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Sorry for the long post, but I’d love some advice from Beolab 50 owners. In my living room, I have a Harmony 77 with 2 pairs of 18s and a 19 for surround sound and music. I love the setup and have no complaints, but after recently auditioning the Beolab 90s and 50s, I can’t get them out of my mind. I don’t have the room (or the budget) for the 90s, but I could potentially make the 50s work as the front left and right, and move that pair of 18s (and the 19) elsewhere in our home.
I’d be sold already if it wasn’t for the layout of our living room. It isn’t typical, in that the sofas are parallel to each other—and perpendicular to the Harmony on one wall and the fireplace on the opposite wall—so there is no real sweet spot. For my music setting, I have the surrounds set to left and right, inverted from the left and right fronts, so no matter which sofa you’re on you have nice stereo imaging.
My dilemma has been that in my limited experience with them, and in everything I’ve read here, the 50s really shine in narrow mode—which doesn’t seem all that useful to me without a sweet spot. Therefore, I think I’d really only have the 50s in wide mode. My dealer says the room calibration alone is worth the upgrade, but given the investment it seems like a lot of money for a pair of speakers that I can’t take full advantage of. It’s like buying a sports car, but only driving under the speed limit. (And I like to drive fast.)
So my questions to owners of the 50s are a) Do you think the 50s in this scenario used exclusively in wide mode is enough of an improvement over my current setup to justify the money—and if so, why? And b) If yes, would you use the 50s on their own for music, or keep them in the same setup with the surround 18s where I have them as inverted L/R.
Thanks for reading—and the advice!
--Beovision Harmony 77, Beovision Harmony 65 x2, Beovision Contour 48, LG GX 65/Beosound Stage/STB StandBeolab 50s, Beolab 28s, Beolab 18s x3, Beolab 19, Beoplay A9, Beosound Edge, Beosound 2 x2, Beosound 1 x2, Beosound Level x2, Beosound Core x2, Beoplay M3, Beosound 9000, Beogram TX2, Beogram 6500 White Edition, 4000c (on order), Beoremote One x8, Beoremote Halo x3, BLC NL/MLBeoplay H95 x3, Beoplay EQ x2, Beoplay E8, Beoplay E8 Sport, Beosound A1 x2
I just had my 50s installed last week, and calibrated this week.
I came from a setup with 18s as fronts, and a 19 and pair of 3s for other duties.
I'll let other more seasoned 50s owners chime in on the relative merits of wide mode - my room is not that large so thus far narrow mode pointed / calibrated for various positions works well for me. I may use wide (calibrated for the mid point of the room) for listening when I'm just wandering around, maybe.
In your current setup I'm guessing your 18s are therefore on the short walls, and perpendicular to the sofas facing each other? If so, how far apart are the 18s (left from right)?
In moving from my old 18s front to 50s front setup, I've spread my 50s to 5m apart from each other, and therefore wider than the 18s were. In the week or so I've had them, I've been mighty impressed - and this is in narrow mode.
In your scenario, you may not need to use them in wide mode exclusively. You can tune a narrow mode calibration for one sofa, repeat for the opposite sofa, and create a listening preset that combines both. The app gives you the option to do that.
I haven't combined room compensation positions in this way myself as yet - maybe some of the more seasoned 50s owners who have can comment.
Remember these speakers are pretty flexible - you can listen in narrow calibrated for one sofa, and then if others install themselves on the opposite sofa, you can switch quickly to the combined preset (both sofas) as described above.
If your lounge room is not that big, like mine, narrow mode is more likely to work across your various listening spots anyway.
Using 90s at the front, a couple of months ago I switched my 50s towards the middle of my room using them as surrounds with 18s at the rear.
Like you I have a couch that runs parallel to my normal listening position and a short while ago I decided to experiment with the 50s for listening to music. Despite one speaker being a little over 3 metres away and the other being nearly 5 metres away I was astounded to discover that I could produce a perfect phantom stereo image from the couch seating position. This was achieved merely by using the speaker settings on the Harmony and without any room calibration whatsoever, and they sounded great!
It is a mistake to think you cannot have a sweet spot (or sweet spots) in the position you describe.
My advice would be to purchase a microphone and stand (or negotiate with the dealer :-) ) and learn how to calibrate because you can set up as many positions in narrow or wide as you like and combine them to your heart's content. There is an excellent video by Geoff Martin showing the process.
For my use I only ever use two speakers for music and sometimes use wide mode for listening to certain performances (orchestral for example) and others I know use wide mode most of the time.
Only you can decide about value for money, but I also exchanged a pair of 18s for the 50s and the results exceeded my most optimistic expectations by a long way. They bought me back to real music listening that I thought had been long-lost.
Fabulous speakers :-)
This seems like a classic case of the tail wagging the dog. Instead of allowing your room layout to dictate how you listen to your speakers, why don't you change your room layout to create a proper sweet spot? I have Lab 90s as fronts as rears, and my room is set up around my TV and speakers, not the other way round, with the positioning of the sweet spot measured down to the last centimetre to create a "golden triangle".
Thanks. This is most helpful. I'm glad you've been impressed, and that narrow mode is working well for you in your setup. It sounds like it might work well in mine, too, which would alleviate my concerns.
How big is your room roughly.Mine (reference my response this morning) is 6m by 4.5m.
So in that size of room, I have narrow mode "pointed / calibrated" for 4 positions (sitting on floor, on sofa, in armchair, at the table), and one wide calibrated for mid point of room, for me wandering around.
My experience, in the above situation, is that the narrow modes are more than sufficient.
There is in fact not that much difference between the various narrow mode calibrations
So I think narrow modes will be more than sufficient even in a room a bit bigger than mine.
Once you get to a much large space, then a broader range of setup options (both narrow and / or wide) will likely need to come into play. But if your room is in the vicinity of mine, or say up to 8m by 6m, I suspect narrow modes will be fine for you, even with your slightly sideways positioning.
Thanks. The room is roughly the same size as yours, about 6m x 5m. I'm glad to know the narrow calibrations are working well there. Your observations are very helpful and appreciated. You and the other posters have alleviated my concerns, so hopefully I'll soon join the Lab 50s owners club!
Here are some profound suggestions from someone, who - although not a BL50 owner himself - certainly knows how these work and how to get the most out of them.
Read here:
https://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2017/08/09/bo-tech-beolab-50s-beam-width-control/
And watch the video here:
https://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2017/08/10/bo-tech-introduction-to-features/
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to answer my questions--and for your insights. I've just today ordered a pair of 50s for delivery/installation in April--and am very excited for them!
BeoJosh:Just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to answer my questions--and for your insights. I've just today ordered a pair of 50s for delivery/installation in April--and am very excited for them!
Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)
Congrats - you'll really really like them, I'm sure.
my 50s arrived only a month ago, and they're fabulous.
I used 18s front with a 19 for both music / movies previously.
They filled the room fine for movies, but were less than I wanted for music.
But with the 50s now, music is just much much more fulfilling.
What trim did you go for?
BeoJosh: Just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to answer my questions--and for your insights. I've just today ordered a pair of 50s for delivery/installation in April--and am very excited for them!
Congrats, Josh.
I'm also curious... did you choose the April date or is that the earliest your dealer could procure the speakers?
There has been some talk of product backlogs on the forum; I wonder if your situation is an example. Again, congratulations. I'm very jealous! :)
Currently: BeoLab 17, BeoLab 18, BeoSound Core, Beosound Level, Beosound A1 2nd Gen, BeoPlay S8 Connection Hub, Halo, Essence Remote
Previously: BeoSound 1 non-GVA
Thanks! I was very tempted by the Golden edition, which I could've had sooner, but ultimately went with the brass/smoked oak that matches the other B&O products throughout our home. I wish I could have them sooner, but I'm told early April delivery was the first available unsold 50 for this particular finish.
Happy new speakers Josh, you'll love them.
Just to chip in the wide / narrow beam width thing. From various training bits and bobs and from demonstrating and listening for pleasure in my store I can tell you how I use it. This applies to BeoLab 50 and 90.
I tend to use narrow for one sweet spot on my own for music (always 2 channel with surrounds and TV speakers off), it's just the best! Mic calibration done at one chair in the center of the speakers where I sit to listen. Mic position for the calibration is round your head where you sit. Imagine a box on your head, measurement 1 in the middle of the box, between your ears. Measurement 2 move the mic to the bottom front corner of the box and measurement 3 opposite top rear corner of the box. This gives very accurate image for just one person.
I use wide for music when more than one person listening where nobody is quite center and for movies regardless of solo or group listening.
I take the mic measurements 1 - from the center of the couch, 2&3 from the other seats at ear level. You could also take measurements from more seats and select all of the filters to create an average although personally I wouldn't use more than 2 or 3 filters at the same time together.
So narrow, super selfish on your own with a whiskey and Dark Side of the moon.
Wide listening with someone else or watching movies. Wide gives less bias to the left right channels of you are sitting off axis and spreads the experience over a wider area for more people at the slight cost of some imaging. It works well for movies to give a larger spread of effects across the front channels and better replicates a cinema sound system, especially when used with the TV as a center speaker and surround speakers.
Either way play about and whatever sounds best to you is the right one. Hours of fun ahead, I'm a bit jealous! :-)
Hope this helps,
John - Bang & Olufsen Manchester.
Thanks, John--this is very helpful. I can't wait for the speakers to arrive and to experiment with all the modes--most of all "super-selfish" mode!
And thanks for your videos--they're always fun to watch, and have been really helpful to me, especially as we were building and outfitting our new home during the pandemic and couldn't audition all the B&O equipment in person.
Many congratulations on the 50s - you will love them :-)
BeoJosh:Thanks! I was very tempted by the Golden edition, which I could've had sooner, but ultimately went with the brass/smoked oak that matches the other B&O products throughout our home. I wish I could have them sooner, but I'm told early April delivery was the first available unsold 50 for this particular finish.
BV Harmony 65 / Eclipse 55 / BL 50 / 19 / 18 / BS 2 all brass
BV Horizon 48 / V1 40 / BL 17 / Beoplay S3 all black
V1 / BL 3 / BS Essence MKII / Beoplay A3 all white
BS Moment / BS 3000 / BS 3200 / BL 400 all silver
Headphones / bluetooth speakers / BLC NL-ML / BLGateway
I know…B&O virus has grown on me !
Geoff Martin:I’d say that you should try installing them facing forward (don’t toe-in), calibrate the distances, levels, and ARC correctly to wherever you want to sit, and then make two presets - one narrow and the other wide - abc use whichever you prefer. It’s not perfect, but it’s not bad... another option is to make a preset for a listening position that only exists when you temporarily put a chair there. You won’t be the only person who does this. Remember that the narrow mode isn’t a laser - it’s very forgiving... and there are added benefits like the bass time response that cons along for the ride... cheers - geoff
Michael: Shouldn’t they be toed in?
Shouldn’t they be toed in?
If there's a listening position between the two speakers, then I would toe them in.
If there's not - then one has to compromise...
Cheers-geoff
Thanks, Geoff! I am working to find a wife-approved solution for a permanent listening chair in exactly the perfect spot. Either way, I appreciate and will definitely take your advice.
Geoff Martin:If there's a listening position between the two speakers, then I would toe them in. If there's not - then one has to compromise... Cheers -geoff
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
Hi Michael,
Are you saying that with the current sw 3.0.0.0616 there is an issue with the bass-response in the 50:s?
I have not experienced any problems with this software. There was a lot of problems with this issue with earlier software 3.0.0.0527 and some other 3.0.0.xxx - software versions.
But current software 3.0.0.0616 is very solid regarding both stability in the speaker and sound quality both in narrow beam and wide beam.
/Martin
NEW! Beovision Eclipse 65 2nd generation (G1) with floorstand (from STB Brackets), Beolab 50 front, Beolab 3 rear, 2 x Beoplay A6 linkrooms, 2xBeoremote one BT, Beosound 9000 Mark III (sw 3.4), Beosound 5 (for DLNA only), Philips Hue (all lights in the home), Oppo UDP-203, Apple TV 4K (2021 model). Beoremote HALO, 3xBeoplay Charging pad, Beoplay M5
Martin:Hi Michael, Are you saying that with the current sw 3.0.0.0616 there is an issue with the bass-response in the 50:s? I have not experienced any problems with this software. There was a lot of problems with this issue with earlier software 3.0.0.0527 and some other 3.0.0.xxx - software versions. But current software 3.0.0.0616 is very solid regarding both stability in the speaker and sound quality both in narrow beam and wide beam. /Martin Beovision Eclipse 65 with floorstand (from STB Brackets), Beolab 50 front, Beolab 3 rear, 2 x Beoplay A6 linkrooms, 2xBeoremote one BT, Beosound 9000 Mark III (sw 3.4), Beosound 5, Philips Hue (all lights in the home), Oppo UDP-203, Apple TV 4K. Beoremote HALO (new), 3xBeoplay Charging pad, Beoplay M5 (new)
Beovision 7-55 MK1 red, Beolab 10 red. Beolab 50, all black. Beolab 17 broken ice. Beolab transmitter. Apple tv4 and apple express 2.
Hi all,
is it possible, when you have your Beolab 50s connected to an Eclipse TV, to play music through them directly without turning on the TV? Any particular app you have to use for that? Or do you need a Beosound Core maybe?
Thanks!
Current: Beovision Eclipse 65" v1 - Beolab 50 - Beolab 28 - 2 x BS2 (GVA) - 1 x BS1 (GVA) - Beoremote Halo - H9i
Past:
Beovision MX4000 - Beovision 3-32 - Beovision 7-55
Beosound 9000 - Beosound 5 / Beomaster 5
Beolab 6000 - Beolab 8000 - Beolab 5 - Beolab 3 - Beolab 17
Michael:Thanks, and sadly I guess the lack of response to the firmware means that there is an issue with it that can not be discussed? 😬🙈 Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia
Mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4
Mikipedia on Intagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikipedi4/
Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
Mikipidia:Or Geoff isn’t the one writing (all) the software New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beolab 3's, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0 Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4 Old: Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
beolion:Or. This is the final one, the one that solved all problems ;-)
What does your dealer say about the issues you are having?
Michael:Hm yes I’ve had huge issues with the firmware on the lastest edition as well. First I couldn’t control bass and treble with the app or web page but that was resolved with a factory reset. But I still have random really weak bass and sometimes really boomy bass. It seems definitely stronger in narrow mode more often. Weird I think as I would like bass to be there at least as much in a party mode (wide). Most of the times I experience issues with the sound quality I have friends over so I can’t start to change to much but yeah, it seems to be some issues. But more than that, it’s 30 000 euro speakers and the company is pretty quiet about the issues and potential fixes or what might have (perhaps) solved it. I was even refused a manual to install them. I’m happy Geoff talks a lot about the speakers but honestly almost everything I have leery about them is through him as B&O seemingly want them to be like secret magic. It makes me really sad because the speakers are really good but the communication and support really is everything but.
But I still have random really weak bass and sometimes really boomy bass. It seems definitely stronger in narrow mode more often. Weird I think as I would like bass to be there at least as much in a party mode (wide).
Most of the times I experience issues with the sound quality I have friends over so I can’t start to change to much but yeah, it seems to be some issues.
But more than that, it’s 30 000 euro speakers and the company is pretty quiet about the issues and potential fixes or what might have (perhaps) solved it. I was even refused a manual to install them.
I’m happy Geoff talks a lot about the speakers but honestly almost everything I have leery about them is through him as B&O seemingly want them to be like secret magic. It makes me really sad because the speakers are really good but the communication and support really is everything but.
Michael: Thanks, and sadly I guess the lack of response to the firmware means that there is an issue with it that can not be discussed? 😬🙈
Thanks, and sadly I guess the lack of response to the firmware means that there is an issue with it that can not be discussed? 😬🙈
Hi,
There are two answers to this not-really-a-question.
Please remember that I'm not a short-circuit through B&O's customer support. I work on the development end, so things that are happening on the market end are usually things that I don't know much about off-hand. So, typically, I don't not know the answer to questions like this. I'm only here on Beoworld to help with more general questions and topics.
I did ask some people at work yesterday about why you might be having this problem - but I can see that someone else has already given the answer in this thread. If you are certain that you have the latest software update, and you are still experiencing this issue, please let customer support know so that the issue can be logged in their system and tracked appropriately.
Mikipidia:Have you considered it could be the source material? And if that can’t be it, have you tried the same source material at your dealer to see if those act the same? New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beolab 3's, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0 Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4 Old: Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
Geoff Martin:Hi, There are two answers to this not-really-a-question. Please remember that I'm not a short-circuit through B&O's customer support. I work on the development end, so things that are happening on the market end are usually things that I don't know much about off-hand. So, typically, I don't not know the answer to questions like this. I'm only here on Beoworld to help with more general questions and topics. I did ask some people at work yesterday about why you might be having this problem - but I can see that someone else has already given the answer in this thread. If you are certain that you have the latest software update, and you are still experiencing this issue, please let customer support know so that the issue can be logged in their system and tracked appropriately. Cheers -geoff
Michael, I'm sorry to hear about your issues. Perhaps you've already done so, but have you spoken with your dealer about your concerns, rather than customer support? My dealer has been incredibly supportive through the purchase, install and troubleshooting of all my B&O equipment, and has liaised with Denmark on my behalf on some specific issues I was having with regard to my turntables not playing correctly from Core via multiroom to my Harmony TVs. He was able to have them diagnose remotely and send me some beta software to my specific equipment that corrected the issues prior to the official software update. Perhaps the same can be done in this case? Good luck!
Michael:Yes, and it is not. Especially as it differs so much between wide and narrow. And as I said sometimes the sound is even better from the tv speaker itself. Which is odd as the bass can simply wanish. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s a powerlink input issue or something else but an issue is somewhere and probably not in my config itself. I had the same experience before I replaced the old tv with an eclipse. Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)