know how much is a 1000W icepower third generation monoblock selling aftermarket nowadays? Below or around a thousand! And how much does a class AB amp sell for that kind of power? At least 5 times that and and I mean the cheapest ones. Haven't you been following beophile or beoworld at all? Icepower is meant as a power and cost saving.
Have you written somewhere that the used amplifiers in your fictional comparable speakers should have exactly the same performance? No.
Have you given me any example of an active speaker using amplifiers with the same performance? No.
So? I am still waiting for any facts.
I am impressed by your reality distortion field.
Yes, yes. A 25 cm woofer in a Beolab1 . That is the firts time I heard of that!
maclife: wonderfulelectric:Conventional Class AB amps are cheaper? Yes. Are you high? No. You know how much is a 1000W icepower third generation monoblock selling aftermarket nowadays? Below or around a thousand! And how much does a class AB amp sell for that kind of power? At least 5 times that and and I mean the cheapest ones. Haven't you been following beophile or beoworld at all? Icepower is meant as a power and cost saving. Have you written somewhere that the used amplifiers in your fictional comparable speakers should have exactly the same performance? No. Have you given me any example of an active speaker using amplifiers with the same performance? No. And 250W two channel third gen Ice amplifiers are selling for only $700. Hello... So? I am still waiting for any facts. Do you just dish out responses without research? I am impressed by your reality distortion field.
There you go
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-b-o-icepower-125asx2-ghent-a200x-amp-classd-550w-x-2-ch-2013-01-07-amplifiers-shanghai
and
Icepower with linear supplies
http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/category/74030/117839/18046
beosound: Yes, yes. A 25 cm woofer in a Beolab1 . That is the firts time I heard of that!
Chassis = amplification, not drivers.
See here:
http://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/10943/81853.aspx#81853
valve1: Razlaw: wood floor with carpet on it, I remember this point in your previous demo. A suggestion ; get 2 concrete pavers (no idea what that translates to in American ) they are used for patios and streets and measure (in ye old imperial ) 24 inches x 24inches and 2 inches thick and try them under the speakers- nothing ventured....
I might try that. It might help. Thanks for the idea!
To be honest, I think that even if they sound good with the paves underneath, you should save your money for something else if the BL9s sound better in your particular place.
Oh, yeah, definately test them. I'm all for that. If for nothing else, it will put your mind at ease either way :-)
@WE
Razlaw, and others here, are trying to discuss why the BL5's (which despite your experiences have been widely acclaimed) do not seem to fulfil their potential in his living room. They are not considering sawing them in half to fit somebody else's monoblock amplifiers or power supplies nor, I suspect, are they interested in discussing it hypothetically. If you must insist on disrupting threads discussing B&O topics with silly notions of what you would do to re-engineer or re-design them can you at least please limit it to one particular thread only so that the rest of us can avoid it and you can post to your heart's content without fear of contradiction.
Or stick to the topic in hand!
Thankyou.
Ban boring signatures!
Razlaw:if they sounded amazing
Focus on that bit first but if they are not leaving your 9's for dead......
I agree. Once I have the 9s connected as rears, I will be able to switch the settings so that I can switch back and forth for two channel listening and do some side by side comparisons of music between the 9s and 5s. The 5s need to be much much better than the 9s for me to want to buy them.
If paving stones work but are unattractive, perhaps a visit to a shop that does granit and other stone countertops could find you a pair of heavy, polished slabs that are nicer looking. Since they are relatively small you might be able to get a decent price on left over odd sizes too small for a counter top.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Severian:If paving stones work but are unattractive, perhaps a visit to a shop that does granit and other stone countertops could find you a pair of heavy, polished slabs that are nicer looking. Since they are relatively small you might be able to get a decent price on left over odd sizes too small for a counter top. Jeff Beosound 9000, Beolab 8000s, Beogram 3000 w/MMC2, CX50s, P30s, Beovox 3000s, Beocord 3300, AV7000, Beolab 2000's, Beo5 and Beo4
StUrrock:The Lab 9s sound so good so good. But with the Lab 5s expect a few hairs on the back of your neck standing up moments! Given the right source/ music combo the Lab 5 s simply cannot be beaten. Do I sound jealous;)? Enjoy!
Razlaw:Mostly classical music and Quantum of Solace, the opening chase scene. I now have the 9s connected and Quantum sounds better. Question is whether that is do to the 5s and 9s or if 4 9s would do the same.
I now have the 9s connected and Quantum sounds better. Question is whether that is do to the 5s and 9s or if 4 9s would do the same.
At the risk of repeating myself from previous threads, I would audition 9's at the front and 3's at the rear............ it'll cost an awful lot more to maybe sound a little bit better. It would be interesting to find out if your separate 4 x BL9's is discernable from 9's and rear 3's ............... however it is difficult to test scientifically in a home enviroment with visual cues giving false feedback.
I have had both 3s and 4000s as rears. I prefer 4000 as rears, they have a fuller sound, more bass in the back. It would probably be a bit overkill to have 9s as rears for movies. However if you listen to 4 channel stereo then perhaps 4 9s is resonable. I have tried big speakers in small rooms, for me it has not worked out good, big speakers needs big rooms to sound "right" my humble experience.. It is a nice problem you have :D I wish I could have the same problems ;)
It would be interresting to listen to both 5 and 9 in a big room - what the difference would be.
I can imagine that the experience when looking at action moveis is far greater with 9s :)
If I had the cash and space I know I would have 4 9s
Razlaw: StUrrock: The Lab 9s sound so good so good. But with the Lab 5s expect a few hairs on the back of your neck standing up moments! Given the right source/ music combo the Lab 5 s simply cannot be beaten. Do I sound jealous;)? Enjoy! I want them to be that good, but so far they are not. :(
StUrrock: The Lab 9s sound so good so good. But with the Lab 5s expect a few hairs on the back of your neck standing up moments! Given the right source/ music combo the Lab 5 s simply cannot be beaten. Do I sound jealous;)? Enjoy!
The Lab 9s sound so good so good.
But with the Lab 5s expect a few hairs on the back of your neck standing up moments!
Given the right source/ music combo the Lab 5 s simply cannot be beaten.
Do I sound jealous;)?
Enjoy!
I want them to be that good, but so far they are not. :(
I have an idea that might help you pinpoint why your speakers don't sound like you hoped.
There was an article in Sound & Vision magazine that described how to test your speakers with a laptop, software, and microphone. It might be worthwhile to try this to see what is happening with your speakers in your room. Here's the link:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/how-diy-audio-measurement
Razlaw:The difference in sound replacing the 1s with 4000s was huge
Another idea which would save you a rewire; try your lab1's against the lab 5's(as rere's) and if they do tick all you boxes- get a pre loved pair in a more suitable colour.
rikarde:I can imagine that the experience when looking at action moveis is far greater with 9s :) If I had the cash and space I know I would have 4 9s
doonesbury:I have an idea that might help you pinpoint why your speakers don't sound like you hoped. There was an article in Sound & Vision magazine that described how to test your speakers with a laptop, software, and microphone. It might be worthwhile to try this to see what is happening with your speakers in your room. Here's the link: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/how-diy-audio-measurement
valve1:Another idea which would save you a rewire; try your lab1's against the lab 5's(as rere's) and if they do tick all you boxes- get a pre loved pair in a more suitable colour.