ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
BeoGreg:Thanks for the lil' review Razlaw. A shame beolab 5 don't do the job in your home. I personaly won't bother trying to improve anything if they don't sound good in the begining. Keep 9 and cash ! Since 1995 : too much to re-write on the new site. Various Beosounds, Beovisions, Beolabs, Beocords, Beocoms...
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
Assuming you actually think they're better than your 9s, I think that sounds like a fair deal. But it's only fair if you actually want them and think they sounds better. If not, it's still just a waste of money, imo.
Razlaw: rikarde: I can imagine that the experience when looking at action moveis is far greater with 9s :) If I had the cash and space I know I would have 4 9s Are you saying you would prefer 4 9sover 5s and 9s?
rikarde: I can imagine that the experience when looking at action moveis is far greater with 9s :) If I had the cash and space I know I would have 4 9s
I can imagine that the experience when looking at action moveis is far greater with 9s :)
If I had the cash and space I know I would have 4 9s
Are you saying you would prefer 4 9sover 5s and 9s?
A long time ago an audiophile told me that the best thing in stereo or 4 channel stereo o even surround is to use the same speaker type - they have the same "sound or tone". So I would probably use the same speakers as front and rears, especially if the room is not big enough for the 5s to begin with..
Some 10 years ago I had very good B&W speakers connected to a NAD amplifier, they sounded great, but when I moved to a smaller apartment the full and rich sound was not there. It was gone until I moved again, to a house with a bigger living room, then they sounded great again.
I have learnt that the bigger is not always better when it comes to speakers.. :)
I have a movie crazy friend who has that type of setup, he says it is great. It will probably give you an even greater movie experience. In my opinion it is abit overkill since the ears can locate sound easy from front and sides, not for the rear..But if you have cables try it as see the outcome - Im curious of your experience :)
Razlaw:The difference between them, in my room, and to my ears, just is not that much.
Well you tried and if your ears are not convincing your wallet its time to walk !
How about bl12's ?
Razlaw:I have connected one 4000 and set it as center rear. I have only had time to listen to one scene in a movie for a few minutes. My initial impression, and may be my imagination, is that the sound is a bit smoother, more evened out, if that makes sense.
Theoreticaly it should smooth out the sound, I was actually not aware that it was noticeable :)
valve1: Razlaw:The difference between them, in my room, and to my ears, just is not that much. Well you tried and if your ears are not convincing your wallet its time to walk ! How about bl12's ?
I think you are right, that is what I should do. Keep my 9s in front and replace the rear 4000s with 12s. I have been thinking of the 12-3. I want the speakers to match, both sonically and visually. I will be changing the 9s to white so now I am wondering what the white on the 12=3s looks like. Trying to decide which color of the 12-3s would be best with the white 9s.
Razlaw: I think you are right, that is what I should do. Keep my 9s in front and replace the rear 4000s with 12s. I have been thinking of the 12-3. I want the speakers to match, both sonically and visually. I will be changing the 9s to white so now I am wondering what the white on the 12=3s looks like. Trying to decide which color of the 12-3s would be best with the white 9s.
Hi
I do also have the 9 as front and 4000 as rear, and I have thought how the 12-3 would sound compared to to the 4000. I think my 4000 sound better for movies than the BL3 as rear though.
I hope you will be able to test a setup with BL9 and BL12.
Razlaw:I have pretty much decided to pass on the 5s. The difference between them, in my room, and to my ears, just is not that much.
Speaking of room, could you describe your room such as dimensions, wall, floor, and ceiling construction, etc.? I've seen other comments from listeners suggesting that their rooms were "wrong" for these speakers. As I hope to get a pair this year, I'm curious to read how these "bad" rooms compare with mine.
David
PS. Did you try measuring room response as noted in the Sound and Vision magazine I noted? If so, what did you find?
doonesbury:Speaking of room, could you describe your room such as dimensions, wall, floor, and ceiling construction, etc.? I've seen other comments from listeners suggesting that their rooms were "wrong" for these speakers. As I hope to get a pair this year, I'm curious to read how these "bad" rooms compare with mine. David PS. Did you try measuring room response as noted in the Sound and Vision magazine I noted? If so, what did you find?
There is an expensive silver set going in Arizona on ebay now.
Any further developments on your rear speakers ?
Razlaw:I still do not notice much difference. In fact there are times I am listening and hear sounds that make me think wow! the 5s sound amazing....but when I look at the green power lights I realize I am listening to the 9s.
The positive in all this is that you now know just how good the 9s are!
Electrified:The positive in all this is that you now know just how good the 9s are!
I want Lab 9s.
Probably a combination of your room and what you're used to. I think the room is the worst "offender", so to speak.
Razlaw:I told dealer I do not want the 5s. But, they are not coming to pick them up until the 25th so I guess I will just have to listen to them some more. :)
BeoNut since '75
Thanks a lot for the review, I have looked at the BL5's, but my wife does really not like them (design) compared to the 9's.
I love the sound of the 9's, and with your review, I do not even want to consider the 5's (I am also having my wife's opinion in mind)
My room is a little like your room, and I think the room has so much to say.
".....and I think the room has so much to say."
When will people ever stop to tell others what is the best speaker for them?
The only way to find out what is the best loudspeaker, is to try them/to listen to them at home!!!
Grrr! Millemissen
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen:"..... and I think the room has so much to say." When will people ever stop to tell others what is the best speaker for them? The only way to find out what is the best loudspeaker, is to try them/to listen to them at home!!! Grrr! Millemissen
Millemissen: ".....and I think the room has so much to say." When will people ever stop to tell others what is the best speaker for them? The only way to find out what is the best loudspeaker, is to try them/to listen to them at home!!!
Well, one can make an educated guess, so one doesn't have to trial every speaker in the world. A big room? You probably can't do with the BL3s or other small speakers. Void under floorboards? Probably wont be successful if the speakers has huge and powerful downward facing bass drivers. But your'e right in that the final decision has to be based on having them in your room. But one can make a fairly short shortlist before listening to a single model.
Electrified:Well, one can make an educated guess, so one doesn't have to trial every speaker in the world. A big room? You probably can't do with the BL3s or other small speakers. Void under floorboards? Probably wont be successful if the speakers has huge and powerful downward facing bass drivers. But your'e right in that the final decision has to be based on having them in your room. But one can make a fairly short shortlist before listening to a single model.
bsantini:But what if you subsequently change rooms?
I tend to feel that's an especially valid point for Razlaw to consider re his evalution of the 9's v's the 5's.
I have a pair of lab 9's and regard them as the not only the Best loudspeakers I've ever owned, but amongst the finest that I've ever heard - as they're new both literally, and to me, I'm still getting used to them - and have been finding that the performance is often off the scale re their diminutive size and looks, and easily exceeds my expectations of them from the showroom demos, now that I have them in my own home.
However, the fact remains that the Lab 5 is technically the better speaker, and even in my space of 5 x 4 metres, I'd have a pair and put the 9's to the rears as surrounds had I the funds to do so.
I've found the LFE abilities of the Lab 9's so prodigious, that given my past experience in HiFi, I've had recovering audiophile anxieties about the ability of the 9's as a mere 'HiFi' speaker and not high end subwoofer, to be able to deliver the sort of LFE performance that they do, and survive both mechanically and thermally.
I started a thread about how ABL works and protects the speakers, and also a couple of queries about the use of loudness compensation, and whether my setup of V1-40 + pair of Lab 9's would benefit from the addition of a dedicated Beolab 2 subwoofer, and am greatly indebted to the exceedingly helpful replies of members, and especially to Geoff Martin from B&O.
In other threads I've read of how the bass capabilities of the Lab 5's exceed the Beolab 2, but thought that the addition of a Beolab 2 would ultimately lift my setup with Lab 9's to another level - but no, it appears that even the Lab 9, is broadly as capable as a Beolab 2 in the bass, and in a stereo pair, even slightly more capable.
I would note that in an AV setup, movie LFE can go to extremely loud and at very low true infrasonic frequencies; the Dinosaur foot-stomps in Jurassic Park for instance are around 5hz, and atypically re Dolby specs, a LFE channel is expected to be able to reproduce 115db peaks - the extra 10db needed as it is mono, and to balance out the SPL levels with the main channels which are required to produce 105Db peaks as per Dolby specs.
In so called high end separates, home theatre setups, the top performance subs could be rightly be assigned to the likes of the digital drive, motional feedback Velodynes; the JL Audio Fathoms etc; - all state of the art re bass/LFE performance - yet, the Beolab 5 is able to match them in the bass re both frequency extension and output level - an absolutely stunning achievement for a so called HiFi speaker, - let alone a dedicated high end specialised sub woofer, and an achievement it's well worth mentioning, that no high end passive speaker that I'm aware of can match.
Personally, unless I was absolutely sure I would never move house; that I was going to stay in a particular dwelling until my time in this mortal world was up, and I had the necessary funds, I'd have a pair of Lab 5's over a pair of Lab 9's in a heartbeat.
Hope this helps - I'm delighted with my 9's, but the 5's are still the technically better speaker overall, and whilst they might not benefit from your present space, I would think they would still outperform the Lab 9's on movie LFE, or if you listen say to a lot of classical pipe organ, even in a smallish space - perhaps something to try out?
Kind regards
John...
elephant:Maybe it is just part of the curse of living in Australia . .. ... .... .....
Swings and roundabouts !
Guess who has all the sunshine...... :-)
valve1:Swings and roundabouts ! Guess who has all the sunshine...... :-)
Beoboiinoz:I tend to feel that's an especially valid point for Razlaw to consider re his evalution of the 9's v's the 5's. I have a pair of lab 9's and regard them as the not only the Best loudspeakers I've ever owned, but amongst the finest that I've ever heard - as they're new both literally, and to me, I'm still getting used to them - and have been finding that the performance is often off the scale re their diminutive size and looks, and easily exceeds my expectations of them from the showroom demos, now that I have them in my own home. However, the fact remains that the Lab 5 is technically the better speaker, and even in my space of 5 x 4 metres, I'd have a pair and put the 9's to the rears as surrounds had I the funds to do so. I've found the LFE abilities of the Lab 9's so prodigious, that given my past experience in HiFi, I've had recovering audiophile anxieties about the ability of the 9's as a mere 'HiFi' speaker and not high end subwoofer, to be able to deliver the sort of LFE performance that they do, and survive both mechanically and thermally. I started a thread about how ABL works and protects the speakers, and also a couple of queries about the use of loudness compensation, and whether my setup of V1-40 + pair of Lab 9's would benefit from the addition of a dedicated Beolab 2 subwoofer, and am greatly indebted to the exceedingly helpful replies of members, and especially to Geoff Martin from B&O. In other threads I've read of how the bass capabilities of the Lab 5's exceed the Beolab 2, but thought that the addition of a Beolab 2 would ultimately lift my setup with Lab 9's to another level - but no, it appears that even the Lab 9, is broadly as capable as a Beolab 2 in the bass, and in a stereo pair, even slightly more capable. I would note that in an AV setup, movie LFE can go to extremely loud and at very low true infrasonic frequencies; the Dinosaur foot-stomps in Jurassic Park for instance are around 5hz, and atypically re Dolby specs, a LFE channel is expected to be able to reproduce 115db peaks - the extra 10db needed as it is mono, and to balance out the SPL levels with the main channels which are required to produce 105Db peaks as per Dolby specs. In so called high end separates, home theatre setups, the top performance subs could be rightly be assigned to the likes of the digital drive, motional feedback Velodynes; the JL Audio Fathoms etc; - all state of the art re bass/LFE performance - yet, the Beolab 5 is able to match them in the bass re both frequency extension and output level - an absolutely stunning achievement for a so called HiFi speaker, - let alone a dedicated high end specialised sub woofer, and an achievement it's well worth mentioning, that no high end passive speaker that I'm aware of can match. Personally, unless I was absolutely sure I would never move house; that I was going to stay in a particular dwelling until my time in this mortal world was up, and I had the necessary funds, I'd have a pair of Lab 5's over a pair of Lab 9's in a heartbeat. Hope this helps - I'm delighted with my 9's, but the 5's are still the technically better speaker overall, and whilst they might not benefit from your present space, I would think they would still outperform the Lab 9's on movie LFE, or if you listen say to a lot of classical pipe organ, even in a smallish space - perhaps something to try out? Kind regards John...
Hi Razlaw
Can you notice any difference in bass level when watching movies? The BL5 goes "deeper" and has a much more powerful bass than the 9's. I.e., I still like to have the BL2 connected to my TV together with my 9's, as I like the "rumble" of the BL2 in movies.
By the way, didn't you also have the BL2 once?
beolion: Hi Razlaw Can you notice any difference in bass level when watching movies? The BL5 goes "deeper" and has a much more powerful bass than the 9's. I.e., I still like to have the BL2 connected to my TV together with my 9's, as I like the "rumble" of the BL2 in movies. By the way, didn't you also have the BL2 once?
The biggest difference I hear in the bass is that the 5s are much tighter, the bass starts and stops instantly. As for going lower, I know they do but the difference I hear is not that great. I have a Velodyne 12 inch sub in the room with the 9s although I have it disconnected. I find I like the bass from the pair of 9s better than what I get from one sub. I did try out a Beolab 2 in my other room with my Beolab 1s and did like it but did not buy it.
I have now turned the loudness setting to ON and am liking the 5s more. Dealer is coming to get them on the 25th so I have more time to listen to them.
I have enjoyed following your experience with the 5s.
I have a pair with 3s in the rear and LOVE them.
I use them as Speaker 2 when listening to music and they quite simply blow me away.
I have a close friend with 9s and 3s and can tell you that there is a noticeable difference that only time can reveal.
The LFE (in movies/explosions/etc) is stunning with the 5s. I have paired the 9s with them in the rears as a demo -- - WOW
unfortunately, couldn't pull the trigger on the 9s i ended up buying a bv10 for a guest room instead..
I have a 2006 or 2007 pair and would not trade them for anything in the current lineup. I have a beolab 2 with 8ks in another room
and enjoy it but i think the bass on it is "sloppy" when compared to the 5s.
What has been your experience with the 5 bass versus the 9 bass?? I read you thought it was tighter . .. interesting to me. .
I have found the 5s to be much tighter in the midrage with the dedicated midrange speaker. .the bass i have always thought
was looser in the 5s and much more of a 'punch' with the 9s?
one other thing. . .i think the 5s 'feel' louder than the 9s. . i don't know what your volume level is but when the 5s get up to about 78-82 in volume
i really 'experience' the music. . that is feel every snare in my chest. . .which i personally thoroughly enjoy. .. i'm a loud listener. .
just my thoughts. . .thanks for sharing your experience!
Jered
I've had BL9's but i changed them(only because of looks, not quite my taste) to a pair of BL12..The sound is very much alike, but on my BV11 i like the BL12-3 better.. I had and buzzing sound coming from the tweeter on my BL9s, that is gone on the BL12-3, also they sound a bit more detailed.. However, i tried the BL12-3 as back and BL9 as front and it worked perfectly for me :)! Though i only did it because my dealer hadn't picked up my BL9.. I would personally prefer BL12-2 as back because the BL12-3 is a tall speaker, and you don't need the bass response on back speakers so 1 bass driver should be enough
AS: I've had BL9's but i changed them(only because of looks, not quite my taste) to a pair of BL12..The sound is very much alike, but on my BV11 i like the BL12-3 better.. I had and buzzing sound coming from the tweeter on my BL9s, that is gone on the BL12-3, also they sound a bit more detailed.. However, i tried the BL12-3 as back and BL9 as front and it worked perfectly for me :)! Though i only did it because my dealer hadn't picked up my BL9.. I would personally prefer BL12-2 as back because the BL12-3 is a tall speaker, and you don't need the bass response on back speakers so 1 bass driver should be enough
Thanks! I have been thinking that if I do decide against the 5s, as I currently think I will, I will want to replace my rear 4000s with either another pair of 9s or 12s. I was thinking the 12s are the way to go, less cost than 9s and can wall mount above the furniture. Very glad to know they work well with the 9s.
I have been demoing the 5s in my house now for 3 1/2 weeks. I have them for another week and a half. I am starting to rethink my opinion and may want a pair. Since turning "LOUDNESS" to "ON" I find I am liking the much better than before. The question is whether I like them enough better than my 9s to justify the cost.
Question: Speakers I am demoing are a 2007 pair that have been in the store since 2007. They have been moved around for in home demos etc.
Any thoughts on buying the demos? Anything to look out for? Any changes been made since 2007 such that new ones would be different?
Thanks!