ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello everyone
I have a BeoMaster 4500 (software version 2.1) and a BeoLab 3500 (version MK.II). Which remote should I use to take advantage of their full potential (if that's possible)? Beo4 or Beolink 5000?
I currently have the Beolink 1000 but it seems that every time I need to operate the BM4500, the BL3500 switches off (that could be a question for a different forum but I thought I'd mention it here for a fuller disclosure of my situation). For example, when I try to adjust the volume or change the radio station the BL3500 will switch off.
As background information, my BM4500 and BL3500 are located in the same room (connection is from power link to power link, even though I am not sure this is the best way), while I have also connected my BL4500 to the other power link socket, and the Beovox RL 45 connected to the 4-pin DIN sockets (all of these in the same room).
Thank you
Hi chrmav, welcome!
To your original question: both the BeoMaster and the BeoLab will work with BeoLink 1000, Beo4 and BeoLink 5000 for daily use. Only the BeoLink 5000 will be giving you two-way operation with the BeoMaster, but only if it is equipped with the two-way module (this is not standard).
As far as I know you cannot drive a BeoLab 3500 mkII with a PowerLink cable as such. The BeoMaster is of the Master Control Link (MCL) era, and it should be connected from the 7-pin AUX/TV socket to the BeoLab 3500 through a 1611 converter by MasterLink. This will also free up your PowerLink socket. Ask Steve @ SoundsHeavenly and he will get you the right cables.
Then, with the right option settings of both the BeoMaster (A option 1) and the BeoLab (L-option 4), you will be able to enjoy the BeoLab in the right way (for example separately in the kitchen). See also https://support.bang-olufsen.com/hc/en-us/articles/360041571032-Beolab-3500
For silver/gold members many more manuals can be found on the BeoWorld site. I trust you will find your way and figure out how to get all working as B&O intended. I know it is a bit of puzzle, but very rewarding!
Johan
Thank you for the welcoming, Johan! Great tip regarding the two-way module for the BL5000. Can I also use the BL5000 to programme the BL3500 to option 4 as suggested below? Because the manual suggests to use the Beo4 (maybe because it is a later version compared to the BL5000).
That's what I thought as well. But when I connected BM4500 to BL3500 using power link to power link, the BL3500 worked (even the clock came on, even though I couldn't adjust the time). I see, so a 1611 converter is required I guess to utilize all functions in the products. Do I have to connect it to the AUX/TV socket, as you suggested? At the moment, I am running the sound of my non-B&O TV through there.
Regarding the 1611 converter. Is it reasonable to assume a 7-pin DIN from the BM4500 to a 7-pin DIN in the converter and then a ML cable from the converter to the BL3500?
Thanks
Hi,
I checked the BeoLink 5000 manual, but could not find instructions how to change option settings there. I guess you can't.
The optional two-way communication refers to the BM4500. It depends if a module is fitted. The BeoLink 5000 is always able to work in two way mode (though you must tell it what mode to be in).
AUX/TV is the right socket. A fully wired PowerLink Mk2 cable will work when you snap off the central pin. Be aware here, some (thin) PL cables do have all the pins, but do not have all the internal wires.
And correct: 7-pin from AUX/TV on the Beomaster to AUDIO AUX LINK on the 1611, then MasterLink from 1611 to BeoLab 3500.
Good luck, Johan
Correction - you can use the BeoLink 5000 to set the options of the BeoLab 3500: https://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/36840/305357.aspx :-)
Johan: The optional two-way communication refers to the BM4500. It depends if a module is fitted.
Hi Johan
I found another post that says both Tape 2 or AUX can be used (user says Tape 2/AUX though) https://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/9148.aspx. I'll try both I guess and see how it goes.
Yes, will go for the PL Mk2 and snap the central pin.
lawrencejmcook: If the Beomaster has been upgraded there should be be small white sticker on the back saying “software 2.x” and a little icon with arrows going in opposite directions.The OP says that their BM has software 2.1 so provided it was not subsequently removed (e.g. to operate better with later ML devices), it should work with a 2-way remote.
If the Beomaster has been upgraded there should be be small white sticker on the back saying “software 2.x” and a little icon with arrows going in opposite directions.The OP says that their BM has software 2.1 so provided it was not subsequently removed (e.g. to operate better with later ML devices), it should work with a 2-way remote.
Hi Lawrence
Yes, it is 2.1 with the arrows icon and I hope that this has not been tempered with.
The BM4500 manual suggests the use of the remote BL1000 or BL5000, but will see if it works well with the BeoLab 3500 attached to it.
chrmav:Hi LawrenceYes, it is 2.1 with the arrows icon and I hope that this has not been tempered with. The BM4500 manual suggests the use of the remote BL1000 or BL5000, but will see if it works well with the BeoLab 3500 attached to it.Thank you
Johan: AUX/TV is the right socket. A fully wired PowerLink Mk2 cable will work when you snap off the central pin. Be aware here, some (thin) PL cables do have all the pins, but do not have all the internal wires. And correct: 7-pin from AUX/TV on the Beomaster to AUDIO AUX LINK on the 1611, then MasterLink from 1611 to BeoLab 3500.
So, I have used a Datalink cable with 7 pin plugs (from SoundsHeavenly) connecting my BM4500 (using AUX/TV) with the 1611 (to the AUDIO AUX LINK) and then using a ML cable to connect to the BL3500 (Mk II). While both systems (BM4500 and BL3500) are on standby, I have used SOUND 1 STORE in the BM4500 and LINK 4 STORE in the BL3500 (using Beolink 1000) or alternatively set the L.OPT to 4 (using Beo4). So, unless the datalink cable is not the appropriate one (see my note below) and/or the 1611 converter is broken and /or the ML cable is broken, then the setup seems to be the appropriate one for these products.
I've then tried to operate the BL3500 through my BM4500 using mainly two options.
Option 1. I press RADIO and turn on the BM4500. Based on the BL3500 user guide, if I then press LIST LINK RADIO (or any other source instead, such as CD), the sound should be reproduced through the BL3500. However, it doesn't happen. BL3500 remains on standby mode.
Option 2. I press MENU 0 4 PLAY on the BL1000 and turn on the BL3500 (BTW when I turn it on it says PL SEL. in case this provides a hint as to what could be going on here). I then press LINK RADIO to see whether this reproduces the sound through the BL3500, but as soon as I press RADIO the BL3500 switches off. In fact, the BL3500 switches off with almost any button I press, irrespective of whether I am operating the BL1000 or Beo4.
Any ideas? I wasn't expecting it to be so complicated.
NOTE: The reason I used the Datalink cable instead of snapping the central pin on the power link cable is that Steve from Soundsheavenly told me that his power link cables are fully wired (i.e., all 8 pins correspond to a wire). Whereas, correct me if I am wrong, the B&O power link cables (Mk II, cable type white 6250031) don't have wires for pins 1 (nine o'clock)) and 8 (central). In any case, since I had a power link Mk II cable (from Steve) I snapped the middle pin and used that instead of the Datalink cable. Nothing changed.
Seems to be a tough cookie your BL3500! You write that the BL3500 says 'PL SEL'. Check this thread please. Maybe you can set it in 'ML SEL' mode using the instructions in this thread? https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/9111.aspx
Thanks, Johan. I went through it. Few follow up questions.
First, in order to get the ML SEL. as suggested, one needs to press MENU MENU 0 3 PLAY (or GO with Beo4). However, after doing this, when I try Option 1 or Option 2 - as per my post above - the same things happen as before. BL3500 either remains off (Option 1) or switches off (Option 2) when I press almost any button on my remote controls.
Second, one user in the suggested thread said to press STORE after the ML SEL. appears on the display. So, I press STORE while ML SEL. is on display (using the BL 1000), but once again the BL3500 switches off without any clear or visible indication that somehow the STORE function has actually done something. Maybe nothing is meant to happen or maybe something is meant to happen but without any visible indication. Not sure.
Third, in the thread suggested, one of the many useful things the users mention is the fact that "the red light needs to flash when selecting these options" referring to the L.OPT 6 while using Beo4 to setup their BL3500 (L.OPT 4 in my case, since BL3500 is in the same room as my BL4500). However, when I click 4 after L.OPT appears on my Beo4, the screen on the Beo4 changes to the source that it has previously been (for example, RADIO or CD) while there is no red light flashing anywhere on the BL3500. So, I am not sure whether the BL3500 has stored option 4. Is there a way to verify which option is stored on the BL3500? Or at least to make sure that L.OPT 4 is being activated when pressing 4 on the Beo4?
Fourth, I also tried setting up the BL3500 independently (i.e., with the BM4500 unplugged, so there can be no IR communication between the remote control and the BM4500) when doing the L.OPT 4 or the ML SEL., but still nothing.
What a headscratcher! Any more ideas?
Headscratcher indeed! I am not sure i f I can help out any further.
The only thing I can add is that the option setting of the BeoMaster needs to be done with the device in standby, and that the standby LED is not really flashing, but goes off for a second only to confirm it accepted the setting.
My BeoLab 3500 (also in stdby) shows a full OPTION 6 in the display when I set it to that option.
Correction - My BeoMaster 4500 shows OP 0 in the display when setting (in my case) to A option 0.
I did play around a bit with my Beo4 (SAT type) and my BeoLab 3500 (which I think is an older type than yours).
My BeoLab 3500 does not react to the MENU MENU 0 X commands. However, I can select MasterLink with MENU 0, 3, the display says ML SEL. When I then push MENU, 0, 2 the display says ML OK.
Maybe this helps.
Johan: My BeoLab 3500 (also in stdby) shows a full OPTION 6 in the display when I set it to that option.
When I do L.OPT 4, mine remains in standby and shows nothing.
Johan: My BeoLab 3500 does not react to the MENU MENU 0 X commands. However, I can select MasterLink with MENU 0, 3, the display says ML SEL. When I then push MENU, 0, 2 the display says ML OK.
As soon as I press any button after the ML SEL. is displayed, the BL3500 turns off :-(.. So perhaps there could be a way to perform this action (i.e., ML OK) without the BL3500 switching off.
Johan: Correction - My BeoMaster 4500 shows OP 0 in the display when setting (in my case) to A option 0.
Yes, I have my BM4500 on standby and when I press SOUND 1 STORE I can see OP1 on its screen.
Thank you for your suggestions, Johan. I am starting to think that perhaps there is something wrong with the the ML cable or the 1611 converter. But I can't understand why the BL3500 switches off every time I press any button. Unless the BL3500 is problematic.
Hi again. OK, BM4500 is set to A Option 1. That is good.
For the L-option setting of the 3500: did you try another option? Like 6? Just to see the reaction of it. I find it weird that this basic operation fails. I would suggest that this needs to be clarified first. The manual suggests to do so with all devices in standby.
Further I read in the BL3500 service manual that with (MENU) MENU 0 2 GO the display can say ML OK (like I see), or give a list of ERROR codes related to MasterLink.I think you have to try this with both devices in standby.
chrmav:Thank you for your suggestions, Johan. I am starting to think that perhaps there is something wrong with the the ML cable or the 1611 converter. But I can't understand why the BL3500 switches off every time I press any button. Unless the BL3500 is problematic.
Have you tried disconnecting the BM4500 from the 1611 converter and seeing if you can set the L.OPT when the BL3500 is used as a stand alone? Perhaps then try another (non-B&O) source into the 1611's aux socket.
One other question: Are you totally sure that your converter is a 1611 (type 1161166), and not a 1610 or 1614? They look very similar.
Johan: For the L-option setting of the 3500: did you try another option? Like 6? Just to see the reaction of it. I find it weird that this basic operation fails. I would suggest that this needs to be clarified first. The manual suggests to do so with all devices in standby.
I tried 6 as well, but still the same issue. No reaction whatsoever on the BL3500 display.
Johan: Further I read in the BL3500 service manual that with (MENU) MENU 0 2 GO the display can say ML OK (like I see), or give a list of ERROR codes related to MasterLink. I think you have to try this with both devices in standby.
Further I read in the BL3500 service manual that with (MENU) MENU 0 2 GO the display can say ML OK (like I see), or give a list of ERROR codes related to MasterLink. I think you have to try this with both devices in standby.
Pressing the following button sequences in the Beo4, I get their respective indications in the BL3500 display. It is the same with or without the BM4500 being on standby.
MENU MENU 0 0 GO - SW: 3.1
MENU MENU 0 1 GO - SPK. CAL.
MENU MENU 0 2 GO - NO ML
MENU MENU 0 3 GO - ML SEL.
MENU MENU 0 4 GO - PL SEL. (does a funny static-like noise when this is selected; not constant, but in a roughly 1 sec repeated beat)
MENU MENU 0 9 GO - ML OK
So, options 0, 4, and 9 may provide some insight. Are these options supposed to be selected after they've been typed and appeared in the dispaly (for example, by pressing again GO)? Or do they just become active by making them appear in the display (so when GO is pressed once)? I am only asking because as soon as I press almost any button after any of these messages have appeared in the display (including GO for a second time), the BL3500 switches off (as previously mentioned).
Guy: Have you tried disconnecting the BM4500 from the 1611 converter and seeing if you can set the L.OPT when the BL3500 is used as a stand alone? Perhaps then try another (non-B&O) source into the 1611's aux socket. One other question: Are you totally sure that your converter is a 1611 (type 1161166), and not a 1610 or 1614? They look very similar.
a) I tried to set L.OPT 4 as a stand alone, but it did not work (i.e., no indication on the display).
b) I tried to connect my iPad using a 5-pin cable (Steve's recommended connection) to the AUDIO AUX LINK of the 1611 but it did not work (tried all options as above, i.e., by finally pressing 3, 4, or 9).I then connected the 5-pin cable to the Power Link socket of the 1611 and tried all options as previously, but nothing either. Keep in mind that the two missing pins on Steve's 5-pin cable are for remote purposes, which I am not using in this case anyway.
However, when I connected my iPad directly to the BL3500 (in the PL socket, not the ML one, which I had removed for this test) using the 5-pin cable (so without running it via the 1611) then the BL3500 was working (using option 4, i.e., PL SEL.), suggesting that at least the speakers on the BL3500 are working (because it is still troubling that the BL3500 switches off when pressing almost any button in the remote). I then performed another test to verify whether the 5-pin cable is an appropriate cable to assess the functionality of the 1611 or ML cable. I connected my iPad directly to the AUX/TV socket of the BM4500 using the 5-pin cable and my BL4500 speakers - which are connected to the BM4500 - worked as well (which was not surprising since this is the intended purpose of this cable).
So, if the 5-pin cable works in the BM4500 AUX/TV socket, but it does not work when plugged in the AUDIO AUX LINK of the 1611 (which is in turn connected to the BL3500 using ML), does this mean that there is definitely something wrong with the 1611 or the ML cable? Unless there is some sort of incompatibility between the BL3500's SW 3.1 and 1611's SW 1.3?
c) Yes, I have the 1161166 converter using SW 1.3.
chrmav:does this mean that there is definitely something wrong with the 1611 or the ML cable?
These are the things that I would be checking next - both relatively easy/cheap to replace. Also check the insides of the ML connectors on both 1611 and BL3500 in case there is dirt or damaged connectors.
A couple of longshots from entering your setup into the Product Configuration guide, which actually refers to LCS 9000 (early version of BL3500).
Firstly, there is a note about ML setup - it actually refers to SW1.0 but may also apply to later SW. Basically it states that after switching the BL3500 to ML mode (ML on) and then pressing STORE, you should then disconnect and reconnect the mains power before setting LINK option 6.
The second item of interest is that it states: If LCS has a serial number lower than 10552474, pins 4 and 12 must be short circuited in the ML socket.
But it would be strange it the ML socket modification had not been made at the same time as the SW was upgraded (if indeed your 3500 is a corresponding serial number).
Hi chrmav, good to see that the BL3500 shows more and more signs of life!
I also tried MENU 0 9 GO on mine and found 'ML ON' (you wrote ML OK). I can switch to ML OFF there with the cursor buttons JFYI.
When you check this BeoTech info: https://www.beoworld.org/beotech/mclconn5.htm it clearly refers to a 7 pin connection needed between the 1611 and the BM4500, the two extra pins are for the data signals. But I think you already wrote that you use a fully wired PowerLink Mk2 8pin cable (with the central pin snapped off) between BM4500 and 1611 right? This is exactly how I connected my BM4500 with my 1611. Don't expect it to work with a 5 pin cable.
The NO ML indication (at MENU MENU 0 2 GO) means 'MasterLink is not connected' according the service manual.
Guy: These are the things that I would be checking next - both relatively easy/cheap to replace. Also check the insides of the ML connectors on both 1611 and BL3500 in case there is dirt or damaged connectors.
I've checked. There is no obvious damage or dirt on the connectors (or their plugs).
Guy: Firstly, there is a note about ML setup - it actually refers to SW1.0 but may also apply to later SW. Basically it states that after switching the BL3500 to ML mode (ML on) and then pressing STORE, you should then disconnect and reconnect the mains power before setting LINK option 6. The second item of interest is that it states: If LCS has a serial number lower than 10552474, pins 4 and 12 must be short circuited in the ML socket.
I've done ML ON and then hit STORE. Disconnected the mains, reconnected, and hit L.OPT 4. Nothing happened when I then pressed LINK RADIO (or CD) with and without the BM4500 switched on.
SN of BL3500 is over 20,000,000 and 1611's is over 94,000,000.
Guy: I also tried MENU 0 9 GO on mine and found 'ML ON' (you wrote ML OK). I can switch to ML OFF there with the cursor buttons JFYI. When you check this BeoTech info: https://www.beoworld.org/beotech/mclconn5.htm it clearly refers to a 7 pin connection needed between the 1611 and the BM4500, the two extra pins are for the data signals. But I think you already wrote that you use a fully wired PowerLink Mk2 8pin cable (with the central pin snapped off) between BM4500 and 1611 right? This is exactly how I connected my BM4500 with my 1611. Don't expect it to work with a 5 pin cable. The NO ML indication (at MENU MENU 0 2 GO) means 'MasterLink is not connected' according the service manual.
a) Yes, you are right. it says ML ON (not ML OK). I can also switch it ON or OFF based on the cursors, as you suggested. It was set (by default) to ML ON. Just for future reference, when I press STORE there is no visible indication in the BL3500 display even though it stores the command. I double checked this by alternating between the ML ON and OFF and by pressing or not the STORE button.
b) Yes, the Datalink cable I bought from Steve has the same 7-pin connection as in the one in the BeoTech info. Steve has confirmed. This is the one I have been using for my tests (alternated this with the 5-pin mainly to see whether my AUX/TV socket worked and also that my BL3500 speakers worked when connected to the power link socket).
c) Good point. So, yes, when I press MENU MENU 0 2 GO it says NO ML. Does this means that BL3500 does not recognize the MasterLink cable (even though it is plugged in)? If that's the case then it is most likely a faulty ML cable (or a 1611 converter)?
Yes, assuming the 1611 is powered, it could be the ML cable or the 1611. A pity that there is no indicator LED on the 1611 that could at least tell you something of a status. One of the coming days I will disconnect my 3500 from ML and will see if I still can change L-opt settings then.
Hello guys
I have good news! I ordered a new 1611 converter and the BL3500 now works. It was a case of a malfunctioning converter. Sorry for the tread but at least I learned a lot of new things regarding this issue and hopefully this thread will help other users if they are facing similar problems.
For completeness, when I press L.OPT 4, I can now see OPTION 4 on the BL3500 display.
Thank you and and I will come back with more queries I am sure!
Great news - thanks for letting us know, and enjoy your fully working system!
Good news! Glad you did not give up / told you it takes a bit of effort but, when it works, it's very rewarding.
I learned about my BL3500 also haha.
Happy listening!