BS Core with BS9000 and turntable

 

Hi all

Story short: I have a combo of B&O and Sonos, which actually works perfect. I started with Sonos in my home, and slowly integrated B&O.
But I’d like to migrate to B&O entirely (I am only referring to sound at the moment, not video).

 

My present setup consists of a BeoSound 9000 mkIII with BeoLab 11 and a pair of BeoLab 4000 mkII, all wired by PowerLink. On the AUX port of BS900 is an input adapter cable with a Sonos Connect attached in the opposite end.
Since I also have a BeoGram 6500 turntable, this is connected to the RCA input of the Sonos Connect.

If I want to play CDs, this is straight forward.
If I want to stream Internet music, Internet Radio or local music from the NAS, I press A.AUX and controls everything from the Sonos environment, except for sound level (I have set up Sonos with a fixed output level, so I only have to adjust the volume on the BS9000).
If I want to use the turntable, I press A.AUX, and in the Sonos environment I select to play from external source.

 

Now I am thinking of migrating to B&O, by swapping the Sonos Connect with a BeoSound Core, and then connect the speakers to the Core rather than BS9000.

It seems there are two solutions, with different pros and cons.

1:
The easiest and cheapest one is to buy a proper output DIN cable to the AUX port of BS9000, and connect the other end to the RCA line-in of the BS Core. What I understand is that the volume is always fixed on the output of the AUX port, and all audio (or at least CD playback) is also transmitted to the AUX.

But since I also have a BeoGram turntable (with built-in RIAA-amplifier) I am wondering how this can be included in the setup. One way is to also connect it to the RCA input of the BS Core, by using an external selector box (such that I manually choose between the turntable or BS9000). But I prefer a smoother solution!

I was wondering whether the input and output pins on the AUX port of the BS9000 can be used simultaneously, i.e. can I connect the BeoGram turntable to the input of the AUX port, and at the same time send this signal directly to the output pins of the same port, such that the BS Core will play whatever source in coming from the BS9000 (CD or AUX signal)?
Will the BS9000 act like this, i.e. is it only CD (and Radio/N.Music) that is being send to the output of the AUX port, or does this also includes AUX input signals? And can this simply be done by selecting A.AUX?

2:
I was thinking to include a BeoLink Converter NL/ML, such that the BS9000 will be connected via MasterLink to the NL/ML Converter, and the BS Core via NetworkLink. I guess the turntable then can be connected either to the BC Core or the NL/ML Converter, since both have RCA line-in?
Unfortunately, I have not yet gained any experience with NL/ML Converter, but what I understand is, that it creates its own ML-environment, so in theory I end up with three environments (the BS Core as NL, the NL/ML-converter as ML, and the BS9000 as ML). I don’t mind this. But in the end, all this will be installed in the same room, i.e. not yet any distribution of sound to other rooms.
Two advantages with the NL/ML Converter seems to be, that
1) I can distribute sound in both directions. But since the BS9000 will end up with no speakers attached, I will only be able to distribute CDs to the BS Core (and any future Multiroom systems).
2) I can partly control the playback of CDs via the B&O App.

 

When it comes to the cabling, there is no doubt Sounds Heavenly will get a query from me :)

I am looking forward to any feedback from you.

 

BR, BOThom

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Using the NL/ML Converter as a bridge between NL and ML devices is the right way to go....generally speaking.

However, for your current setup it seem a bit like overkill.

I’d consider adding the Core to the BS9000/A.Aux in the same way as of now for the Sonos (volume controlling will be much easier so).

You can connect the Beogram to the Core - that input has line-sense, which means that it turns on the Core, when sensing the input. All you have to do then is to push A.Aux on the Beo4.......and start the Beogram, of course

All sources of the Core can be controlled by the B&O app respectively via Airplay/Casting.
Not really much different from what you do now - apart from the option of adding more NL devices in the house.

Then....if you still want to be able to listen to the CD’s on the new NL devices, you might consider adding the Converter.

In that case you could add speakers to the BS 9000 and have the Core (with added speakers) along with other NL devices all over the house.

Hope this helps a bit.

And by the way...welcome to the Beoworld Forum.

MM

Thank's a lot, Millemissen, for your reply, advise and greetings :)

You are writing:

"I’d consider adding the Core to the BS9000/A.Aux in the same way as of now for the Sonos (volume controlling will be much easier so)."

 

There is something not clear for me - How will volume controlling become easier? I can only see this will happen, if the speakers are connected to the Core?

What I didn't mention in my query was, that I'm also planning to pair an Essence Remote with the Core. But this is not essential - just a nice feature.

 

 

Since you did not mention anything about an Essence Remote, I assumed that you’d have to use the app for volume control in that case.

Of course you can do it that way.....when/if you have the Essence Remote.

Personally I’d prefer a Beoremote - in your case the Beo4 - for volume controlling of a main system/the 9000 and what is pushed in through the A.Aux from the Core.

P.S. As for your first question (A.Aux in/out on the 9000) I can’t say anything - however, I imagine it might be troublesome, if even possible.

MM

If I want to stream Internet music, Internet Radio or local music from the NAS, I press A.AUX and controls everything from the Sonos environment, except for sound level (I have set up Sonos with a fixed output level, so I only have to adjust the volume on the BS9000).

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Millemissen:

I’d consider adding the Core to the BS9000/A.Aux in the same way as of now for the Sonos (volume controlling will be much easier so).

Not the same way though! He needs to connect the PL of the Core to the BS9000 Aux. The Core doesn't have a line-out only a Toslink out.

The BLC solution is a nice one though. ML connect the BS9000 tot the BLC, program the BLC as A.Slave; connect the BG6500 to the Line-in of the BLC; connect the BL's to the Core and use the B&o app to start everything.

Carolpa:

Millemissen:

I’d consider adding the Core to the BS9000/A.Aux in the same way as of now for the Sonos (volume controlling will be much easier so).

Not the same way though! He needs to connect the PL of the Core to the BS9000 Aux. The Core doesn't have a line-out only a Toslink out.

The BLC solution is a nice one though. ML connect the BS9000 tot the BLC, program the BLC as A.Slave; connect the BG6500 to the Line-in of the BLC; connect the BL's to the Core and use the B&o app to start everything.

He’ll need a RJ45/PL to 5 pin Aux cable - and to set the Core to fixed line-out.

Has been discussed before - see:

https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/34938.aspx

MM

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Thank you all for your very valuable inputs!

I think I'll go for the NL/ML solution, so I have better control and integration of my CDs and vinyls.

 

However, since the NL/ML Converter has been discontinued (but still appears in the B&O App), I'm afraid it suddenly may not be functional "tomorrow".

 

I was dropping by my local B&O Store today, and they advised me not to go for the NL/ML Solution (without discussing this any further), but simply using the Core as the master unit, and connect the BS9000 via AUX. Then I end up not being able to integrate the BeoGram completely because the line-in in the Core is occupied by the BS9000.

If I then follow MMs advice (use BS9000 as the master, connect the Core via PL -> AUX, and connect the BeoGram to line-in of the Core), all should be fine. But I am planning to expand the other rooms, meaning that I'd prefer the Core to be the master, expecially when it comes to control of the volume. But in a single set-up like mine, I do see the advantage of controlling the volume with the Beo4 remote.

 

So back to NL/ML Converter worry - do you believe the converter is also functional "tomorrow"? What is your general experience with discontinued products from B&O in this context?

 

BR, BOThom

I have the NL/Ml converter connected to my bs9000 exclusively with no speakers connected to it. All of the sources can be accessed via network link which works really well and reliably over Ethernet. 

BOThom:

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Thank you all for your very valuable inputs!

I think I'll go for the NL/ML solution, so I have better control and integration of my CDs and vinyls.

 

However, since the NL/ML Converter has been discontinued (but still appears in the B&O App), I'm afraid it suddenly may not be functional "tomorrow".

 

I was dropping by my local B&O Store today, and they advised me not to go for the NL/ML Solution (without discussing this any further), but simply using the Core as the master unit, and connect the BS9000 via AUX. Then I end up not being able to integrate the BeoGram completely because the line-in in the Core is occupied by the BS9000.

If I then follow MMs advice (use BS9000 as the master, connect the Core via PL -> AUX, and connect the BeoGram to line-in of the Core), all should be fine. But I am planning to expand the other rooms, meaning that I'd prefer the Core to be the master, expecially when it comes to control of the volume. But in a single set-up like mine, I do see the advantage of controlling the volume with the Beo4 remote.

 

So back to NL/ML Converter worry - do you believe the converter is also functional "tomorrow"? What is your general experience with discontinued products from B&O in this context?

 

BR, BOThom

 

@BOThom

If it is your intension to extend your setup towards more NL Products and you want to use the 9000, the Converter is definitely worth it.

I can’t imagine why that should ‘stop working’.

Dud you know that you can use the Converter with Beolabs connected in a seperate room whilst still using it as the bridge between your 9000 and the NL products?

Have a look here for inspiration:

https://beointegration.com/uploaded/EN-BeoLink-handbook-v1-7.pdf

MM

Your option 1 above should work just fine.  The Aux out always sends whatever the BS9000 is playing.  You will need to set the BS9000 to A.option 0 because it has no speakers connected to it (or get a dummy speaker plug).  If you only have the BS9000 in your ML realm, not not sure what additional capabilities the BLC will provide...

For some reason, if I'm mistaken, you're only out the cost of a 4 plug rca - din cable.  Although, I don't think I am because I sort of remember doing this with my BS1 (cd/radio player), and also see the response from "Russ" in this archived thread:  https://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/12337.aspx

Stan:

our option 1 above should work just fine.  The Aux out always sends whatever the BS9000 is playing.  You will need to set the BS9000 to A.option 0 because it has no speakers connected to it (or get a dummy speaker plug).  If you only have the BS9000 in your ML realm, not not sure what additional capabilities the BLC will provide...

But how should he connect the BG6500 to his system then?

And how about the remote handling? He can't start the BS9000 because in option 0, but manually? 

 

I have 4 BLC to my satisfaction. It is simply the easiest way to combine ML in NL.

He can connect the BG to the aux input of the BS9000.  If option 0 turns off IR (sorry, can't keep option settings straight), then he can keep it in option 1 and get a dummy speaker plug (or I saw someone saying a simple headphone jack (with nothing connected to it) also tricks the BS9000 into thinking it has speakers connected).  To listen to the BG, he selects A.AUX or A.Tape on his BS9000, then the Core will wake up because of line-in sense.  The volume control is through the Core so remote control is perhaps not 100% required depending on how you listen to music.  I mean, you have to put the LP on the BG manually, not so hard to select A.AUX on the BS9000 (or Radio or CD).

I agree that the BLC would work better.  I had one and it worked fine, but since they are discontinued, they are not easy to find in some areas.

 

Stan:

He can connect the BG to the aux input of the BS9000.  If option 0 turns off IR (sorry, can't keep option settings straight), then he can keep it in option 1 and get a dummy speaker plug (or I saw someone saying a simple headphone jack (with nothing connected to it) also tricks the BS9000 into thinking it has speakers connected). 

For my info: so the same AUX on the BS9000 can be used at the same time for input and output?

I believe so.  I'm not 100% certain as I have not personally done this with a BS9000, but (IIRC) this is typically how audio equipment worked back in the days of widespread tape recorder use.  The AUX out (or sometimes labeled "Tape Monitor") sent whatever the amp is playing at line level so one could record it.  It didn't matter if the source was "on board" or remote via AUX in.  The input pins and output pins are separate so it's not exactly the "same AUX".  I'm kind of surprised that Steve from Sounds Heavenly hasn't stepped up as he usually knows these questions because he builds the cables.

 

I’ve decided to go for the more advanced setup. I was lucky to get a second hand NL/ML Converter, and have followed your advice to put it in a.slave mode.

But I’m wondering which A.Option the BS9000 should be selected? From the handbook it seems option 1 or 6 suits best. How does the BS9000 see the NL/ML Converter (e.g. an AV-setup)? I guess the handbook for the BS9000 was published way before NL/ML Converter was released.

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Deleted as this was incorrectly dublicated.

BOThom:

 

I’ve decided to go for the more advanced setup. I was lucky to get a second hand NL/ML Converter, and have followed your advice to put it in a.slave mode.

 

But I’m wondering which A.Option the BS9000 should be selected? From the handbook it seems option 1 or 6 suits best. How does the BS9000 see the NL/ML Converter (e.g. an AV-setup)? I guess the handbook for the BS9000 was published way before NL/ML Converter was released.

 

first blocked and replaced with message below.

now original post freed and deleted by me

 

 

BL4000 connected to Core

BLC setup as ASlave

BS9000 no speakers connected (= option 0)

BS9000 ML connected to BLC

BG connected to BLC line in

Carolpa:

BL4000 connected to Core

BLC setup as ASlave

BS9000 no speakers connected (= option 0)

BS9000 ML connected to BLC

BG connected to BLC line in

I have successfully tried that setup. However, I understand from setting BS9000 in A.Option 0, this also disables the IR transceiver.

The issue is that controlling the BS9000 from the B&O App provides only a very few features (for me I can only switch on/off the BS9000, select source and play/pause/skip track of a CD. I cannot even change CD). I would prefer to use the Beo4 rather than the local buttons on the BS9000.

I have then tried to set it in A.Option 1, and by doing so I can now use my Beo4, even if there are no speakers connected to the BS9000.

Is this an incorrect approach? I am familiar with the DIN speaker sense plugs from SoundsHeavenly, which I might buy one of eventually.

 

Additionally, I attached my BG to the line-in of the BLC. I struggled from the app to select line-in source of the BLC (I could only see the sources from the BS9000). My first attempt was to set-up line-in sense, which basically solved it.
Next, from the App Settings menu of the BLC, I changed "Products controlled by apps" to BLC with speakers (even though there are no speakers connected). Bo doing so I can now select line-in from the BCL (and sources available on the BS Core - but if I pick from a source from the Core, I can obviously not link the Core and BLC in order to play the music on the Core).

 

BOThom:

I have successfully tried that setup. However, I understand from setting BS9000 in A.Option 0, this also disables the IR transceiver.

I thought you had an IR eye connected. 

BOThom:

The issue is that controlling the BS9000 from the B&O App provides only a very few features (for me I can only switch on/off the BS9000, select source and play/pause/skip track of a CD. I cannot even change CD).

Actually I can change the CD playing, but I have to see if I use the Beoliving app or the B&o app. One or both have the option to choose  the number 1 to 6 to play the correspondent CD.

BOThom:

Additionally, I attached my BG to the line-in of the BLC. I struggled from the app to select line-in source of the BLC

You have to make an adjustment in the settings. Go to the setting page of your Core in the app (man icon, products, Core, Configure, Beolink, Link to other products. Make the primiere link the BLC) Then go to: Content, Sources, Local list and check all products the Core should see so also the BS9000 CD and the BLC Line in.

If you start the Core in the app you can choose the Core sources and the BLC sources as local Core sources.

BOThom:

Next, from the App Settings menu of the BLC, I changed "Products controlled by apps" to BLC with speakers (even though there are no speakers connected). Bo doing so I can now select line-in from the BCL (and sources available on the BS Core - but if I pick from a source from the Core, I can obviously not link the Core and BLC in order to play the music on the Core).

Reset this - solved with the remark here above.

BOThom:

I have then tried to set it in A.Option 1, and by doing so I can now use my Beo4, even if there are no speakers connected to the BS9000.

Add an IR eye to the Core and put the BS9000 back in option 0. But note: you must have the right IR settings in the BLC and than all Beo4 command will go through the Core.

BOThom:

I have successfully tried that setup. However, I understand from setting BS9000 in A.Option 0, this also disables the IR transceiver.

Carolpa:

I thought you had an IR eye connected.

Not yet - but now I'd consider to find one. I believe they are being discontinued, but I can see they are still available in the second hand marked.

BOThom:

The issue is that controlling the BS9000 from the B&O App provides only a very few features (for me I can only switch on/off the BS9000, select source and play/pause/skip track of a CD. I cannot even change CD).

Carolpa:

Actually I can change the CD playing, but I have to see if I use the Beoliving app or the B&o app. One or both have the option to choose  the number 1 to 6 to play the correspondent CD.

I use the B&O App, and from here I cannot change CD - only tracks on the present CD being played. I recall from another post on this forum, that the Beoliving App provides the opportunity to also change CD. I find it strange that this is not possible within the B&O App. In order to use the Beoliving app I need a Beolink Gateway/Beoliving Intelligence, and clearly, it's not worth the money just so I can change CDs from the app ;)

BOThom:

Additionally, I attached my BG to the line-in of the BLC. I struggled from the app to select line-in source of the BLC

Carolpa:

You have to make an adjustment in the settings. Go to the setting page of your Core in the app (man icon, products, Core, Configure, Beolink, Link to other products. Make the primiere link the BLC) Then go to: Content, Sources, Local list and check all products the Core should see so also the BS9000 CD and the BLC Line in.

If you start the Core in the app you can choose the Core sources and the BLC sources as local Core sources.

Wow, that worked - thanks a lot! I was not aware of the first steps (Man Icon, etc..). I also have a BeoSound 35, and I have carried out the same steps for that.

BOThom:

Next, from the App Settings menu of the BLC, I changed "Products controlled by apps" to BLC with speakers (even though there are no speakers connected). Bo doing so I can now select line-in from the BCL (and sources available on the BS Core - but if I pick from a source from the Core, I can obviously not link the Core and BLC in order to play the music on the Core).

Carolpa:

Reset this - solved with the remark here above.

Done!

BOThom:

I have then tried to set it in A.Option 1, and by doing so I can now use my Beo4, even if there are no speakers connected to the BS9000.

Carolpa:

Add an IR eye to the Core and put the BS9000 back in option 0. But note: you must have the right IR settings in the BLC and than all Beo4 command will go through the Core.

Since the Beosound 35 have an integrated IR-eye, I have tried your suggestion to that. I guess it all have to be managed from the IR-mapping menu of the BLC. But it seems I can only map towards NL, not ML (unless I have completely misinterpreted the mapping-behavior). I will do some more trial and error.
So, when I press CD on Beo4 and point it towards Beosound 35, it will play from Spotify. And if I press A.Aux, it will play from its own line-in. And if I press Radio, it will play from TuneIn.
If I start the CD-playback from the app, I can afterwards successfully manage the BS9000 with the Beo4 via BS35 (pause, play, skip track and even change CD).

I do have an Essence remote connected via Bluetooth to the Core.
I understand the Essence remote also have some IR integrated? It is possible at all to use the Beo4 to the Essence remote, and then that will replicate via Bluetooth to the Core? Or do I have to find an IR-eye and connect directly to the Core?

BOThom:

I use the B&O App, and from here I cannot change CD - only tracks on the present CD being played.

Correct! Only the Beoliving app has this feature.

BOThom:

I find it strange that this is not possible within the B&O App.

I agree.

BOThom:

Since the Beosound 35 have an integrated IR-eye, I have tried your suggestion to that. I guess it all have to be managed from the IR-mapping menu of the BLC. But it seems I can only map towards NL, not ML

The idea of this setup that everything in NL controlled. So the ML sources are mapped to NL and not the other way around. As long the BS9000 doesn't have speakers connected or there are no more ML devices ML connected (other than the BLC) to the BS9000, this is the right solution.

BOThom:

I also have a BeoSound 35, and I have carried out the same steps for that.

I would do this only for ONE NL device (the CD is then only one source in the complete NL. If you do it twice CD are two, one connected to the BS35 one to the Core. I do not think you will get conflicts but just to keep it simpler). Because of the BS35 IR and your preference to use a Beo4 you could leave it set on the BS35.

In the BLC "Experiende mapped to NL" you check the CD (and if you need the Radio or AUX). Note: you can rename the "Name used on NL" to BS9000 CD and BS9000 Aux, BS9000 Radio (or anything you like)

On the IR mapping page you set the ML IR command. For the CD - "NL product name" = the BLC - "NL source"  = BS9000 CD (if you renamed it to this). Then the BS9000 CD should start when a cd command is given to the BS35.

For other sources choose your settings.

 

My experience learned that I hardly use remotes, beside the Halo for audio and the BR1 for Beovisions, anymore. Almost everything is done by using the B&o app or Beoliving app (mostly the latter)

 

 

Carolpa:

I would do this only for ONE NL device (the CD is then only one source in the complete NL. If you do it twice CD are two, one connected to the BS35 one to the Core. I do not think you will get conflicts but just to keep it simpler). Because of the BS35 IR and your preference to use a Beo4 you could leave it set on the BS35.

I agree, it should be sufficient to just add the BLC on one device (I can still see it from both devices). Actually, even if I don't add the CD and line-in from the BLC in the Local list for each device in the B&O App, I can still pick the sources, both for BS35 and Core. But it works, and I'm very pleased for the feedback!

Carolpa:

In the BLC "Experiende mapped to NL" you check the CD (and if you need the Radio or AUX). Note: you can rename the "Name used on NL" to BS9000 CD and BS9000 Aux, BS9000 Radio (or anything you like)

I have only checked CD, and renamed it to BS9000 CD, which makes sense to me.

Carolpa:

On the IR mapping page you set the ML IR command. For the CD - "NL product name" = the BLC - "NL source"  = BS9000 CD (if you renamed it to this). Then the BS9000 CD should start when a cd command is given to the BS35.

For other sources choose your settings.

This doesn't work for me, unfortunately. Somehow, the BS35 only obey the Beo4 for its own sources. Only when I have chosen to play CD in the B&O App, I can then control the playback with the Beo4 (and the Essence remote for the Core). But it's a very nice advantage that the control goes that far through the various systems.

Carolpa:

My experience learned that I hardly use remotes, beside the Halo for audio and the BR1 for Beovisions, anymore. Almost everything is done by using the B&o app or Beoliving app (mostly the latter)

I do like the Essence remote and the B&O App. But when it comes to volume control, the Beo4 gives instant access. Sometimes the Essence remote drops the connection, and it takes many seconds for it to reconnect. And it takes time to unlock the phone, open the app, and wait a couple of seconds before it has updated the connection to the systems.
I have however considered to buy a Halo.

Another question regarding the line-in volume level on the BLC:
I find the volume to be very low when I play music from the turntable (remind: The BG6500 is connected to the BLC. Not speakers connected). So, I've tried to reach the settings page of the BLC, and under "power link" are two options for adjusting the line-in level. I have tried to adjust each one, but I don’t hear any significant results in the volume. My question is then: Is the default line-in volume only applicable when BeoLab speakers are connected directly to the BLC?